Barcelona
Juventus
Spurs
Any others?
Juventus
Spurs
Any others?
Teams we should avoid doing transfer dealings with
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
Everyone...they all take us for mugs
Dortmund
Barca once this De Jong deal is concluded
Real
Dortmund
Spurs
Juventus
No player is worth the hassle of dealing with any of those 5.
Real
Dortmund
Spurs
Juventus
No player is worth the hassle of dealing with any of those 5.
Robben, Haaland, Modric, Carrick, Cancelo?
Carrick joined us over 15 years ago. Football is completely different these days and Spurs are a horrific club to do deals with, just ask Mr Harry Kane.
Liverpool?
Teams with bad players.
that beach team in Spain
I don't think we should avoid any club. Every transfer is different, we signed Kagawa easily and took some time for Mkhi and lot more for Sancho.
We completed de Beek easily and will take bit of time with Ajax this season.
It all depends on players and also selling club situation.
We completed de Beek easily and will take bit of time with Ajax this season.
It all depends on players and also selling club situation.
Dortmund. Even a sure thing like Halaand I have my doubts about simply because he played for Dortmund.
Any team that uses the phrase economic levers!
We're so shite at transfers we couldn"t by one of our own players !!
Teams that overvalue their players.
Dortmund and Barcelona should be blocked and reported
Barcelona are in a league of their own as ultimate cuntbags. Dortmund may have had their deadlines and petty tweets from their official account, but they never once were in active negotiations with a skeletal fee agreed only for their president to go live and say completely conflicting points.
I don't really see the issue with Dortmund. They set a price in 2020 for Sancho which we seemingly spent the entire summer trying to negotiate them down from unsuccessfully, it wasn't as if they were changing the goalposts they just set a price and stuck to it. We then got him in 2021 for the price we had wanted to pay in 2020.
Barcelona are utter cnuts, but we've known that for years so it's no surprise really.
Barcelona are utter cnuts, but we've known that for years so it's no surprise really.
I think the only issue with Dortmund might be the apparent setup there seems to bring out some excellent looking players that somehow regularly seem to underperform elsewhere?
Think its more about us. We buy a Dortmund player and play them in another position
Gundogan, Isak, Merino, Yarmolenko, Hummels, Kampl, Hofmann for example were all worth the money and are worth more than they were sold by Dortmund
Dembele was always injured, Gotze was a bit overrated due to his age and didnt make it at Bayern. Kagawa we didnt use like Dortmund did and Sancho we're playing him on the left when they mostly used him on the right
That depends how you look at it I guess, they're certainly team with a very specific way of player across a long period of time (across several managers) and the recruit players to fit their system and style of play which can elevate that player beyond their individual level. A lot of clubs, similar to us, bring players in and expect them to fit into a different system and way of playing while maintaining the high level but either don't give those players the time to adapt or just hope those players are going to become players they are never likely to be. Other clubs bring in players and give them that time to adapt and have seen success.
It's not Dortmunds fault though. If the scouts can't identify this issue, then it's the buying club's incompetence which creates the problem.
I think you are partly right, some of it is I think the better players you mention there are players who stayed within the German league or don't play upfront (which seems to be the most dramatic drop offs we see). I think it is a major factor of why some players look great at Dortmund. I know other people have suggested either the defending or the pace in Germany is a factor in this, but I am not sure what it is.
Isak, Yarmolenko, Mkhi, Kagawa haven't exactly pulled up trees wherever they go outside Germany. Sancho has played best left for us, whenever we see him on the right he is poor by comparison. His stats for Dortmund show him to be better off the left than the right, especially in his later seasons.
I think thats the only thing that can be levelled at Dortmund players, is their lack of success elsewhere, particularly if they move from Germany.
I had a quick look at players sold outside of Germany by Dortmund for big fees:
Immobile
Mkhi
Gundogan
Dembele
Aubameyang
Mor
Ramos
Bartra
Christian Pulisic
Andriy Yarmolenko
Sokratis Papastathopoulos
Abdou Diallo
Paco Alcácer
Julian Weigl
Maximilian Philipp
Alexander Isak
Jadon Sancho
Leonardo Balerdi
How many would we consider big successes, for any number of reasons. Maybe Gundogan, possibly Aubameyang for a few years? Immobile once he went to Italy. Pretty small numbers unless some of those players are just not standing out?
I agree, its certainly a reason to be wary of Dortmund, its not a reason not to buy from them though.
It would help not obsessing over specific players every summer. It's a stupid way of working, because once a club knows the player is the number 1 choice you'll get bent over.
You need to work more opportunistically. Don't be set on specific players, and just get the best available for the best price possible.
You need to work more opportunistically. Don't be set on specific players, and just get the best available for the best price possible.
Which our fanbase never accept. They will go on about how the manager wasn't supported.
Our fanbase is stupid and detrimental to the club for the most part. The best thing the clubs hierarchy can do is, just stop engaging with the clubs fanbase. Think of them as immature little children who don't know whats best for them.
It's a nice list, but how many of these were really successful in Dortmund?
Immobile - failed in Dortmund
Mkhi - had one good season, one decent
Gundogan - good player without a doubt
Dembele - massively talented, but discipline and injury issues. Continued the same way in Barcelona
Aubameyang - quite successful both for Dortmund and Arsenal
Mor - didn't make it in Dortmund
Ramos - was decent, but not great
Bartra - just wasn't the same after the bomb attack
Christian Pulisic - left Dortmund after being benched by Sancho
Andriy Yarmolenko - wasn't impressive
Sokratis Papastathopoulos - good defender, not outstanding
Abdou Diallo - can't even remember
Paco Alcácer - had a great spell as super sub, but never actually became first choice for a longer time
Julian Weigl - is performing on a similar level for Benfica as for Dortmund
Maximilian Philipp - didn't make it in Dortmund
Alexander Isak - didn't make it in Dortmund
Jadon Sancho - outstanding over years for Dortmund, disappointing so far for United
Leonardo Balerdi - can't remember
So overall I don't see any unexpected big drops in performances for the players who left Dortmund. Several players improved quite a lot after leaving, others roughly kept their level, and then there are those that moved to United
By the way, saying Dortmund played the same way and a good system that makes players look better than they really are is laughable. Just look at the amount of coaches they went through and how different they were (just think of Bosz' super high pressing and Favre's much more passive style)
Avoiding teams entirely for transfer dealings doesn't really work out IMO(besides the obvious Liverpool and City).
That said, the less we do business with Barcelona, the better.
That said, the less we do business with Barcelona, the better.
hmm good point I guess, I was just looking for ones who were successful after leaving Dortmund, based on the comment someone made that lots of players leaving dortmund were successful. Although I did look at the stats of some players and thought something similar, where does this reputation come from, or is it just players who come to us, probably would explain itIt's a nice list, but how many of these were really successful in Dortmund?
Immobile - failed in Dortmund
Mkhi - had one good season, one decent
Gundogan - good player without a doubt
Dembele - massively talented, but discipline and injury issues. Continued the same way in Barcelona
Aubameyang - quite successful both for Dortmund and Arsenal
Mor - didn't make it in Dortmund
Ramos - was decent, but not great
Bartra - just wasn't the same after the bomb attack
Christian Pulisic - left Dortmund after being benched by Sancho
Andriy Yarmolenko - wasn't impressive
Sokratis Papastathopoulos - good defender, not outstanding
Abdou Diallo - can't even remember
Paco Alcácer - had a great spell as super sub, but never actually became first choice for a longer time
Julian Weigl - is performing on a similar level for Benfica as for Dortmund
Maximilian Philipp - didn't make it in Dortmund
Alexander Isak - didn't make it in Dortmund
Jadon Sancho - outstanding over years for Dortmund, disappointing so far for United
Leonardo Balerdi - can't remember
So overall I don't see any unexpected big drops in performances for the players who left Dortmund. Several players improved quite a lot after leaving, others roughly kept their level, and then there are those that moved to United
By the way, saying Dortmund played the same way and a good system that makes players look better than they really are is laughable. Just look at the amount of coaches they went through and how different they were (just think of Bosz' super high pressing and Favre's much more passive style)
We should not avoid any club if an opportunity arises.
No one imo. We should just have good alternatives so walking away is not that big of an issue.
I'm pretty sure if Sociedad sell Isak its going to be for at least 3 or 4 times the 15 million euros they got for him because he isnt just a goalscorer, he has the physical assets managers tend to want in a striker and can link up. And I wouldnt say 15 million euros is "a big fee" to get for him either.
20 million euros for Weigl who is established in Portugal. Probably get 1.5 or 2x that if they sell him to an English club
Alcacer weirdly hasnt established himself that well at Villarreal. I saw his breakthrough at Valencia and thought he was going to be the closest thing they get to a new Villa, he hasnt progressed and I'm not sure the reasoning for that other than going to Barcelona too soon, but then doing quite well at Dortmund but not enough to stay in when Haaland was signed and so he was sold... Which considering its Haaland isnt much of a black mark. But yeah at Villarreal he hasnt established himself to the extent he did at Dortmund so thats a strange one for me.
Sancho, as much as he was dissappointing last season and we also played him in a different position to Dortmund most of the time... It also wouldnt be the first player who took a season to get going. Drogba was one of the best examples of that. He came in with massive hype after his exploits in european competition for a big fee at the time and he didnt look that good first season. And then after that he got going and was key to Chelsea's success moving forward. So we'll see with Sancho...
Auba was very good for Arsenal for several seasons, big fee though.
Miki is Roma's best player and has been the past couple of seasons
Pulisic has been a clear success at Chelsea
Diallo I was surprised PSG paid that much for him but it seems more about not being picked rather than not performing. And the players who are picked at leftback and CB instead of him are good players. Still maybe you'd expect him to be starting more for the fee, or you say that the players picked instead of him would cost more than his fee... which is probably true isnt it?
Liverpool and Stoke.
CANCELLED!
It really seems like mostly players who moved from Dortmund to United dropped their level. But this probably says more about United than about Dortmund, as other players moving from Dortmund to the PL didn't have big issues.
I personally wouldn't like to see us doing deals with Newcastle, because feck them and feck the Saudi regime.
You have to wonder if it's worth dealing with Barca at the moment. Most of their players will have this deferred wages issue and the club president is very obviously a complete dickhead.
You have to wonder if it's worth dealing with Barca at the moment. Most of their players will have this deferred wages issue and the club president is very obviously a complete dickhead.
Pulisic .. has he, I didnt think so tbh, but if you say so.
I wouldn't rule any club out. I think that's juvenile. Every deal is different and has different motivations on each side and even if a club is usually difficult to deal with the situation can change in terms of staff or outlook. Some people on here seem to think what is reasonable is what is reasonable to us.
I would be more concerned about which agtens I would avoid dealing with. But on the other hand; I would never sell to Liverpool and City - unless it was a player we hardly can use anymore our self (and then Liverpool and City would not want them either).