The 4-Way Draft R1: Oaencha vs Ecstatic

With players at peak, who will win this game?


  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
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Oeancha-formation-tactics.png
vs

....................................... TEAM OAENCHA ..................................................................................... TEAM ECSTATIC .......................................


Team Oeancha

Rüştü Reçber Goalkeeper
Sergi Barjuán Full Back / Wing Back
Sami Hyypiä Centre Back
Fabio Cannavaro Centre Back
Christian Panucci Full Back / Wing Back
Zinedine Zidane Playmaker / Free Role
Roy Keane Ball Winning Midfielder
Ryan Giggs Winger
David Beckham Winger
Alessandro Del Piero Second Striker
Ruud van Nistelrooy Poacher

Subs
Demetrio Albertini
Juan Sebastian Verón
Francesco Totti


Short Summary

I've decided to go with a good old fashioned attacking 4-4-2; similar to Fergie's Utd.

Giggs, Beckham, Keane and Van Nistelrooy are reunited (excuse the pun) with the added genius of Zidane and Del Piero. That's a pretty tasty front six.

Giggs and Del Piero will cause havoc on the left. Beckham will deliver those trademark crosses to van Nistelrooy. Zidane has a free role as playmaker with Keane controlling the midfield.

My defence is not as glamorous but they are all very accomplished players. Cannavaro will lead the back line with Hyypiä providing height and vision. Sergi and Panucci are solid full backs who can both contribute to the attack when needed.

Detailed Summary

Reçber at his best was a class act. So much so he was included in Pele's top 100 list. Sure he was prone to the occasional error but very few goalkeepers had flawless careers. He was a sensational shot stopper with a commanding presence. If it wasn't for his injury just after joining Barcelona he could have had a special career.

Sergi was a product of Barcelona's youth academy. He spent nine years at the club and was their first choice left back for six of those years. He was also capped 56 times for Spain. When defending he was a solid tackler and strong passer of the ball. When attacking he was an absolute speed demon with excellent dribbling and crossing skills. He used to regularly burst forward and overlap with the winger. This will work a treat with Giggs and will be reminiscent of his time playing with Evra.

Panucci is often underrated. He put in some excellent performances for Milan and was a starter for Real Madrid when he followed Capello there. He was a strong and technical player with great distribution. Like Sergi he was a threat going forward and will offer support to Beckham down the right.

Cannavaro was an outstanding centre back and is one of the only defenders to ever win Ballon d'Or. Strong and athletic with exceptional passing and tackling skills. Despite his short stature he was very effective in the air.

He is partnered by Hyypiä. Tall, composed and intelligent with strong tackling skills and aerial ability. He was a key member of the Liverpool team that won the Champions League and the mini treble (FA Cup, League Cup & UEFA Cup).

We all know Keane's qualities. Here he will play as a ball winning general; dominating the midfield, charging into tackles and cutting passing lanes. His main job is to control the midfield and provide cover for Zidane but he is allowed to push further forward when we are in control.

Zidane was exceptionally skilled and has a free role in this team. He is the main playmaker and will be given the space to run the show. He has free reign to dazzle with his footwork and will launch defence splitting passes through the middle and out to the wings. He is of course no stranger to a screamer and is allowed to shoot on sight.

Giggs was a constant menace and will use his pace and dribbling skills to take on players and attack the left wing. He can either deliver the ball into the box for van Nistelrooy, take long shots or interchange passes with Del Piero.

Beckham was incredible with the ball. His crossing skills are up there with the GOAT and he had a great understanding with van Nistelrooy. The right wing is his to own and he is primed to deliver those pin point crosses into the box.

Del Piero was an outstanding talent and is playing as a second striker. He has been given a lot of freedom and will provide a serious attacking threat. He will cut inside from the left, interchange passes with Giggs, unleash long range shots and set up chances for van Nistelrooy.

There's no doubt that van Nistelrooy was lethal in front of goal. He has Zidane, Giggs, Beckham and Del Piero setting up chances for him and he will thrive with this kind of service. His sole job is to get into the right positions in the box and put the ball into the back of the net.


TEAM Ecstatic

The Orange Team - The video sums up the Orange Project - to be watched



Team Captain
: Johan Cruyff (Holland 1974)
Inspiration for the Game #1: Holland 1974 (Cruyff, Krol, Jansen)
Philosophy: TotaalVoetbal. 'Controlled chaos'. Very Fluid style that led to the Netherlands' & AJAX sucesss: WC 1974-78 runner-up, European Cup 71-72-73
Tactical requirement: A player who moves out of his position is replaced by another teammate, thus retaining the team's intended organizational structure.
Style of Play
1. Romantic players with a strong team spirit: we attack and defend together
"We discussed space the whole time. He always talked about where people should run and where they should stand, and when they should not move" Hulshoff
2. Aggressive defending: hard pressing and hard players
Figueroa: “The box is my house; I decide who let in!”
3. Adaptability & Versatility: adaptability of any of my players and ability to quickly switch positions depending on the on-field situation. Players comfortable in multiple positions
4. Demanding system that places high technical and physical demands on them. Players with a high work-rate​

GK - Mazurkiewicz - 1970 FIFA WC Best Goalkeeper
Helped the Uruguay national team to qualify to the semifinals of the 1970 World Cup. He totally kept five clean sheets in World Cup final tournament.
LB - Krol - Greatest defender in the history of Dutch football
2 Times European Defender of The Year (1978, 1979) & FIFA World Cup All-Star Team (Left-back 1974 as a Left-Back, Sweeper1978)
CB - Figueroa - 5 Times South American Defender of the Year (1973 - 1977)
Very strong defenders who cuts out opposition attacks and immediately launch counter attacks from the back.
CB - Trésor - Another complete world-class defender (SF WC 82, Euro 84 Winner)
When he joined AC Ajaccio in 1968 he was classed a centre-forward, but with his physicality and athleticism he was quickly moved into the defence
RB - Vogts - 2 Times German Footballer Of The Year (1971, 1979)
Instrumental player in the successes of Germany between 1970 -1976
CM - Jansen - 65 caps with Netherlands
Key player of Feyenoord that won the European Cup & UEFA Cup
RCM - Pirri - The greatest Spanish Box-to-Box - 3 times in the top 10 Ballon D'or
Defensive midfielder for Real Madrid/Spain until he's 28 and then deployed as a sweeper. High stamina. Impressive stats: 152 goals in 493 games.#Total Football
Left-Attacking Midfielder - Cubillas 312 goals/533 games - to switch roles with Cruyff
A Peruvian Impact player. World Cup Participation : 1970,78,82 (13 Games/10 Goals/2 Assists)
RW - Lato - 6th place in the 1974 Ballon'Dor as the best place of winger (WC 74: 7 goals in 7 games)
Versatility: second striker during his club career and winger position under Poland shirt. Poland: 45 goals in 100 games
LW - Best - Ballon D'Or 1968
“Soccer Beatle” was ambidextrous and fantastic all over the pitch
True 9 & False 9 - Johan Cruyff (371 Goals/ 663 Games) - Ballon D'Or 1971-73-74: the greatest European footballer of all-time?
Orchestrator of “The Controlled Chaos” of The Orange Machine as a deep-lying Forward (48 Games, 33 Goals, 26 Assists). 1974 FIFA World Cup Best Player


 
Zidane in a midfield 2, even if he didnt have a free role wouldnt work and this way its a recipe for a disaster really.
 
Oaencha you only have one proper central midfielder?
 
@Ecstatic Best is a crap fit for Total Football and Cruyff IMO, other then that the team looks pretty good, would prefer a different RB but thats a minor issue.
 
Oaencha you only have one proper central midfielder?
Zidane and Keane are the central midfield pairing. Keane will cover when Zidane pushes forward. This is similar to the Keane/Scholes combo.
 
I don't remember that draft. What happened?

Its running now in the other forum. Because of how the database aged the classic players (modern players at 17-18 and every decade further back adding a year) @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson selected an entire midfield of 17-18 year olds like Xavi, Xabi Alonso. So the AI is starting Alain Giresse and Zidane and his CMs until Xavi and Xabi get older.

--

Anyway for this actual match. Zidane in a midfield two works for me here mostly because the rest of the players are spot on and Ecstatic also has some issues with Best not necessarily being a grewat tactical fit for a Cruyffian total football side.
 
It's lucky I'm not competitive and enjoy the drafting more than the matches.

I really like Ecstatic's team but this shouldn't be so one sided.

My front six are class and the Zidane/Keane combo like Scholes/Keane works just fine.

As mentioned the team is set up like Fergie's Utd. 4-4-2 with Zidane replacing Scholes and Del Piero as the second striker. I have two full backs who can attack, one absolute world class centre back and one very reliable one.
 
Its running now in the other forum. Because of how the database aged the classic players (modern players at 17-18 and every decade further back adding a year) @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson selected an entire midfield of 17-18 year olds like Xavi, Xabi Alonso. So the AI is starting Alain Giresse and Zidane and his CMs until Xavi and Xabi get older.

--

Anyway for this actual match. Zidane in a midfield two works for me here mostly because the rest of the players are spot on and Ecstatic also has some issues with Best not necessarily being a grewat tactical fit for a Cruyffian total football side.
Thanks for the info; I haven't been following the FM draft. I will take a look as it sounds interesting.
 
It's lucky I'm not competitive and enjoy the drafting more than the matches.

I really like Ecstatic's team but this shouldn't be so one sided.

My front six are class and the Zidane/Keane combo like Scholes/Keane works just fine.

As mentioned the team is set up like Fergie's Utd. 4-4-2 with Zidane replacing Scholes and Del Piero as the second striker. I have two full backs who can attack, one absolute world class centre back and one very reliable one.
Have no issues with your front 4 it's class. I just don't rate Zidane's defensive game, people often underrate Scholes defensive game which imo was good.
 
As you know, a draft is essentially a matter of football fiction. You build a team with players from different eras and backgrounds. There are no scientific basis to say "Best & Cruyff will/won't work in real life", "Best can / cannot fit the mould"...or to say "Schevchenko & Maradona would work" :p Maybe you are right. Maybe you are wrong. After all, one can argue Total Football means nothing and everything. So, the question should be rather to discuss if the proposed strategy is harmonious or not.

Of course, its a game of opinions so nobody can prove anything.
Biggest issue i have is Cruyff and Best together....anyone who watched Bestie will tell you he likes the ball, we all saw it. Both Sir Bobby and Law confirmed it and even Best himself admitted he considers himself a selfish player. In total football everything is about Cruyff, he was alpha and omega of that team and everyone worked for him(Best wouldnt). Not only with the ball but without as well. If you had to choose one tactic where everything goes around/through one player its total football and Best and Cruyff would clash IMO
btw you have my vote i just wanted to comment this so you get some feedback about your team as well.
 
The feck, lots of one sided games!

This draft is weird.
I wasn't confident on winning but I thought this match would be close. Honestly, the score is seriously harsh as I have a strong team.

It would be nice if there was more imput from voters. There are hardly any comments on this match and I would like to know why my team is being poo-pooed.
 
I wasn't confident on winning but I thought this match would be close. Honestly, the score is seriously harsh as I have a strong team.

It would be nice if there was more imput from voters. There are hardly any comments on this match and I would like to know why my team is being poo-pooed.

Don't like the Keana Zidane midfield at all. Its terrible for both of them and seriously limits both of them. Decided purely based on that.

You shud have ggone with Madrid 2002 formation since Giggs and Beckam can both play a bit to the middle as well.

------Del Piero------RvN------------
---------------Zizou-----------------
------Giggs---------Becks-----------
--------------Keana----------------

This is much more balanced and would have some control over the game. Your CM looks like one of those PL best 11 teams at the end of the season where they try to fit players somehow.
 
Just realized someone else mentioned Madrid 2002 as well. Didnt read it before.
 
Well played @Ecstatic; I won't catch up now.

I like what you've done with your team although as others have mentioned I don't think Best is the best fit. I also think your defence would have serious problems containing my attack.

The only negative I have heard is that Zidane and Keane doesn't work. I completely disagree but I guess that's subjective. If that is the only reason why the votes are against me then that's crazy harsh.

I'm also very disappointed with the lack of imput in this draft. We all put in a lot of effort building our teams and write ups and it would be nice for more comments. We haven't even reached the second page.
 
Well played @Ecstatic; I won't catch up now.

I like what you've done with your team although as others have mentioned I don't think Best is the best fit. I also think your defence would have serious problems containing my attack.

The only negative I have heard is that Zidane and Keane doesn't work. I completely disagree but I guess that's subjective. If that is the only reason why the votes are against me then that's crazy harsh.

I'm also very disappointed with the lack of imput in this draft. We all put in a lot of effort building our teams and write ups and it would be nice for more comments. We haven't even reached the second page.

In regards to the last part, that's probably because it's a Sunday and there's three separate matches going on. It's gonna be hard to get a lot of participation in each match with that being the case. My thread only reached 3 or 4 pages after the match finished, and even that was because of the voting controversy :lol:
 
@Oaencha i voted purely based on Zidane in midfield two(with a free role as well) because i think thats a key area in 442 so its irrelevant what else you have in the team IMO
But if you want i can comment now, attack is lovely. Del Piero and Ruud is a fantastic partnership. Wingers are great as well. Defence is a bit meh compared to the ecstatic back 4 + you have a lesser gk. Cannavaro and Hyypia is a good pair tactic wise though.
 
Well played @Ecstatic; I won't catch up now.

I like what you've done with your team although as others have mentioned I don't think Best is the best fit. I also think your defence would have serious problems containing my attack.

The only negative I have heard is that Zidane and Keane doesn't work. I completely disagree but I guess that's subjective. If that is the only reason why the votes are against me then that's crazy harsh.

I'm also very disappointed with the lack of imput in this draft. We all put in a lot of effort building our teams and write ups and it would be nice for more comments. We haven't even reached the second page.

The matches in general lately don't seem to attract the same level of debate. It's natural I guess in that alot of the arguments about specific players have been thrashed out before, and I also feel that alot of us are less competitive and bothered about winning than previously, although there's regular exceptions to that rule of course. It is frustratig when the match thread quickly fizzles out of course.

As regards this match, the Zidane/Keane partnership is troublesome against a disciplined, quality central midfield of Jansen/Pirri/Cubillas. This bit was the clncher for me though in terms of functionality:

Zidane was exceptionally skilled and has a free role in this team

I just don't think you can afford Zidane that level of freedom in this formation. Scholes had licence to break forward but he certainly never had a free role as a CM, and for all the flak he took for his tackling he put in plenty of work out of possession. Where Zidane had a free role, he generally had two or more defensive-minded midfielders behind him, whether for France (as Ecstatic has shown), Real (where he mostly played from the left with Roberto Carlos overlapping) or Juve (Davids, Descamps, Conte etc).

There's a big quality differential in terms of your respective defences too. Cannavaro is the only one who could realistically get into the opposition XI, and even that might be debatable. I actually think Panucci is very underrated and thought he was excellent in his early career at Milan, but you have to give Best a distinct edge in that match up.

On @Ecstatic 's team, I think it's excellent across the board, but I share some of the reservations about Best in a Cruyff-led Total Football system, although mostly I just wanted to see Tostao start :D. Its partly just semantics, but a front three of Cruyff--Tostao--Best, with the rest of the team playing in a more orthodox style with less emphasis on total football positional interchanges, would really hit the mark for me. Still a great team though.
 
1. Thanks mate. You have great players.
2. Who would be a better fit according to you?
3. Why do you think you have a better defence?
4. Which version of Zidane do you like the most?
5. Single reason for some maybe. Other reasons for others
6. Sunday maybe. A thread game is generally between 2 and 4 pages.

I will make other posts about new subjects tomorrow.

Time to sleep. See u tomorrow
Without researching your timeline, no name immediately comes to mind. Best was legendary but I would liked to have seen more of a traditional playmaker. I can just see Best trying to run the game by himself and you wouldn't get the best out of Cruyjff.

I wouldn't say I have the better defence. I just feel that my attack would be too much for your defenders. In that respect I could say the same for yours. I am happy with the Cannavaro/Hyypiä combo; I think they work well together. Sergi and Panucci are solid but not spectacular. I just think our teams are closer than the votes suggest.

I loved the Juventus Zidane best. I appreciate he usually plays with two defensive midfielders behind him but I feel he has more than enough quality to work in this team. Imagine Zidane playing with Keane, Beckham, Giggs and van Nistelrooy at Utd. It would have been immense. Keane was more than capable of covering for Scholes when he pushed forward. He can do the exact same here.
 
I'm also very disappointed with the lack of imput in this draft. We all put in a lot of effort building our teams and write ups and it would be nice for more comments. We haven't even reached the second page.

Weekends are like that. During weekdays, you have school, work etc...lots of places to relax. Not as hectic as a weekend at home. ;)
 
It's too late now but to elaborate: Zidane's free role gives him freedom to push forward and play as an attacking midfielder when the team are attacking. He is not going to be charging all over the pitch and the team will still remain structured. Keane will provide cover.
 
@Oaencha i voted purely based on Zidane in midfield two(with a free role as well) because i think thats a key area in 442 so its irrelevant what else you have in the team IMO
But if you want i can comment now, attack is lovely. Del Piero and Ruud is a fantastic partnership. Wingers are great as well. Defence is a bit meh compared to the ecstatic back 4 + you have a lesser gk. Cannavaro and Hyypia is a good pair tactic wise though.
Thank you for the comments. Zidane is playing the Scholes role but with slightly more freedom. I think that works a treat with the players around them.
 
Thank you for the comments. Zidane is playing the Scholes role but with slightly more freedom. I think that works a treat with the players around them.

i saw that but i dont think he can pull it of, certainly not at this level. Scholes pretty much played his whole career in a midfield two and early days when he was moved back from the AM position Fergie most often used Butt in big games alongside Keano until Scholes didnt master the trade.
 
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@Oaencha We tried voting for scorelines but it just didn't work that well. I think you can tell whether it was close by the comments and your take on the game.
 
@Oaencha

Commiserations.

Your team is nice and better than yours in the previous drafts.

Next time you will win your 1st game :)
Thank you. I genuinely enjoy the team building more than the matches so I'm not too fussed. I do feel that teams with older generation players seem to get more votes. I may try something different in the next draft.
 
Didn't have much time in the weekend, just found out most matches went by. :lol:

@Oaencha , there were many things to like about your team especially the Del Piero/RvN combo - think they will work pretty well complimented by those flanks.

Thought that the midfield was a bit light, tho, hence voting for Ecstatic. In all time sense especially Keane/Zidane combo would be difficult to sell. In the late 90's early 00's Fergie went 4-5-1 in biggest games and usually Scholes was playing behind the striker. We had an awesome midfield but in Europe we underachieved - something Fergie changed later on.

With another holding midfielder/CM next to Keane and Zidane at #10 behind RvN I think the score would be much tighter.

You have some good ideas mate and you'll get there as soon as even the next draft. We've all been there, but the most important part is to have fun :)