Sheep Draft R1 - Tuppet v Cal?

What do you think the score will be?

  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .

Gio

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TEAM TUPPET
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tuppet-formation-tactics.png

Tactics:

My team is set up in a 4-3-3.

Attack:
Bergkemp is playing in a false number 9 role, supported on either side by V.Mazzolla and Wynalda. Bergkemp with his fantastic technical ability and creativity would look to create space for Mazzolla who is playing in his favored inside left role. While Bergkemp is known for being a great second striker, he was a pretty great front man on his own accord as well. Bergkamp was the top scorer in the Eredivisie from 1991 to 1993, and was voted Dutch Footballer of the Year in 1992 and 1993. In total, he scored 122 goals in 239 games for his hometown club.

From the left side, V.Mazzolla packs plenty of goals as well, one of the greatest player of all time and Top scorer in Serie A in one season. I have more about him posted here - Valentino Mazzolla . On the right side I have one of the biggest legend in US football history - Eric Wynalda. Wynalda retired as the all time scoring record holder for USA, and was selected in the team of tournament of Copa America 1995. Wynalda would be playing as Right wing forward for my team, looking to get into space that Bergkemp has created for him.

Midfield:
In midfield I have IMO the best player on the pitch running the show - Alfredo Di Stefano. There is not much which you guys don't know about this legend, so I'll just post these two quotes from Sir Bobby Charlton -
Alfredo di Stéfano is maybe the greatest player I have ever seen. I watched him in a match when Manchester United played against Real in the semi-final of the European Cup in Madrid the year before the accident. In those days, there was no substitutes' bench; if you weren't playing, you were in the stand. I felt like I was looking down on what looked like a Subbuteo table—I was that high up—but I couldn't take my eyes off this midfield player and I thought, Who on earth is that?

He ran the whole show and had the ball almost all the time. I used to dream of that, and I used to hate it when anyone else got it. They beat us 3-1 and he dictated the whole game. I'd never seen anything like it before—someone who influenced the entire match. Everything went through him. The goalkeeper gave it to him, the full backs were giving it to him, the midfield players were linking up with him and the forwards were looking for him.

And there was Gento playing alongside and Di Stefano just timed his passes perfectly for him. Gento ran so fast you couldn't get him offside. And I was just sitting there, watching, thinking it was the best thing I had ever seen.

But I had been forewarned a bit by Matt Busby, the manager at the time, because he had been across and seen them play a match in Nice before the semi—in those days it wasn't easy to do that—and, when he came back, we asked him what they were like, but he didn't want to tell us. And I understood why he didn't when I saw them. I think he knew that, if he had said they were the best players he'd ever seen, it would have been all over for us before we'd started.

And this was when Di Stefano was thirty. What must he have been like in his youth?
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He was simply the most intelligent football player I ever saw. If I had one player to choose, out of all of them, to save my life, he'd be the one.
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Di Stefano is the primary playmaker in my team, his all action style means that both Roth and Brnovic would always have an outlet for passing, as he would drop deep to receive the ball. This would allow Roth and Brnovic focus mostly on shielding the defense. Franz Roth is a Bayern Munich legend, winning 3 Europeans cup and is voted in their hall of fame. Roth is known for his physicality and was nicknamed "The bull". He also had an uncanny knack for performing in big games as he scored in 2 consecutive European cup finals.

Defense:
Well I don't have many things to say about my central defense, its weak and made of sheep. My hope and dream is that being shielded by 2 midfielders, backed by a great goalkeeper and flanked by 2 of the best fullbacks would be just enough to get us through the game. In any case our strategy is based on outscoring the opposition rather than parking the bus.

At full back positions I have two of the best and most balanced full backs on the pitch. On left I have Breitner a world cup winner and scorer in 2 world cup finals. He would provide both defensive solidity as well as playmaking abilities from deep. Jardine is one of Scotland’s best ever right backs, very quick and energetic, and a good dribbler too. He would provide attacking outlet on the right side, while not abandoning defensive duties.

Finally in Planicka I have a fantastic keeper - “The Cat of Praque” Planicka is one of the most honoured players in history of Czechoslovakian football. In 1999, the IFFHS elected him the best Czech goalkeeper – and ninth best overall – of the twentieth century. In 2003, he was catalogued as the greatest goalkeeper of his era.

So there we have it, yes my team is riddled with sheep but at the same time has two of the most charismatic and passionate leaders in Di Stefano & Mazzolla. These two can make even the worst of the players to punch above their weight. In any case even if we lose it would be a great game, I have an attacking team with great creativity and plenty of goal scoring ability and we would try to outscore our opposition.


TEAM CAL?​

Cal-XI-formation-tactics.png


Tactic:

A fluid 4-4-2/4-3-3 that allows everyone to play in their best position. My side will be looking to keep possession and starve Bergkamp & Di Stefano of the ball, whilst at the same time, my attack is perfectly balanced with Cristiano Ronaldo starting the game on the left but allowed the freedom of the pitch; whilst Beckham will remained disciplined on the right, sending in crossed for Zlatan & Cristiano and tuck into midfield if required.

Defense:
Lama is a probably the least known player in the side, yet he was still the first choice for France for many years, accumulating over 40 caps.
Vidic one of the best defenders ever in the Premier League and Carragher a regular for a top 4 side for many years and accumulated plenty of caps in an era when England had the likes of Rio Ferdinand and Terry available in his position.
The fullbacks G Neville and Irwin probably the best fullbacks to ever play for United. G Neville in particular has a perfect understanding with Beckham and times his overlapping runs to perfection. Irwin on the other hand was one of the most solid defenders and also very capable of supporting the attack.

Midfield:
Anchoring the midfield will be De Rossi who takes up his regular position for Italy, for whom he was a key player in their World Cup win in 2006, next to him Guardiola, who was the key man for Barcelona back when they weren't the superclub they are, winning their first ever Champions League and 6 La Liga titles.
Ahead of them, one of the best attacking midfielders of all time in Zidane, and probably the ultimate big game player, I assume he needs no introduction. On the right, Beckham, the best crosser the world has ever seen and can be disciplined to help in midfield.

Attack:
Cristiano Ronaldo, I assume needs no introduction, the best player ever at the 2 biggest clubs in the world, holder of multiple scoring records across all sorts of competitions, and the only player that rivals him is blocked in this draft. :devil:
Ibrahimovic, wherever he goes, he wins, one of the best finishers in modern times, shooting, heading, left foot, right foot, he can do it all.

Sub:
Reus gets to sit around waiting for his turn once the team is in full control of the game.

The opposition:
With a number of sheeps, I'm not entirely sure how Tuppet's side will lineup, but it's pretty safe to say his defenders will have a lot of problems to deal with. Bergkamp will probably start in the number 10 position where De Rossi will be there to cut out the ball.
 
Breitner as a left-back and misspelled Bergkamp :nono:
 
I like his front four though. Bergkamp doesn't get used in that role often enough IMO in these drafts. I can see it working more cohesively (if not as potently) as Cal's attack.
 
Seriously? Someone thinks Traore, Balint & co will keep a clean sheet against Cristiano, Zlatan & co? :eek:
 
Only one winner here and I think Tuppet knew that when the draw was made...(in fact he probably knew it would be tough after about Round 5...). Saying that Tuppet has some GOATS sprinkled about his team...unfortunately just not quite enough of them.

Can see Tuppet nicking a goal but just can't control the midfield and Cal's forward line is as good as it gets...
 
How comes the voting only has the options for a 1 goal or 3 goal winning margin?? Where's the 2-0/3-1?
 
Ah now lads...

I'm as impressed as anyone with the side Tuppet has put together considering the truckfull of sheep he shipped during that draft. But for two people to have voted 3-0 against what is clearly the side of the draft so far is ridiculous.

Tuppet did an excellent job considering the run of bad luck he hit earlier on, but Cal? was beating any side in the comp in this first round. Cal? takes this one comfortably I'm afraid.
 
Gio said:
Cristiano Ronaldo, I assume needs no introduction, the best player ever at the 2 biggest clubs in the world, holder of multiple scoring records across all sorts of competitions, and the only player that rivals him is blocked in this draft. :devil:
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:lol::lol::lol:


Back to the earth, wanted to vote 3:1 for cal but as i cant i will give tuppet one more goal. Real shame tuppet has so many sheep as his idea looks pretty tasty to me.
As for Cal's team, there is few things that i like about his team and few more things that i dont like but will keep that for myself so he has a harder job in reinforcement round and this game is really a no contest so there is no need for anyone explaining his vote.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
:lol::lol::lol:


Back to the earth, wanted to vote 3:1 for cal but as i cant i will give tuppet one more goal. Real shame tuppet has so many sheep as his idea looks pretty tasty to me.
As for Cal's team, there is few things that i like about his team and few more things that i dont like but will keep that for myself so he has a harder job in reinforcement round and this game is really a no contest so there is no need for anyone explaining his vote.
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I might add you know who was blocked by me. :smirk:
 
Well, it looks like both teams are going for the goals, so this should be a fun game.

As weak as Tuppet's defenders are, he does have a good selection of GOAT's around. Breitner going forward will be tasty when he combines with Valentino, and Bergkamp will be interesting in that role up front.

Cal's team has a couple of glaring weaknesses, but nonetheless, he has no sheep, so he does have an easier time this match.

In this case, Tuppet could get a lucky, high-scoring win, but otherwise, Cal will win this more often.
 
Cal? said:
Gio says you end up with too many options or something.
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6 different results with 1 goal difference seems a waste. 6 options with each manager winning by 1, 2 or 3+ would make more sense and cover every decisive result.

I expect Cal? to win by 2 goals.
 
BBRBB said:
6 different results with 1 goal difference seems a waste. 6 options with each manager winning by 1, 2 or 3+ would make more sense and cover every decisive result.

I expect Cal? to win by 2 goals.
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That can be changed in the future I guess, it is what it is now.

Anyway, the goals only have very little effect, it only comes in if the number of wins are the same.
 
BBRBB said:
6 different results with 1 goal difference seems a waste. 6 options with each manager winning by 1, 2 or 3+ would make more sense and cover every decisive result.

I expect Cal? to win by 2 goals.
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This!
 
Šjor Bepo said:
:lol::lol::lol:


Back to the earth, wanted to vote 3:1 for cal but as i cant i will give tuppet one more goal. Real shame tuppet has so many sheep as his idea looks pretty tasty to me.
As for Cal's team, there is few things that i like about his team and few more things that i dont like but will keep that for myself so he has a harder job in reinforcement round and this game is really a no contest so there is no need for anyone explaining his vote.
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There'll be a reinforcement round?
 
Snow said:
To me this could well mean that there won't be any reinforcements.
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Personally I think reinforcement rounds keep up the interest and let's people vote on slight different teams, but we'll see what Gio & co decide to do.
 
I don't like Cal?'s team. Overrated defenders apart from Irwin. De Rossi is someone I would bet against every time if he is the most defensive midfielder and there is not much cohesion in attack, too many selfish players. I think the other team can take advantage as underdogs.
 
BBRBB said:
6 different results with 1 goal difference seems a waste. 6 options with each manager winning by 1, 2 or 3+ would make more sense and cover every decisive result.

I expect Cal? to win by 2 goals.
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The thinking behind this was as follows:

1. A narrow win in a tight match with a) few chances or b) top notch defences. Could also be opted for if you reckon Team A (or Team B) will succeed with a park-the-bus tactic.

2. A standard win, as it were. You deem one team better than the other and both teams capable of scoring.

3. A narrow win in an open ended match where both teams are capable of producing plenty of chances.

4. A beating. Covers anything from a clear-cut win to a downright massacre.

Ideally we should have 2-0 and 3-1 as options as well - but there's a point where the amount of options becomes silly, i.e. there has to be a cutoff somewhere. If you think a two goal win is spot on you should probably go for 2) or 4) depending on whether you think Tuppet will grab a goal or not.
 
It's a shame Tuppet has so many sheep which makes this game a foregone conclusion. Some truly great attackers who I'd fancy to grab a goal vs. Cal's defence. But the sheep mean there's no chance of a win here.

Not the keenest on Cal's side yet (a few upgrades and it'd be great) but it's very good for a first round.

Not much more to say on this one.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I suggested the same thing in the discussion thread.
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It's clearly a viable way to go too. But the original scheme was to introduce actual, "realistic" scorelines as options. If we go with a non-specific one, two or three goal difference there isn't any way to properly reflect the goal threat of the loser, as perceived by the voter.
 
sajeev said:
I don't like Cal?'s team. Overrated defenders apart from Irwin. De Rossi is someone I would bet against every time if he is the most defensive midfielder and there is not much cohesion in attack, too many selfish players. I think the other team can take advantage as underdogs.
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Vidic and Gary Neville overrated? :confused:
 
Cal? said:
Vidic and Gary Neville overrated? :confused:
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That's crazy talk, really. Not least given we're in the first round here. Vidic was just about the best CB of his ilk in the world for several seasons. And Gaz Nev was the epitome of a highly functional player, one who gradually picked up more and more strings to play on - in spite of a lack of so-called natural talent - and turned into a genuine top class right back at the height of his powers. The fact that he is teamed up with Beckham here doesn't hurt either.

Carragher needs to be replaced, obviously, going forward. For me, he's some kind of glorified (by scousers) squad player. Not bad by any stretch, but unlike Neville he never even briefly transcended the fairly limited scope of his footballing ability in the sense which is required here (it's an all-time draft, after all).

I'm going to repeat my old point against Irwin here too, just to piss people off: Irwin was known as Mr Reliable for a reason. That's what he was. He wasn't known as Mr Great. That too for a reason. He'd put in a decent performance on his worst day: That's an incredibly valuable quality. But it's not the greatest asset to have in a one-off match, nevermind a knock-out match (which this is).

Some will no doubt take this as undue criticism of a player most United fans hold in extremely high regard, but so be it. For my money it isn't harsh, but realistic. Irwin served us better than most, but it was his reliability over an entire stretch of matches which made him so valuable, not any extreme qualities that might save your life when the chips are down.
 
harms said:
Breitner as a left-back and misspelled Bergkamp :nono:
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Not sure what else you'd want him to do - play Traoré at left back and Brnović as a centre half? I can sort of see that as being marginally better, actually. Don't know who his benched sheep is.

The Bergkamp thing is damning, though - clearly. And it's on top of an extra "L" for Sinatra's uncle as wel(l).
 
Chesterlestreet said:
It's clearly a viable way to go too. But the original scheme was to introduce actual, "realistic" scorelines as options. If we go with a non-specific one, two or three goal difference there isn't any way to properly reflect the goal threat of the loser, as perceived by the voter.
Click to expand...

Having 1 & 3 goal difference whilst ignoring 2 is not realistic, imo. If you want to keep choices low having 1 & 2 goal difference only makes more sense. Tbh, 3 is a bit of an outlier. But if you really want to have it, it's better to have 8 options as below:

Player A wins by 3+ goal difference
Player A 2-0 Player B
Player A 2-1 Player B
Player A 1-0 Player B
Player A 0-1 Player B
Player A 1-2 Player B
Player A 0-2 Player B
Player B wins by 3+ goal difference

Either way, it's just an opinion.

Sorry for derailing this thread!
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Not sure what else you'd want him to do - play Traoré at left back and Brnović as a centre half? I can sort of see that as being marginally better, actually. Don't know who his benched sheep is.

The Bergkamp thing is damning, though - clearly. And it's on top of an extra "L" for Sinatra's uncle as wel(l).
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You should plan your team so that your second/third best player played in the best position. It's a drafting mistake, not a tactical one
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Having 1 & 3 goal difference whilst ignoring 2 is not realistic, imo. If you want to keep choices low having 1 & 2 goal difference only makes more sense. Tbh, 3 is a bit of an outlier. But if you really want to have it, it's better to have 8 options as below:

Player A wins by 3+ goal difference
Player A 2-0 Player B
Player A 2-1 Player B
Player A 1-0 Player B
Player A 0-1 Player B
Player A 1-2 Player B
Player A 0-2 Player B
Player B wins by 3+ goal difference

Either way, it's just an opinion.

Sorry for derailing this thread!
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Yes...but then you lose what I personally consider a realistic alternative, namely the open ended match where both teams attack freely and it ends in a narrow win with plenty of goals.

Seems to me you're ditching that alternative for the relatively dull 2-0 option. And what is that? The winner is a notch better defensively (or the loser a notch worse offensively) than in the 2-1 scenario? There is no place for a 4-3 extravaganza of the sort the history of football is actually full of - and which is arguably the very essence of what makes the game great. If you're looking for two scorelines that capture the greatness of football, that would be - for me - the 1-0 cagey-as-hell, tactical battle - and the 5-4 throw-caution-to-the wind blockbuster. The 2-0 standard "they were simply better and the winners weren't in any danger of conceding" adds much less to the mix. The current 3-0 takes care of the "they were way out of their depth" scenario. And the 3-2 represents the sort of match that could also end 4-3 or 5-4.

Again, ideally we should have every realistic scoreline under the sun as alternatives - but that is impracticable and would look ridiculous to boot.

I don't agree that this format reflects more realistic outcomes than the one in place. It only adds one more low score option. The utterly dominant bitch slapping is already there in the shape of the 3-0.
 
harms said:
You should plan your team so that your second/third best player played in the best position. It's a drafting mistake, not a tactical one
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Ah, yes - I can see that.

I'm not going to review the whole draft thread to assess Tuppet's moves, so I won't comment on the details there. But you could be right. The fact is that he's sheep riddled, though, which isn't something you ever plan on being - and Breitner is a versatile player in the sense that he's very plausible (and easy enough to sell) as a left back even though this isn't his historically best position.
 
harms said:
You should plan your team so that your second/third best player played in the best position. It's a drafting mistake, not a tactical one
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yeah, Breitner I definitely drafted for his b2b role, but things didn't quite went as per plan :)
 
Also, it has to be mentioned - per tradition, almost (but tradition is important, not least since we're disgustingly close to Crimbo and all that): C. Ronaldo is not the greatest, or best, player in the histories of either United or Real. There's a guy on the pitch in this very match who makes that notion questionable - at best. And there's...no, I won't resort to puns.

Anyway, this is an obvious win for @Cal? and his man. Questions will be asked as we go deeper, though. Defence is well enough balanced but needs oomph. Midfield is unbalanced for me. I don't fancy that Pep/De Rossi combo at all. It looks for all intents and purposes as if you're playing Pep as either a regular central midfielder - or in some sort of free role beyond De Rossi. He wouldn't excel in either role against a less sheep riddled team.

And the Zlatan-Ronnie thing has barely been touched on here - but it will be touched on.

Not my intention to sound like a twat (but I did, I know) - just giving my honest opinion, as I reckon we're supposed to in these match threads.
 
@Cal? Great job in that last round, harsh luck for drawing him @Tuppet but considering the amount of sheep you had thats not a bad team at all.

In the new voting system, no 3:1 & Draw options?
 
BBRBB said:
6 different results with 1 goal difference seems a waste. 6 options with each manager winning by 1, 2 or 3+ would make more sense and cover every decisive result.

I expect Cal? to win by 2 goals.
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Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Having 1 & 3 goal difference whilst ignoring 2 is not realistic, imo. If you want to keep choices low having 1 & 2 goal difference only makes more sense. Tbh, 3 is a bit of an outlier. But if you really want to have it, it's better to have 8 options as below:

Player A wins by 3+ goal difference
Player A 2-0 Player B
Player A 2-1 Player B
Player A 1-0 Player B
Player A 0-1 Player B
Player A 1-2 Player B
Player A 0-2 Player B
Player B wins by 3+ goal difference

Either way, it's just an opinion.

Sorry for derailing this thread!
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These both sound like sensible adjustments to me.

As for this match, Tuppet's made a great stab at salvaging things after all the sheep, but Cal's got one of the top2 or 3 teams in the draft at this stage and Ronaldo supplied by Zidane against that defence means goals. Ideally I'd go 3-1 or 4-1 as I could see Tuppet scoring but as I see Cal winning by more than one goal I'll go with 3-0 Cal.
 
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