The Americas Draft, QF3: onenil vs Boris

Considering players at their peak, who will win the match?

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Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
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Oct 19, 2012
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NOTE: Voters are encouraged to read the managers' write-ups and arguments before voting. Votes cannot be changed once submitted.

TEAM ONENIL

Instead of copy and pasting info from my previous match, I will include links. My comments include updates and changes to the initial set-up and some further thoughts. Here are my first match tactics and player profiles:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-americas-draft-r1-onenil-vs-raees-7-5.421751/


Here is a brief summary of el Ballet Azul for Universidad de Chile where three of my players made their reputations:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-americas-draft.420993/page-37#post-19785003


“I am absolutely enchanted - in all senses of the word - by passion. It is what guides us through the unknown like an experienced commander; angry seas never scare us when we face them with the madness of love” - Doutor Socrates


Central Midfield Creativity added to Stability

Cerezo enters my enter midfield. This strengthens my team dynamics by a lot offering much more flow between defense and attack and removing the reliance on fullbacks for numbers for certain attacking sequences. Here are two years he won Placar’s Bola de Ouro.


1977

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1980

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The interesting aspect is he won the top award in two different positional categories. In 1977 Cerezo won as Volante which best translates as a deep lying playmaker type of holding midfielder. In 1980 he won as the more offense oriented centre midfield role of meia-armador. For Tele Santana he was always most effective as a volante breaking up plays then initiating attacking sequences with his passing vision. Cerezo has classic volante qualities that will be used in this lineup to full potential.With Cerezo this combination of players functions much more fluidly without sacrificing defensive strength.


Another interesting aspect of those two years of Placar awards looking at the positions of ponta de lanca and centrovante. Some of the comments I see on google and other forums seems a bit off base.


The ponta de lanca is the classic Brazilian No.10 who leads the attack. The centrovante is the no. 9 but in the classic 70s-early80s Brazilian systems the no.9 was really a “False 9” in modern terminology, not a lone attacking striker like Van Basten. The Brazilian tactical systems of the 70s and 80s use a ‘false 9’ for pulling the opposing CBs out of position to create space for the No.10 to move into. Even though the no.9 starts further up, the no.10 is really the spearhead of the attack (ponta de lanca). This isn’t a new tactical invention of Guardiola’s Barca as I have seen some people think. These old Brazilian tactics naturally use a ‘false 9’ with a ponta de lanca 10.


One interesting thing bit of trivia was the Brazilian actress Sonia Braga being interviewed by Placar magazine in 1979. She named Socrates as one of her favorites. When asked why she mentioned how his manipulation of space unbalances defenses. This is interesting because it’s not a professional tactical analyst or former player but a regular fan in Brazil that notices this quality. Socrates will still be the one dictating the pace. He will dropping back to ensure the opposition does not achieve numerical superiority. Socrates is natural at understanding the positional game on the pitch.


Socrates also said that playing with Zico was like making dinner where he just has to prepare the food like a sous chef and Zico will ensure it’s served up impeccably. This metaphor captures how well these two complemented each other, becoming greater together. The center route of Domingos-Cerezo-Socrates-Zico ensures an ever present central avenue of build to go along with the full backs movement and even occasional long balls into Doutor.


Added Grit and Graft

Paulo Montero adds a missing element to the Brazil defense that most of the winning Italian sides among others always include. Hard, wind up men. He can throw Spencer off his usual game. With my fullbacks more focused on preventing the timely cross onto Spencer’s magic head, Montero’s marking, aerial ability, and wind-up is tasked with getting into Spencer’s head and preventing him from reaching his potential.


Cerezo’s tactical awareness and passing range allows the Seven Lungs Marcos to smother Schiaffino without exposing the defense. With the full backs conscious of crosses and Marcos tasked with not allowing Schiaffino to have any space to operate in our half, Cerezo can master the space in front of the defense. The Divine Master, Domingos Da Guia watches, a master strategist and positioning himself to contain any emergencies or unexpected danger.

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The defence is well balanced with a dominant centre back in Ruggeri and a sweeper who was considered world class at his peak in Melendez. The full backs are also solid, with Jorginho providing a lot of support in attack with his high levels of stamina. Rossi and Andrade will have to be on their game against the likes of Zico and Socrates but their defensive prowess is matched by their own abilities on the ball, and will be capable of bridging the gap between defence and attack. My wingers will look to stretch the play and attack full backs at every opportunity to get balls into the box for Spencer to attack, which will hopefully create the space inside for Schiaffino to work his magic.

Emerson Leao is one of the most underrated goalkeepers ever. He was famous for his superb reflexes save. His talent was performed since early career when he was selected as a reserved goalkeeper in the 1970 World Cup. Afterwards, he was almost one of the most world cup tournaments to play with five but he didn’t have a good relationship with Tele Santana by the time world cup 1982 was going to compete. But still, His great performance in world cup 1974 and 1978 was good enough for a documentary video produced by FIFA “FIFA Fever” rated him as the third-most impressive defensive player of all-time. Leao kept 8 clean sheets from 14 games in 2 World Cup final tournaments.

Jorginho was the starting right back when Brazil won the world cup in 1994. He was an excellent attacking full back who had the stamina and work rate to get up and down the pitch.

Julio Melendez – Was a sweeper style centre back, broadly similar to Rio Ferdinand in that he was a great reader of the game and rarely had to use strength or foul to stop the opposition. He captained Boca to two league titles in 1969 and 1970 and partnered Chumpitaz at centre back when Peru won the Copa in 1975.

Oscar Ruggeri - Named South American footballer of the year in 1991, was an extemely solid defender with great marking and heading skills.

Luis - been one of the best left backs in the world for a few years now, very solid.

Nestor Rossi – A complete destroyer and a great leader, Nestor Rossi will control the centre of the pitch and offer a huge amount of protection to my central defenders.

A google translated quote from a former team mate: Rossi "was the one directing the maneuvers the team. He who put things in place in the midfield," he recalled Angel Labruna, the leading scorer in River Plate.

Thus, a player who could break up play but also excellent on the ball.

Jose Leandro Andrade – Arguably the greatest wing-half of all time, Andrade was widely regarded as among the best players in the world in the twenties.

To rob two quotes from a previous draft;

Antohan said:

The first international football superstar. Why? Because at a time when football was about 5 defensive players vs. 5 attacking players, Andrade was the first to combine both to devastating effect. He would both shut out his flank AND make the transition to attack, carrying the ball out of his own half and terrorising defences with his dribbling and precise long passing/crossing.

The Black Marvel, as the French baptised him was the fulcrum for a dominant Uruguay side which picked up two Olympic Golds, the first World Cup and three Copa Américas.

Journalist Raúl Barbero said:

France brought him to the limelight. The nickname "The Black Marvel" was coined after he entangled and captivated the gaul stands with his bewitching play. A polished technique, his feline movement across the pitch, a sense of positioning and timing which allowed him to be in the right place at the right time to avoid a goal, even when the ball had already beaten the keeper. He nullified his rival -whoever that was-; and played his way upfield with a perfect dribble; passed the ball to the centimetre; and defended "from head to toe".

A complete player. A few years ago, a group of reputable critics had a roundtable to determine Uruguay's Best Ever XI and he was undisputed as a right half-back, but also picked as centre-half, and was in with a shout for his latter days as a forward when his pace was gone but his ability on the ball wasn't.

His burst into the Parisian scene was followed by the triumphant campaigns in Amsterdam and Montevideo. In the seven years between 1923 and 1930 he defended the sky blue 43 times, losing only three games and in all the major finals not once did a rival goal originate on his side of the pitch.

In a modern formation he is a right sided cm, as I used him in the last round. However here I am placing him as a deep lying midfielder who will try to roam about and boss the game, kind of like Gattuso, but with a lot more ability on the ball. He will aim to get amongst the left side of the oppositions attacking midfield players and join the attack where possible.

Rene Houseman - A quick winger with incredible dribbling ability, he was named South American footballer of the year twice by El Mundo in 1974 and 1977, and won the world cup in 1978.

Felix Loustau – Was an integral part of the famous La Maquina team for River. He played on the left side of the front five and was known as “el ventilador-wing” which directly translates as “the fan-wing”, essentially he was given this nickname because of his tremendous work rate, which allowed him to support the midfield as well as get forward. He scored 101 goals in 365 games for River and is widely considered one of the greatest wingers in Argentinian history. He was by all accounts a complete winger; pacey, tricky, and highly technically adept, with good end product.

Juan Alberto Schiaffino - was one of the great inside forwards of his day - a man with exquisite ball control, an eye for the telling pass, and scored many important goals. He will look to find space and play passes in behind for Loustau and Spencer making forward runs. He is widely regarded as the greatest Uruguayan footballer of all time and by proxy is the best player available from pool 2. Won the world cup in 1950 in which he scored 5 goals. Was also the world record transfer fee in 1954 when Milan signed him.

Alberto Spencer – ‘A pacy centre-forward who was equally confortable shooting with either foot, perhaps Spencer's greatest attribute was his ability in the air where no less a figure than Pelé described him as one of the finest headers of the ball he had ever seen.’ http://www.world-football-legends.co.uk/index.php/ecu/144-spencer-alberto

He is the all time top scorer of the Copa Libertadores with 54 goals.
 
This looks like another tough game. It gets really difficult after the first round, often very little between either team.
 
I think I got a little too excited when I was browsing formations on some websites and found some with squiggly line option. Late last night I thought 'ooh lets get creative with Zico in the tactic' right before falling asleep.

Anyway, I believe my unpredictably has an advantage in unlocking Boris' defense. I mean look at this backheel through pass:



and this type of interplay for fun Zico -> Socrates, just the two of them needed to cut through the whole Italian defense.

 
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Those Brazilians are scary.

Basically my team is going to be very open in attack with Loustau and Houseman staying very wide in a bid to drag Cerezo and Marcos out of position. I think my wide players have the edge over the opposition full backs and would regularly gain the upper hand in 1 vs 1 situations, which would draw either a centre back or dm out of position to cover, creating space for a Spencer of Schiaffino. Andrade and Rossi may be classed as being relatively defensive minded but both were extremely complete players and are capable of playing probing balls to my attacking midfield 3.

Without the ball Rossi will look to protect the centre halves with Andrade being unleashed in a sense to chase and harry. Luis would be given orders to come very narrow without the ball as Zico will be narrow, and Loustau will cover the attacking full backs runs. Sanchez could arguably get a bit of joy but Jorginhos respective ability means that it would be an even battle.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Not only that - he seems to act like a (malfunctioning) lightning rod, redirecting the charge on towards Careca after having been roasted himself.
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And Socrates, and from him on to Cerezo... That's down to 7 then with all the samba boys out of the picture. Nice one Zico :rolleyes:
 
This one's really hard, on one hand the fancy unpredictable and proven(-ish) combo of Zico - Socrates - Cerezo. But Boris's wingers with Spencer's heading is a scary prospect for any defense. Loustau especially should have a lot of joy against Eyzaguirre, and even in midfield Nestor Rossi and J. L. Andrade is very good combination, their physicality should restrict Socrates and co to some extent.

Think OneNil would dominate the midfield keeping major share of possession but Boris would pose considerable counter threat from those wings and Spencer. From what I've read Domingos was more about keep ing the ball on ground, classy pseudo-libero type of defender. In which case lot would depend on Montero's ariel abilities against Spencer.
 
Tuppet said:
From what I've read Domingos was more about keep ing the ball on ground, classy pseudo-libero type of defender. In which case lot would depend on Montero's ariel abilities against Spencer.
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Being good on the ball doesn't mean you can't win an aerial challenge. Spencer was a beast, but I wouldn't say it all falls solely and squrely on Montero's shoulders just because Domingos could play ball.
 
antohan said:
Being good on the ball doesn't mean you can't win an aerial challenge. Spencer was a beast, but I wouldn't say it all falls solely and squrely on Montero's shoulders just because Domingos could play ball.
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Thats true, I mean all defenders can jump surely, but some have a reputation and some don't, and its not about ball playing ability either. Passarella was fantastic on ball and yet one of the best in air. I don't know much about Domingos, but his reputation seems to be mostly made on his ability on ball. PES stats do not suggest he was that good in air, although I'd be happy to be corrected by more knowledgeable on it.

Edit: Xtraimmortal has given Domingos B- in ariel (although I won't believe that Chumpitaz was c- in air) but going by that does suggest that he wasn't that bad in air. Still he is facing one of the greatest headers of the ball in the game.
 
Re - Bola De Prata 1980
3 different Joãozinhos :lol:
 
Tuppet said:
Thats true, I mean all defenders can jump surely, but some have a reputation and some don't, and its not about ball playing ability either. Passarella was fantastic on ball and yet one of the best in air. I don't know much about Domingos, but his reputation seems to be mostly made on his ability on ball. PES stats do not suggest he was that good in air, although I'd be happy to be corrected by more knowledgeable on it.

Edit: Xtraimmortal has given Domingos B- in ariel (although I won't believe that Chumpitaz was c- in air) but going by that does suggest that he wasn't that bad in air. Still he is facing one of the greatest headers of the ball in the game.
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It's for the manager to argue his case here. I'd just point out that a certain reputation doesn't exclude other things. His ability on the ball stood out because it was extremely rare at the time that a fullback (i.e. CB) would do anything but thump it upfield.
 
Andrade is a full-time central midfielder now? And in a very narrow midfield unit if we are to believe the picture.

Boris has a nice team with a pretty straightforward and direct approach but I don't see him winning here. Proven partnerships and absolutely unplayable combinations of the Brazilians are going to win this game for onenil. It doesn't help that Boris' best defender is not a perfect choice to face them stylistically too - he doesn't get to use his main strength here.
 
harms said:
Andrade is a full-time central midfielder now?
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I'm baffled. I keep saying he ain't no DM and people keep coming back with him in midfield. He was a right halfback whose attributes best translate to a modern wingback or, alternatively, to fullback or the right side of a diamond. Never a CM.

I struggled to make allowances when seeing him in that strange round 1 role, but this is too much from Boris van Gaal.
 
harms said:
Andrade is a full-time central midfielder now? And in a very narrow midfield unit if we are to believe the picture.

Boris has a nice team with a pretty straightforward and direct approach but I don't see him winning here. Proven partnerships and absolutely unplayable combinations of the Brazilians are going to win this game for onenil. It doesn't help that Boris' best defender is not a perfect choice to face them stylistically too - he doesn't get to use his main strength here.
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I knew his midfield would be narrow so I felt having two wingers would take advantage of that, and I had to play Schiaffino. The other option was Andrade at right back and Gerson in cm, but with Zico and Socrates in there I felt I needed the solidity and defensive abilities of Andrade. It's not his best position obviously, but he can get the opportunities to display some of his best attributes as he is not held down in a specific zone because Rossi will always be behind him.
 
It's a shame Gerson isn't on the park. Gerson, Andrade and Rossi was a match-controlling axis, with the class of Schiaffino ahead.
 
Its tough to make definitive statements in the pre-footage era. World Cup footage from 1938 Domingos gets still shots:

uW5PqFq.jpg


I don't think we can say he was weak in the air because he was noted as among the first ball playing defenders.

Also he is noted for his intelligence. Defending crosses and corners is not always about out-jumping the opponent. Domingos can position himself to very much reduce the angle for scoring chances.
 
I wanted to get back to thus but it seems Zicos lightning has fried my computer :( wont be online much until i can rebuild
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
That Brazil team is the hardest to draw inspiration from due to its uniqueness and I'm really appreciate oneniltothearsenal efforts!

Very hard on Boris. I think it'll be a more even contest than the current scoreline!
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It's really odd. Brazil 82 homage sides usually end up sacrificing the accuracy to shoehorn bigger names.

The beauty here is that some players who would otherwise look really suspect actually look great because it's the right setup for them.
 
It's unlucky for Boris in terms of coming up against an opponent that doesn't play to his strengths. I thought he drafted superbly after 4 or 5 turns, perhaps the favourite at that stage. But sometimes in snake drafts it's tricky to fill gaps, and other times you can get a good run of it in the home straight.
 
Gio said:
It's unlucky for Boris in terms of coming up against an opponent that doesn't play to his strengths. I thought he drafted superbly after 4 or 5 turns, perhaps the favourite at that stage. But sometimes in snake drafts it's tricky to fill gaps, and other times you can get a good run of it in the home straight.
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Aye, he was definitely on my 'hope to feck I avoid playing him' list for much of the drafting. As it stands he still has an excellent team, and looking at it I feel his wingers could have had much more joy against the oppo's full backs than the scoreline suggests. Onenil has crafted a really good Brazil '82 homage though.
 
This was far less close than I had expected. I liked Boris's setup although Andrade at RB and Gerson in midfield would have been better.
 
Unfortunately couldn't contribute much to this as something came up, when u got around to it it was 9-2 and basically over so u left it.

The issue in had with Gerson was that I don't think people would have bought him as having much of an effect in the game with Zico and Socrates seen as bigger names. I had hoped having Andrade in there with his physicality and completeness as a footballer would prove as a good enough shield against those names and allow me to accommodate two very wide wingers, I guess not. Obviously he is not a cm but I felt it was the best way forward was attacking the flanks and having a defensively strong midfield base, which Gerson may not have provided, particularly with Zico playing right of centre.

Well played though.

The other option I considered was playing Andrade in an attacking right back position and starting Heinze in a very narrow left back position, similar to Abidal and Alves at Barca. It still would gave left me with a problem in cm though I feel.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
That Brazil team is the hardest to draw inspiration from due to its uniqueness and I'm really appreciate oneniltothearsenal efforts!

Very hard on Boris. I think it'll be a more even contest than the current scoreline!
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Aye I'd echo that. Both managers have done pretty well to get this far and have quality players in it. I thought Boris flanks would give an excellent service for Spencer and with Schiaffino behind him is very potent attack. The scoreline is harsh on him.

Onenil on the other hand as it is has managed to even upgrade that 82 side and the result is also inspiring.
 
BorisDeLeFora said:
The issue in had with Gerson was that I don't think people would have bought him as having much of an effect in the game with Zico and Socrates seen as bigger names.
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Different players. FWIW I rate Gerson higher than Socrates.

The thing is, the moment you pick Gerson you are getting loads of pluses (which you missed here) but have to get him the right partner(s). If "have to build a team around him" applies to anyone in these drafts, that's Gerson.

I understand what you wanted to accomplish there putting more muscle in midfield, but it's reactive, assumes a rival on the frontfoot and eviscerated your team's capability to build up play. Much better to play Gerson and have a go hoping Ruggeri will have the game of his life.
 
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