The biggest mystery....

[Livvie]

...to me is why we let Teddy go.

Surely a two year contract wasn't too much to ask for?

If Fergie wanted to play 4-5-1, we already had the personnel to do it.

Regardless of his talents, we didn't need Veron.

And if we're talking Europe - well when we played Bayern Munich Teddy was our leading scorer, and was left on the bench. The guy was in form and was left out. Never understood it then, and still don't.

We should have strengthened the squad that walked it in 2000/2001, not taken from it.

 

[arnie sidebottom]

I think Teddy had personal / family reasons for wanting a move back to London and although we could have made staying worth his while (for a fraction of some of the decisions made since), I wonder whether his heart would have been in it.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by arnie sidebottom:
<strong>I think Teddy had personal / family reasons for wanting a move back to London and although we could have made staying worth his while (for a fraction of some of the decisions made since), I wonder whether his heart would have been in it.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Teddy was pissed off - rightly so - about being left on the bench against Bayern Munich. I think that had a lot to do with it. If you can't get in the team as the leading goal-scorer it must be disheartening.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by great_se7en:
<strong>I agree. Sometimes I wonder about Fergie's staunch defence of our players, particularly Veron, even though he's had over a year to demonstrate some sort of consistency and hasn't produced what I'd call good value for money.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

We all know about what Fergie's achieved and we're all grateful for it.

But over the years he has shown favouritism to certain players regardless of whether they deserve it or not. At the expense of players who deserved better.

You can go back 10 years and pick out instances.

 

[Neil Thomson]

If Chelsea could keep Zola for as long as they have, we should have been prepared to give Teddy a 2 year contract.

 

[giggzy]

teddy wouldn't have made much difference... we need a player with good pace and movement, and great dribbling skills.. someone like ronaldhino.


teddy was too slow, lacked any movement, the only thing he had was vision...and good passing skills.


we need a player that can take markers away in the box and create space... something that teddy couldn't even do in his dreams.

 

[giggzy]

so... even if we had teddy, we'd still pass the ball around the box and lack ideas, against defensive team.

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>so... even if we had teddy, we'd still pass the ball around the box and lack ideas, against defensive team.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed - loved seeing Teddy in a red shirt, but I reckon we'd had the best out of him.

 

[corelive]

And he will be back at OT next week and i for one will applaud him when he comes on the pitch

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>so... even if we had teddy, we'd still pass the ball around the box and lack ideas, against defensive team.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, he was rubbish. Never scored. Couldn't head. Couldn't break down defences. What did Teddy ever do for us?

 

[arnie sidebottom]

We should have given Teddy a 50 year contract and played him and Ole together until retirement.

Livvie would then be a happy and fulfilled woman...

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Originally posted by corelive:
<strong>And he will be back at OT next week and i for one will applaud him when he comes on the pitch </strong><hr></blockquote>

And I hope everyone does - we owe him.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
What did Teddy ever do for us? </strong><hr></blockquote>

never said he did jack for us...

he was a good player, very intelligent...and he won the fans over near the end of his career at OT... however, i don't think(infact iam certain) he's the type that would cause mayhem against a packed defence... remeber, thats where our problems lie.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

never said he did jack for us...

he was a good player, very intelligent...and he won the fans over near the end of his career at OT... however, i don't think(infact iam certain) he's the type that would cause mayhem against a packed defence... remeber, thats where our problems lie.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not on his own. The rest had been said already, we need to counter attack more, with pace, down the wings, to the byline, cross it in, for Teddy to head it into the back of the net - it used to work.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Not on his own. The rest had been said already, we need to counter attack more, with pace, down the wings, to the byline, cross it in, for Teddy to head it into the back of the net - it used to work.</strong><hr></blockquote>

how can you counter teams that don't attack?


we've scored plenty of goals away from home.. yet we;ve struggled to breakdown the liverpool style of play at OT..


he wouldn't make an once of difference, to our current problems of scoring against packed defences... kinell, i wish we bought duff, cisse or ronaldhino...


actually, henry would be perfect.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by arnie sidebottom:
<strong>We should have given Teddy a 50 year contract and played him and Ole together until retirement.

Livvie would then be a happy and fulfilled woman... </strong><hr></blockquote>


Only if they brought back Sparky and Kanchelskis too.

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Interesting that this all comes down to a need to stretch teams more. Everything coming down the middle is far easier to defend against.

So I don't think selling Teddy was the problem, because I can't see how he would have been effective in the current set-up. Obviously, I'd have loved him as a bench option yesterday, but Teddy wouldn't have hung around for a further stretch on the bench.

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>
Only if they brought back Sparky and Kanchelskis too.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> Your wish is my command.

Now if someone could dry out Norman Whiteside and give him a decent set of limbs we could all be happy and fulfilled !

 

[giggzy]

feck all them.


i'd trade in our current side for bryan Robson.....

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Hmmm...Keane, Whiteside, Robson in midfield.

Lets see Bowyer and Liverlips Smith feck with that lot.

Perhaps plc should invest in some genetic engineering ?

 

[giggzy]

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />


robbo and keane in the middle.. not bad eh?

 

[blythy]

Originally posted by arnie sidebottom:
<strong>

Agreed - loved seeing Teddy in a red shirt, but I reckon we'd had the best out of him.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Likewise.

No offence to Livvie, but it's easy to say we'd have been better off with him now, but I think he'd given all he could to MU.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by blythy:
<strong>

Likewise.

No offence to Livvie, but it's easy to say we'd have been better off with him now, but I think he'd given all he could to MU.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You may be right.

But he would still have been an option we don't have at the moment.

It's all conjecture anyway. Like talk of players like Ronaldo - we've spent big and have deteriorated.

I'd prefer to have a good team than 11 brilliant individuals.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

how can you counter teams that don't attack?


we've scored plenty of goals away from home.. yet we;ve struggled to breakdown the liverpool style of play at OT..


he wouldn't make an once of difference, to our current problems of scoring against packed defences... kinell, i wish we bought duff, cisse or ronaldhino...


actually, henry would be perfect. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I think we are to blame for their packed defences. Bear with me on this. We like to camp around their box, and pass around it, keeping the pressure on - they can do little else but pack their defence in such a situation. We also try to keep a very high percentage of possession, so we have the ball for long periods of time thus reducing the number of times a break is possible in a game. A direct style of play does lose possession a lot, and creates an end to end game. What we could do is once they've packed their defence, retreat, pass the ball around the back very deep right in our own half, and then suddenly change the pace and one touch pass it to the midfield, and run with the ball at their defenders. We have to learn to draw them out - the Brazilians play a possession game and this is how they've coped with this problem.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
I think we are to blame for their packed defences. Bear with me on this. We like to camp around their box, and pass around it, keeping the pressure on - they can do little else but pack their defence in such a situation. We also try to keep a very high percentage of possession, so we have the ball for long periods of time thus reducing the number of times a break is possible in a game. A direct style of play does lose possession a lot, and creates an end to end game. What we could do is once they've packed their defence, retreat, pass the ball around the back very deep right in our own half, and then suddenly change the pace and one touch pass it to the midfield, and run with the ball at their defenders. We have to learn to draw them out - the Brazilians play a possession game and this is how they've coped with this problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>

ok..


well why did we struggle to score against teams like Bayern and Dortmund in the past?? the truth is we've always had problems against this type of oppostion... the only difference, is, that most teams play ultra cautious at OT, now.. In the past the majority of sides came to old trafford with the attitude, of 'we'll try to keep the score down'.. i also felt most teams lost the game in the tunnel ala tyson's opponents in his heyday.. but now, they come with a very definate plan..and don't seem to bottle the occasion.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

ok..


well why did we struggle to score against teams like Bayern and Dortmund in the past?? the truth is we've always had problems against this type of oppostion... the only difference, is, that most teams play ultra cautious at OT, now.. In the past most sides came to old trafford with the attitude, of 'we'll try to keep the score down'.. i also felt most teams lost the game in the tunnel ala tyson's opponents in his heyday.. but now, they come with a very definate plan..and don't seem to bottle the occasion.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bayern had great full backs who could nullify Giggs and Beckham, as well as being a top class team and exceptionally organised. But to not be able to break down Boro and Bolton, thats a worry. I think teams have always been cautious and OT, and as you say, beaten before they even get on to the pitch. But they had reason to be afraid, we had the best defence in the league, played with great pace, had wizards like Cantona, or Yorke, Giggzy in his prime and Scholes. We don't have a creative goal scoring forward now and Alex has changed our system and style of play to a more defensive formation suited for getting a point away from home in Europe.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Bayern had great full backs who could nullify Giggs and Beckham, as well as being a top class team and exceptionally organised. But to not be able to break down Boro and Bolton, thats a worry. I think teams have always been cautious and OT, and as you say, beaten before they even get on to the pitch. But they had reason to be afraid, we had the best defence in the league, played with great pace, had wizards like Cantona, or Yorke, Giggzy in his prime and Scholes. We don't have a creative goal scoring forward now and Alex has changed our system and style of play to a more defensive formation suited for getting a point away from home in Europe.</strong><hr></blockquote>


i think its important to go back to playing wingers at OT.. we need to stretch the oppostion.. something we are not doing with our current formation... th narrow style of play works excellently away from home, but its not effective at OT againts cautious teams.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


i think its important to go back to playing wingers at OT.. we need to stretch the oppostion.. something we are not doing with our current formation... th narrow style of play works excellently away from home, but its not effective at OT againts cautious teams.</strong><hr></blockquote>
United to me means Wing Wizards - I hate to see us not utilising world class players like Giggs and Beckham properly.

 

[Livvie]

Unfortunately, with Beckham determined to be a centre forward, and with Gigg being used in that role, they will get too used to being used as inside forwards, and their natural talent will suffer.

It's OK having a different system for Europe - but we shouldn't abandon the one that has worked for us in the past.

 

[Jopub the Gooner]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>teddy wouldn't have made much difference... we need a player with good pace and movement, and great dribbling skills.. someone like ronaldhino.


teddy was too slow, lacked any movement, the only thing he had was vision...and good passing skills.


we need a player that can take markers away in the box and create space... something that teddy couldn't even do in his dreams.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sheesh , I have to laugh

You have just named ALL the things you are now lacking !

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Clearly you are correct - Sherringham - who needs him ?.....Yeah he was rubbish anyway