Have just read the thread about Stretford End Flags (SEF) and some of the stuff posted by people on there, FredTheREd especially is nothing short of slanderous.
Stretford End Flags (SEF) was set up in August in an attempt to replace the missing banners on the Stretford End. This was done after it basically looked poor against Debreceum and we didnt want this space turning into advertising. As individuals, we actually contributed to the intial collections for the Stretford End Flags and did not agree and received no consultation about their removal, as many of the contributors didnt (Infact no records of who donated/contributed were ever kept).
Stretford End Flags is made up of 5 match going fans, who have since been joined by 2 other fans (A web designer and a banner firm owner). Stretford End Flags, is not as you put it "Tufty", he is just one of 7 people involved.
Following the SEF set-up, MUFC released a statement calling for fans to submit banner designs and banners. This release by MUFC sprung us into action quicker than we intended, as we did not want to see club banners and "Anytown" St Georges crosses on this space.
The grpup sent an initial e-mail to Karen Shotbolt and Phil Townsend who allowed us to co-ordinate banners on the condition that designs would be passed by the club.
Details of our aims were put on rednews website and following this we were aslked by a United fan with a web company, if he could provide us with a website. This was done by him free of charge. We also received contact by a United fan with a banner making firm, who would do the banners for cost and has since provided a couple free of charge.
Stretford End Flags does not work with the club in any way.
The first banner design was sent to the club to see if it was OK (The We'll Never Die banner), this was passed by the club. Since then, no other designs have had pre-approval. The only contact the club has with MUFC is simply by dropping off the banners with the safety officer, as well as providing him with the fire safety certificates.
These certificates and the clubs insistance on them, caused the club not to allow any banners up for the City home game.
The club even offered to refund the cost of the "City, Blue nose day banner", but SEF refused this offer, as this banner was donated free of charge by the manufacturer.
Whilst SEF does not have any involvement or direct links with MUFC, its only inevitable that the club will look to promote our aims, as we are seeking to improve the atmosphere in Old Trafford. Our aims affect the club and the supporters. Whilst they have promoted our website with links from the official site, SEF have turned down appearances on MUTV as its not within the aims of the group.
The flag nights for Euro games was the idea of SEF, mainly due to all the advertising on the other tiers being covered by UEFA draping and allowing banners to be put up on other areas of the ground (The Reason the Keane banner was on the Scoreboard End for the Villareal game). Whilst this idea was supported by the club, it was all the idea of SEF.
SEF had made the Georgie Best banner, this was taken to West Ham, where their club stewards took it onto the edge of the pitch. This banner was dropped off at Old Trafford on the Monday to be put on the Stretford End.
On the Tuesday the group received an e-mail off the safety officer asking if it could be used as part of the on-pitch tribute, to which SEF said yes.
Later that day, the safety officer again conatcted SEF to see if Tufty and Fergus would attend the game as representatives of the fans and stand on the pitch with the banner. Tufty and Fergus declined this invitation and after consultation with the others, decided to give the opportunity to anyone who had donated to SEF. As a result 2 fans stood on the pitch, no mention was given that they were from SEF or that SEF had made the Georgie best banner.
SEF has found many people helpful. To date we have only paid for one banner, that was a result of another banner firm being run by reds, who discounted the price form £475 to approx £329 (Exact costs on homepage of website), other costs cover the hosting of the website server, approx £60 per year, although most of the website cost was covered by the DVD trial scheme, which will also fund the groups PO box when set up (Currently using Rednews PO BOX, which Barney kindly donated short term use of).
The groups aims are to get other things in place to improve the Old Trafford atmosphere. Just beacuse we are looking at getting card murals etc in place, this does not mean that we work with the club. The only involvement MUFC would have in this, is letting us in the ground to set this up.
The same way they allow the fanzines to sell outside OT, doesnt mean the fanzines work with MUFC.
As for some of the comments in the other thread about Tufty, most of them are Urban myths and twisted facts. Its easy to spread rumours on internet sites without checking out the facts.
For the record, Tufty helped arrange both "Not for Sale" marches at Old Trafford last season and also took a "Not for Sale" banner to many Home/Away/Europe United games last season.
He has never supported Leeds, is not a Scouser (Ok, he lives in Runcorn, but that is not part of Merseyside or Liverpool) and attended long before his dads firm had an executive box. Tufty is a season ticket holder, attends all home and away games and nearly all in Europe.
He may have challenged Shareholders United on some issues, but thats no reason to be banned by their site (Easier to ban people than answer their questions). He informs me that he never attempted to be part of FCUM, but did send some advice by e-mail during their set up (Tufty had previously worked as commercial manager for 18 months at Runcorn FC when they were in the Conference).
Tufty is just one person involved in SEF and any of his views on SU etc do not reflect the rest of the group, he is entitled to his opinion as is anyone else.
I hope this has cleared up a few issues, any other questions can be asked on the SEF forum at www.stretfordendflags.com
(As for the anti-Glazer banners being made, do you really think the club would allow them to be put up? And, if they were put up, how long do youthink they would last?).
If you dont support SEF and dont want to donate towards them then fine, but there is a large number of people who still attend the games who do want banners etc in the ground and for Old Trafford to have some atmosphere. The donations we receive just help to achieve some of that.
Stretford End Flags (SEF) was set up in August in an attempt to replace the missing banners on the Stretford End. This was done after it basically looked poor against Debreceum and we didnt want this space turning into advertising. As individuals, we actually contributed to the intial collections for the Stretford End Flags and did not agree and received no consultation about their removal, as many of the contributors didnt (Infact no records of who donated/contributed were ever kept).
Stretford End Flags is made up of 5 match going fans, who have since been joined by 2 other fans (A web designer and a banner firm owner). Stretford End Flags, is not as you put it "Tufty", he is just one of 7 people involved.
Following the SEF set-up, MUFC released a statement calling for fans to submit banner designs and banners. This release by MUFC sprung us into action quicker than we intended, as we did not want to see club banners and "Anytown" St Georges crosses on this space.
The grpup sent an initial e-mail to Karen Shotbolt and Phil Townsend who allowed us to co-ordinate banners on the condition that designs would be passed by the club.
Details of our aims were put on rednews website and following this we were aslked by a United fan with a web company, if he could provide us with a website. This was done by him free of charge. We also received contact by a United fan with a banner making firm, who would do the banners for cost and has since provided a couple free of charge.
Stretford End Flags does not work with the club in any way.
The first banner design was sent to the club to see if it was OK (The We'll Never Die banner), this was passed by the club. Since then, no other designs have had pre-approval. The only contact the club has with MUFC is simply by dropping off the banners with the safety officer, as well as providing him with the fire safety certificates.
These certificates and the clubs insistance on them, caused the club not to allow any banners up for the City home game.
The club even offered to refund the cost of the "City, Blue nose day banner", but SEF refused this offer, as this banner was donated free of charge by the manufacturer.
Whilst SEF does not have any involvement or direct links with MUFC, its only inevitable that the club will look to promote our aims, as we are seeking to improve the atmosphere in Old Trafford. Our aims affect the club and the supporters. Whilst they have promoted our website with links from the official site, SEF have turned down appearances on MUTV as its not within the aims of the group.
The flag nights for Euro games was the idea of SEF, mainly due to all the advertising on the other tiers being covered by UEFA draping and allowing banners to be put up on other areas of the ground (The Reason the Keane banner was on the Scoreboard End for the Villareal game). Whilst this idea was supported by the club, it was all the idea of SEF.
SEF had made the Georgie Best banner, this was taken to West Ham, where their club stewards took it onto the edge of the pitch. This banner was dropped off at Old Trafford on the Monday to be put on the Stretford End.
On the Tuesday the group received an e-mail off the safety officer asking if it could be used as part of the on-pitch tribute, to which SEF said yes.
Later that day, the safety officer again conatcted SEF to see if Tufty and Fergus would attend the game as representatives of the fans and stand on the pitch with the banner. Tufty and Fergus declined this invitation and after consultation with the others, decided to give the opportunity to anyone who had donated to SEF. As a result 2 fans stood on the pitch, no mention was given that they were from SEF or that SEF had made the Georgie best banner.
SEF has found many people helpful. To date we have only paid for one banner, that was a result of another banner firm being run by reds, who discounted the price form £475 to approx £329 (Exact costs on homepage of website), other costs cover the hosting of the website server, approx £60 per year, although most of the website cost was covered by the DVD trial scheme, which will also fund the groups PO box when set up (Currently using Rednews PO BOX, which Barney kindly donated short term use of).
The groups aims are to get other things in place to improve the Old Trafford atmosphere. Just beacuse we are looking at getting card murals etc in place, this does not mean that we work with the club. The only involvement MUFC would have in this, is letting us in the ground to set this up.
The same way they allow the fanzines to sell outside OT, doesnt mean the fanzines work with MUFC.
As for some of the comments in the other thread about Tufty, most of them are Urban myths and twisted facts. Its easy to spread rumours on internet sites without checking out the facts.
For the record, Tufty helped arrange both "Not for Sale" marches at Old Trafford last season and also took a "Not for Sale" banner to many Home/Away/Europe United games last season.
He has never supported Leeds, is not a Scouser (Ok, he lives in Runcorn, but that is not part of Merseyside or Liverpool) and attended long before his dads firm had an executive box. Tufty is a season ticket holder, attends all home and away games and nearly all in Europe.
He may have challenged Shareholders United on some issues, but thats no reason to be banned by their site (Easier to ban people than answer their questions). He informs me that he never attempted to be part of FCUM, but did send some advice by e-mail during their set up (Tufty had previously worked as commercial manager for 18 months at Runcorn FC when they were in the Conference).
Tufty is just one person involved in SEF and any of his views on SU etc do not reflect the rest of the group, he is entitled to his opinion as is anyone else.
I hope this has cleared up a few issues, any other questions can be asked on the SEF forum at www.stretfordendflags.com
(As for the anti-Glazer banners being made, do you really think the club would allow them to be put up? And, if they were put up, how long do youthink they would last?).
If you dont support SEF and dont want to donate towards them then fine, but there is a large number of people who still attend the games who do want banners etc in the ground and for Old Trafford to have some atmosphere. The donations we receive just help to achieve some of that.
@ GUBU. 