T20 Auction draft Semi final - Anant vs Varun

Who would win more matches with the conditions in mind?

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

crappycraperson

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Welcome to the second semifinal match of the T20 Auction Draft. A few considerations to keep in mind for the voters.
  • Players should be judged based on their T20 performances only.
  • Pitch conditions - Pitch 4 (P4) - Slow pitch with variable bounce, mainly assisting slow/spin bowlers
Team @anant
  1. Rohit Sharma
  2. Shaun Marsh
  3. Kane Williamson
  4. Yuvraj Singh
  5. Buttler
  6. Luke Wright
  7. Albie Morkel
  8. Sir Jadeja
  9. Ashwin
  10. Malinga
  11. Starc

Team @Varun

Brendan McCullum
Graeme Smith
Kevin Pietersen
Kumar Sangakkara
Andrew Symonds
David Miller
Dwayne Bravo
Daniel Vettori
Harbhajan Singh
Mitchell Johnson
Sunil Narine



Team anant

anant said:
  1. Rohit Sharma
  2. Shaun Marsh
  3. Kane Williamson
  4. Yuvraj Singh
  5. Buttler
  6. Luke Wright
  7. Albie Morkel
  8. Sir Jadeja
  9. Ashwin
  10. Malinga
  11. Starc
With Rohit Sharma, We have a batsman who scores at a S/R of 130.92, averages 32.39. He has scored most centuries by an Indian(tied at 3 ) in T20s. He also has the MOST 50+ scores by an Indian in T20s(40, and yes, more than Virat who has 38).

Shaun Marsh is a player who has established himself as a player who is a fairly regular scorer of Boundaries. In fact, He averages a 4 or a six every 5.98 deliveries. Also, he has scored 37 50+scores and 2 100s in T20s. And before I forget Average of 41.30 (2nd highest among players with 50+innings)

Kane has established himself as among the best batsmen of the past few years in all formats. He is currently the only batsman to be in top 10 in all 3 formats! He has knack of converting those 20s into 50s, with him having registered a remarkable 11 50+ scores in just 82 innings and that too in tougher batting conditions He also registers least dot ball percentage in an innings (39.4%)(Compare that to Chris Gayle who has 64%) and hits a boundary every 5.8 balls in his first 10 balls ( Kohli does that every 6.3 balls). He has a remarkable dot ball ratio of just 34% which highlights his ability to hit a boundary or rotate strike on a regular basis. Kane also manages a 4 every 6.54 balls (5th highest among players who have faced 500balls in International T20s) (For reference Kohli has it at 7.18). And not just this, he has a remarkable bowling average of 7.07 after having bowled almost 120 overs in T20 cricket!

Yuvraj Singh is a player who doesn't need any introduction. The 1st player to hit 6 sixes in an over in T20Is, the record holder for fastest T20 50, 212 sixes in just 166 innings, averaging a 4 or a six every 5.75 deliveries. Add to that very respectable bowling stats- Economy of 7.22, and a strike rate of 18.5 deliveries, makes him among the most effective allrounders in the game. Also he has 2 hattricks in T20s
Luke Wright is possibly my team’s wildcard player. A High score of 153* is a mark of his class. A player with 33 50+ scores in T20. 3rd most T20 100s (6), ONLY player to have 2 fastest T20 100s in top 20 fastest T20 100s list! A S/R of 146.68 and Avg. of 28.54 to add to the achievements.
Jos Buttler has established himself as a fine WK and a batsman. S/R of 145.07 and average of 27.34, not many WKs can boast of better numbers.
For a person watching IPL, Albie needs no introduction. In Batting, a fantastic S/R of 137.80 at an average of 25.86. He has 217 6s and 237 4s to his name in just the T20s! He has a good bowling S/R of 20.4 and is a very handy 3rd pace bowler.
Sir Jadeja is a more than decent player. An Important member of Rajasthan Royals’ IPL win, and later a record transfer in IPL auctions. Jaddu has proved himself time and again with him being a good batsman, a more than decent bowler and easily ranks as among the best fielders today.
Ashwin is the best Spin bowler, if not bowler today and possibly among top 2-3 in T20s of all time. 6.67- Not the no. of times Fellaini elbows someone/ 90 minutes but Ashwin’s economy rate. Also, he can bat!
Then come by 2 Fast bowlers. Starc and Malinga.
Everyone knows how good Malinga is. If there is 1 bowler who can bowl 6 yorkers in an over- it is him. Record holder of most wickets in t20s (299), holder of 3rd best bowling figures in an innings (6/7), holder of 3rd most wickets in calendar year (63 in 2012)(despite having played 7 and 9 fewer matches than the top 2, who got 3 and 6 more wickets than him), record holder for most 5 wicket hauls (4), and also record for most 4+ wicket hauls (12), featuring in top 5 in most maidens bowled in career(13), most wickets taken as bowled (40.9%) which highlights an unerring accuracy.
Starc- A bowling strike rate of 14.7(highest for a bowler with 300+ overs)- which basically highlights that should he bowl a 2 over spell, in the beginning of a match, there is a 81.7% chance of him taking a wicket.


Why I’d win?

I have the best spinner and the 2 best fast bowlers! I have the better spin duo (best in the world IMO), I have a bowler who has possibly been the most impactful bowler in T20s.

And I also have batsmen who can hit but also run singles and doubles. My batting goes till no.9, and I have atleast 7 bowling options, with 4 spinners.

My batting lineup has much more variety and is not reliant on any one player which makes the side more balanced and more favoured for victory.

And I have players who are very experienced in T20s, something that Varun's team lacks. Sure, he has some icons of the game, but guys like Bracken, Bond, Symonds, Smith have not played a lot of T20. Additionally, Mitch Johnson hasn't had any sort of impact in T20s, and more so when compared with his performances in other 2 formats
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Team Varun

t20%20team_zpsby55dgrj.png


Varun said:
Batting:
Opening our batting is one of the top 3 batsmen in T20 cricket in Brendan McCullum. Then we have the classy Graeme Smith who is the perfect stable partner to McCullum's big hitting. This superb combo will give us the great start we need.

Following them is the brilliant KP. A superb stroke maker who scores briskly while not giving his wicket away due to his ability to score quick without taking unnecessary risks. To complete the top order is the classy southpaw, Sangakkara. Another batsman who is pleasing on the eye and scores runs quickly and does not give his wicket away due to his style.

To finish off our main batting line up, we have 3 quintessential T20 players in Symonds, Miller and Bravo. They will wreck havoc at the end with their incredible hitting.

Our tail can also chip in if necessary as Vettori at 8 is a very handy bat and Harbhajan and Johnson at 9 and 10 if they get a few balls to tonk. This tail can definitely wag.

Bowling:
Mitchell Johnson will open with the new ball alongside Bravo. Mitch's success powering Mumbai Indians to IPL glory in 2013 shows he can do it on subcontinental wickets and his slower ball will find victims here. Bravo is one of the best medium pacers on slow wickets, demonstrated by his success during the recent WC and IPL 2015.

The middle overs will be dominated by our spin trio: Narine, Vettori and Bhajji. All our spinners are difficult to score off and have a knack of taking wickets. Narine is easily the best spinner in T20s while Vettori's left arm spin will add variety to our spin attack. Harbhajan is the 3rd highest wicket taker in IPL overall. We also have Symonds who can chip in a few additional overs of offspin if any of our main bowlers get hit for a few.

Why We'll Win:
- Quality batsmen who won't give away their wicket cheaply. On a surface like this, you need batsmen who can play themselves in and then make it count.
- Three quality spinners, plus a spin all-rounder. On this wicket, being able to send down up to 16 overs of spin is a big bonus.
- Anant didn't bid on Kohli.
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Since when can Aldo make polls? Has he also been lying about mod powers like KM?
 
anant's bowling attack is better but Varun's spin trio maybe tilt this in his favor in these conditions. Actually I still prefer anant's bowling attack since I am not sure Johnson's effectiveness in T20s especially in these conditions, whilst Malinga and Starc can still have an impact on any pitch.

Anyway, I can't vote here
 
I think Varun will win because when you spell his name backwards it says Nurav.
 
Johnson was very good for MI in the IPL. Anant has the best one in Malinga though.

Also, Narine+Vettori+Bhajji>>Ashwin+Jadeja. This is a spin track and we have 3 quality spinners including the best one. Amazed to see Ashwin being called better than Narine tbf.

We also have Dwayne bravo who is among the best in such conditions as seen on numerous occasions, be it the T20 WC or the IPL.

We also have the clearly superior batting.

Basically, we have better batsmen and better spinners while he has the best pacer. This gap is further widened by bravo being superb on such pitches.
 
I think Varun's team is much suited to ODI than T20 where as anant has better T20 players. Ashwin is best spinner among the both teams.
Staarc and Malinga the best bowlers to bowl in those depth overs.
Anant batting is well balanced with players who can make some quick runs as well stay composed in case some early wkts go down.
 
Varun has a good side, but it is an ODI side. The stats quoted are on basis of 30 odd games, for symonds 14 games! Some of the players haven't even played 100 T20s in all competitions!
And as far as Mitch Johnson is concerned- His T20 stats are pretty poor! His economy rate is 7.78, His strike rate for a pace spearhead is also not impressive at 18.8, and as far as the argument of his performances in IPL are concerned, he has an economy rate of 8.1!
 
anant said:
I have the better spin duo (best in the world IMO)
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Who is in this better spin duo? Narine is better than Ashwin in both IPL and in internationals. Vettori and Harbhajan are better spinners than Yuvraj and Jadeja, both of whom are only part timers / allrounders.
 
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anant said:
Varun has a good side, but it is an ODI side. The stats quoted are on basis of 30 odd games, for symonds 14 games! Some of the players haven't even played 100 T20s in all competitions!
And as far as Mitch Johnson is concerned- His T20 stats are pretty poor! His economy rate is 7.78, His strike rate for a pace spearhead is also not impressive at 18.8, and as far as the argument of his performances in IPL are concerned, he has an economy rate of 8.1!
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I assume you are referring to our batsmen SR. Can you post the SR of your batsmen for cross reference?

Btw, there is no cutoff for no of T20s played so I'm not sure why you're harping about experience. I'd rather have Symonds who has played lesser T20s than some average batsman who has played 1000 T20s.
 
Mani said:
I think Varun's team is much suited to ODI than T20 where as anant has better T20 players. Ashwin is best spinner among the both teams.
Staarc and Malinga the best bowlers to bowl in those depth overs.
Anant batting is well balanced with players who can make some quick runs as well stay composed in case some early wkts go down.
Click to expand...
There's absolutely no way Ashwin is a better T20 bowler than Narine. Our batting is comfortably better too, it's not even a contest. Whether you want hard hitting or people to settle and then go hard.
 
Varun said:
I assume you are referring to our batsmen SR. Can you post the SR of your batsmen for cross reference?

Btw, there is no cutoff for no of T20s played so I'm not sure why you're harping about experience. I'd rather have Symonds who has played lesser T20s than some average batsman who has played 1000 T20s.
Click to expand...

Player S/R
Rohit 130.92
Marsh 129.6
Kane 119.93
Yuvraj 131.09
Wright 146.68
Buttler 145.07
Albie 137.8

And these stats are over all T20s and not just T20Is

And not regarding the issue of SR, but the lack of experience in T20s. I won't mind having Tendulkar in my lineup because he has more quality, but the thing is he hasn't proved himself in T20s.

EDIT: Just checked, Sachin actually is more experienced than Smith, Symonds, Mitch
 
Don't really understand why you think playing in 86 T20s like Smith has or 93 like Symonds has are insufficient to 'prove yourself' in T20s. It's not like we're talking about players who have played just a handful of games here.

Btw problem with using stats from all T20s is the highly varying level of opposition given the different domestic leagues. International level standardizes it a little bit. Still, better not to rely too heavily on the stats.
 
Akshay said:
Don't really understand why you think playing in 86 T20s like Smith has or 93 like Symonds has are insufficient to 'prove yourself' in T20s. It's not like we're talking about players who have played just a handful of games here.

Btw problem with using stats from all T20s is the highly varying level of opposition given the different domestic leagues. International level standardizes it a little bit. Still, better not to rely too heavily on the stats.
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The stats posted are actually of T20 Internationals only, so I am assuming that only Internationals are being used to judge player. And that's where the problem lies.
And domestic league performance inclusion is pretty fair as most countries' players take part in other countries' event. I think apart from Indians, every player has played in multiple T20 tournaments
 
anant said:
Player S/R
Rohit 130.92
Marsh 129.6
Kane 119.93
Yuvraj 131.09
Wright 146.68
Buttler 145.07
Albie 137.8

And these stats are over all T20s and not just T20Is

And not regarding the issue of SR, but the lack of experience in T20s. I won't mind having Tendulkar in my lineup because he has more quality, but the thing is he hasn't proved himself in T20s.

EDIT: Just checked, Sachin actually is more experienced than Smith, Symonds, Mitch
Click to expand...
So SR wasn't the point. Ok, good.

About experience then, Symonds for you hasn't proved his worth in T20s?
 
Varun said:
So SR wasn't the point. Ok, good.

About experience then, Symonds for you hasn't proved his worth in T20s?
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Not specifically Symonds, but these veteran players group. Pointed to Symonds, because it highlights the 11 innings with 4 NOs only which makes a pretty cool reading but is actually just a case of very small sample space.
And by Veteran Players Group I am even pointing towards Mitch! Possibly one of the greatest bowlers of this generation- but that was in Tests and ODIs. In T20s he was bang average.
 
Its also interesting to note that among the 3 "hitters" you mentioned, only 1 (Symonds) averages a 4 or a 6 less than every 6 balls. (again in all T20s)
 
anant said:
Not specifically Symonds, but these veteran players group. Pointed to Symonds, because it highlights the 11 innings with 4 NOs only which makes a pretty cool reading but is actually just a case of very small sample space.
And by Veteran Players Group I am even pointing towards Mitch! Possibly one of the greatest bowlers of this generation- but that was in Tests and ODIs. In T20s he was bang average.
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Which of the "veteran players" have not played enough T20s to know their quality according to you?
 
anant said:
Its also interesting to note that among the 3 "hitters" you mentioned, only 1 (Symonds) averages a 4 or a 6 less than every 6 balls. (again in all T20s)
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Are you saying the likes of mcculum, KP, miller don't score quick enough?
 
Varun said:
Are you saying the likes of mcculum, KP, miller don't score quick enough?
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Weren't the 3 hitters Bravo, Symonds and Miller! If I'm not mistaken, its the boundaries that matter in the last few overs
 
Varun said:
Which of the "veteran players" have not played enough T20s to know their quality according to you?
Click to expand...
Symonds, Mitch, Smith. Quality players but the stats you have posted are based on 30 odd games. Let me give you an example.
Symonds 14 Games 168 S/R Avg 48, over 93 games, S/R reduces to 147 and average 32.4. I'm not saying that these stats aren't good, but the stats that you are using to judge the players are over too small a sample size.
Another example. Vettori 34 games economy 5.7, over 143 games it becomes 6.34, Still respectable but the difference that comes when you increase the sample size of the players is immense.
Mitch- 7.28 over 30 games to 7.78 over 79 games.
And thats exactly the point that is being raised. The players don't have T20 experience. Its like saying Rohit Sharma is a Test match legend as he averages 50+, but he has played only 10-15 tests. Or TFM is Utd's greatest ever defender
Similarly, the players you have listed are basically the players who never got the chance to prove themselves in T20s. They may have been good, they may have been bad.
 
Samid said:
Based on the flashy average and SR you have presented in the OP.
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Flashy avg and SR? Those are actual stats and as you presented the same for certain nations, I'm asking you the sample size and what those stats are for the other batters in the match up. Not sure what your reply is supposed to mean.
anant said:
Weren't the 3 hitters Bravo, Symonds and Miller! If I'm not mistaken, its the boundaries that matter in the last few overs
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How can mcculum and KP not be counted in any side they are in. Anyways, let's ignore them. Miller isn't a fast scorer?

Also please reply to this.
Varun said:
Which of the "veteran players" have not played enough T20s to know their quality according to you?
Click to expand...
 
anant said:
Symonds, Mitch, Smith. Quality players but the stats you have posted are based on 30 odd games. Let me give you an example.
Symonds 14 Games 168 S/R Avg 48, over 93 games, S/R reduces to 147 and average 32.4. I'm not saying that these stats aren't good, but the stats that you are using to judge the players are over too small a sample size.
Another example. Vettori 34 games economy 5.7, over 143 games it becomes 6.34, Still respectable but the difference that comes when you increase the sample size of the players is immense.
Mitch- 7.28 over 30 games to 7.78 over 79 games.
And thats exactly the point that is being raised. The players don't have T20 experience. Its like saying Rohit Sharma is a Test match legend as he averages 50+, but he has played only 10-15 tests. Or TFM is Utd's greatest ever defender
Similarly, the players you have listed are basically the players who never got the chance to prove themselves in T20s. They may have been good, they may have been bad.
Click to expand...

Symonds will face what, 20-25 balls coming in where he is? Based on your bigger sample size SR, he will score 5 less runs, yes? Vettori will concede 2.4 runs more. Mitch 2 runs more.

Is this all that you were trying to highlight when dissing on quality players like these?

Your post after that doesn't even make sense. I've not checked any of my players stats but just going by the first part of your post, they have played 93,143 and 79 T20s. Then you say they don't have enough T20 experience and compare them to Rohit Sharma playing 15 tests or TFM who has a couple of starts. How does it make sense? Again, you end by saying they never got a chance to prove themselves in T20s. So 93,143 and 79 matches isn't enough to prove themselves? Ok then.
 
Varun said:
Flashy avg and SR? Those are actual stats and as you presented the same for certain nations, I'm asking you the sample size and what those stats are for the other batters in the match up. Not sure what your reply is supposed to mean.
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You're asking me for sample sizes and I'm throwing the question right back at you. Symonds has played 11 innings with 4 not outs. Where were these 'sample sizes' when you were making the graph in OP?

That average and SR you have presented for Symonds is simply down to his sample size being incredibly low. Those numbers are not representative for Symonds T20 career.
 
Varun said:
How can mcculum and KP not be counted in any side they are in. Anyways, let's ignore them. Miller isn't a fast scorer?
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Its your write up that states "we have 3 quintessential T20 players in Symonds, Miller and Bravo. They will wreck havoc at the end with their incredible hitting". All I'm saying is he averages a 4 or a 6 every 6.24 deliveries in T20s, 6.755 in T20Is, which statistically isn't trademark "hitter". I mean the 3 players on an average hit a 4 or a 6 every 6.21 balls! Bravo at 7.16, Symonds 5.24. Not sure how those 3 who can't manage a 4 or a 6 every over hit Starc and Malinga!
 
Varun said:
Symonds will face what, 20-25 balls coming in where he is? Based on your bigger sample size SR, he will score 5 less runs, yes? Vettori will concede 2.4 runs more. Mitch 2 runs more.

Is this all that you were trying to highlight when dissing on quality players like these?

Your post after that doesn't even make sense. I've not checked any of my players stats but just going by the first part of your post, they have played 93,143 and 79 T20s. Then you say they don't have enough T20 experience and compare them to Rohit Sharma playing 15 tests or TFM who has a couple of starts. How does it make sense? Again, you end by saying they never got a chance to prove themselves in T20s. So 93,143 and 79 matches isn't enough to prove themselves? Ok then.
Click to expand...

Again its the write-up and as @Samid mentioned its the serious lack of sample space that was used to create some flashy looking stats which is a bit misleading. Symonds example was mentioned earlier.
They may have had great careers, but they didn't have great careers in T20s and thats what matters! Lets be honest, Symonds, Smith, Mitch are icons of the game but not T20s. And 100 T20s is a fair no. to be looking for especially when a player has retired!
 
Samid said:
You're asking me for sample sizes and I'm throwing the question right back at you. Symonds has played 11 innings with 4 not outs. Where were these 'sample sizes' when you were making the graph in OP?

That average and SR you have presented for Symonds is simply down to his sample size being incredibly low. Those numbers are not representative for Symonds T20 career.
Click to expand...
I simply put the stats from T20Is in the OP chart. If you think we shouldn't have included any stats at all, then that's fine, you are free to ignore them. Don't really know what else I was supposed to do?
 
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