Sheep draft QF - NM vs Cutch

Who would win based on player peak?

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .

Balu

Der Fußballgott
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Team NM​


THE TEAM

The core of the legendary Juventus team of the 80's forms the basis for the side – with the legendary Geateno Scirea marshalling the defence and dictating the game from the back, whilst Marco Tardelli roams box to box, breaking forward in possession and hastling the opposition without the ball.

Arguably the third best defender of all time after Baresi and Beckenbauer - Scirea will take up his classic Libero role and move over the pitch to where he is most needed. On the ball he will offer accurate distribution from the back to Platini, providing a base on which to build attacks.

On the flanks, two outstanding Brazilian fullbacks in Carlos Alberto and Roberto Carlos provide offensive width, breaking forward when the team attacks to overload Cutch's defense as it struggles to get to grips with Platini, Puskas and Hamrin.

Offensive fullbacks are often underrated in these drafts but here we have two of the most effective of all time at doing just that - Make no mistake, Roberto Carlos and Carlos Alberto will wreck havoc if left unchecked and by bombing up the pitch the two Brazilians will create space for Platini to work his magic in the middle.

In addition to the two fullbacks, width is provided by one of the most prolific wingers of all time in Kurt Hamrin - Who currently remains the 7th All Time Leading Goalscorer in Serie A. An exceptional dribbler with an electric turn of pace, Hamrin will start on the right hand side but will drift in or out, driving inside to create space for others.

Why I Think I will win:
  • GOATs in each phase of play: Scirea/Carlos Alberto/Platini/Puskas
  • Who is marking Platini? Simeone is the only defensive minded midfielder in Cutch's team, and he can't do a job on Platini. Platini will have the freedom of the field.
  • Scirea will limit Charlton's long shots and influence
  • Both my center backs are very adept at protecting the wingbacks
  • Goals galore - my team simply has an incredible amount of goals in its front 3. If Charlton is negated, Cutch simply can't match that.

PLATINI

The team is built around one of the greatest footballers of all time and arguably the game's best ever passer - Michel Platini. A three time winner of the Ballon d'Or in '83, '84 and 85, Platini is the best player on the pitch, playing in a system similar to the ones he thrived in with some of the very same players.

Given the freedom of the pitch to drift and pick up possession, Platini will get on the ball and spread the game with his exceptional passing – slipping through balls to Puskas, or knocking it out wide to an overlapping Carlos Alberto.

Of course Platini was not only an unrivalled playmaker but a supreme goal scorer himself – On ten occasions did he hit 25 goals or more in a season, at his peak scoring 82 goals in 139 games in 80's Serie A and 9 goals in 5 games for France at Euro '84.

There is no one in Cutch's side capable of stopping Platini offensively, or preventing his passing dictating the course of the match.



PUSKAS

Linking up with Platini is another of football's all time legends, “The Galloping Major” Ferenc Puskas - The Captain and leader of the “Mighty Magyars” and part of Real Madrid's historic side which won five European Cups in a row. Over the course of an exceptional career Puskas scored 616 goals in 620 games at club level, 84 goals in 85 games internationally and remains the only player to score a hat-trick in two European Cup Finals.

"How great was Ferenc Puskas? Such things, necessarily, are subjective - and, particularly when you're going on video footage, almost impossible to judge - but for me he stands alongside Johan Cruyff as one of the two greatest European players of all time.

It is not just his technical ability. Other players have had that. It is not even the fact that he had key parts in two of the most celebrated games ever played on British soil - Hungary's 6-3 victory over England at Wembley in 1953 and Real Madrid's 7-3 victory over Eintracht Frankfurt in 1960. It is the fact that that ability was allied to a brain that understood how best to use his ability for the team.

That is why his nickname, the 'Galloping Major', was so appropriate - even if he hardly galloped and, at the time it was bestowed, was only a lieutenant - because he was so good at marshalling his side towards a common goal. "If a good player has the ball, he should have the vision to spot three options," the full-back Jeno Buzanszky said. "Puskas always saw at least five."

Comparisons are made with George Best, not least because Puskas enjoyed a similarly hectic social life. Tales of his drinking exploits with Jim Baxter are legion, and the late Scotland winger, who maintained that the Hungarian had just two words of English - "vhisky" and "jiggy-jig".

But Puskas's habit never got in the way of his football and, after the two-year exile he served following his defection in 1956, he had the self-discipline to lose 18kg before lining up for Real Madrid. With an Olympic gold, a World Cup silver, five Hungarian league titles, five Spanish championships and a European Cup, plus the fact he was top scorer in Spain four times, his achievements dwarf those of Best."

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Team Cutch​

PLAYER PROFILES
EDWIN VAN DER SAR
One of the most reliable and acclaimed goalkeepers of the last 20 years. Had a wonderfully long and glittering career for club and country.

JAVIER ZANETTI
19 years at Inter Milan and an astonishing 145 caps for Argentina. One of the finest fullbacks of all time. Physical powerhouse and a model of consistency.

ALESSANDRO NESTA
The best defender of his generation. Tremendous composure inside the box, incredible positional sense off the ball and highly accurate anticipation of a striker’s movement inside the final third were some attributes that would describe Nesta’s defensive prowess. His calming influence has brought out the best in many that have played alongside him.

RUUD KROL
One of the best defenders of his generation, Krol defined the Dutch ‘Total Football’ philosophy. Quick and agile, Krol is perhaps best remembered for his explosive runs down the left wing combined with his accurate delivery, however such was his talent that he could play anywhere across midfield or the back line and excelled as a libero at the 1978 WC.

NILTON SANTOS
Legendary Brazilian left back selected in the FIFA world team of century in 1998. A defender so complete he was nicknamed ‘The Encyclopaedia of Football’. Revolutionised the position of attacking fullback and inspired generations of Brazilian that followed in that position. Outstanding in attack with his pace, world-class dribbling and crossing.


JOZSEF BOZSIK
Forget the likes of Pirlo and Alonso, Jozsef Bozsik is considered the finest deep lying playmaker in the history of the game. The brains of one of the best sides of all time, Hungary’s Mighty Magyars that dominated the 1950's.
There are few historical players who would have been more valued in the modern game. For Bozsik possessed the gift that is the most valued in contemporary football and the hardest to find, that of time. He had the ability and composure to wait for the right option and to execute what few others could even see. In an era where such qualities are at a premium, Bozsik would have been peerless.

DIEGO SIMEONE
The perfect foil to accompany Bozsik, Simeone was known to be a tenacious and complete two-way midfielder, who was capable both of winning balls and starting attacking plays, and also scoring goals himself. He was primarily known for his leadership, technique, tactical versatility, intelligence, strength, stamina, and workrate, although he was also noted for his vision and passing range.

SIR BOBBY CHARLTON
Arguably the finest player to come out of English football. Man Utd and Englands all time goalscorer. A legend of the game. A gentleman of honesty and integrity. Personified the Busby Babes – the triumph, tragedy and the ability to rise from the munich air disaster to restore the glory days to the club. His game displayed grace, speed, athleticism and a thunderous shot.



FRANCISCO 'PACO' GENTO
Trophies, trophies and more trophies. That’s the story of the career of A player many believe to be the best left-winger of all time and the only player in history to win six European Cups. Gento had lightning pace, fantastic dribbling skills and perfect accuracy in his crosses, and he played in one of the truly great Real Madrid teams. Along with Di Stefano, Kopa, Rial and Puskas he was part of a stunning forward line that led the team to win five consecutive European Cups. He was scorer of a not too shabby 182 goals in 602 matches.
http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/players/player=174556/index.html

SIR STANLEY MATTHEWS
One of the greatest players of the English game. He was the first player to win both the Football Writers’ Association Footballer of the Year and European Footballer of the Year awards. His quick feet and quick speed earned him the nicknames, “The Magician”, and “The Wizard of the Dribble.”



JUST FONTAINE
Fontaine was a born finisher, smooth and strikingly two-footed. There are similarities with the greatest goalscorer of them all, Gerd Müller: both were squat men with formidable strength, particularly in their tree-trunk thighs, and both had a supernatural awareness and serenity in their patch of land, the 18-yard box.
One of France’s greatest ever strikers, best known for scoring an unbelievable 13 goals at the 1958 World Cup. But he was no one tournament wonder. Fontaine’s goal scoring record during his club career in France was an incredible 165 goals in 200 appearances, helping himself to two league titles along the way. He was strong with both feet, great in the air and could have added even more to his extraordinary stats had injuries not cut short his career.

LONGEVITY
- All 11 players each considered to be a legend of the game in their respective countries.
Lets take a minute to reflect on the longevity of some of these careers:

Club
Nilton Santos - 723 games at Botafogo
Stanley Matthews - 700 career games
Van Der Sar - 600 career games
Zanetti - 19 years at Inter
Bozsik - 19 years at Honved
Gento - 18 years at Real
Charlton - 17 years at Man Utd
Krol - 12 years at Ajax

Country
Zanetti - 145 caps for Argentina
Van Der Sar - 130 caps for Holland
Simeone - 106 caps for Argentina
Charlton - 106 caps for England
Bozsik - 101 caps for England
Krol - 83 caps for Holland
Nilton Santos - 75 caps for Brazil

A side full of experienced and decorated players from some of the finest international sides ever to have played the game.

TACTICS
- A solid defence with 2 of the most complete fullbacks ever to have played the game, and in the centre a complete footballer alongside a complete defender.
- The creative hub is Jozsef Bozsik with the tireless Diego Simeone in close attendance providing the running, endeavour and tactical nous.
- The width further forward is provided by 2 legendary flying machines providing an outlet in behind for Bozsiks metronomic passing and also creating space for Bozsik carrying the ball forward. Matthews and Gento will run at and commit the opposition defenders and do what they do best, getting quality delivery into box for one of the most natural goalscorers to have played the game Just Fontaine to profit.
- Also in the thick of things none other than Sir Bobby Charlton, Man Utd and Englands record goalscorer.


Good luck @NM, @Theon and @Cutch
 
So, I'll start off... Who is on Platini? If it's Simeone, he can't do a job on him, and Cutch will struggle in the midfield battle as Scirea will step up at times to keep an eye on Charlton. Tardelli and Gattuso there as well means his midfield will have no way through, or no way to keep the ball for long even.
 
I agree with NM here, I can see Platini getting plenty of freedom here and that might cause chaos for Cutch.
What a matchup.
 
Okay, I'll start this up I guess.. As NM suggested, I can see Platini getting too much freedom to pull the strings here, and as good as Nesta-Krol are, with a striker like Puskas you don't want to give Platini, the main creative threat, too much freedom and that's a game changer.

For me the wings are both really good on both teams, enough to somewhat cancel eachother out in terms of class, so the middle will decide it and right now NM's looking far more impressive.
 
Best match so far. Both teams have great defence to attack, with NM better in defence, and Cutch in attack.
 
Jesus christ... these 2 teams look final ready except may be an odd player on each team. What an unlucky draw
 
Isotope said:
Best match so far. Both teams have great defence to attack, with NM better in defence, and Cutch in attack.
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I'd question how useful his better attack would be though. His midfield is grid locked, and if Scirea keeps Charlton quiet, Puskas/Hamrin/Platini is better IMO than his 3. Surely that is a valid claim?
 
NM said:
I'd question how useful his better attack would be though. His midfield is grid locked, and if Scirea keeps Platini quiet, Puskas/Hamrin/Platini is better IMO than his 3. Surely that is a valid claim?
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Now I'm confused.

Edit: Oh, you mean Scirea on Charlton.
 
so @NM how do you deal with a situation where let's say either winger is attacking on the wing alongside the full back? That's the only way I can see Cutch scoring here perhaps. Even a free CB may not get able to get across in time.
 
crappycraperson said:
so @NM how do you deal with a situation where let's say either winger is attacking on the wing alongside the full back? That's the only way I can see Cutch scoring here perhaps. Even a free CB may not get able to get across in time.
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Katsche's job was to cover the space left by Beckenbauer - he would see the danger and get across in time. I'd argue the same for Rio.

Additionally, if that's his only route to goal, wouldn't I score more.

Let's ask this instead? How on earth are the wingers getting the ball when I'm dominating midfield, Platini is running the show and Hamrin/Puskas getting chances? I'd outscore him IMO.
 
I don't think the midfield is as one-sided as you portray it @NM. It's not that easy to keep Bozsik and Charlton from running the show for their own team and I don't see one team dominating possession here to an extent where the other team is pushed deep into the own half and can't create anything besides counterattacks. It's an open game, both teams will create and score. It's also not that easy to mark Charlton out of the game, ask Beckenbauer, who sacrificed his own influence on the game to do it. That's not what you want from Scirea here right?
 
NM said:
Katsche's job was to cover the space left by Beckenbauer - he would see the danger and get across in time. I'd argue the same for Rio.

Additionally, if that's his only route to goal, wouldn't I score more.

Let's ask this instead? How on earth are the wingers getting the ball when I'm dominating midfield, Platini is running the show and Hamrin/Puskas getting chances? I'd outscore him IMO.
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I am leaning towards your side but I am not sure I buy that you will be that dominant in the midfield that he won't even have the opportunities to build up the play and attack in numbers. Cutch's back 4 is near perfect here. Nilton Santos one of the best attacking full backs of all time and Zanetti with great industry on the right. Dealing with those two plus his 2 wingers (both great again) is definitely the biggest challenge facing your side IMO.
 
Two fantastic teams, but looks like NM is well lined up to counter the fantastic wing presence of Cutch, and counter attack via the wings as well. On a quick observation, that's a key advantage he possesses IMO.

Robbie Carlos and Puskas attacking Zanetti's (who i dont rate too highly) side... That looks like a route for multiple goals.
 
crappycraperson said:
I am leaning towards your side but I am not sure I buy that you will be that dominant in the midfield that he won't even have the opportunities to build up the play and attack in numbers. Cutch's back 4 is near perfect here. Nilton Santos one of the best attacking full backs of all time and Zanetti with great industry on the right. Dealing with those two plus his 2 wingers (both great again) is definitely the biggest challenge facing your side IMO.
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I'd agree that the majority of his threat is down his flank. I'd argue Carlos Alberto is up to the task on the right, and I have two box to box midfielders who are happy to get their hands dirty.

@Balu I apologize. I'm not trying to portray domination, but an advantage. Perhaps I overspoke.

I just see my team having more goal threat here. The best player on the park (Platini IMO) is going to run riot. Simeone can't match up with him.
 
NM said:
@crappycraperson @VivaJanuzaj @Isotope shouldn't you guys also wonder how he keeps me out or even controls the game here?
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I don't think he does, that not a game Cutch can play IMO with this team. So yeah, it could come down to who scores more. I really your back 5 as well to be fair, Scirea's presence does lend it more security, hence leaning in your direction as of now.
 
Balu said:
I don't think the midfield is as one-sided as you portray it @NM. It's not that easy to keep Bozsik and Charlton from running the show for their own team and I don't see one team dominating possession here to an extent where the other team is pushed deep into the own half and can't create anything besides counterattacks. It's an open game, both teams will create and score. It's also not that easy to mark Charlton out of the game, ask Beckenbauer ;).
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This. My first thought was Cutch would dominate midfield, but then later thought that NM's Puskas and Hamrin are also comfortable in possession and dropping deep.
 
I agree with NM's assertion about Platini Simeone mis-match, have voted for him. Might change later on depending on Cutch's responses.
 
I'm not a big fan of Carlos Alberto as a wingback by the way. I thought I already streched it when I praised his attacking contribution in the world cup draft mostly because he scored that one goal. From what I've seen of him, he's a well balanced fullback, but a stronger defender than attacker, even played as a centerback in his later years.

I agree that your midfield is better equipped to keep his midfield quiet than the other way round, but you need Gattuso for it, which leaves R. Carlos a bit stranded against Matthews/Zanetti on the wing. Scirea has his hands full to organise your defense, because it'll get dragged out of positon all the time. It's difficult to look past Platini and Puskas causing massive problems for Cutch through the middle though. If I had to predict a score, I'd say a 2-2 is the most likely result.

I think you missed a trick by not going for a 4222 here, kick one of the 2 centerbacks out and play Ze Roberto as a left midfielder who helps Carlos defending that wing. I don't think you need 3 (and a half) centerbacks, even though one of them is Scirea and can step into midfield a lot. You don't need so many centerbacks against his one striker, you could use some help for Carlos on the left though.
 
Balu said:
I'm not a big fan of Carlos Alberto as a wingback by the way. I thought I already streched it when I praised his attacking contribution in the world cup draft mostly because he scored that one goal. From what I've seen of him, he's a well balanced fullback, but a stronger defender than attacker, even played as a centerback in his later years.

I agree that your midfield is better equipped to keep his midfield quiet than the other way round, but you need Gattuso for it, which leaves R. Carlos a bit stranded against Matthews/Zanetti on the wing. Scirea has his hands full to organise your defense, because it'll get dragged out of positon all the time. It's difficult to look past Platini and Puskas causing massive problems for Cutch through the middle though. If I had to predict a score, I'd say a 2-2 is the most likely result.

I think you missed a trick by not going for a 4222 here, kick one of the 2 centerbacks out and play Ze Roberto as a left midfielder who helps Carlos defending that wing. I don't think you need 3 (and a half) centerbacks, even though one of them is Scirea and can step into midfield a lot. You don't need so many centerbacks against his one striker, you could use some help for Carlos on the left though.
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I'd argue Katsche is a LOT more able to help out Carlos because of this formation. Wouldn't you agree?
 
Anyway, I'll let Cutch talk. He has an excellent team here. There's no denying that.
 
NM said:
I'd argue Katsche is a LOT more able to help out Carlos because of this formation. Wouldn't you agree?
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In a different way. Ze Roberto would simply sit on Zanetti from the first moment he tried to step into your half and make it difficult for him to connect with Matthews and create 2vs1s. In your line-up Schwarzenbeck will be dragged out to defend against a winger out wide while Carlos is on Zanetti. It makes the organisation of your defense a fecking nightmare, because everyone needs to move accordingly. In theory you have a better defender on the job, but you also invite a lot more pressure and are forced to react. If you had a different rightback, I'd understand it. But I'm not sure if Carlos Alberto really offers enough going forward to make it the best choice for your team.
 
Balu said:
I'm not a big fan of Carlos Alberto as a wingback by the way. I thought I already streched it when I praised his attacking contribution in the world cup draft mostly because he scored that one goal. From what I've seen of him, he's a well balanced fullback, but a stronger defender than attacker, even played as a centerback in his later years.

I agree that your midfield is better equipped to keep his midfield quiet than the other way round, but you need Gattuso for it, which leaves R. Carlos a bit stranded against Matthews/Zanetti on the wing. Scirea has his hands full to organise your defense, because it'll get dragged out of positon all the time. It's difficult to look past Platini and Puskas causing massive problems for Cutch through the middle though. If I had to predict a score, I'd say a 2-2 is the most likely result.

I think you missed a trick by not going for a 4222 here, kick one of the 2 centerbacks out and play Ze Roberto as a left midfielder who helps Carlos defending that wing. I don't think you need 3 (and a half) centerbacks, even though one of them is Scirea and can step into midfield a lot. You don't need so many centerbacks against his one striker, you could use some help for Carlos on the left though.
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One of the players I missed out on completely and even if I knew who he was I had no appreciation to just how good he was. Getting to look him up in an earlier draft was incredible, he's really unique and I am not sure there'd any central midfielder who could dribble like him being so comfortable out wide as well.
 
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Annahnomoss said:
One of the players I missed out on completely and even if I knew who he was I had no appreciation to just how good he was. Getting to look him up in an earlier draft was incredible, he's really unique and I am not sure there'd any central midfielder who could dribble like him with such comfortable out wide as well.
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He'd also have the wonderful Brazil connection going for him and R. Carlos.
 
Ridiculous teams. The R. Carlos-C. Alberto fullback combo is, insanely enough, not necessarily the best one on the pitch.

Can't see the thing properly for all the shiny, sparkling things out there.
 
crappycraperson said:
so @NM how do you deal with a situation where let's say either winger is attacking on the wing alongside the full back? That's the only way I can see Cutch scoring here perhaps. Even a free CB may not get able to get across in time.
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Aye that's definitely the route to goal for Cutch - it typically is when you play a diamond or a three man defence. That said though I think in general it gets a little over stated as a vulnerability.

In this game though Hamrin is playing on the right cutting infield so Santos has a winger to deal with and won't be getting forward any more than normal. Carlos Alberto will be able to get forward just as much as Santos as both are facing wingers - arguably Carlos Alberto will be able to get forward more often and create a 2 vs 1 seeing as he has Ferdinand as a spare covering defender, which Cutch doesn't have.
 
Internet playing up here badly. Good luck NM. Not gonna criticise his side, it's a cracker. Obviously Platini the obvious threat and if he does get him repeatedly on the ball he can be a match winner. Has he the right creativity behind in Gattuso and Tardelli. I know there's no worries in my side with the pinpoint passing of Jozsef Bozsik getting the ball to my matchwinners. I like my balance in there and certainly don't see my team having less possession, id argue probably more. A slight adjustment in this one with Simeone the deepest, he'll be the closest to Platini but the priority will be stopping the supply and getting Bozsik to stamp his class and control the tempo of the game.
 
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