Silvestre vs Rio

  • Thread starter Keano's Mental Demons
  • Start date

Keano's Mental Demons

Guest
When Silvestre signed, was he bought as a centre back or left back?

The guy is obviously a centre back and as he is better than Rio, should hold his place alongside Wes Brown.

How much do you reckon United would get for Rio in today's market?

I would seriously think about flogging him if a decent offer came in because there are plenty of centre-halves out there who would offer a better ROI as cover for Wes and Silv which is all Rio is good for.

I also believe O'Shea has potential to become one of the best left-backs in the game and should be allowed the chance to prove it.

Anyone agree?
 
no

why do we need to sell rio

id rather have as many good defenders as possible, money in uniteds bank means nothing to me

quality throughout the squad is more important
 
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>When Silvestre signed, was he bought as a centre back or left back?

The guy is obviously a centre back </strong><hr></blockquote>

But when he makes his long runs and centers from the left for a striker...He's good as a LB too, although he does prefer the CB position. I must say that he has surprised me this year.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Fergiesarmy:
<strong>no

why do we need to sell rio

id rather have as many good defenders as possible, money in uniteds bank means nothing to me

quality throughout the squad is more important</strong><hr></blockquote>

Obviously you don't need to sell Rio, but I think it'd be good business.

Mexes would cost a fraction of what you could sell Rio for and he would be just as adequate cover.
Click to expand...
 
its a dumb question really

1) we bought rio for the long term as kenyon stated we could get 10 years out of the guy thats why we paid so much for him

2) in todays market we would be lucky to get half back thats like buying shares and flogging them when they are down.
 
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>Anyone agree?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree that Brown and Silvestre looked absolute class together at centre back, and O'Shea looks very very promising when he plays as a fullback (whatever the side, left or right). However, Silvestre was bought as a fullback.

Also, why should we sell Rio? Why can't we have a defence that includes Rio, Brown, O'Shea, and Silvestre, wherever they play? The great thing about the last three (last two in particular) is that they can play as both centre and fullbacks.

Brown however is different class as a centreback, total class. He's had his knocks both injury wise and the jibes about the own goals, but he's coming on again. Hopefully he can have a few good years injury free now, as he really deserves it. I've always said that he is better than Ferdinand, but Ferdinand was always at crap clubs, and thus got his chance to shine, then pushed into the England squad. Brown on the other hand was here at United and had to warm the bench most of the time, not to mention those injuries :(

Brown is better than Rio! :)

That said however, they will probably end up as the England CB partnership, and Rio has also has his knocks this season which hasn't helped in settling him in. Give the lad time, he's a very god CB, he just needs a bit of maturity in the mental/concentration sense.

Shame about Silvestre though. feck it, play Brown and Silvestre at CB, stick Rio on the bench for a year or two, put O'Shea at leftback, buy a good young fullback that can play both left and right, then we're sorted. Oh, bye bye Blanc, please become a defence coach for us, and sell that cnut May! ;)
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Fergiesarmy:
<strong>its a dumb question really

1) we bought rio for the long term as kenyon stated we could get 10 years out of the guy thats why we paid so much for him

2) in todays market we would be lucky to get half back thats like buying shares and flogging them when they are down.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Kenyon paid £30 million for a player that he wanted to play at the back for 10 years.

But how can you justify playing him at all when you have better players in his position?

True, you would be lucky to get half what you paid but you knew that when he put pen to paper. That's why you had a clear run because no-one else could afford his fee.

I'm not suggesting United shouldn't have bought him; nobody knew how good Silvestre would turn out.

In the interests of football, I would have a rethink and build your team around Brown and Silvestre.

If that means cutting your losses on Rio, maybe it's worth it in the long run because Rio's value would only decrease as he wouldn't be playing internationals anymore.

Can you see my point?
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

I agree that Brown and Silvestre looked absolute class together at centre back, and O'Shea looks very very promising when he plays as a fullback (whatever the side, left or right). However, Silvestre was bought as a fullback.

Also, why should we sell Rio? Why can't we have a defence that includes Rio, Brown, O'Shea, and Silvestre, wherever they play? The great thing about the last three (last two in particular) is that they can play as both centre and fullbacks.

Brown however is different class as a centreback, total class. He's had his knocks both injury wise and the jibes about the own goals, but he's coming on again. Hopefully he can have a few good years injury free now, as he really deserves it. I've always said that he is better than Ferdinand, but Ferdinand was always at crap clubs, and thus got his chance to shine, then pushed into the England squad. Brown on the other hand was here at United and had to warm the bench most of the time, not to mention those injuries :(

Brown is better than Rio! :)

That said however, they will probably end up as the England CB partnership, and Rio has also has his knocks this season which hasn't helped in settling him in. Give the lad time, he's a very god CB, he just needs a bit of maturity in the mental/concentration sense.

Shame about Silvestre though. feck it, play Brown and Silvestre at CB, stick Rio on the bench for a year or two, put O'Shea at leftback, buy a good young fullback that can play both left and right, then we're sorted. Oh, bye bye Blanc, please become a defence coach for us, and sell that cnut May! ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmm. Yeah maybe I'm being a bit hasty. Rio probably deserves more time.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>

Kenyon paid £30 million for a player that he wanted to play at the back for 10 years.

But how can you justify playing him at all when you have better players in his position?

True, you would be lucky to get half what you paid but you knew that when he put pen to paper. That's why you had a clear run because no-one else could afford his fee.

I'm not suggesting United shouldn't have bought him; nobody knew how good Silvestre would turn out.

In the interests of football, I would have a rethink and build your team around Brown and Silvestre.

If that means cutting your losses on Rio, maybe it's worth it in the long run because Rio's value would only decrease as he wouldn't be playing internationals anymore.

Can you see my point?</strong><hr></blockquote>

We still need to focus on the attack. If the choice was between Silvestre for left wing (not unheard of) and for centre back I would stick him out on the left wing. He can provide some competition and may even be a replacement for Giggs.

Don't forget also that Silvestre's main asset is his pace. Rio's reading of the game is better, so is his skill on the ball. When we play European teams with less emphasis on pace, I think Rio would be a better partner for Brown than Silvestre.

I think we're seeing an interesting idea here. Imagine 4 defenders (Rio, Wes, Mik and John) each capable of playing anywhere across the defence, switching positions as needed to counter any team. :D

Not there yet I know. At the moment only John O'Shea can play anywhere, but it would be great if we had all 4 of them doing the same. Watch out Arsenal...
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by spinoza:
<strong>

We still need to focus on the attack. If the choice was between Silvestre for left wing (not unheard of) and for centre back I would stick him out on the left wing. He can provide some competition and may even be a replacement for Giggs.

Don't forget also that Silvestre's main asset is his pace. Rio's reading of the game is better, so is his skill on the ball. When we play European teams with less emphasis on pace, I think Rio would be a better partner for Brown than Silvestre.

I think we're seeing an interesting idea here. Imagine 4 defenders (Rio, Wes, Mik and John) each capable of playing anywhere across the defence, switching positions as needed to counter any team. :D

Not there yet I know. At the moment only John O'Shea can play anywhere, but it would be great if we had all 4 of them doing the same. Watch out Arsenal...</strong><hr></blockquote>

The great thing mate is their ages, it's crazy when you think of how much talent there is across that back line and how old they all are. We are very very very lucky to have such a four IMO. :D
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by spinoza:
<strong>

We still need to focus on the attack. If the choice was between Silvestre for left wing (not unheard of) and for centre back I would stick him out on the left wing. He can provide some competition and may even be a replacement for Giggs.

Don't forget also that Silvestre's main asset is his pace. Rio's reading of the game is better, so is his skill on the ball. When we play European teams with less emphasis on pace, I think Rio would be a better partner for Brown than Silvestre.

I think we're seeing an interesting idea here. Imagine 4 defenders (Rio, Wes, Mik and John) each capable of playing anywhere across the defence, switching positions as needed to counter any team. :D

Not there yet I know. At the moment only John O'Shea can play anywhere, but it would be great if we had all 4 of them doing the same. Watch out Arsenal...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Okay, so if Rio stays you have more rotational flexibility, fair point.

I'm not sure about rotating the back four though. To me, the back-four is a unit where everyone has a job to do and knows what that job is. Tinkering just confuses matters and makes mistakes more likely.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>

Okay, so if Rio stays you have more rotational flexibility, fair point.

I'm not sure about rotating the back four though. To me, the back-four is a unit where everyone has a job to do and knows what that job is. Tinkering just confuses matters and makes mistakes more likely.</strong><hr></blockquote>

O'Shea-Wes-Rio-Micky, a terrific back four for the future. That's no problem about that. Agree with spinoza's post. Silverstre's attack from the left is a great weapon for us which is too wasteful if we don't use it. Rio is England's best defender in his generation. Now he is playing not more than 50% of his ability. When he gradually regain his fitness and confidence, he will not be worse than any other defender in England.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

O'Shea-Wes-Rio-Micky, a terrific back four for the future. That's no problem about that. Agree with spinoza's post. Silverstre's attack from the left is a great weapon for us which is too wasteful if we don't use it. Rio is England's best defender in his generation. Now he is playing not more than 50% of his ability. When he gradually regain his fitness and confidence, he will not be worse than any other defender in England.</strong><hr></blockquote>

How old is Gary Neville?
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>

How old is Gary Neville?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think he's 28. His experience will still come handy in the next 3 or 4 years, but he will certainly feel more and more pressure in keeping his position from now on.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>

Obviously you don't need to sell Rio, but I think it'd be good business.

Mexes would cost a fraction of what you could sell Rio for and he would be just as adequate cover.</strong><hr></blockquote>

All wrong there mate.

We'd get about 15 million for Rio and there aren't that many potential buyers. Mexes has a host of admirers and he could spark a bidding war. Besides, Rio is English and knows the team, one of the best defenders in Europe and all.

Mind your own business. ;)
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>

Okay, so if Rio stays you have more rotational flexibility, fair point.

I'm not sure about rotating the back four though. To me, the back-four is a unit where everyone has a job to do and knows what that job is. Tinkering just confuses matters and makes mistakes more likely.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Tinkering wins us matches, our Champions League success against Basel a case in point.

If the back four becomes as flexible as I hope it will be, it will be vastly more effective than just a one-trick back four, which most teams currently have. It's the way of the future, IMO.
Click to expand...
 
Silvestre has improved leaps & bounds more than anybody ever expected. But still once Rio has completely settled my preffered CB pairing would be him and Wes Brown. In my opinion Silvestre is just as good now as LB as well and if Wes or Rio do ever get injusred we always have good cover!
 
Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

O'Shea-Wes-Rio-Micky, a terrific back four for the future. That's no problem about that. Agree with spinoza's post. Silverstre's attack from the left is a great weapon for us which is too wasteful if we don't use it. Rio is England's best defender in his generation. Now he is playing not more than 50% of his ability. When he gradually regain his fitness and confidence, he will not be worse than any other defender in England.</strong><hr></blockquote>

When Rio has finally attained his complete match fitness and settled fully - he is without a doubt the best CB in the WORLD! The world cup was proof of that!
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Gazza:
<strong>

All wrong there mate.

We'd get about 15 million for Rio and there aren't that many potential buyers. Mexes has a host of admirers and he could spark a bidding war. Besides, Rio is English and knows the team, one of the best defenders in Europe and all.

Mind your own business. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

The reason why there aren't any potential buyers is because Rio isn't available.

My point is that it is a pointless luxury having a £30 million player sat on the bench. But to me, that is all he's good for, quality defender or not.

Don't get me wrong, in time he'll probably prove himself just as worthy of the position as Brown and Silvestre. But what if he doesn't?

Shoehorning Rio into the side is just hindering O'Shea who can make left-back his own. Silvestre likes centre-half and is brilliant there so let him play there.

By the same token, I would consider flogging Dudek because he's no good to anyone unless he's playing first team football.
Click to expand...
 
This is a staggering thread.
Have you got such short memories.
Last season we had serious injuries to FIVE centre-backs, and were in a real crisis.
We cannot get rid os any of our young first-team defenders, its just too risky.
I'd agree that Wes and Mickey (or 'tweetie' as he's known) are our best CB pairing at the monent.But with the number of games we're likely to play this season - 70 ( 38 epl, 19 cl, 7 fac, 6 worthy) - we need a big squad. We cannot play our best team in every game.
The only limit is the wage bill, and I wouldn't want Utd to start selling players just to save a few bob - that's something that other teams do (eg leeds).
Keep em all to end of season.
 
i think this is marvelous :) we should be thinking and debating these things ffs :) what this thread says lucius is just what you are saying. this time last year we were a laughing stock at the back. now the final punchlime being tweetie's emergence as a credible centre back (memories, people) - does anyone not give any credit here to old larry white and the role he has coincidentally played? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
 
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>

The reason why there aren't any potential buyers is because Rio isn't available.

My point is that it is a pointless luxury having a £30 million player sat on the bench. But to me, that is all he's good for, quality defender or not.

Don't get me wrong, in time he'll probably prove himself just as worthy of the position as Brown and Silvestre. But what if he doesn't?

Shoehorning Rio into the side is just hindering O'Shea who can make left-back his own. Silvestre likes centre-half and is brilliant there so let him play there.

By the same token, I would consider flogging Dudek because he's no good to anyone unless he's playing first team football.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You keep missing the point. A back four of Rio, Mik, Wes and John is the United back four of the future. Versatility is the key.

We've paid 30m for a quality centre back, true. However his detractors ignore the fact that he is among the best ball playing defenders in the world. If memory serves, he played full back for West Ham and he could do so for United. If the price of his development into a truly awesome defender in a couple of years is a few matches on the bench this season, then so be it.

I'm willing to suffer the apparent waste of 30m sitting on the bench if it helps his development. He may not play at centre back, so he can play at full back or sweeper. I don't think we can afford to have defenders that play in just one position anymore. Rio has the potential to do it (along with the rest of our young guns :D ).
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by spinoza:
<strong>I don't think we can afford to have defenders that play in just one position anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why not? You want a central partnership, a left-back and a right-back. It's good that your back-four is so versatile so that they can cover each other but rotating them needlessly is asking for trouble.

To me, most successful teams have a constant central-defence partnership unless you can give me an example of one that doesn't.

I saw enough of Brown-Silvestre playing together to decide that that partnership should be allowed to develop as your defensive bedrock for years to come.

I accept that Rio may yet prove me wrong. He does have class.
Click to expand...
 
Give the guy a chance to settle down for god sake. He is a 24 year old trying to give his best in one of the most tormented and filled with pressure defense in the world and his injuries havent helped much.

During the recent years we had protected the Nevilles (so inconsistent and raw) Blanc's (seriously lacking of pace) and May's( did he ever played?)blunders so for god sake let us give a bit of time for a geniune talent to settle dowm
 
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>

Why not? You want a central partnership, a left-back and a right-back. It's good that your back-four is so versatile so that they can cover each other but rotating them needlessly is asking for trouble.

To me, most successful teams have a constant central-defence partnership unless you can give me an example of one that doesn't.

I saw enough of Brown-Silvestre playing together to decide that that partnership should be allowed to develop as your defensive bedrock for years to come.

I accept that Rio may yet prove me wrong. He does have class.</strong><hr></blockquote>

As can be seen with virtually every established centre back partnership, every pairing has weaknesses. Opposing attacks can exploit these weaknesses, though it may take time to suss them out.

A versatile back four can switch halfway through a match to frustrate opponents. Basel match a case in point.

This is a new idea which hasn't been tried before. Time will tell if it works. But I'm hopeful and excited. :D
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by spinoza:
<strong>

As can be seen with virtually every established centre back partnership, every pairing has weaknesses. Opposing attacks can exploit these weaknesses, though it may take time to suss them out.

A versatile back four can switch halfway through a match to frustrate opponents. Basel match a case in point.

This is a new idea which hasn't been tried before. Time will tell if it works. But I'm hopeful and excited. :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

It is an original one. Hmm. Maybe it is the way forward.

'The Complete Defender' project. :)
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.