Serie A 90's Draft QF - oneniltothearsenal vs 2mufc0/Invictus

[green_smiley]

PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING: voting should be based on player performances in Serie A/Coppa Italia from the 90/91 season to 99/00. Performances outside this timeframe or other competitions do not count.


TEAM ONENILTOTHEARSENAL

Spoiler: Formation before updated

VS

TEAM 2MUFC0/INVICTUS

ONENILTOTHEARSENAL TACTICS

4312 Midfield Dominance

In Serie A, tactics are king. The addition of Gullit allows a lot of new tactical options. The opposition is also important so this side takes that into account.

The key is to maximize Roberto Baggio. How to do that here? Desailly was key reinforcement for the opponents. So we want to free Baggio from Marcel’s influence. Gullit takes the peak of the diamond here. His total footballing abilities with his unique physique serve two goals. We take control of the midfield battle to control the match. 90s Serie A was much about dictating tempo to the opponent at the pace you wanted. We aim to control the midfield here and dictate the tempo. We aim to control the midfield with Gullit, Dino, Marocchi and Cois. Cois will go a long way to slowing down Zidane and the Gullit dropping into midfield ensures a dominance there. Gullit can also spark moves from all over the pitch.

Gullit at the diamond tip also serves to free the Divine Ponytail to maximize his offensive impact. Roberto Baggio is in his highest goal scoring form here along with Careca to offer a sharp spearhead. The tactic is designed to free Roberto Baggio to penetrate against the weakest defender, Tudor. He plays the position this time he won the Ballon for in ‘93.
On defense I highlight the leadership of Minotti.

Lorenzo Minotti
One of the hidden gems of this draft. Minotti was a key player in Parma’s Parmalat years of the 1990s that saw Parma achieve an amount of success for a club of its size and origin. They achieved a historic promotion to Serie A in 1990. In their first years in Serie A they finished 6th, 7th, 3rd, 5th and then 3rd again in 1994/95. A phenomenal achievement for a club just earning promotion and playing against the giants of Serie A - Juventus, AC Milan and Inter plus a half dozen other ambitious sides.

Minotti was a huge part of establishing Parma in the early 90s and providing a solid foundation for many great signings in the coming years. Considered the heart of Parma’s defense and captain of the side during this era. Minotti was a classic, savvy Italian sweeper capable of excellent game reading, timing and very quick. He was also used to dictating play from the back and had great passing range.


2MUFC0/INVICTUS TACTICS

Player Profiles

Spoiler: Stefano Tacconi (Juve/Genoa 1900-1995)

Standing 6’ 2 (1.88m), and supremely athletic – particularly for the era in which he played – Tacconi cut an imposing figure for opposing strikers, often panicking them into making mistakes which then allowed him to make comfortable saves. He would concede 29 goals in his first season, winning the Scudetto, but it would be in European action where he truly made the difference, starting a trend that would continue throughout his time with the club. More info here.

Spoiler: Jocelyn Angloma (Torino/Inter 1994-1997)

Strong, quick athletic fullback able to defend and attack, Serie A peak with Inter in 1996-97 ESM team of the year, consistently one of the better right backs during his time in Serie A.

Spoiler: Pietro Vierchowod (Sampdoria/Juventus/Milan 1990-1997)

Nicknamed lo Zar, Vierchowod was a tenacious and physical left-footed centre-back, who possessed great pace; regarded as one of Italy's best ever defenders, during his career, he was considered one of the fastest defenders in the world, and one of the toughest Serie A defenders of the 1980s and the 1990s, due to his immense strength, tight marking of opponents, and hard tackling style of play. More here.

Spoiler: Igor Tudor (Juventus 1998-2000)

Tudor was considered one of Croatia's best defenders in the period between the late 1990s and mid-2000s. Tudor was a large, hard-working, strong and imposing defender who excelled in the air, making him a dangerous goal threat during set pieces. He was also a tight man-marker and a hard tackling defender, with great tactical intelligence. More here

Spoiler: Robert Jarni (Bari/Torino 1991-1994)

Complimenting Angloma we have Robert Jarni known for his work up and down the flank, like Angloma able to man the flank in attack aswell as defence.

Spoiler: Christian Karembeu (Sampdoria 1995-1997)

Energetic, strong and technical midfielder who played for Sampdoria in the mid 90's. Karembeu had taken to Serie A with aplomb, becoming one of the league’s most accomplished players. “I had never seen anyone with a greater work capacity,” admitted Eriksson in his 2013 book Sven: My Story. “When he ran intervals in training, nobody could keep up.” As intimidated as they were by his athletic prowess, however, Karembeu ingratiated himself immediately, and not just because of his commensurate technical gifts. Respectful and learned, it was no surprise when his teammates donned t-shirts protesting the French government’s nuclear testing on New Caledonian territory in 1995. On and off the field, he became one of the team’s most important references. More here.

Spoiler: Marel Desailly (Milan 1993-1998)

"Nicknamed "The Rock", due to his consistency, strength, and hard-tackling playing style, Desailly is considered one of the most accomplished players of his generation, and one of the finest French defenders ever, who stood out for his leadership and ability to break down opposition plays throughout his career. A quick, hard-working, tenacious, and powerful player, who excelled in the air and at anticipating his opponentts, he combined his aggression, stamina, and ability to read the game, as well as his physical, mental, and defensive skills, with a notable confidence on the ball, which also allowed him to play in the midfield throughout his career; indeed, after moving to Milan, although he initially started out playing as a centre-back or sweeper, and occasionally even as a full-back, he was later deployed as a defensive midfielder, a position in which he also excelled, successfully filling the void left by the departure of Frank Rijkaard due his ball-winning abilities and capacity to start attacking plays after obtaining winning back possession. In addition to his defensive skills, he was also capable of contributing to his team's offensive plays with goals by making attacking runs into the box."

Spoiler: Zvonimir Boban (Milan 1991-2000)

Nicknamed Zorro, Boban was a talented and creative yet tenacious player, known for his use of feints to beat opponents. He was gifted with excellent vision, passing range, dribbling skills, technical ability, and an eye for the final ball; he mixed these attributes with a unique tactical versatility and intelligence, which enabled him to be deployed in several midfield and offensive positions throughout his career. In addition to his preferred playmaking role behind the forwards as an attacking midfielder, he was also capable of playing on the wing, as a central midfielder, or even as a supporting striker, due to his powerful and accurate bending shots from distance; he was also effective from set-pieces. Throughout his career, he also became known for his vocal presence, determination and aggression on the pitch, as well as his strong character. More here.

Spoiler: Zinedine Zidane (Juventus 1996-2000)

The man doesn't need any introduction, one of the best players in the draft and most consider his best club football was played at Juve. The heart of the team. Wiki page.

Spoiler: Oliver Bierhoff (Udinese/Milan 1995-2000)

A large and prolific striker, Bierhoff was a strong, physical, and powerful player, who played mainly as a target man in the centre-forward role. Known in particular for his aerial ability, he was able to execute headers with extreme precision, having scored several critical goals in the air throughout his career, for both club and country; he also possessed a powerful shot. Serie A top scorer 97-98.

Giuseppe Signori

A player that rarely gets mentioned or used in drafts so we thought it would be good opportunity to showcase this magnificent striker especially in the context of this draft. Playing in one of the toughest and defensive leagues during the 90's it's quite the feat that Signori was Serie A top scorer in 92, 93 and 95 and Copa Italia top scorer in 92 and 97. In this period he scored 151 goals in 260 Serie A games, there is no doubt he is the best goalscorer in this draft. However he wasn't just a goal scorer or poacher he possessed fantastic pace and was a very good dribbler allowing him to create chances for himself and his team mates. He was often deployed as an inside left forward which also allowed him to work the channel to great effect and pick up the ball from deeper positions. He was also a great penalty and free kick taker, being only 1 of two players in Serie A history to score a hat trick from free kicks.

A short overview of his career at this link and some quotes from the article:

Each time Signori got the ball he was invariably a joy to watch, carrying it forward at pace and with excellent close control and, more often than not, carving a chance out for himself. The Olimpico always rose in anticipation when Signori had the ball, television viewers perched on the end of their seats, the excitement and expectation reaching a crescendo within. Perhaps there is something about watching left-footed players such as Signori, Maradona and Messi jinking and dribbling past opponents that makes the memories seem more magical and enthralling.

Signori was a prolific striker during his time at Lazio, topping the scoring charts on three occasions; an impressive feat considering he was playing in Serie A at a time when it contained similarly prolific and renowned goalscorers such as Gabriel Batistuta, Abel Balbo, Roberto Baggio, Gianluca Vialli, Daniel Fonseca, Gianfranco Zola, Fabrizio Ravanelli and Enrico Chiesa. Granted, Signori was also Lazio’s penalty taker and, with his distinctive one-step run-up defying the norm, one can rarely remember him missing from the spot.

Tactics

We haven't significantly changed our system from the last game, our best player Zidane remains in his favoured inside- left attacking midfield position and the team has been built around him. Karembeu and Desailly will be behind him creating a strong base to build from, while Boban will supplement our creative play from midfield, he will also drift wide right supporting Angloma in attack. The formation is flexible and the team can change fluidly according to match situations see the following:

We will also utilise Boban's fantastic engine which allows him to tuck back into midfield when defending. Also with bringing Desailly into the team we have a proven partnership with Boban, both winning 4 Serie A titles and Desailly 2 together.

To provide width we have Jarni and Angloma who can dart down the wings, with Signori linking up with Jarni on the left and Boban with Angloma on the right. With service from wide areas and Zidane in central areas, Bierhoff will have plenty of chances to score and in his Serie A form he is at the peak of his powers. We have two of the best goalscorers available in this draft, who guarantee goals:

Bierhoff is the ideal target man to have in our team who provides a different dimension to our attack with his physicality and heading ability. He will be able to hold the ball up and bring Signori, Zidane, Boban etc into play, he would also provide important knockdowns for our attackers to latch onto. With our full backs being good crossers and Zidane, Boban and Signori able to cross from deeper positions we are also equipped to utilise his heading. We also have one of the best dead ball specialists in Zidane, who can provide high quality set pieces for Bierhoff to take advantage of.

In defence, Vierchowod and Tudor will be at the heart, Vierchowod is one of the best Serie A defenders of all time and Tudor was one of Juve's best CB's during that period. Both are pure defenders, physical, intelligent and great in the air, they will be extremely tough to break down. Jarni and Angloma are the full backs, both defensively solid. In front of the defenders is Desailly, perhaps the best midfield destroyer of all time, the team has a very strong defensive spine. In goal Tacconi will provide that last line of defence, considered to be in the top 5 Italian keepers of all time.

 

[green_smiley]

Good luck @oneniltothearsenal @2mufc0 @Invictus

 

[2mufc0]

Thanks @green_smiley for setting this up.

 

[2mufc0]

Just a couple of points in response to onenils write up:

• We will most likely have Vierchowod on Baggio, while Tudor will be on Careca who was on the decline in the period.
• We have the better midfielders in terms of individual quality and fit. I think we have a better chance of controlling the midfield .

Other reasons why I think we have the edge is that Bierfhoff will cause a lot of problems for Billy because of his physicality and Signori will has a good match against a less agile Minotti. It's a good matchup for our strikers.

Onenils biggest threats are Baggio and Gullit we have Desailly and Vierchowod two of the best defensive players in this time frame to try and minimise their impact.

 

[idmanager]

Gullit right and Baggio left looks more tasty to me considering what they are facing.
Gullit and Zanetti against Jarni with Tudor covering is a huge plus point.

 

[2mufc0]

Gullit right and Baggio left looks more tasty to me considering what they are facing.
Gullit and Zanetti against Jarni with Tudor covering is a huge plus point.

Gullit being dragged off to the right would suit us, would mean onenil loses control of the midfield and allows Desailly to Drop back into defence to cover if necessary. It throws his formation off balance. Besides Chamot + Minotti is no better than our left side.

 

[harms]

It's obvious that this is a free-roaming interchanging unit but I don't like that particular picture with Gullit behind Careca and Baggio for whatever reason.
Gullit as a 10 also appears right in front of Desailly — one of the few players in the draft/in history even who are able to match his physicality.

 

[sincher]

Well this is a bit off isn't it, what with both of these teams actually going out last round, though both narrowly (and onenil losing one nil in a fine piece of sinch irony unnoticed by you lot), only to reappear like the twats with nine lives. Don't mention the results and all that, the cheeky fecking dickpieces!

Ah well, at least one of these dodgy bastards will be out this round, and it was onenil's lot whose hopes were snuffed out early in this one. You can't argue with their manager's Wenger-like levels of delusion though in the 'QuALite' of his team, with the brave tactic to try and 'control the midfield', lining up the let's face it second rate Cois, Dino Baggio and Marocchi against Desailly, Boban and Karembeu. 'LOL' as my son would probably say, irritatingly and yet accurately enough. In reality, the tactics were really the same as last round ('give it the ponytail'), only somehow this time he has been rebranded as 'divine'. Wasn't so divine when he missed that peno in the last round, eh one-nil? Decidedly mortal in fact, not to mention that surely anyone who aspires to immortal status probably wouldn't keep a weird rat-tail growth on the back of his head. Fine player, though, and all that.

Despite the undoubted quALite of the onenil attack, the disaster that was his midfield meant they couldn't get either the ponytail or Careca the cocking ball pretty much throughout the game. Their only major chance of the first half was forged when Tudor lost his head... at which point I will pause in the commentary for you all to think about and make the wonderful historical connection before groaning and moving on... and the ball was quickly shifted from the ponytail to Gullit, who fired narrowly wide, almost certainly scuppered by his hair getting in his eyes which surely must have been really annoying but anyway. Having missed that, they spent most of the rest of the half chasing shadows and being thoroughly fecked over by the big French bastards in the Invictus Idiots' midfield, which was remarkably still lining up in the 'romping rhombus' (CENSORED diamond) but had been given some proper shape at last with Desailly as its base, and was also boosted by some well-considered attacking options at full back. The inevitable first goal came along when Minotti, given the big buildup by his manager but still a notch below the better level of defender, played a hospital ball to Chamot and Boban nipped in to play a fine angled ball behind Costacurta to Signori. 1-0 Idiots, and to make matters worse Chamot had to go off having done his hammy stretching for the aforementioned shite ball.

Matters went from bad to worse, with Zidane and Boban starting to take the piss a bit, and although Jarni wasn't having much joy against Zanetti, Angloma was in acres of space up against Nooneatallo, and it was his cross that was nodded in by Bierhoff for their second, with still plenty of time left in the first half. A few minutes later, Christian Karembeu, somehow managing to steal himself away from his world record holding wife (longest legs for a supermodel - they met on a plane, apparently, I wonder if there were any snakes on it, aside from Christian's excited trouser version - I digress, though it has me thinking about Adriana now, and that can never be a bad thing, google her if you don't believe me) long enough to play this game, won the ball from the 'solid' (which we all know means 'slightly crap') Dino Baggio, who seemed a bit pissed off at having to share the pitch yet again with his considerably better namesake, and played in Signori again, who curled in a fine third with his immaculately cultured left peg.

In the second half ole Roberto, stroppy with his manager for picking such a dodgy midfield, decided to take matters into his own hands, and came deeper and deeper (which is making me think of Adriana again, stop it sinch and don't write 'in the hole' or this whole desk is going to rise up and make filing the rest of this report impossible) to get the ball. He nabbed one back for the Nihilists after beating Desailly, Karembeu and Vierochowodochowod with a wonderful run and slotting it past Tacconi. But it always looked like a consolation, and so it was. A few minutes later Cois brought down Zidane twenty yards from goal and after an unseemly twatabout between an admittedly crazy number of fine smackers of a dead ball, Signori fancied taking it home, and left Zidane and Boban to bicker a bit while he hit a lovely strike into the top left corner.

4-1 to the Idiots. Surprising at this stage of the tournie to see such an easy result. Fortunately for onenil he missed the whole thing , probably down the pub laughing with his mates about the midfield he picked.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Wel since the opposition started with three different formations I might as well add another.

@green_smiley please update OP with this formation

This iteration of the tactic removes both Gullit and Roberto from Desailly's influence and frees them both up to cause damage. Gullit and Zanetti can dominate the right wing.
With Dino Baggio as the best all around midfield on the pitch I should still hold the midfield battle with this iteration (Desailly is now covering Dino mostly).

Good luck @2mufc0 @Invictus solid team you built.

But as other matches have repeatedly mentioned, unless you are man marking Baggio with Vierchowod, its the attacker that will choose which defender to face not the other way around.

 

[Gio]

Nice switch.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Nice switch.

Cheers.

Here is how I envision some of the attacking variety and moves available here.

Gullit creating a goal from the right against Inter in 1991.

Spoiler: Gullit Creating Goal vs. Inter 1991

Careca is poised to make many runs like these to break apart the defensive line organization

Spoiler: Careca breaking down the defense

And Roberto Baggio is freed to be able to attack the CBs like this

Spoiler: Roberto Baggio attacking

 

[Invictus]

Can envision Zidane and Boban running riot with the latest switch - the primary tactic of our team was controlling games in midfield, and this makes that task considerably easier. And to be fair, it's a bit weird that Boban is going under the radar in some estimations when you could easily argue that he's an elite midfielder in this pool, a 4 Time Serie A winner, and a Hall of Fame player for Milan in some of their most successful years.





You have to wonder how well suited Sandro Cois is to stopping him and Zidane when they drift wider or attack as a combination through the middle.

 

[Invictus]

Additionally, Boban's influence as we see more of the ball in midfield will accentuate Signori's performances - to get an idea for what Signori can do in theory...

Spoiler

Boban's pass from central midfield:


Another Boban pass from central midfield:


More floated passes featuring Boban:


Combinations of Boban - Zidane - Signori in attacking midfield zones:

 

[Invictus]

Not to mention, Zidane's creativity and vision should be a phenomenal combination with Beppe - who was incredibly agile and always on the move - through balls in particular could be an X-factor for the duo:

Spoiler

Bit of Zidane magic and finishing touches by Beppe:

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

@Invictus please put all the gifs in spoilers please, I thought we decided on that rule before to not clog the thread for mobile viewers, its a bit much

Also, the difference between Zidane and Roberto Baggio is Roberto's best moments and greatest magic all came in Serie A. Zidane's best came in teh WC, Euros, and Champions League. In fact during these years it was no uncommon for fans to rate Figo or even Rivaldo and Mendieta higher than Zidane due to more consistent, top tier league form. Zizou often disapperared during matches at this time unlike Roberto Baggio in Serie A.

Even in 97/98 Baggio was the second highest rated player in Serie A (dbscalcio) whereas Zidane wasn't even Top 20 - Zidane won his Ballon due to the WC not his Serie A form. Roberto Baggio won his Ballon due to Serie A form.

Sandro Cois was an outstanding DM throughout the 90s who was very used to playing against top quality AMs and often getting the better of them. He won the Coppa Italia for Torino against a Roma side with Giannini, Häßler and Carnevale. He won another Coppa for Fiorentina and routinely went up against players like Del Piero and Zidane. He is going to give a sub-prime Zizou a torrid time.

Also if anyone is underrated its Dino Baggio. One of the most consistent and solid performers of the decade whose runs could produce crucial goals.

 

[Invictus]

Outstanding DM who will give Zidane a torrid time - which is why he was taken in the penultimate round of regulation draft with a weak midfield pool.

Onenil - 1. R. Baggio 2. A. Costacurta 3. D. Baggio 4. L. Minotti 5. Careca 6. J. Chamot 7. R. Mussi 8. F. Asprilla 9. G. Marocchi 10. Taglialatela 11. S. Cois

Sure, that's a very convincing argument - an afterthought, for lack of a better term, stopping the premier attacking midfield in this pool (Boban is still unaccounted for). And to the point about Baggio's best performances coming in '90s Serie A - we could extend the same argument in favor of Signori and Bierhoff - who shone bright in the decade - in contrast with Gullit and Careca - who either blew hot and cold at Milan before having a brief, mini-revival at Sampdoria - or were in their last years of European football at the start of the decade - in a state of perpetual decline.

That's 4 out of 10 years when a forward or striker from our team won Capocannoniere over the entire decade - the epitome of peak performance.

 

[harms]

Outstanding DM who will give Zidane a torrid time - which is why he was taken in the penultimate round of regulation draft with a weak midfield pool.

I agree that he isn't up to the task but I'm not a fan of this particular argument.

 

[antohan]

Outstanding DM who will give Zidane a torrid time - which is why he was taken in the penultimate round of regulation draft with a weak midfield pool.

Onenil - 1. R. Baggio 2. A. Costacurta 3. D. Baggio 4. L. Minotti 5. Careca 6. J. Chamot 7. R. Mussi 8. F. Asprilla 9. G. Marocchi 10. Taglialatela 11. S. Cois

That's a rubbish argument. Cois was the sort of tireless midfield workhorse that provided a platform for others to shine. Not fancy, not Desailly, but he can do the required job well enough (better than Karembeu as DM in your last game regardless of which round you picked him in).

 

[2mufc0]

Strange thing to say about Zidane, most football fans rate his best period for Juve. If we really want to talk about peaks Baggio was a top Serie A performer but it wasn’t on the left wing. His best position was second striker, how you started the game with actually, now you’ve shunted him to the left to shoehorn Gullit in too.

Just a reminder of Zidane at Juve as his credentials are being called into question.

 

[antohan]

I like the switch from @oneniltothearsenal, particularly seeing as Vierchowod is supposed to follow Baggio everywhere.

@2mufc0 and @Invictus have more in their midfield locker though.

 

[2mufc0]

That's a rubbish argument. Cois was the sort of tireless midfield workhorse that provided a platform for others to shine. Not fancy, not Desailly, but he can do the required job well enough (better than Karembeu as DM in your last game regardless of which round you picked him in).

He may well be able to do a job against most players but he’s up against one of the best attacking midfielders in the draft, just doing a job won’t cut it , you need a much better player to contain these types of players. Imagine you came up against him in your first game against Rui Costa, he would be one of the weakest players in the team to target.

 

[Gio]

Sandro Cois was an outstanding DM throughout the 90s who was very used to playing against top quality AMs and often getting the better of them. He won the Coppa Italia for Torino against a Roma side with Giannini, Häßler and Carnevale. He won another Coppa for Fiorentina and routinely went up against players like Del Piero and Zidane. He is going to give a sub-prime Zizou a torrid time.

Also if anyone is underrated its Dino Baggio. One of the most consistent and solid performers of the decade whose runs could produce crucial goals.

Agree with both of these points. Both rock solid midfielders IMO. And you have to remember that a major reason so many superb attacking midfielders struggled in Serie A was because of midfielders like Cois, Baggio or various others whose defensive application just ground them down.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Roberto is still playing as a second striker just shifted out to attack the inside left more to balance Gullit on the right.

To me the key is synergies. Careca, Roberto and Gullit all bring out the best in each other. It's a fluid front three designed to unbalance the opposition. I'm not clear if Vierchowod is supposed to be man marking or not but this is a unit that achieves more than the sum of its parts. Careca can roam and open up space. The Gullit-Zanetti flank is going to constantly overwhelm their opponents forcing them to shift over to support.

Conversely the sub-prime Zidane - Oliver combo doesn't have the same level of synergy at all. Zidane did his best with a roaming poacher more than a target man like Oliver. Oliver isn't getting the service he did his best on. Also Minotti did superb covering stoppers against the best SerieA attackers in the 90s.
Ultimately out tactic covers the strengths of the opponents while exploiting their weak points.
We maintain this tactical advantage over our opponents.

 

[Enigma_87]

That's a rubbish argument. Cois was the sort of tireless midfield workhorse that provided a platform for others to shine. Not fancy, not Desailly, but he can do the required job well enough (better than Karembeu as DM in your last game regardless of which round you picked him in).

Yeah, I'd probably echo that. The pool itself isn't that big in terms of top class #10's, hence the necessity for a world class DM on the other end isn't priority. Especially as it was expected most sides to field some sort of 4-4-2 or 3-5-2/5-3-2 which is quite common for the time frame as well.

 

[2mufc0]

Not sure why Zidane can’t play with a target man, it’s not like he played with Del Piero’s all his career.

Crossing is absolutely a part of our team's tactics, not to mention the quality dead ball specialists we have . It's not a core tenet by any means - most of our play goes through Zidane/Boban/Signori - but if the central regions become too condensed, we have an different route with Bierhoff- that's a great auxiliary weapon in our armory.

 

[2mufc0]

Yeah, I'd probably echo that. The pool itself isn't that big in terms of top class #10's, hence the necessity for a world class DM on the other end isn't priority. Especially as it was expected most sides to field some sort of 4-4-2 or 3-5-2/5-3-2 which is quite common for the time frame as well.

But at the same time it has to count for something, esp when The opposition is fielding Desailly, the fact that it was so difficult for AMs should then elevate Zidane’s achievements.

Honestly there’s a huge gulf in the quality of our midfields, there’s no way onenil will control this game as he claims. Now Baggio is also playing second striker in a 3 man attack, just sounds disjointed.

 

[sincher]

Also if anyone is underrated its Dino Baggio. One of the most consistent and solid performers of the decade whose runs could produce crucial goals.

Like Mike Phelan you mean?

These are words reserved for the shitter footballers. People probably use them about Darmian.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

@2mufc0
That's exactly the type of post i was hoping to avoid in the QFs. An example from the 2000s, on the Champions League, for Real Madrid could not be more irrelevant.

And the point is more any tactic that gets the most out of Oliver is not going to get the most out of Zizou and the rest. Their best games are suited to different tactical styles imo. It's just not as synergistic a combo is all. And of the misfieldes Karembau has the weakest 90s serie a resume.

 

[Enigma_87]

But at the same time it has to count for something, esp when The opposition is fielding Desailly, the fact that it was so difficult for AMs should then elevate Zidane’s achievements.

Honestly there’s a huge gulf in the quality of our midfields, there’s no way onenil will control this game as he claims. Now Baggio is also playing second striker in a 3 man attack, just sounds disjointed.

Yeah, of course, you guys have the better midfield as a unit and in terms of quality. Especially if Gullit is with more advanced role.

Think in terms of matchups you have the better midfield and most probably will control the game. On the other hand I like onenil's defence better and also being pretty good on that side to counter Signori - Zanetti and Costacurta combo.

The attacks is on par perhaps with Zidane being the one pulling the strings, but I really like the Careca/Baggio/Gullit in terms of synergy.

Will look a bit more in this after the discussion gets going

 

[2mufc0]

@2mufc0
That's exactly the type of post i was hoping to avoid in the QFs. An example from the 2000s, on the Champions League, for Real Madrid could not be more irrelevant.

And the point is more any tactic that gets the most out of Oliver is not going to get the most out of Zizou and the rest. Their best games are suited to different tactical styles imo. It's just not as synergistic a combo is all. And of the misfieldes Karembau has the weakest 90s serie a resume.

It is relevant in dispelling the myth that Zidane can’t play with a target man, nothing more , I’m not using his performances in that season to sell him, as you can see above I used his Juve video to showcase his talents.

 

[2mufc0]

Yeah, of course, you guys have the better midfield as a unit and in terms of quality. Especially if Gullit is with more advanced role.

Think in terms of matchups you have the better midfield and most probably will control the game. On the other hand I like onenil's defence better and also being pretty good on that side to counter Signori - Zanetti and Costacurta combo.

The attacks is on par perhaps with Zidane being the one pulling the strings, but I really like the Careca/Baggio/Gullit in terms of synergy.

Will look a bit more in this after the discussion gets going

To be fair Zanetti is in his perfect position and can’t argue about that.

In any other draft I would say yes those three make a great combination, if the context of this draft means anything his attack isn’t that great in terms of setup and having players in their peak positions.

Careca- played his best football in the 80s

Gullit - again best football in the 80s, but was good for Sampdoria , but in that team he played in a central position not out wide like he is here.

Baggio - great in the 90s but again in central positions, not left wing as shown here.

So no I don’t think the synergy is that great when players are playing out of their best positions.

In our attack all the attackers are playing in their preferred peak positions and they have no one as creative as Boban in their midfield, who is getting overlooked here.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

It is relevant in dispelling the myth that Zidane can’t play with a target man, nothing more , I’m not using his performances in that season to sell him, as you can see above I used his Juve video to showcase his talents.

No that match doesn't even exist. For the purposes of this draft it is Serie A/Coppa Italia in the 1990s.
Especially matches that hadn't happened yet chronologically do not even exist in this universe and cannot be used as evidence for anything.

For this draft 2000s Zidane does not exist. Zidane's top form was always in the CL and NT, which is literally non-existent for this draft. So that example is just out of bounds. Yellow card worthy even.

Also it should be noted that Vierchowod's best football was also in the 80s while Tudor is the weakest CB on the pitch by a margin.

To summarize, Roberto Baggio - Careca - Gullit as my gifs from the 90s show are very well suited to breaking down this defense, whereas on the opposite end our defense anchored by Minotti-Costacurta(in his prime)-Zanetti is well matched to shut down the most dangerous threats.

 

[2mufc0]

No that match doesn't even exist. For the purposes of this draft it is Serie A/Coppa Italia in the 1990s.
Especially matches that hadn't happened yet chronologically do not even exist in this universe and cannot be used as evidence for anything.

For this draft 2000s Zidane does not exist. Zidane's top form was always in the CL and NT, which is literally non-existent for this draft. So that example is just out of bounds. Yellow card worthy even.

.

In that case I’ll edit the post and substitute Morientes for Inzaghi/Vieiri who were hardly technical/finesse players. The point stands.

Zidane a key player in Serie A wins in 96-97 and 97-98 .

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

In that case I’ll edit the post and substitute Morientes for Inzaghi/Vieiri who were hardly technical/finesse players. The point stands.

Zidane a key player in Serie A wins in 96-97 and 97-98 .

Hence my point about Roberto Baggio just being on another level to Zidane in this draft. Even the year Zidane won the Ballon he wasn't even in the Top 20 of Dbscalcio ratings for Serie A whereas Baggio was no.2 (behind Totti)! Its just the way it was. Zidane's best came out in the WC, CL and Euros and that is what his legend, even his Juventus legend is built upon. He was regularly mentioned to be disinterested during some Serie A matches. Roberto Baggio is just another level of match winner here.

 

[2mufc0]

Hence my point about Roberto Baggio just being on another level to Zidane in this draft. Even the year Zidane won the Ballon he wasn't even in the Top 20 of Dbscalcio ratings for Serie A whereas Baggio was no.2 (behind Totti)! Its just the way it was. Zidane's best came out in the WC, CL and Euros and that is what his legend, even his Juventus legend is built upon. He was regularly mentioned to be disinterested during some Serie A matches. Roberto Baggio is just another level of match winner here.

Not sure if being serious anymore. Guess this was awarded for CL/National Team matches as well...

1997 Zinedine Zidane Juventus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_Foreign_Footballer_of_the_Year

And the debate is not about Zidane vs Baggio so not sure why you are steering the subject that way.

But whilst you have mentioned Baggio ,on a side point Baggio was fantastic, but not out on the left wing as you have him here.

 

[antohan]

But at the same time it has to count for something, esp when The opposition is fielding Desailly, the fact that it was so difficult for AMs should then elevate Zidane’s achievements.

Desailly isn't dealing with Cois, he is in some sort of no man's land with no specific target and dropping in defence to cover (a good thing by all means).

Conversely, Cois is very much the sort that can upset someone like Zidane. The big question mark for me is more how Boban is being dealt with, not Zidane if Cois is onto him with Dino Baggio's support.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Not sure if being serious anymore. Guess this was awarded for CL/National Team matches as well...

1997 Zinedine Zidane Juventus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_Foreign_Footballer_of_the_Year

And the debate is not about Zidane vs Baggio so not sure why you are steering the subject that way.

But whilst you have mentioned Baggio ,on a side point Baggio was fantastic, but not out on the left wing as you have him here.

Thing about those awards is you can't really separate voters from being influenced by things like the CL. And that was wasn't the year I meant anywhere it was this one:
https://i.imgur.com/x6MKbsZ.jpg

And I already said Roberto is not on the left wing and the formation even depicts him on the inside left half-space so that's just false claims.

 

[antohan]

Like Mike Phelan you mean?

These are words reserved for the shitter footballers. People probably use them about Darmian.

Nonsense. Dino Baggio is easily the most complete all round midfielder on the pitch. Second is arguably Marocchi actually.

It is however a rather workmanlike midfield whereas Zidane-Boban offer a lot more creatively while balanced out well by Karembeu-Desailly.

Balanced specialists vs. strong all-rounders. Different approaches, I also see the former doing well here, but no need to talk shit about the individuals if they aren't your cup of tea.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Also I don't just have the Baggio route to goal. I don't see anything that is going to stop Gullit-Zanetti now. That side with Jarni and Tudor covering is going to be under tremendous pressure now and IMO cannot handle this pressure. I don't see how Jarni and his deputized helpers in Tudor and Karembeu can stop the Black Tulip and the Tractor. That flank is going to constantly get deconstructed which in turn opens up opportunities for both Dino and Roberto.

 

[sincher]

Nonsense. Dino Baggio is easily the most complete all round midfielder on the pitch. Second is arguably Marocchi actually.

It is however a rather workmanlike midfield whereas Zidane-Boban offer a lot more creatively while balanced out well by Karembeu-Desailly.

Balanced specialists vs. strong all-rounders. Different approaches, I also see the former doing well here, but no need to talk shit about the individuals if they aren't your cup of tea.

So serious