Surveillance Draft - R1- DavidG vs Joga Bonito

With players at peak, who would win?

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antohan

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-----------------------------------Team DavidG------------------------------------------------------------------------------Team Joga Bonito

TEAM DAVIDG

TACTICAL BACKGROUND:

I decided that I would merge some kind of "re-make" concept into this Billy No Mates draft and have opted for a slightly modified Zona Mista. The strategy is what team-building is all about, and ultimately the reason why well-drilled units with complimentary pieces prevail over those with a lack of chemistry where the emphasis has been placed on "names". One of the greatest strategies ever devised, I think I have the players to pull it off, and with a few relatively new faces for these drafts I look forward to justifying their inclusion.


LINE-UP

Portiere- Goalkeeper- Keylor Navas- No technical specifications for the system, but in goals we have a man who made Madristas not regret missing out on David De Gea. Champions league winner with many years of silverware to come.

Terzino Fluidificante- Wing-Back- Evra- Uncle Pat in his prime was something to behold on the left side, capable of covering most of it on his own he had the engine and offensive capabilities to cause havoc at one end, whilst being an incredibly competent defender who not many people got joy out of.

Difensore Central- Centre Back- Diego Godin- One of, if not the best centre back in the world, he can play alongside anyone and against any attacker and still be dominant. A true leader, largely responsible for the resurgence of Atletico Madrid.

Libero- Libero- Andres Escobar- Famous for the wrong reasons, Escobar was actually being lined up as a replacement for Franco Baresi prior to his death, which is as glowing endorsement as you can get for someones capabilities of playing this role. One wonders what might have been but for the tragedies of 1994.

Marcatore Puro- Defensive Stopper- Ivanovic- Responsible for looking after the inside and occasionally the outside channels. Having excelled at both centre back and right back, this position will be no problem for Ivanovic, particularly with the security of Godin and Escobar around him.

Mediano- Holding midfielder- David Albelda- Captain of the Valencia team that was the Atletico Madrid of the early 00's, Albelda is a 10/10 fit for this role. Excellent passing, interceptions and a world class reading of a game, he is the ideal player to play in front of the defence.

Centrocampista centrale- Box-to-box midfielder- Antonio Conte- One of juventus greatest ever midfielders famous for his stamina and determination, this role comes naturally to Conte. An accomplished box to box player who has played all over the midfield and is well capable of the spectacular.

Regista- Offensive playmaker- Mostovoi- No-one can play this role better than Platini did it. But for those of you who watched La liga when it first appeared on Sky, you will understand Mostovoi's suitability for this role. Blessed with wonderful technique, skill and vision, he was the complete midfielder who excelled offensively but was more than capable of tracking back. Top 1/2 Russian players post USSR, He was a joy to watch for Celta Vigo.

Ala Tornante- Workhorse winger- Salihamidzic- One of the admittedly most easily forgettable players in the last 20 years, one can be forgiven for not remembering just how much of a workhorse this guy was. Deployed all over the right side, he has the perfect skill-set for this role, and will be more than happy doing his fair share of tracking back. An absolute dream of a player to have in an squad.

Seconda Punta- Second striker- Bergkamp- Not much to say about him really. One of my all time favourite players, he played the second striker role to perfection and considering the service he provided Henry, It's mouthwatering to imagine the link-up play he would have with his strike partner in this side...

Prima Punta- First striker- Ronaldo. The best pure number 9 in history for me. Unstoppable at his peak, and working in conjunction with Bergkamp and a very diverse yet skillful midfield support cast, he is primed to be hugely effective in this set-up.


THOUGHTS ON THE OPPOSITION:

Doesn't really matter which way you look at it, Joga Doesn't have the defenders capable of coping with the Ronaldo and Bergkamp duo. Looking at his squad there are a fair amount of player's more comfortable centrally and they aren't exactly lightning quick, so I expect a tight midfield battle which will play into my hands as Salihamidzic and Evra will be able to slot in to make it a back 5 pretty quickly and with Albelda and Conte there to help ( and to some extent Mostovoi) It's going to be really hard to break down.

Am actually really interested to see what formation Joga goes for as he has the players to put together a pretty good zona mista himself.


TEAM JOGA

Tactics
The emphasis is on ball circulation, short crisp passing and fluidity. It's a 4-4-2/4-5-1 hybrid with the wide midfielders playing a key role. Everyone loves a good ol fashioned British 4-4-2 but this is different and strives to strike a fine balance between control and incisiveness.

The back line features players who are all comfortable on the ball, even the goalie - Neuer. The full backs will be allowed to support the attack, with ample cover from the wide midfielders and DM, but overlapping runs aren't an integral component to my system.

The midfield is where it is at with Xavi* being the crown jewel of the side. Deschamps offers great protection to the back line and provides the midfielders with the freedom to exhibit their creativity and fluidity - a handy player on the ball too, esp with the ball circulation. Seedorf and Nedved, are two complete packages who offer both incisiveness and tactical nous in abundance. They suit my tactics to a tee and would look to combine with Xavi on the ball with their astute passing and movement, offer support in the final third, solidify the midfield by tucking in and offer threat out wide occasionally.

Möller and van Persie are equally brilliant on the ball with their technique, creativity and link up play whilst being ruthless with their finishing. Their link-up play, off the ball movement, interchangability and ability to drag their markers around should be a treat for Xavi to work with, and the Wide Midfielders would cherish the openings and the link up ability that the deadly duo possess. RVP's line leading ability would come right to the fore with the creative cast (A̶l̶e̶x̶ ̶S̶o̶n̶g̶ Xavi's lofted balls→Van Persie :drool:) behind him.



XAVI
Make no mistake, the side is built around him with a complementary cast for the Spaniard to conduct his orchestra. Xavi in the 08-10 period was nothing short of amazing, with his incisiveness and ability to dominate the midfield. The man boasted nearly 50 assists during this period and was extremely incisive and capable of threading through balls like very few, all whilst boasting several decisive match winning moments (Euro 2008 POTT, assisting Torres's final winner and being the best player on the pitch, Messi's header and Pedro's opener in CL finals etc).



With the likes of Seedorf, Nedved, Möller and van Persie - all technically and creatively gifted nimble and fluid players - to dovetail with, it would take some doing to stop Xavi - someone with unrivalled consistency which truly defined his peak.

SUBS: Park, Rooney, Brown
 


This video shows Escobar in a deep defensive role, and showcases his comfort on the ball and ability to pick a pass. If you freeze frame just before his infamous own goal, he's quite noticably in a sort of sweeper position.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/2/andra-s-escobar-amatteroflifeanddeath.html

http://www.semana.com/international...-colombian-footballer-andres-escobar/104776-3

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/mar/25/world-cup-moments-andres-escobar-death

These articles ( All good reads ) all make reference to Escobar moving to AC milan had the tragedy not occurred, where he was viewed as the potential long term successor to Baresi. Given the strength of Milan at the time, its as good an endorsement as I can find for Escobar's suitability to the role i've given him.

Also, for anyone who hasn't watched it yet, watch the ESPN 30/30 documentary called " The two Escobar's", it's one of the finest hours of TV you'll watch.
 




These videos showcases Mostovoi's shooting ability and his knack of being in the right place at the right time. In the second one, there are some beautiful golazo's highlighting his close control in tight spaces, a few of them coming from the position he's playing in my team.



Celta absolutely destroy Real in the first 3 minutes of this video. The whole thing is an excellent representation of his abilities but if you only make it to 5 minutes you'll have seen him tracking back, picking the ball up deep, attacking the left channel, looking for balls in behind both in the air and on the ground, some tricks and flicks but what you wont see is him working in conjunction with a world class overlapping full-back, and in this team he has Evra to help support him when he drifts out to the left and it's a lethal combination.

He was one of the main reason's to watch La Liga back when it first started on Sky and he would absolutely excel in the modern 4-2-3-1 in any of the attacking midfield roles.
 


Man of the match display via Atletico, perfect demonstration of the defensive midfielder role



Another picture perfect DM display, showcases his ability to launch attacks from deep too.
 
Maybe it's cos I'm new to this but these seem like some crazy formations. The reverse Suzuki by davidG seems nice though. I like it
 
And no team with bergkamp in it can feature in a draft without this goal appearing;

 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Complicated teams at first glance.

Don't really get the tucked in back 3ish formation of DavidG. Should have been a flat 4 imo. More information on the unfamiliar names, perhaps?

Seedorf role needs some thinking upon.
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Flat 4 is boring. Don't look at them as tucked in, it's 3 capable centre halves with one dropping a bit deeper ala libero.

Think Chelsea's current 3-4-3 set up when Moses and Alonso are caught upfield, albelda plays the Kante role
 
I don't think jogas formation is complicated at all the only gripe I have with it is seedorfs role, it's not the best way to utilize him
 
DavidG said:
I don't think jogas formation is complicated at all the only gripe I have with it is seedorfs role, it's not the best way to utilize him
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How come? He was electrifying for Real Madrid in a similar role every time I saw him and I rate the young version of Seedorf close to the older one, albeit playing different positions and roles. It is a unique role so he is rarely used there in the drafts but he played that role in the 1997 Supercopa against a Barcelona with Figo/Rivaldo/Guardiola and won with 4-1 and got on the score sheet too. He could even play the same role but from the left side of midfield as well.

"Seedorf spent three seasons at Real Madrid from 1996 to 1999 and won La Liga in 1997 and the Champions League in 1998. He was named in the Spanish club's 'team of the century'"

Keep finding this statement but can't find the official team of the century for them, would like to see it.
 
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Salihamidzic, from Wikipedia;

During his career, Salihamidžić usually played as a right midfielder, right backor left back.He was a quick and energetic player with an extremely high work rate. He was also gifted with good crossing and passing abilities, which allowed him to create chances for his teammates.

He's perfect for the role in this squad.
 
Good luck @DavidG.

Voted for myself to see the score.

DavidG said:
I don't think jogas formation is complicated at all the only gripe I have with it is seedorfs role, it's not the best way to utilize him
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Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Seedorf role needs some thinking upon
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The side/wide midfielders were a critical component of what I was trying to execute and that's why I prioritized Seedorf and Nedved above all others, despite the former blocking a shit ton of players, I kid you not. I'd considered the likes of Boban, Schneider, Becks etc for the role but something always seemed amiss and Seedorf was perfect for it, imo.

Several sides have utilized a 4-4-2 or its tweaked variant and the Side/Wide Midfielders (from Boban-Donadoni; Perotta-Camoranesi; Silva-Iniesta to Koke-Turan) were absolutely key to the respective approach of their sides. Defensively, they had to know when to tuck in to solidify the midfield or track back to help the FBs. Offensively, they had to have the tactical nous to know when to roam to central areas, exchange positions with the other side midfielder/SS (see Silva-Iniesta for Spain 2008) for great fluidity. Seedorf and Nedved are as versatile as they come and both have the right mix of tact and chaos, to fulfill these demanding roles, whilst adding some additional goalscoring threat, physicality and industry on top of injecting fluidity, directness and some great cohesive and crisp play on the ball. Seedorf was absolutely immense in this exact role for Real in the CL final against Juve and has fulfilled this exact same role for Real several times.




Jupp Heynckes lined up his team with a more dynamic shape. It was the combination of 4-4-2 box and asymmetric 4-3-3. Clarence Seedorf, Raúl Gonzalez, Predrag Mijatovic, and Fernando Morientes were swapping and made the attacking movement became more unpredictable.

In passive situation (opponent’s long goal-kick, for example), Real was in 4-4-2 mode, with the sixes was flanked by Seedorf and Raúl. The difference was, Raúl and Seedorf formed a staggering wide-men shape. Seedorf positioned himself deeper than Raúl. Consequently, Roberto Carlos should be more spatial aware because the Brazilian needed to make sure there was enough cover on the space between him and Raúl.

In a settled defensive phase of open play, both Raúl and Seedorf helped the full backs defending the wide areas. How far the advanced wide-men dropped deep was depending on the progress of the opponent’s attack. There was different demand of defensive involvement between Raúl and Seedorf, as they were naturally different player, let alone were tasked with different hybrid role. Raúl was a striker-wide midfielder, whilst Seedorf was more to a wide-central midfielder.

Seedorf and Raúl moved forward vertically, with Seedorf was more gradually. Seedorf movement was ball progress-oriented whilst Raúl was more aggressive (PRECISELY WHAT I'D LIKE TO ACHIEVE WITH SEEDORF-NEDVED)

Seedorf was known to be a mobile one who had a very good stamina so he capable to cover huge area. As a midfielder, Seedorf also had the ability to provide a good pass. This arguably was one reason Heynckes pointed Seedorf as the player to move from flank to flank and the executor of the pass, as the last phase of the chance creation.

Fernando Hierro and Clerence Seedorf deserved for the man of the match nomination. Clarence Seedorf was one of the main elements of Real attacking progression as he often found to be the catalyst between the front line and the line behind. He moved from flank to flank to provide passes, create space, or recycle the ball
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Read the entire tactical analysis if you can, one of the best I've ever come across and actually made me watch the match again, focusing exclusively on Seedorf. Also covers a lot on how a 4-4-2 (off the ball at least) isn't always the tactical weakness as it's viewed on here, with the right approach/personnel that is (Capello's CL winning Milan, Heynckes CL winning Real, Italy's WC winning side, Spain's '08 Euro Champions, Simeone's Atleti etc).

https://ryantank100.wordpress.com/2015/08/03/juventus-0-1-real-uefa-champions-league-final-19971998/

Key thing is, Seedorf is playing as a wide/side midfielder and not as a winger or a wing-forward. It's a role he's proven and excelled in before too.

fPMJmJZ.jpg





Watch these games if you can

http://footballia.net/matches/real-madrid-atletico-de-madrid-957b368f-c54c-497a-9dd6-5bfe5b114d8b

http://footballia.net/matches/fc-barcelona-real-madrid-liga-1-division-1997-1998

http://footballia.net/matches/real-madrid-valencia-cf-liga-1-division-1999-2000

He is one of the most versatile and tactically accomplished players in the game, with his all encompassing playing style - crisp intuitive passing ability, tactical nous, physicality, technique, dribbling, two-footed allowing him to thrive in a wide midfield role or in a midfield duo alongside Redondo for Real, in a Christmas tree of sorts for Milan, being the ideal conduit between midfield and attack and of course in a diamond for LVG's Ajax, amongst various other set ups.

Whilst he is equally adept on the left too - against Thuram, Nedved & Zambrotta no less. It's a fairly long watch but features some great players with a great display from Seedorf.

 
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Just noticed jogas subs all played with each other :lol:
 
DavidG has a great side, esp Bergkamp-Ronaldo, with Godin, a rock at the back but I'd just about back Xavi and my midfield (11 CLs between 'em) to gain the stranglehold on this match and restrict supply to Bergkamp-Ronaldo, esp the former who has Deschamps to contend with.

I'd also argue that Nedved in particular in poised to have a good game here, with the support of Grosso and they could prove to be quite tough for the opponent’s wing of Ivanovic-Salihamidzic to handle.
 
Absolutely nothing wrong with Seedorf's role here. He has played in different variations of RCM/RM role most of his career - in Ajax, Madrid, Milan; and he definitely has the intelligence and physique to carry out this task. In fact, Nedved-Deschamps-Xavi-Seedorf is the first thing that caught my eye here, Xavi rarely gets his credit here as he is mostly shoehorned in people's teams. Here he is given the foundation to shine - and I think that he is the most likely MotM here.

Not to take anything from Ronaldo - Bergkamp and Mostovoy here. They'll cause trouble for Carvalho - Lucio, no doubt, the question is how often they will get the ball, with Xavi dominating the middle in his unique way.
 
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Here's a taste of Xavi at his imperious and incisive best.



4 assists against Real in the El Classico. His first touch is an absolute delight to watch and the way he always creates space with them is uncanny.

Let's not forget his masterclass against Germany in the 08 Euros where he slipped a lovely slide rule assist for Torres, created a carbon copy of that exact same ball for Torres in the second half, very nearly had another assist with an intuitive ball for Iniesta who hit the bar, before creating another gilt edged chance for Torres. For all of Xavi's unrivalled ability to dominate and control proceedings, he was immense when it came to creating chances (and on the big stages too, as his assists for Messi and Pedro in CL finals will testify).


DavidG sports a cohesive and a functional midfield here, but I can't not see Xavi having a good game here, which heavily limits the service and threat that his offense will be able to pose here, whilst my offence (esp Nedved and Möller) will thrive with Xavi of all people being the lynchpin of the side.
 
harms said:
Absolutely nothing wrong with Seedorf's role here. He has played in different variations of RCM/RM role most of his career - in Ajax, Madrid, Milan; and he definitely has the intelligence and physique to carry out this task. In fact, Nedved-Deschamps-Xavi-Seedorf is the first thing that caught my eye here, Xavi rarely gets his credit here as he is mostly shoehorned in people's teams. Here he is given the foundation to shine - and I think that he is the most likely MotM here.

Not to take anything from Ronaldo - Bergkamp and Mostovoy here. They'll cause trouble for Carvalho - Lucio, no doubt, the question is how often they will get the ball, with Xavi dominating the middle in his unique way.
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All my midfielders are pretty capable on the ball, and with the numbers behind the ball I can see us winning it back fairly regularly, and then you have Xavi contending with mostovoi and he's not exactly the best man for looking after smaller, quick skillful and agile players.

I think he has a good game here, I just think it's solid enough at the back to make sure that if I'm conceding, it's once or twice at best, whereas the opposite end you have the best duo of the draft supported by a box to box in conte, a workhorse in Salihamidzic, a roaming number 10 of sorts in mostovoi and an advancing Evra to mix it up on the left side.
 
harms said:
In fact, Nedved-Deschamps-Xavi-Seedorf is the first thing that caught my eye here, Xavi rarely gets his credit here as he is mostly shoehorned in people's teams. Here he is given the foundation to shine - and I think that he is the most likely MotM here.

Not to take anything from Ronaldo - Bergkamp and Mostovoy here. They'll cause trouble for Carvalho - Lucio, no doubt, the question is how often they will get the ball, with Xavi dominating the middle in his unique way.
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Cheers, was firm in my resolve to build the side around Xavi and I didn't 'just' want him to be part of a generic midfield set up.
 
DavidG said:
Flat 4 is boring. Don't look at them as tucked in, it's 3 capable centre halves with one dropping a bit deeper ala libero.
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Well the formation ain't making it no more interesting, that's for sure. With Conte being the more advanced midfielder and a compact Ivanovic, it looks like Nedved will have oodles of space to operate in and that's not a good thing, esp . I think Ivanovic should be a RB first with tucking in as necessary and not a CB moving wide. Minor difference, but I consider that significant. The Albelda-Conte midfield has a nice balance, but I don't really know anything about Mostovoi. From what I read, he doesn't come across as pacy enough to exploit Joga's defensive midfield.

As to Joga's team, for a 4-4-2'ish formation, Deschamps-Xavi may be considered a tad too static and lacking pace, esp in recovery situations. Tricky Bergkamp will have an big impact imo. Nedved-Moller-Seedorf will be juicy when they have the ball though. Though I like Deschamps and his creativity, I think a more quicker DM in the mould of Tardelli would be a more ideal partner.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Well the formation ain't making it no more interesting, that's for sure. With Conte being the more advanced midfielder and a compact Ivanovic, it looks like Nedved will have oodles of space to operate in and that's not a good thing, esp . I think Ivanovic should be a RB first with tucking in as necessary and not a CB moving wide. Minor difference, but I consider that significant. The Albelda-Conte midfield has a nice balance, but I don't really know anything about Mostovoi. From what I read, he doesn't come across as pacy enough to exploit Joga's defensive midfield.

As to Joga's team, for a 4-4-2'ish formation, Deschamps-Xavi may be considered a tad too static and lacking pace, esp in recovery situations. Tricky Bergkamp will have an big impact imo. Nedved-Moller-Seedorf will be juicy when they have the ball though. Though I like Deschamps and his creativity, I think a more quicker DM in the mould of Tardelli would be a more ideal partner.
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I made reference to it in the drafting that I was abandoning my original plans in favour of trying something and this is the outcome. I wasn't really caring who I faced, I was always going to set up zona Mista-esque because I think the players are a relatively honest remake of it. Veron and Ledley King were top picks for me but I abandoned them in favour of system suitability, as ivanovic is more comfortable in that role and I wanted someone comfortable covering the whole right channel which Salihamidzic most definitely was. He's a better, and much more likeable version of dirk Kuyt who is also tailor made for that role.
 
This from a conversation with harms during the drafting, hope he doesn't mind me posting it, and he should be seen as somewhat of an authority on Russians.

"Mostovoi was better, I think it's close between him and Arshavin as the best post-USSR Russian player. A whole package - and what separated him from Arshavin was his athleticism and professionalism, even though he was absolutely brilliant technically, and equally capable of a goal or an assist. He was an attacking midfielder but he could (and did at some point) play deeper, even as a defensive midfielder, due to an outstanding workrate. His free-kicks were also quite good"
 
Unorthodox stuff here, Seedorf on the wing, Xavi in a 4-4-2, Ivanovic not in a flat back four with Evra the other full back is weird too.

Nedved vs Ivanovic seems key here.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
As to Joga's team, for a 4-4-2'ish formation, Deschamps-Xavi may be considered a tad too static and lacking pace, esp in recovery situations. Nedved-Moller-Seedorf will be juicy when they have the ball though. Though I like Deschamps and his creativity, I think a more quicker DM in the mould of Tardelli would be a more ideal partner.
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It's not really an expansive 4-4-2 with two dynamic B2Bs bursting forward ala Keane-Scholes, and two flying wingers etc, which would require some 'legs' and pace in the midfield for covering. Just to reiterate, this is not a classic midfield 4 with the aim of keeping the pitch as expansive and open as possible, with the passing and the play being extremely direct and vertical. My set up aims to keep it more compact, narrower and relies on interchanging, short crisp passing, triangles (with Möller and RVP being custom-picked for their link up play) and fluid on the ball movement. That's not to say it's tiki taka but more 08 Spain-esque with a fine balance on emphasis between possession control and incisiveness (with regards to both passing and esp dribbling with Nedved, Seedorf and Möller on the pitch). So off the ball, it won't be Deschamps isolated as a DM but he'd have the support of Xavi and esp Seedorf and Nedved as wide midfielders capable of tucking in - as the Dutchman did brilliantly for Real and Nedved countless times throughout his career.

Let's not forget the quality of Deschamps too for that matter. The only captain after Beckenbauer (and Casillas) to lift the World Cup, Euros and the Champions League. He's arguably the best remaining DM in the pool after Desailly's been knocked out, and he's never been the type to be exposed to a speedy AM, his reading of the game and positioning more than endured that. Nor is he playing in a reckless system.
 
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DavidG said:
This from a conversation with harms during the drafting, hope he doesn't mind me posting it, and he should be seen as somewhat of an authority on Russians.

"Mostovoi was better, I think it's close between him and Arshavin as the best post-USSR Russian player. A whole package - and what separated him from Arshavin was his athleticism and professionalism, even though he was absolutely brilliant technically, and equally capable of a goal or an assist. He was an attacking midfielder but he could (and did at some point) play deeper, even as a defensive midfielder, due to an outstanding workrate. His free-kicks were also quite good"
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Yeah, sure. Nice to see him featuring in one of those drafts.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Unorthodox stuff here, Seedorf on the wing, Xavi in a 4-4-2,
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Seedorf is not playing as a winger but as a wide midfielder - a role which he has played and thrived in. Nor is Xavi in an alien set-up. He won the Player of the Tournament for Spain in their victorious 2008 Euros campaign in a 4-4-2/4-5-1. So it isn't really unorthodox stuff imo.
 
DavidG said:
This from a conversation with harms during the drafting, hope he doesn't mind me posting it, and he should be seen as somewhat of an authority on Russians.

"Mostovoi was better, I think it's close between him and Arshavin as the best post-USSR Russian player. A whole package - and what separated him from Arshavin was his athleticism and professionalism, even though he was absolutely brilliant technically, and equally capable of a goal or an assist. He was an attacking midfielder but he could (and did at some point) play deeper, even as a defensive midfielder, due to an outstanding workrate. His free-kicks were also quite good"
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That's understating Mostovoi. Significantly better than Arshavin, you would watch Celta Vigo games just to watch Mostovoi, while I'd never watch 90 minutes of football to see Arshavin.

Also, Seedorf is a great fit there. My favourite incarnation actually, less experienced and disciplined, but his sheer talent never shone brighter.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Unorthodox stuff here, Seedorf on the wing, Xavi in a 4-4-2, Ivanovic not in a flat back four with Evra the other full back is weird too.

Nedved vs Ivanovic seems key here.
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Unlikely to be isolated, Salihamidzic will be tracking back and Albelda when the ball is on that side will naturally gravitate over there
 
Always had a lot of time for Salihamidzic. Clever player, understated sort of bastard but with enough punch when it counted.
 
And, yeah - Mostovoi. Blast from the past, that one. Don't think he's entered my mind for years. But it's nice to see him featured.
 
Let's make a case for Ronaldo to be man of the match, not that he should really need any introduction but he's capable of winning games on his own and has one of the most perfect second strikers just behind, he'll have a field day particularly against the slow carvalho.

Theres not much between the teams so you have to look for individual brilliance and match decisiveness, and I think that Ronaldo and bergkamp duo edges me more. Either of them will easily challenge Xavi for MOM given the set ups they are facing. Someone has to deal with mostovoi and the advancing conte, so deschamps and Xavi are tied up leaving bergkamp and Ronaldo pretty much 2v2 on carvalho and lucio, with lucio being the one more likely to step out, he'll struggle against bergkamp one on one and Ronaldo will obliterate carvalho.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Always had a lot of time for Salihamidzic. Clever player, understated sort of bastard but with enough punch when it counted.
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He was one of my first signings on champ man 99/00 and 00/01, he was a lb/LM/cm/RB/rm in the game, so versatile and just one of those players managers love to have in their team.
 
Difficult game this to decide. I absolutely love Joga's midfield (although Seedorf is on the right). On the other hand Bergkamp-Ronaldo is a juicy combo and the latter will have joy against Carvalho/Lucio.

It's a high scoring and very entertaining game this.

Key clashes are Nedved/Ivanovic, Ronaldo/Bergkamp vs Lucio/Carvalho and Albelda/Moller.

I can see Joga's team dictating the play and controlling the midfield but David's team is really dangerous on counters.
 
DavidG said:
He was one of my first signings on champ man 99/00 and 00/01, he was a lb/LM/cm/RB/rm in the game, so versatile and just one of those players managers love to have in their team.
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Ha, yes - games, eh? Never was into that, other than real old school ones and then, much later, pro evo when that became a thing. Never played any of those manager type games post C64. Old, you know.

But I did watch him play in real life, which has to count for something. And he was versatile. Could play allover the park, practically. We should get @Balu in on this, he must have an informed opinion on 'midzic.
 
DavidG said:
Someone has to deal with mostovoi and the advancing conte, so deschamps and Xavi are tied up leaving bergkamp and Ronaldo pretty much 2v2 on carvalho and lucio, with lucio being the one more likely to step out, he'll struggle against bergkamp one on one and Ronaldo will obliterate carvalho.
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Seedorf and Nedved will actively be part of the 'midfield battle' which is one of the prime differences between a standard 4-2-3-1 with wing forwards who are positioned further up field, and a midfield of 4 with tactically astute and industrious wide midfielders such as Seedorf and Nedved. So you'd have to wrestle back possession from my side, break through the compact midfield unit (which is synchronous in both offensive and defensive phases) and break through the best holding midfielder remaining in the draft to ensure a 2v2. Easier said than done.

Defensively it's not about individual battles with my midfield and it's more about remaining compact and utilising the space astutely defensively, with both Xavi and Deschamps being masterful at this in the middle of the pitch. Xavi in particular immense with his positioning off the ball, cutting off passing lanes and shepherding players to dead ends or forcing an uncomfortable pass etc. Not much needs to be said of Deschamps defensive ability but he truly was an expert at snuffing out fires and nipping off and defusing dangerous situations before they could develop. Esp on the counter where his shielding of the defense was excellent. Whilst Nedved and Seedorf were impressive physical specimens, with their graft and tactical discipline always being a godsend to their sides defensively.

So yes whilst there is always the chance of Ronaldo being isolated against my centre back duo, there is an even greater chance of Möller exploiting the space left in your midfield, with your midfielders trying to get a hold on Xavi, Nedved finding himself isolated against Ivanovic with Salihamidzic having to keep an eye on Grosso and Benarrivo potentially tipping the right flank in my favor against Evra with Seedorf in tandem.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Well the formation ain't making it no more interesting, that's for sure. With Conte being the more advanced midfielder and a compact Ivanovic, it looks like Nedved will have oodles of space to operate in and that's not a good thing, esp . I think Ivanovic should be a RB first with tucking in as necessary and not a CB moving wide. Minor difference, but I consider that significant. The Albelda-Conte midfield has a nice balance, but I don't really know anything about Mostovoi. From what I read, he doesn't come across as pacy enough to exploit Joga's defensive midfield.

As to Joga's team, for a 4-4-2'ish formation, Deschamps-Xavi may be considered a tad too static and lacking pace, esp in recovery situations. Tricky Bergkamp will have an big impact imo. Nedved-Moller-Seedorf will be juicy when they have the ball though. Though I like Deschamps and his creativity, I think a more quicker DM in the mould of Tardelli would be a more ideal partner.
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We must have watched a different Deschamps ;). I found him boring and crab-like on the ball, but he was masterful at suffocating the opposition's creative players. He's an excellent foil for Xavi here.

Great job by both managers here so far.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
We must have watched a different Deschamps ;). I found him boring and crab-like on the ball, but he was masterful at suffocating the opposition's creative players. He's an excellent foil for Xavi here.

Great job by both managers here so far.
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Aye, I needed a DM who was great defensively and was also a fairly handy player on the ball without being too flashy. Deschamps seemed the ideal fit for me with Cambiasso/Mauro Silva being others whom I considered too. I didn't need a Busquets there but someone who could aid the side in circulating the ball and being a reliable short passer of the ball (with a plethora of options available on the ball in a midfield four and of course, a defense which is comfortable on the ball).

Not that he couldn't thread a through ball when the occasion called for it, but he'd largely be a cog in the side's passing machinery.

 
Pat_Mustard said:
We must have watched a different Deschamps ;).
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Was thinking that too. Unless «decidedly conservative» is the new «creative» I don't quite see it.

Fine player, obviously, one of the best of his ilk. But said ilk hardly screams Mozart.
 
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