Sorin move may be on again

wythykid

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While other rumours will go off slowly, this one still going on and on. I strongly believe Sorin will end up somewhere else other than Lazio. Hopefully he'll be at OT. He will solve our defense and 4th striker problems.
 
Originally posted by kkcbl:
<strong>

How's that so with the striker bit, Lion?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, Sorin can play as left back or left midfield and push Giggs upfront to partner Ruud. Personally, I would like to have a new 4th striker but don't think that will happen in short term.
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Escudes desire to play at OT is much stronger, so I still think he will push the deal through, but if Silvestre is still unhappy at LB at United, we should ship him off to Juve and get Escude and Sorin for a cool 10m ! ;)
 
Sorin would give us great versitility on the left side. He would make an ideal addition, imo.
 
i cant recall his defensive work in the world cup, i remember him going down the wing, looked pretty good, but can anyone tell me what kind of a defender is he? would it be a step up from sivestre ? bearing in mind we probably wouldnt buy both if we were looking at a striker as well. In my onion that is. wouldnt want to upset anybody would we? touchy bunch you lot you know.
 
Originally posted by fortyseven:
<strong>What onion? :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>

I have no idea but it must be pretty huge given that we are meant to look for a striker lurking inside it. :eek:
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can anyone tell me what kind of a defender is he? <hr></blockquote>

He's the kind of defender who jets off to SA for a week to play for his country, and suffers from the jet-leg on his return. The same goes for Veron, but in his case I can't wait for the next Argentina game
;)
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...or maybe we are looking for a midget to play alongside RVN. <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />
 
Originally posted by holyland red:
<strong>He's the kind of defender who jets off to SA for a week to play for his country, and suffers from the jet-leg on his return. The same goes for Veron, but in his case I can't wait for the next Argentina game
;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

So you would hate having any non-EU player at OT then. Unless they retire from int'l football that is.
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Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>...or maybe we are looking for a midget to play alongside RVN. <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

St Michael ? After all SAF did say everyone wants to join us.... ;)
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Giggs as a fourth striker is a joke. He is one of the worst finishers I've ever seen, percentage wise - even Andy Cole was better....
 
I read an interesting debate in another thread regarding Andy Cole being a "true red" or not.
Personally, I don't think an Argie will ever be a "true red", and NO, it is not because of his passport colour. Not that Escude is a local boy, but he seems to be more enthusiastic about playing at OT.
Perhaps I'm being naive, but I want in the club players who think that they have reached the greatest place on earth to play football. Veron doesn't think so, but "true red" Scholesy does.
Now, the point I made about the cross atlantic flights is valid, regardless of my personal views I've just stated, and they don't include all non-EU players. It's the non-european footy federations that are problematic.
I'd love to see the non-EU Shevchenko play alongside Ruud or Ole
 
Originally posted by holyland red:
<strong>Personally, I don't think an Argie will ever be a "true red", and NO, it is not because of his passport colour.
...It's the non-european footy federations that are problematic.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Fine, non-EU or non-European, you get my point that it is feckloads of players! I do agree it would be hard to get an Argie to be a TRUE red. The issue is, does it REALLY matter? If we got Crespo (to name a linked Argie) and he scores 30+ goals for us, will you give a toss how truly red he is?

I can tell you Sorin did a great job for Cruzeiro, they fecking love him there because he did the business and ran his heart out for the team. But then, the Cruzeiro boss could have wondered, will an Argie ever be a true blue? The answer would have been no.

BTW, jetlag doesn't seem to stop non-European players being successful all over Europe. Mmmmm.
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Sorin is a horse on the pitch. I cant recall a game where he seemed affected by jet-lag. Plus from Brazil to Argentina or any place in South America there isnt much distance or time difference...so jet lag does not apply to Juanpi. Whoever said that is an idiot. Will an Argie ever be a true red? Who gives a shit...the game is about winning trophies and making money nowadays. And let me tell you, and any Argie player will tell you the same,we are already born with a club in our hearts and thats the only one that matters...everything else is business.
 
Originally posted by Pipo:
<strong>Plus from Brazil to Argentina or any place in South America there isnt much distance or time difference...so jet lag does not apply to Juanpi. Whoever said that is an idiot. </strong><hr></blockquote>

No one said that, they were talking about jet-lag from SAM to Europe <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />

On all the one club in the heart rubbish, I think many Argentinian players would disagree with you.
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The issue is, does it REALLY matter? If we got Crespo (to name a linked Argie) and he scores 30+ goals for us, will you give a toss how truly red he is?
<hr></blockquote>

I think it DOES matter! forget the "true red" title, it's the commitment that I find lacking in some of the SA mercenaries. I am disgusted by players who play for one club, while talking about their desire to play elsewhere (even if it is their agents who do the talking).
Their successs in europe is debateable- Italian clubs, full of SA imports, have failed miserably in recent years.

I wouldn't mind Crespo scoring 30+ a season for us, but what are the odds on that happening. The last time he scored that many was in a league in which even Forlan managed a few...

;)
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Originally posted by holyland red:
<strong>Perhaps I'm being naive, but I want in the club players who think that they have reached the greatest place on earth to play football. Veron doesn't think so, but "true red" Scholesy does.</strong><hr></blockquote>Hold the f'kin phone here a sec.

Is this the same true red Scholesy who refused to play in the League Cup last season?

I think some of the people here have this romantic version of being a true red. Sure, there are players that would bleed for the club, I'm not arguing that point; Seba has stated recently he loves being a United player and wants to atone for his woeful season and also wants to repay Fergie for his support. I've never heard Scholesy say words to that effect after his sub-par season. He may have of course, but I didn't hear or read them.

I love Scholesy, don't get me wrong, but some of you think that just because a player comes from somewhere else, his convictions and desire are less than the local lads.

Was Schmikes less devoted than Phizza, Eric less than Nicky, Keano less than Giggsy and for that matter Fergie less than Kiddo?

In this day and age, for the majority of the pro's, it's about the money and tbh, why shouldn't it be?

Do you think Bex or Giggsy would still be United players if we were wallowing in mid table throughout the 90's? Possibly but I doubt it.

It's easy to be loyal to an employer that can pay you more than any other employer!

Go on then, I'm ready for the tirade...
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Ok, so it's not the battle of Britain, and we're not talking about a bunch of sleepless RAF pilots, but either local or not Scholes, Keane, Butt, Giggs and the Nevills grew up knowing that nothing is bigger than MUFC, and are thankful for everyday they are employed by the club.

Of course they wouldn't give up the money, as they are the reason this football club is getting it in the first place.

The remark about Becks and Giggsy is a bit unfair, as if we were in midtable this very forum would have been less busy. On top of that players like Bryan Robson refused to be lured to Italy despite the huge cash involved because they were TRUE REDS.

You know some of the local boys could have earned more money abroad (at least up until last season, with all the financial problems in european football). Would you turn down a double salary by a competing employer...? I guess some of our boys don't care just about money...they've reached a point where they have enough of it


Eric was a unique character, but apart from him our best imports have been Schmeiks and OGS.I think the best imports to the EPL are european, with the real bargains coming from Scandinavia.
 
Originally posted by holyland red:
<strong>it's the commitment that I find lacking in some of the SA mercenaries. I am disgusted by players who play for one club, while talking about their desire to play elsewhere (even if it is their agents who do the talking).
</strong><hr></blockquote>

So you mean no European players do that. You mean players in the Italian league (foreign or not) don't keep changing teams every year. I am not going to go into the Figo's and Anelka's (how many non-Europeans gave Chelsea the rent boy nickname?).

But then, you see no one wanting to leave Real. Roberto Carlos is very happy there BTW. As TTR just said, it is easy to want to stick to a top club which can afford the highest wages and keep you playing at the highest level.

The only different factor with SAM players is they are already away from home. If home is Brazil, who cares if you are in Italy or Spain? They are more detached from their local environment as a result but it's not a question of being a mercenary.

Take any United player and you will see he is on great wages, playing at the highest level and at home, why move to some foreign environment for the same money? It doesn't pay off.

You seem to be under the illusion that these guys would stick with us if we got relegated or we didn't agree to their wage demands. They wouldn't!
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Originally posted by holyland red:
<strong>as if we were in midtable this very forum would have been less busy.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It would. Although there would be a lot more scousers around.

<strong>
You know some of the local boys could have earned more money abroad (at least up until last season, with all the financial problems in european football). Would you turn down a double salary by a competing employer...? I guess some of our boys don't care just about money...they've reached a point where they have enough of it
</strong><hr></blockquote>

You just explained it. They are at home, they have enough money and play for a top club. Why change?

<strong>
Eric was a unique character, but apart from him our best imports have been Schmeiks and OGS.I think the best imports to the EPL are european, with the real bargains coming from Scandinavia.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Probably because the money is good, the league is competitive and the environment is not as unfamiliar culture and weather-wise.
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The only different factor with SAM players is they are already away from home. If home is Brazil, who cares if you are in Italy or Spain? They are more detached from their local environment as a result but it's not a question of being a mercenary. <hr></blockquote>

you have avalid point here, but it doesn't contradict mine. For all I care, the SA players can switch clubs for all the right reasons as long as my club is not involved.
Can it be down to coincidence that none of them has really made it in the EPL.
The thread began with the Sorin story so I referred to SA, but Chelsea is an example of the best example of the football mercenary trend not confined to one continent or another.
Commitment is about tradition, and ther's no english football tradition in france, Italy or Spain. On top of that, Chelsea are a joke so they got 2nd rate continental players.
Apart from Eric, who was a unique case of a genius, our best imports (Schmeiks & OGS) have been from countries of great english football tradition (TV etc.). No wonder these palyers were/are United "bled for our cause"
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It's just about 3AM, and we're getting nowhere, so maybe I'll change my mind later in the weekend.
For the time being, I'll just go to bed so I can get a few beers before the greedy lads in red take on the rent boys in blue...
;)
 
Originally posted by holyland red:
<strong>On top of that players like Bryan Robson refused to be lured to Italy despite the huge cash involved because they were TRUE REDS.

You know some of the local boys could have earned more money abroad </strong><hr></blockquote>Seriously though, how many 'British Isles' players have made a big success of playing abroad?

John Charles, Gary Lineker, Liam Brady?...

Even the great Ian Rush struggled when he went to Serie A.

Anyway, why leave United? Biggest club in the world, CL every year, all their friends live near by, they're playing with their best mates on the pitch, huge notoriety in the area etc. etc... Too many reasons to stay tbh.

I'm not questioning their loyalty, merely suggesting it might not be as strong as some think.

I could be wrong.
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Originally posted by holyland red:
<strong>you have avalid point here, but it doesn't contradict mine. For all I care, the SA players can switch clubs for all the right reasons as long as my club is not involved.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

It doesn't contradict yours, I know. I'm just explaining why they might seem as greater mercenaries.

Basically, they are professionals, the same as any other player wherever they come from. For a professional football player there are three aspects to consider (priority varies):

1) Club's success, playing at the highest level, CL, etc.
2) Money (and taxes! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> )
3) Location (family/mates, culture, weather, language...)

SAM players have 3 pretty much removed so they look for 1 and 2 and get tagged as mercenaries. Our players have all, why move?

<strong>Can it be down to coincidence that none of them has really made it in the EPL.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Even away from SAM already, culture and weather are the most different (but then, German football is packed with Brazilians!) so that explains why so few actually made it to the EPL at all - as both players and managers take this into account.

How many high profile SAM players have had the chance to make it in the EPL? That might explain your "coincidence". Within their limitations, Juninho, Ardiles (wooooow!) and Poyet have had as much impact as you could expect from them.

Personally, I think Sorin can do well with us.

<strong>
Commitment is about tradition, and ther's no english football tradition in france, Italy or Spain. On top of that, Chelsea are a joke so they got 2nd rate continental players.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Arsenal seem to be just fine. The trick is in your second sentence: "Chelsea are a joke". The Chelsea foreign legion are already away from home and their club is a joke so you can only keep them there by paying more, which they couldn't afford.
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Originally posted by True Treble Reds:
<strong>Even the great Ian Rush struggled when he went to Serie A.</strong><hr></blockquote>

"It was like being in a foreign country". That's how out of sorts he was.

<strong>I'm not questioning their loyalty, merely suggesting it might not be as strong as some think.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed, loyalty still exists despite being rare. I just don't like this whole Veron-is-a-foreign-mercenary-and-not-a-true-red tripe we get all the time. It was sad to see Keano say how some players gloated as his poor performances covered their asses.

All is not well.
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None of my opinions is anti-SAM for nationallity reasons. I enjoy watching argie football on sunday nights (our time), love the atmosphere and commentators (mad Marcello!).

Seriously though, how many 'British Isles' players have made a big success of playing abroad? <hr></blockquote>

That only strengthens my argument. If cultural differences occur and have such an impact, signing a foreign player must be considered as a last resort.

...they're playing with their best mates on the pitch <hr></blockquote>

what are the odds of Sorin and Keano being best mates...( :) )? that should also be considered. Players like Bridges/Finnan could mix better with the other lads, so there is another issue to consider before making a move.

...I could be wrong. <hr></blockquote>

Yes, we both don't exactly know their level of commitment, but I would like to think that a child that kicked a ball against a red-brick wall and grew up sticking Shoot/Match magazine Bryan Robson posters on his bedroom walls appreciates more playing for MUFC than any SAM import (again, without blaming SAM's)
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I'm just explaining why they might seem as greater mercenaries.
<hr></blockquote>
Sorry if you are personally offended by the word mercenaries, Antohan. Pros are after as much money as they can get- aren't we all...?

BUT, the 3rd point you mentioned is significant, and it's not that I want to convict SAM for lacking it. I'm just saying that it is too impotant to give up those ingredients in a key player in your squad.

We are not playing some fantasy football here. Our club is located in Englad. The last I heard it was pretty much rainy, the majority of people there speak english (at least until they opened the channel tunnel) and ASADO is not a common practice in Lancashire. Therefore, these should be considered when making a new signing.

Personally, I think Sorin can do well with us.
<hr></blockquote>

You must have seen a lot more of him, but my comments were general, and not aimed at him. Speaking of him, and given the fact you can give up on your "ingredient 3", do you think he'll be a significantly better addition to the squad in comparison with Bridges, for example?

Arsenal seem to be just fine. <hr></blockquote>

THe Arse is not a good example, as they are a french team, so their "imports" feel at home. If you follow their example you better suggest to SAF to sign all of Sorin's mates... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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Originally posted by holyland red:
<strong>

THe Arse is not a good example, as they are a french team, so their "imports" feel at home. If you follow their example you better suggest to SAF to sign all of Sorin's mates... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
What, like Veron, Crespo and Burdisso? ;)
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<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />


Crespo is touted as the next Shadow Spurs striker!
The competion for places there is intense, with Rivaldo and Morientes already occupying 2.
 
Originally posted by holyland red:
<strong>You must have seen a lot more of him, but my comments were general, and not aimed at him. Speaking of him, and given the fact you can give up on your "ingredient 3", do you think he'll be a significantly better addition to the squad in comparison with Bridges, for example?</strong><hr></blockquote>

On your other points, we agree. I was never trying to make a point of HAVING to sign foreign, I just think we need to consider our options and not just dismiss them as mercenaries or whatever based on one disappointing experience (so far!).

I do think many of the issues we have brought up ARE relevant when considering a player. Of course they would apply on Bridges vs. Sorin, they all go FOR Bridges. Now, you still have to consider whether Bridges could ever be the player Sorin is and their availability.

Given the Lazio money situation Sorin looks like a realistic possibility and I would be well happy to see him join us (have huge respect for the guy on and off the pitch). Maybe Bridges is a better option long term but not one we seem to have now or with a greater immediate impact (an aspect I would certainly consider at LB).
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Now, you still have to consider whether Bridges could ever be the player Sorin is and their availability.
<hr></blockquote>

SAF wanders around with a box of matches...and he can set fire at St. Mary's just as he did with Rio.
;)
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