Sheep Draft R1: Michaelf7777777/cubemine vs. Enigma_87/The Red Viper: Voting closed

Who will win this match based on all the players at their peaks?


  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

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Michaelf7777777/cubemine vs. Enigma_87/The Red Viper


Michaelf7777777/cubemine

Our team will play a 5-3-1-1 formation looking to restrict the opposition from creating chances, control the midfield and provide chances to sharer and Moreno as well as Tardelli going box to box. Our only involuntary acquisition Michel van de Korput will play as a spare CB covering for Blanc and Ondrus which is a role he should be capable of performing adequately given he had 23 caps for the Netherlands including playing in all their games at the 1980 euro's a mere two years after they had reached their second straight world cup final.

Our teams main area of strength is in the midfield. At the bae of the midfield we have Fernando Redondo who was regarded as one of the greatest midfielders of his generation and was both a brilliant tackler and a brilliant deep lying playmaker with the ability to control the tempo of his side. In front of him on the right hand side of central midfield we have Jozsef Bozsik who according to a 1950's Honved, Hungary and Real Madrid scout was as good as Beckenbauer (link: https://www.xtratime.org/forum/9024953-post87.html). Bozsik's strengths were his technique, his passing range, and his decisionmaking and vision which meant that he could spot the best option for a pass and wait for the right time to do the pass. In front of Redondo on the left hand side of central midfield we have Marco Tardelli who is playing as a box to box midfielder and had great tackling skills and a high level of stamina who had a good shot and was capable of passing the ball well with either foot. Our attacking midfielder is Jose Manuel Moreno who was ranked by the International Federation of Football History and Statistics as the 3rd best Argentinian player of the 20th century, the 5th best South American player of the 2oth century and one of the top 25 players in the world in the 20th century. Moreno was a great dribbler and was also a very good finisher both on the ground and in the air as well as being a good passer.

Enigma_87/The Red Viper

Formation:- 5-3-2 direct, counter attacking.
Defensive line:- Normal. Nilton and Jorginho pushing up to create width in the attacking phase.
Style:- Solid defensive line marshaled by Scirea, counter attack at every opportunity. Stretch the flanks so it would allow space through the middle for Puskas, Zidane and Greaves.

GK:- Michel Preud'homme - one of the best and complete goalkeepers in the 80's and early 90's. Phenomenal reflexes and he was great organizer at the back and always dependable in collecting crosses and in the air.

LWB:- Nilton Santos -
One of the greatest left backs in history. Defined an era and pioneered the overlapping style that nowadays has become a must for every modern attacking full back.

LCB:- Guido Buchwald - Guido Buchwald was a key player during Stuttgart's greatest era and makes this list for his strong performances for club and country at center-back.

The Berlin-born defender only won the Bundesliga twice, but in 1991-92 it was his late goal in the final matchday that made the difference. Although he was not called up to the Germany team for the 1986 World Cup, four years later he was a starter in the team that won the title in Italy.

RCB:- Claudio Gentile -
The Italian defender wore his reputation as a tough, uncompromising defender, or as the more clickbait YouTube video titles would have you believe, ‘The Hardest Man in Soccer’, as a badge of honour. It is impossible not to admire the tenacity and discipline with which he played the game, as well as his innate ability to consistently play on the very precipice of what was acceptable over 90 minutes. The contrasting defensive pairing with Scirea in terms of style, which expertly combined silk and steel together with the experienced Zoff as the last line of defence, saw Juventus claim the 1974/75 title. Gentile played 29 of 30 league games and was integral to a Bianconeri side which only conceded three goals at home in the league all season.

RWB:- Jorginho -
Much like his compatriot he was one of the most famous Brazillian full backs, being able to contribute in both phases and being instrumental in Brazil's 94 WC win with 2 direct assists .

CM:- Dave Mackay - Mackay, often seen as the hardman of English football, loathed it. 'I don't like it because it portrays me as a bully, which I am not and never have been.' Mackay's portryal as a hard man betrayed his skill on the pitch; he scored 43 times for Spurs and was the foundation on which Nicholson's title-winning team was built. Still, you don't get a reputation as being hard as nails for no reason and the fact he was able to come back from two leg breaks in succession was a testament to his character.

CM:- Phillip Cocu - A tireless general in the midfield, Dutchman Philip Cocu made a name for himself under Louis Van Gaal at Barcelona. It was a bit of bad luck that Cocu played for Barcelona in their darkest times as the world failed to recognize his potential on the field.

Cocu replaced Giovanni in the midfield and partnered Luis Enrique, proving to be the driving motor in the Van Gaal era at the Nou Camp. He is one of the rare species to convert positions successfully. His versatility allowed him to be an equally effective defensive midfielder as an attacking playmaker.

Before the arrival of Lionel Messi, Cocu boasted the most number of appearances by a foreigner for Barcelona. The playmaker appeared 291 times in a course of six seasons and scored 31 goals for the club. For is relentless services to Barca, Cocu rightly walks the hall of fame at the Nou Camp.

Libero:- Gaetano Scirea - One of the greatest defenders in history, who will organize the back, initiate attacks and step up in midfield when needed in a true libero role at his peak.

AMC:- Zinedine Zidane - The Ballon D'or winner was one of the most exciting players ever. He consistently controlled matches and could set the tempo for an entire team himself.

SS:- Ferenc Puskas - One of the most prolific scorers in history. Ferenc Puskas was a Hungarian who is regarded as one of the greatest players of all time. He was a great and sharp forward who scored 84 goals for his International Hungary side and 514 goals for the clubs he played for. Truly, a great player who was the best in what he did at that time, scoring goals - loads and loads of great goals.

ST:- Jimmy Greaves -
Greaves went on to become one of the greatest goal scorers ever in the history of the English game. His incredible ability to find the net saw him make a name for himself, not just on these shores, but across Europe too. The ultimate goal-scoring machine, still remains the highest scorer in the history of English top-flight football and has also netted more hat-tricks for England than anyone else. So deft was the forward when rounding defenders and beating goalkeepers, that his playing style was once described as the football equivalent of closing the door on a Rolls Royce. By his own admission, Greaves didn’t score too many spectacular goals or spend lots of time practicing his finishing, but instead relied on his incredible dribbling ability and a natural instinct when it came to finding the net.


Defence:- Marshaled by Gaetano Scirea at his peak, alongside his partner in crime in Claudio Gentile we have a proven fit, especially when it comes to pairing him with another excellent stopper with world class credentials as Buchwald. Nilton Santos and Jorginho are well known and one of the best Brazillian full backs, operating in their favorite roles - commanding their flanks and providing width in attack.

Midfield:- Our midfield unit is composed of two all action midfielders, who are prepositionally and tactically excellent and solid in their defensive game. Both would provide the base and stage for our attacking trio to decide the game.

Attack:- We are boasting with probably one of the best attacks in the first round. Zidane will pull the strings in the heart of the attack, whilst Puskas and Greaves would most likely be at the end of his passes and finish chances.

vs Michaelf777777/cubemine:-
We have the advantage not to field any sheep in our team and M. van de Korput is the main liability between the two teams, especially when he comes in a zone Puskas and Greaves are likely to operate. That alone would be the match decisive moment. We have advantage both in attack and defence, whilst our midfield would hold his own and neither Cocu or Mackay are pushovers.
 
10 defenders and 5 defensive midfielders on the pitch:lol: Safe to say no one is doing any kind of counter attacking here
 
Is Ondrus - Blanc the slowest CB partnership ever? :)

Interesting to see both Niltons as back 5 wingbacks, neither is well-suited to this role, imo. Puskas especially loved to play with a huge wing presence (Czibor-Gento), which allowed him to operate with more freedom in that inside channel.
 
10 defenders and 5 defensive midfielders on the pitch:lol: Safe to say no one is doing any kind of counter attacking here
Well we were set to combat a more adventurous plan from the opponent, but that should give us the edge in terms of ball retention and creating more chances than the opposition.

Puskas and Greaves in question are known for being very quick on the mark and their constant movement would trouble the slow Onrus, Blanc pairing, let alone the sheep in between.

Essentially there is a lot more goals coming from our side whilst I trust our Scirea led defence to shut out Shearer/Moreno.
 
A lot of slow players all over the pitch.

You would have been destroyed by any properly implemented ecstatic team, extremely sad but true

Greaves, Tardelli, Moreno and Cocu are maybe the most energic players; Graves being the only eligible player to match the formely Ecstatic Philosophy
 
Interesting to see both Niltons as back 5 wingbacks, neither is well-suited to this role, imo. Puskas especially loved to play with a huge wing presence (Czibor-Gento), which allowed him to operate with more freedom in that inside channel.

I think this is more to do with the formation employed at the time. Puskas was always in a free role to hover around the opposition box. Nilton will no doubt provide the wing presence in attack, but Puskas will have the freedom and space to drift wide and receive the ball in space.

Puskas in modern incarnation I can see being a complete #9 or a SS who would spend most of the time in the inside left channel and occasionally popping also on the right.
 
A lot of slow players all over the pitch.

You would have been destroyed by any properly implemented ecstatic team, extremely sad but true

Greaves, Tardelli, Moreno and Cocu are maybe the most energic players; Graves being the only eligible player to match the formely Ecstatic Philosophy
Jorginho was pretty fast on the flank mate. Greaves naturally is the fastest on the pitch, but Puskas at his peak was also very explosive. Scirea was also pretty fast for a libero/CB.

Generally I don't believe our team lacks pace :)
 
Jorginho was pretty fast on the flank mate. Greaves naturally is the fastest on the pitch, but Puskas at his peak was also very explosive. Scirea was also pretty fast for a libero/CB.

Generally I don't believe our team lacks pace :)

I think I need to stop watching Kaká!
 
I think I need to stop watching Kaká!
Well Kaka is different phenomenon, very few in history can match him for raw pace and gliding across the pitch with the ball. The man doesn't get that fair due in drafts as well, on a side note!
 
Nilton will no doubt provide the wing presence in attack
I'm really not sure though. No doubt regarding Puskas as a creative number 9, that's why he needed a line-hugging winger to open the space for him. Jorginho works well enough on the other side, but Nilton rarely crossed the central line — he was more of a playmaking presence with great dribbling and long ball skills from what I've seen, not an overlapper.
 
10 defenders and 5 defensive midfielders on the pitch:lol: Safe to say no one is doing any kind of counter attacking here

All 3 of Tardelli, Bozsik and Redondo could construct as well as defend (as can Mackay for the opposition in all fairness, I don't know enough about Cocu to know whether the same is true for him or not).

However if you think its going to be a 0-0 borefest, it should be remembered that Bert Trautmann saved 60% of the penalties he faced during his career, so we should have the advantage in a penalty shoot out.
 
I really don't like the use of Shearer though. He is a bit underrated in the drafts, and he certainly was a handful for any defender, but I'd definitely put a few elite crossers in the team when he's around. Having Djalma and Filipe Luis in uber-defensive roles (judging by the formation) as the only wing players? If Moreno pulls out wide (not sure how effective he was in this role), you're left with pretty much unexisting secondary goalthreat.
 
All 3 of Tardelli, Bozsik and Redondo could construct as well as defend (as can Mackay for the opposition in all fairness, I don't know enough about Cocu to know whether the same is true for him or not).

However if you think its going to be a 0-0 borefest, it should be remembered that Bert Trautmann saved 60% of the penalties he faced during his career, so we should have the advantage in a penalty shoot out.

All of the midfielders can. Redondo and Bozsik are more of a creators first and foremost, Tardelli as well is a natural B2B, capable of providing in both phases.

Cocu is one of the most versatile players ever. He even played as a winger occasionally at Barca and has scored more than 150 goals for club and country.

 
I really don't like the use of Shearer though. He is a bit underrated in the drafts, and he certainly was a handful for any defender, but I'd definitely put a few elite crossers in the team when he's around. Having Djalma and Filipe Luis in uber-defensive roles (judging by the formation) as the only wing players? If Moreno pulls out wide (not sure how effective he was in this role), you're left with pretty much unexisting secondary goalthreat.
Aye. I rate Djalma as someone who can provide attacking support in a 4 man back line but as a wingback is not really his optimal position.

Felipe Luis is also underwhelming choice at LB.

I rate Shearer and he is indeed underrated in drafts but in this set up and against our defence he'd struggle, especially without much service and ultra defensive set formation.
 
Well we were set to combat a more adventurous plan from the opponent, but that should give us the edge in terms of ball retention and creating more chances than the opposition.

Agree. Zidane is the matchwinner here because he can unlock that bus with a dribbling and put it on a plate for Puskas / Greaves.

All 3 of Tardelli, Bozsik and Redondo could construct as well as defend (as can Mackay for the opposition in all fairness, I don't know enough about Cocu to know whether the same is true for him or not).

However if you think its going to be a 0-0 borefest, it should be remembered that Bert Trautmann saved 60% of the penalties he faced during his career, so we should have the advantage in a penalty shoot out.

Your midfield is really really good. You were unlucky that you had a CB as a sheep and came up against Enigma with Puskas, otherwise you could've easily played him in a back 4 alongside those other very solid defenders. All that was missing is a great LW.

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Sheep aside, Redondo/Bozsik is not optimal and has way too much overlaps. Tardelli will have too much on his hands to hold that midfield together. Moreno is a nice fit there and he has freedom to drift about and his capacity to drop deep/wide will come in handy...but will dilute the attacking threat. Shearer apart I don't see much goal threat enough to breach the defence they are facing.

For Enigma, the back 5 is not really well built. Both his fullbacks are better in back 4 and don't really elevate much as a wingback. Buchwald doesn't really add anything to the dynamic too. He should just drop Guido an play a flat back 4 going forward imo. Cocu and Mackay are both left footed and preferred operating on left side of the midfield. Mackay as left half and Blanchflower as Right Half were the crucial elements of that Spurs team. Mackay can drift both halves but he still was more in his element on left side. As harms said, Puskas was better with wingers stretching the play. Here he still would be lethal, but not really a peak Puskas.

I reckon the sheep decides the match.
 
Buchwald doesn't really add anything to the dynamic too. He should just drop Guido an play a flat back 4 going forward imo
Not in this game, as Shearer doesn’t have any crosses flying in towards him, but a Scirea-Gentile pairing would be a bit suspect against a really great aerial threat. Both are shorter than 1,80 m., and neither is a specialist in this area, even though they weren’t particularly bad either.
 
For Enigma, the back 5 is not really well built. Both his fullbacks are better in back 4 and don't really elevate much as a wingback. Buchwald doesn't really add anything to the dynamic too. He should just drop Guido an play a flat back 4 going forward imo. Cocu and Mackay are both left footed and preferred operating on left side of the midfield. Mackay as left half and Blanchflower as Right Half were the crucial elements of that Spurs team. Mackay can drift both halves but he still was more in his element on left side. As harms said, Puskas was better with wingers stretching the play. Here he still would be lethal, but not really a peak Puskas.

Have to disagree on the full backs. In 94' Brazil played with a narrow formation up front with Bebeto and Romario and Zinho/Rai and most of the width came from the full backs - not only Jorginho but also Branco on the left. He can actively participate in the attacking phase and has played as a WB and has all the needed traits for one - fast, explosive, good dribbler, solid tactically.

On Nilton I can understand the issue of always being depicted as superhuman, but apart from him with only Facchetti and Maldini you can strike a claim of being the most balanced and all things considered solid in defence but also able to contribute forward.

Nilton himself was often cited as great dribbler and has started his career as a forward and winger. Given the space he loved to gallop forward and often against his managers wishes (that goal against Austria for example) considering how conservative managers were in their approach for full backs.


For Cocu/Mackay I'd agree, as ideally both would prefer the LCM position but both are one of the most versatile midfielders around to make it work, especially in a 5-3-2.

Cocu depended more on his left foot than Mackay, hence we've put the other on the right side.

On Guido - we had the 5-3-2 in mind as we expected the opposition to field 2 strikers and Gentile/Buchwald as excellent stoppers and man markers with Scirea as a spare man made perfect sense.

He might look a bit redundant in this line up of course but this means that Scirea can step up on more regular basis in midfield and take the ball out of defence.
 
On Nilton I can understand the issue of always being depicted as superhuman, but apart from him with only Facchetti and Maldini you can strike a claim of being the most balanced and all things considered solid in defence but also able to contribute forward.

Ezxept, the formation doesn't requires the most balanced full back. It demands an attacking collosus.
 
Ezxept, the formation doesn't requires the most balanced full back. It demands an attacking collosus.
Yeah naturally there are better pure attacking full backs/wing backs out there. Nilton ticks both boxes for us though - the ability to play in a back four as a full back, but also as an attacking wing back. My point was that he's no mug going forward and has the qualities to stretch the play, hence bring Puskas into his zone.
 
I feel the relatively slow combination of two 532 tactics actually works in MichaelCube's favor. The nature of this tactical match I belief de-emphasizes the damage of a sheep since the Red'nigmas only have two forwards. I think MichaelCube's midfield trio will dominate this game. I feel like the easily win would have been for the Red'nigmas to go with 4 at the back and set out to attack the sheep more. I think the match is set for Redondo-Tardelli-Bozsik to control the tempo of the match and the sheep won't decide it for once. I'd probably have already voted for Michaelcube but I don't really fancy this tactic to get the type of service Shearer would thrive on so its a bit of stalemate to me.