Synth Draft: R1 - Sjor vs Oaencha

With players at their career peak, who would win?

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    19
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Physiocrat

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Sjor

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Oaencha

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Team Sjor

Squad so good i have both Pele and Maradona on the bench. Idea behind the team was to replicate Louis Van Gaal Ajax team but with different player profiles so this isnt a proper replica. Team will play the same formation and philosophy but will be executed differently. Movement, technical ability, selflessness, workrate, football brain are the ingredients I was looking for. The most beautiful thing about that Ajax team was that they could play any sort of football - great possession wise, could play short could play direct, suited to high press yet perfectly capable going to Bernabeu and putting a footballing masterclass in counter-attacking football.

Team Profile and Player Profiles

Starting with Rene "El Loco" Higuita. Most attractive keeper ever to played the game, playing in his natural role of a keeper sweeper, he has all the freedom he wants. Funny thing about him, if you take his 99/00 season he has better goal per game ratio then our striker at his peak:lol: Legend scored 11 goals in 20 games.

Back three of Blankenburg, Rijsbergen and Kohler. We have 2 stoppers combined with a sweeper. Both Blankenburg and Kohler excelled in back 3 formations while for Rijsbergen i dont know but he played both as a left sided and right sided CB and as a RB and when you take his style of play into consideration he is perfectly suited for a back three as he will have a lot of freedom to be agressive and attack the ball.

Defensive mid was a tricky position, needed to find one that fits to the philosophy both offensive and defensive wise while also being a good foil for our sweeper. Decided on Dunga, great destroyer that is good on the ball while in the same time being selfless enough to make a potentially great partnership with Blankenburg.

In midfield we have perfect tactical fit in Srecko Katanec who pretty much played that role for majority of his career. Next to him is the star of the team - Frank Rijkaard. Always being used as a DM but i wanted to use him b2b role because he is never used there in drafts and he was bloody brilliant in it.

On top of the "midfield diamond" we have hardworking Jan Ceulemans. Pace, power, technical ability and goals, should make a stunning partnership with Elkjaer up top all the while being a good addition to the midfield.

Right wing we have Michel, great both offensively and defensively, very good passing range as well as crossing ability. Can drop in midfield when needed and also adds goals to the team.
On the left we have the maverick from Glasgow, Eddie Gray. Hard working geniuses are a rare breed but he was one. He would be the one dropping back and helping the team defend while on the other side Lorimer would have a bit more freedom to stay up. Insane dribbling and playmaking ability.

Elkjaer up top, nobody can stretch defences like him and even in a team full of hard working players he will stand up in that segment. Tbf im doing him a disservice here as he was also a brilliant footballer with ball in his feet, didnt even need boots on his feet to score against GOATs.

Team Oeancha

Michel Preud'homme Goalkeeper
José Antonio Camacho Left Wing Back
Antoni Szymanowski Right Wing Back
Franco Baresi Libero
Miguel Angel Nadal Stopper
Alan Hansen Ball Playing Defender
América Gallego Ball Winner / Deep Playmaker
Sócrates Advanced Playmaker / Free Role
Vassilis Hatzipanagis Left Winger / Inside Forward
Johnny Rep Right Winger / Right Forward
Jürgen Klinsmann Poacher

Formation
A free flowing, attacking 5-4-1 / 5-2-3 hybrid. Very solid at the back, pace and skill on the wings, Socrates pulling the strings in the centre and the lethal Klinsmann upfront.

Defence

The sensational Preud'homme is in goal with his cat-like reflexes and shot stopping skills.

A formidable trio of Baresi, Hansen and Nadal in the centre. Baresi will play slightly deeper as a libero, taking turns with Hansen to push forward with the ball. Nadal is a stopper, providing cover at all times.

Camacho and Szymanowski are utilised as defense minded wing backs. Both are expected to focus on defensive duties but are allowed to link up with Hatzipanagis and Rep on the wing when the opportunity arises.

Midfield

Gallego is the all-action ball winner with light playmaking duties. He will charge into tackles, cut out passing lanes and provide cover for Socrates. Socrates is the key playmaker and has a free role, allowing him to work his magic.

Attack

Hatzipanagis is a majestic dribbler with exceptional technical ability. He will switch between a winger and inside forward, causing havoc down the left and delivering balls into the box. Rep has a similar role but will dribble less and provide more of a goal threat. He has free reign to shoot from range.

Jürgen Klinsmann is the focus point upfront. A fantastic finisher, capable of scoring memorable goals. He will be stationed in the area, ready to latch on to Hatzipanagis, Rep and Socrates' assists.

Lesser known players

Antoni Szymanowski
One of Poland's greatest ever defenders. 82 caps for the national side and he played in both the 1974 and 1977 World Cup. Here's a great little article on him...

http://www.worldsoccer.com/blogs/antoni-szymanowski-the-forgotten-man-of-polish-football-337930

Américo Gallego
73 caps for Argentina and a key part of the team that won the 1978 World Cup. Not a flashy player but very effective in his position.

Vasilis Hatzipanagis
A sensational talent and arguably the best Greek player ever. Contract laws prevented him from ever moving to a big team in Central Europe but his skills are without question.


[/SPOLIER]
 
good luck @Oaencha
Looking at this team i reckon my team should easily dominate the possession which means Socrates wont be in the game as much as he would like to be and with so little numbers in midfield Dunga can pretty much focus only on him.
Hansen i dont know if he ever played in a back 3 and if i had to play him there that would only be in the central area of that defence as a sweeper or a libero.

ps: game is long enough no worries, i also have to go now so wont be able to post before 17:00 :)
 
Ohh before i go just to post few videos of lesser known players:

Wim Rijsbergen


Eddie Gray

 
With only 1 striker, Wouldn't mind seeing Baresi slightly ahead of the other 2 CB's since he might be spending much more time there in this game than usual IMO.
 
Aesthetically both sides looks disjointed with so much space in midfield and attack. Sjor's side less so.

For Sjor's side I'd tuck in the wingers a bit as they seem glued to the line, whilst for Oaencha he has to push the wing backs up and the whole forward line a bit back otherwise it seems like it's long ball tactics to me.

It seems like neither side wants to take control of the game :)
 
Šjor Bepo said:
good luck @Oaencha
Looking at this team i reckon my team should easily dominate the possession which means Socrates wont be in the game as much as he would like to be and with so little numbers in midfield Dunga can pretty much focus only on him.
Hansen i dont know if he ever played in a back 3 and if i had to play him there that would only be in the central area of that defence as a sweeper or a libero.

ps: game is long enough no worries, i also have to go now so wont be able to post before 17:00 :)
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Hansen here is a ball playing defender and as mentioned in the write up he will take turns with Baresi pushing forward with the ball. So he is Libero-light in this line up.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Aesthetically both sides looks disjointed with so much space in midfield and attack. Sjor's side less so.

For Sjor's side I'd tuck in the wingers a bit as they seem glued to the line, whilst for Oaencha he has to push the wing backs up and the whole forward line a bit back otherwise it seems like it's long ball tactics to me.

It seems like neither side wants to take control of the game :)
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There's no long ball tactics here at all. Baresi and Hansen will both take turns to push forward with the ball, so essentially there will always be a player in front of the defence.

The wing backs will push forward and connect with the wingers.

Sócrates has plenty of space and will be covered by Gallego.
 
idmanager said:
With only 1 striker, Wouldn't mind seeing Baresi slightly ahead of the other 2 CB's since he might be spending much more time there in this game than usual IMO.
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As a libero that's exactly what he will be doing. He will push forward and often be ahead of the defence.
 
It's a weird match!

You have Rijkaard and Katanec who are both capable of dropping back as a extra CB playing ahead of Dunga who cannot! A 3 man defence + Higuita looks to be a invitation to disaster, but somehow I don't see Oaencha taking advantage of it. Amazing! Never seen anyone play 5 CBs in their team before :lol:

Baresi will handle Ceulemans and for all his benefits Elkjaer was not a prolific scorer. Michel faces off against Camaco and a stout D-line to support. I think Sjor will have lots of possession, but doesn't look likely to score.

Oaencha's midfield two looks as if their parents forgot about them in a fairground. Hatzipanagis should play tucked in to add more bodies centrally and drift wide as needed. Also Baresi should be ahead of the D-Line and not sweeping behind. They will not see much of the ball, but against a back 3, I think Vasily or Rep will create a moment of magic and win it for him.
 
Oaencha said:
There's no long ball tactics here at all. Baresi and Hansen will both take turns to push forward with the ball, so essentially there will always be a player in front of the defence.

The wing backs will push forward and connect with the wingers.

Sócrates has plenty of space and will be covered by Gallego.
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Yeah I know I mean, just looking by the formation.

In terms of actual personnel Hansen and Baresi seems a bit off to me. Nadal is someone who I really don't rate highly as a stopper or as a defender as a whole, especially when taking the cream of the crop of 2 generations 46-66.

With Baresi in that role 2 stoppers would be a lot better than Hansen IMO, and generally with Baresi in there you don't really need someone like Hansen to take the ball out of defence.

On @Šjor Bepo - he has to rotate Rijkaard and Dunga. Out of the two Rijkaard is a natural fit in the anchor position and Dunga would play in much more familiar set up with an anchor (like in 95 having Mauro Silva there).
 
Oaencha said:
As a libero that's exactly what he will be doing. He will push forward and often be ahead of the defence.
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Yes, but positioning on the starting lineup portrays where he would spend major amounts of time.
I don't think he would have too much of sweeping to do anyways against 1 striker.
The gaps there are huge and perhaps placing Baresi ahead of the CBs makes it look much more balanced.
 
idmanager said:
Yes, but positioning on the starting lineup portrays where he would spend major amounts of time.
I don't think he would have too much of sweeping to do anyways against 1 striker.
The gaps there are huge and perhaps placing Baresi ahead of the CBs makes it look much more balanced.
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The gaps really aren't that big. Hansen and Nadal are playing slightly higher than normal anyway and Baresi will be constantly on the move. Gallego will be dropping back a lot so that area between defence and midfield will always have someone there.
 
Enigma_87 said:
For Sjor's side I'd tuck in the wingers a bit as they seem glued to the line, whilst for Oaencha he has to push the wing backs up and the whole forward line a bit back otherwise it seems like it's long ball tactics to me.

It seems like neither side wants to take control of the game :)
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You cant do much with one formation picture and 2500 characters tbf.....depending on opposition and situation both wingers would drop back in midfield to keep number advantage but in this case they really dont need to do that, specially not as much that i have to bring that up in tactics post. There is a 4v2 in midfield even without them and one of this 2 is Socrates who probably never in his life played in a midfield two and if i dont count him as a midfielder its Gallego alone. Once i lost a draft match with midfield three of Schweinsteiger, Keane and Di Stefano against the midfield that had Dino fecking Baggio in it and the tactic was to only mark Di Stefano and leave Keane and Schweini alone because they cant hurt you. Even though i think thats the biggest brainfart ever written in drafts i can get over that but Gallego alone stopping a midfield diamond, there i draw the line tbh

Edgar Allan Pillow said:
It's a weird match!

You have Rijkaard and Katanec who are both capable of dropping back as a extra CB playing ahead of Dunga who cannot! A 3 man defence + Higuita looks to be a invitation to disaster, but somehow I don't see Oaencha taking advantage of it. Amazing! Never seen anyone play 5 CBs in their team before :lol:

Baresi will handle Ceulemans and for all his benefits Elkjaer was not a prolific scorer. Michel faces off against Camaco and a stout D-line to support. I think Sjor will have lots of possession, but doesn't look likely to score.

Oaencha's midfield two looks as if their parents forgot about them in a fairground. Hatzipanagis should play tucked in to add more bodies centrally and drift wide as needed. Also Baresi should be ahead of the D-Line and not sweeping behind. They will not see much of the ball, but against a back 3, I think Vasily or Rep will create a moment of magic and win it for him.
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As i said, its Van Gaal formation and philosophy but with different personnel which means that i would have other solutions. I dont want my DM dropping back because i dont have 2 CBs comfortable out wide so thats why i have Katanec as LCM who played fair share of his games as a leftback, so in situations where my defence is forming a back 4 we have Katanec as LB, Blankenburg and Kohler and CBs and Rijsbergen as RB.

There is enough creativity and goals in the team to break that defence, if Baresi focuses mainly on Ceulemans i reckon Elkjaer will be to much for Hansen and Nadal, with so much possession he will burn them for pace few times in the game + we have Rijkaard pushing up front from the middle, i cant see who can stop him on the run tbh.


I will be honest, never heard of that polish guy on rightback but they probably have zero wingbacks in their football history so he is most likely a balanced rightback rather then a wingback. For Camacho we know for sure he isnt a wingback so.....
 
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Enigma_87 said:
On @Šjor Bepo - he has to rotate Rijkaard and Dunga. Out of the two Rijkaard is a natural fit in the anchor position and Dunga would play in much more familiar set up with an anchor (like in 95 having Mauro Silva there).
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In 94 they played as double pivot, i mean of all players on the pitch Dunga(Makelele case is repeating:lol:) is the last i thought would be questioned as DM....feck id have him as DM in front of the back 4 let alone in front of the back 3 where he gets even more protection and freedom.
 
@Šjor Bepo

I have to correct you on Szymanowski. He is very much a wing back and a class one as well. There is pretty much no footage of him online but I watched plenty of him at the 74 and 78 World Cup. He was very fast, very good at defending and excellent getting forward.
 
And Elkjaer will in no way be too much for Nadal and Hansen; they would completely nullify him.
 
Oaencha said:
@Šjor Bepo

I have to correct you on Szymanowski. He is very much a wing back and a class one as well. There is pretty much no footage of him online but I watched plenty of him at the 74 and 78 World Cup. He was very fast, very good at defending and excellent getting forward.
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ok, as i said i dont know anything about him so will believe you :) Still reckon Gray has the upper hand in that duel though
 
From what I remember (70s Poland stuff), Szymanowski wasn't anything like a typical wingback. He was better defensively than offensively (played CB at times, iirc).

He was fast, though, and would get up the pitch to some extent and make himself available. But the latter would make him a «balanced» fullback at best - not someone you'd give an explicit wingback role because it clearly suits him.

Doesn't mean he'd be terrible at it, but I find the comment above (that he was a wingback or words to that effect) odd.
 
Just to clarify, as with all my draft teams this team isn't based on any team of the past. Apart from the last draft I like unorthodox formations and always try something different.

The 5-4-1 / 5-2-3 I'm using is flexible. Hansen and Baresi both like to push forward so Gallego isn't the only player covering DM. My attacking full backs / wingbacks will offer Hatzipanagis and Rep support so the formation is going to stretch during the match. The player's positions in the formation are in no way static.
 
Oaencha said:
Just to clarify, as with all my draft teams this team isn't based on any team of the past. Apart from the last draft I like unorthodox formations and always try something different.

The 5-4-1 / 5-2-3 I'm using is flexible. Hansen and Baresi both like to push forward so Gallego isn't the only player covering DM. My attacking full backs / wingbacks will offer Hatzipanagis and Rep support so the formation is going to stretch during the match. The player's positions in the formation are in no way static.
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i like the tactics tbh but dont think you have the right personnel. To pull it of IMO you need someone like Matthaus in place of Socrates who is btw a really odd inclusion. Someone who can contribute heavily in both phases of the game and someone who can bring the ball up if and when you dont have top tier ball carriers in wingback positions.
 
Well played @Šjor Bepo

This is 100% the last time I try and make things interesting with an unusual formation. I don't agree with some of the feedback but I appreciate people's imput. I'm just going to try something generic next time.
 
Oaencha said:
Well played @Šjor Bepo

This is 100% the last time I try and make things interesting with an unusual formation. I don't agree with some of the feedback but I appreciate people's imput. I'm just going to try something generic next time.
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Winning ain't everything. If you had fun with weird formations, then it counts as a success. Keep having fun.

Tbh, I've never heard of a 5-2-3 formation. Which team irl played like that?

Maybe you should have presented this a bit differently, like below...

Camacho and Szymanowski like half/side backs rather than wingbacks. Baresi seen helping in midfield, rather than sweeping behind. Gallego helping defensively with Hatzipanagis beefing up the middle. Socrates moving up to balance the midfield offensively when you have possession....

Your-teamAFASDFADS-formation-tactics.png




Also gives you a chance to post up... Always worth a watch :drool:

 
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@Oaencha

EAP makes a good point. The line up he showed looks a lot more functional and coherent than your line-up even though it was practically the same as you intended. Getting the visuals right really helps voters with what you intend
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Winning ain't everything. If you had fun with weird formations, then it counts as a success. Keep having fun.

Tbh, I've never heard of a 5-2-3 formation. Which team irl played like that?

Maybe you should have presented this a bit differently, like below...

Camacho and Szymanowski like half/side backs rather than wingbacks. Baresi seen helping in midfield, rather than sweeping behind. Gallego helping defensively with Hatzipanagis beefing up the middle. Socrates moving up to balance the midfield offensively when you have possession....

Your-teamAFASDFADS-formation-tactics.png
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Thank you for the cognizant reply. IMO the formation you posted looks too crowded but I appreciate the idea. The arrows on my formation explain where the players will move and alot of what you said (Gallego helping out with defence etc...) is mentioned in my write up. It's sad but I genuinely feel most people vote without reading the write up. Which begs the question; are the long write ups even worth it?
 
Oaencha said:
Thank you for the cognizant reply. IMO the formation you posted looks too crowded but I appreciate the idea. The arrows on my formation explain where the players will move and alot of what you said (Gallego helping out with defence etc...) is mentioned in my write up. It's sad but I genuinely feel most people vote without reading the write up. Which begs the question; are the long write ups even worth it?
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This is what I meant as well, mate. Keep doing what you are doing it's part of the fun.

From my experience formation pictures are the best way to represent what your intentions are and what part of the pitch will players cover.

For example I've fielded a couple of sweepers in the last draft and had to do separate formation graphics just like the one EAP posted above so I can show the libero movement and helping out the midfield as otherwise it looks lightweight.

You don't need that many arrows even to represent it. Think @Edgar Allan Pillow pushed your forward line a bit too deep, but apart from that he's 100% on the point what I meant initially. Something like this:

Your-teamAFASDFADS-formation-tactics.png
Oeancha-formation-tactics.png


compared to the OP it's basically the same, but the spaces across the pitch are a lot better spread.
 
Oaencha said:
Well played @Šjor Bepo

This is 100% the last time I try and make things interesting with an unusual formation. I don't agree with some of the feedback but I appreciate people's imput. I'm just going to try something generic next time.
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likewise, as for tactics....just do whats fun for you as edgar said, favorite drafts from myself are probably the ones where i lost in first rounds and favorite game was the one with @Annahnomoss where i lost as well :D
 
Oaencha said:
Which begs the question; are the long write ups even worth it?
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No. Nothing suggests they are in terms of winning votes.

My advice is to keep your OP brief. Limit it to basic player roles/briefs and overall strategy.

And make your formation pic as sexy as possible.

It's like politics: People - often stupidly - trust a guy in a nice suit over a scruffy looking fecker.

Experienced drafters know the value of making the formation pic easy on the eye, with names nicely spread out (giving the impression you cover/control as much of the pitch as possible), etc.
 
@Oaencha Another tip with formation graphics is putting the players full names in. It looks like they cover more of the pitch that way. I think I have the record when I put Rivaldo's full name on a team sheet - Rivaldo Vítor Borba Ferreira
 
Oaencha said:
Thank you for the cognizant reply. IMO the formation you posted looks too crowded but I appreciate the idea. The arrows on my formation explain where the players will move and alot of what you said (Gallego helping out with defence etc...) is mentioned in my write up. It's sad but I genuinely feel most people vote without reading the write up. Which begs the question; are the long write ups even worth it?
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Chesterlestreet said:
Experienced drafters know the value of making the formation pic easy on the eye, with names nicely spread out (giving the impression you cover/control as much of the pitch as possible), etc.
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Just understood why some wasted their time to specify the 1st name of the player! Does it really work? These drafts are definitely not serious :lol:

Also, @Enigma_87 likes to present his team like this:

 
Oaencha said:
Thank you for the cognizant reply. IMO the formation you posted looks too crowded but I appreciate the idea. The arrows on my formation explain where the players will move and alot of what you said (Gallego helping out with defence etc...) is mentioned in my write up. It's sad but I genuinely feel most people vote without reading the write up. Which begs the question; are the long write ups even worth it?
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Based on some of the comments in your draft game..... definitely.

I'm not saying your diagram was perfect (or not) but I got the gist of what would/could happen and my vote wouldn't have changed based on a diagram.
 
Ecstatic said:
Does it really work?
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Absolutely.

Unless the player is the father/uncle/great aunt of someone more famous, in which case you always opt for just the last name.

But - yes. I think it makes a difference. Some voters won't read much of what is posted, just look at the formations and decide how it'll play out. Obviously, even to them the sheer presentation won't be THE most important factor (they will look at which players are fielded), but people are suckers for anything that looks coherent, symmetrical, professional, etc.

And they will take note of any obvious discrepancy. If the formation pics seemingly illustrate that A has much more width than B, they will go with that impression unless it's modified (and it won't be if they don't bother to read much of what the manager has to say).
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Absolutely.

Unless the player is the father/uncle/great aunt of someone more famous, in which case you always opt for just the last name.

But - yes. I think it makes a difference. Some voters won't read much of what is posted, just look at the formations and decide how it'll play out. Obviously, even to them the sheer presentation won't be THE most important factor (they will look at which players are fielded), but people are suckers for anything that looks coherent, symmetrical, professional, etc.

And they will take note of any obvious discrepancy. If the formation pics seemingly illustrate that A has much more width than B, they will go with that impression unless it's modified (and it won't be if they don't bother to read much of what the manager has to say).
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Thanks for the asnwer
 
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