Scholes

[sebaveron]

Anyone notice that Scholesy had a poor game tonight (by hi shigh standards) - he gave the ball away regularly - just didn't happen for him 2day I'm not knocking him in anyway - im just saying he wasnt a main man and didnt perform.

To be quite honest Veron was one of our "better" players tonight!
But yet again a sloppy individual error cost us a BIG match.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by sebaveron:
<strong>But yet again a sloppy individual error cost us a BIG match.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Team selection didn't help.

 

[golden_blunder]

Originally posted by sebaveron:
<strong>To be quite honest Veron was one of our "better" players tonight!
</strong><hr></blockquote>

you are fecking shitting me right?? apart from one good ball over the top and 2 good tackles he did feck all. in fact his sloppy passes cost us possession on more than one occasion, especially first half. Its no coincidence that it was him that made way first IMO. Is that the last time we see him in the United red? i sure as well fecking hope so. Did anyone read Keano's quotes earlier today? its not hard to work out he was talking about Veron.
sell him and bring in Dyer.

 

[hassan]

i dont see how anyone can blame seba for tonights result(some ppl are),the truth is that he was magnificent tonight,he is catching up.scholes looked out of sorts tonight.it happens,but all in all lets not be sore losers.CONGRATULATIONS ARSENAL....WE'LL BE BACK NEXT SEASON!!!!!!!

 

[pjaya]

Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong>

you are fecking shitting me right?? apart from one good ball over the top and 2 good tackles he did feck all. in fact his sloppy passes cost us possession on more than one occasion, especially first half. Its no coincidence that it was him that made way first IMO. Is that the last time we see him in the United red? i sure as well fecking hope so. Did anyone read Keano's quotes earlier today? its not hard to work out he was talking about Veron.
sell him and bring in Dyer.</strong><hr></blockquote>



Oh! here goes another witch hunter....
forget about whose wrong or right.
It's over already... no point of blaming anyone.
It's just that we lost to a better team tonight.

 

[golden_blunder]

im not blaming Veron for losing. Im just disagreeing with the thread starter that Veron was one of the "better" players.
bollox, if he was Fergie wouldnt have subbed him when we were chasing the game.

 

[golden_blunder]

Its not a witch hunt. if youd be around all season you would have known id been silent about Veron up until a few weeks ago, giving him the benefit of the doubt. But now its over, IMO Veron is not suited to our team or English football. But hey, thats just my opinion and thats what being a fan is all about.

 

[Amir]

I believe Fergie replaced Seba as he was hobbling again, obviously the achilles problem flared. As usual, Veron was no better or worse than anyone else, but it's rather obvious that we do need to make sure we have the players to keep our regular 4-4-2 if players are out. No Beckham+Chadwick not impressive means we have no right wing danger.


And as usual, I find Livvie's claim that 'Team selection hasn't helped' annoying. So RVN was left on the bench, so what? I assume you mean that, as there were no real other changes realistically possible.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

And as usual, I find Livvie's claim that 'Team selection hasn't helped' annoying. So RVN was left on the bench, so what? I assume you mean that, as there were no real other changes realistically possible.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What I mean, is that against our biggest rivals we should play our best players.

Van Nistelrooy is a proven match winner. Forlan isn't. Not yet anyway.

 

[Red down under]

I think Veron has shown glimpses of greatness this season and I hope he's with us for another one - injury free. However, there are a number of our squad now who just aren't good enough to come in. I'm thinking about players like Fortune and, so far, Forlan. They just do not give us any options. Forlan is young so maybe he'll improve but Fortune just doesn't cut it. I thought Wes played really well tonight though and it's great to see him back in form. If O'Shea can come on a bit more we might be a bit stronger in defence next time.

Scholes wasn't the only one who looked like he needed a holiday. Pity the World Cup is gonna take it's toll too.

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

What I mean, is that against our biggest rivals we should play our best players.

Van Nistelrooy is a proven match winner. Forlan isn't. Not yet anyway.</strong><hr></blockquote>

None of us see what Alex sees in practise or the reaction he gets from players. Last season he brought Yorke out of the deep freeze against Arsenal, and boy did it work. As it so happens, Ruud was no better and possible contributed less than Forlan. I actually would liked to have seen Ruud's strength and Forlan's speed, but like everything, it remains a question unanswered.

Oh well, just another thing to add to the shopping cart this summer... a striker with the ability to make immidiate impact. We've relied too heavily on Ruud this season.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>


Oh well, just another thing to add to the shopping cart this summer... a striker with the ability to make immidiate impact. We've relied too heavily on Ruud this season.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I seem to recall both Ruud and OGS coming on and making an immediate impact several times this season.

You're not going to find a striker who will perform miracles every time they take the field.

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

I seem to recall both Ruud and OGS coming on and making an immediate impact several times this season.

You're not going to find a striker who will perform miracles every time they take the field.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually I meant we needed a striker to complete our quartet, and unlike Forlan, we need someone who doesn't need a lot of time to adjust. We've put too much pressure on Ruud because of the big shift we've had upfront since Teddy left.

 

[pigface]

Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong> Veron...sell him and bring in Dyer.</strong><hr></blockquote>

you are joking right, sell veron and bring in a player who spends most of his time out with injuries... don't be so jaded!!!

 

[pjaya]

Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong>Its not a witch hunt. if youd be around all season you would have known id been silent about Veron up until a few weeks ago, giving him the benefit of the doubt. But now its over, IMO Veron is not suited to our team or English football. But hey, thats just my opinion and thats what being a fan is all about.</strong><hr></blockquote>

My appologies and I fully understand your opinion.
(just that too many ppl here knock Veron off)

Since Veron is more suited to italian league (which many ppl here claimed) and not to the physical English game, how then could Nesta or Thuram suitable for us or english game?

and even if we do buy over them next season, can we safetly says that we will not have any defensive problems?

So which do you preferred?, Spending spree or keep the same team for one more year.?

 

[sidekicker]

Pjaya

keep the team unchanged ? You must be kidding.
Just see how bad we were doing this seasson and just make a simple comparison with the defence power of Liv and Arse .....
Then you must know what I mean.
We gotta do something immediately to put ourselves on the right track, if not, Arse could possibly extend their run ...... <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />

 

[pjaya]

Originally posted by sidekicker:
<strong>Pjaya

keep the team unchanged ? You must be kidding.
Just see how bad we were doing this seasson and just make a simple comparison with the defence power of Liv and Arse .....
Then you must know what I mean.
We gotta do something immediately to put ourselves on the right track, if not, Arse could possibly extend their run ...... <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>


No, I'm not kidding.

Just because one season we have problem with the
defence, we have to change to whole back?
Ok just says that we do change the back, then if the problem still persists, then what? change again?

 

[uranushk1]

I won't blame Veron at all in this match. Watching him playing in pain was not a pleasant thing. May be Fergie should not let him play in this match in the first place.

 

[lchk]

Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong>

you are fecking shitting me right?? apart from one good ball over the top and 2 good tackles he did feck all. in fact his sloppy passes cost us possession on more than one occasion, especially first half. Its no coincidence that it was him that made way first IMO. Is that the last time we see him in the United red? i sure as well fecking hope so. Did anyone read Keano's quotes earlier today? its not hard to work out he was talking about Veron.
sell him and bring in Dyer.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, if Veron is sold, use the money for DEFENCE, DEFENCE, DEFENCE!!

 

[Livvie]

Paul Scholes is a United player thru and thru.

I can't understand any United supporter who would want to sell him.

I would sooner watch United with eleven true reds playing, than watch a new version of Chelsea.

My concern is not whether or not we win trophies in the future, but that we might win trophies with a team full of big foreign names, who may be the best in the world, but they won't be United.

I'd prefer to watch United next year with players like Scholes, than to know we sold our heart for success.

 

[pjaya]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Paul Scholes is a United player thru and thru.

I can't understand any United supporter who would want to sell him.

I would sooner watch United with eleven true reds playing, than watch a new version of Chelsea.

My concern is not whether or not we win trophies in the future, but that we might win trophies with a team full of big foreign names, who may be the best in the world, but they won't be United.

I'd prefer to watch United next year with players like Scholes, than to know we sold our heart for success.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well writen. Therefore, do you think it is best for United to bring up our reserved or youth squad than to raid the market for such and such players?

 

[An Extremely Boring Man]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Paul Scholes is a United player thru and thru.

I can't understand any United supporter who would want to sell him.

I would sooner watch United with eleven true reds playing, than watch a new version of Chelsea.

My concern is not whether or not we win trophies in the future, but that we might win trophies with a team full of big foreign names, who may be the best in the world, but they won't be United.

I'd prefer to watch United next year with players like Scholes, than to know we sold our heart for success.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Spot on

P.S Sell Ole

 

[uranushk1]

Originally posted by pjaya:
<strong>

Well writen. Therefore, do you think it is best for United to bring up our reserved or youth squad than to raid the market for such and such players?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course home-grown player is preferred -- if good ones are available. It seems O'Shea and Chadwick deserved to be given more chance in next season. We should also try to find some bargain buy in the market.

 

[pjaya]

Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>

Of course home-grown player is preferred -- if good ones are available. It seems O'Shea and Chadwick deserved to be given more chance in next season. We should also try to find some bargain buy in the market.</strong><hr></blockquote>

But it's really quite difficult to find proven defender in bargain price bracket. What I'm afraid is that if any big name defender sign for us and our problem still persists, then what should we do? buy again?

 

[Van Man]

IMO must sell Scholes (not Veron) for around 20m and buy world class striker!!!!1

 

[mu77]

"you are fecking shitting me right?? apart from one good ball over the top and 2 good tackles he did feck all. in fact his sloppy passes cost us possession on more than one occasion, especially first half."

which is more then PS did for the side. PS is MU through and through but to be honest he's played like sh1te most of the year for a variety of reasons. the only tackles he made were suspect at best!

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by mu77:
<strong>"you are fecking shitting me right?? apart from one good ball over the top and 2 good tackles he did feck all. in fact his sloppy passes cost us possession on more than one occasion, especially first half."

which is more then PS did for the side. PS is MU through and through but to be honest he's played like sh1te most of the year for a variety of reasons. the only tackles he made were suspect at best!</strong><hr></blockquote>
How many goals has scholes scored in his worst season for us ever, vs. Veron? Has he ever been any good for us? Scholes ain't the problem, how he's been used (abused) this season is.

 

[mu77]

How many goals has scholes scored in his worst season for us ever, vs. Veron? Has he ever been any good for us? Scholes ain't the problem, how he's been used (abused) this season is.

my point is that PS hasn't played well "for a variety of reasons". has PS had to adjust to a new league? would he be able to? yes saf has f'd around w/ PS but , PS has not been as effective. he is also not a ceative force in the ctr. of MDF.
i don't want PS gone , nor do i think jsv needs to be blamed for every loss suffered by MU this yr.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by pjaya:
<strong>

Well writen. Therefore, do you think it is best for United to bring up our reserved or youth squad than to raid the market for such and such players?</strong><hr></blockquote>


I would prefer to see home grown. But you don't get players like Beckham and co. all coming thru together very often.

Next best thing to home grown is inexpensive English or foreign, preferably Dutch or Scandinavian.

Big names like Ruud are a one off - he fitted into the team like he'd always been part of it, and you get the impression that he is a United fan as well as a player.

 

[AhmedDimwitson]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


Next best thing to home grown is inexpensive English or foreign, preferably Dutch or Scandinavian.

Big names like Ruud are a one off - he fitted into the team like he'd always been part of it, and you get the impression that he is a United fan as well as a player.</strong><hr></blockquote>

They all know the language, but one thing that's bad with the dutch is the whinging temperament. Ruud has been superb in this department, no problems. But then you get the Kluiverts, de Boers, JFH and JAAP STAM who writes a book. Think English is the way to go but English players are definately over-priced.

 

[kemo]

Scholes was as bad as he haas been al season just like Veron. Next year will be different!

 

[christiepark_boy]

Scholes played poorly last night.....he charged around like a man with no brains and contributed to the generally manic mood, diving into tackles too early, and neutralising his own effectiveness once he was booked.

The real question is why ??? Paul Scholes is part of everything that has been great, truly great, about this team, and of everything it has achieved. This season he's lost confidence and a sense of his own worth to the team. That's a managerial cock-up of no small consequence.

Next season lets stop trying to work out how best to fit Veron into the team, but how to get the best attacking midfield player in England to enjoy playing for us again.

 

[golden_blunder]

Originally posted by christiepark_boy:
<strong>Next season lets stop trying to work out how best to fit Veron into the team, but how to get the best attacking midfield player in England to enjoy playing for us again.</strong><hr></blockquote>

well said that man

 

[Livvie]

I find it hard to believe that a lot of the Seba followers, are the same ones who throw the gloryseeker insult around when anyone dares criticise tactics, players, or the manager.

Yet why would anyone prefer Seba to Scholes, if it wasn't because he cost 28 million, and is perceived as the player who will lead us to success.

Well I've nowt against Seba, and will be quite happy if he stays. But I wouldn't have him at the expense of Scholes.

Our midfield of Giggs, Becks, Keane and Scholes, is the best. And we have Butt to back up. Our front pair have become one of the top in Europe. It's at the back where the problems lie, and if we stabilise that, we'll be fine.

That's not knocking Veron. Just my personal preference for the midfield and the attack.

 

[golden_blunder]

totally agree with you Liv.

 

[dicko]

I hate to say it but Arsenal won the double because they were/are the best side this season.

We need to improve. We can't improve midfield (Beckham, Keane, Scholes/Veron, Giggs) much. A fourth striker to replace Yorke is required but the area where we can most improve is defence.

At best the defence is reasonable - despite the best midfield and good strikers we didn't win the league.

I would keep Gary Neville and Silvestre as full backs but we must improve central defence. Johnsen is injured too often, Wes Brown has not progressed (A couple of years ago he was a better prospect than Ferdinand, now he is clearly behind). Perhaps we can keep him longer and hope he turns things round. O'Shea is very promising but needs more time. Blanc is great but nearing the end.

We should try to buy two world class centre backs ( Ayala, Nesta, Thuram standard). Thuram appeals because he is old enough to make way for O'Shea or Brown in a couple of years, I don't like being forced to sell good youngsters.

This will cost money and the board won't allow unless we get $20-30m from sales. The only way is to sell an excess midfielder - Veron or Scholes.

I think it has to be Veron because Scholes has achieved more at united. Veron is a great player and I would love him to stay but I don't thimk we can fix our problems without the money from selling a big name player. Seb - if you stay or go I wish you the best and hope you prove the critics wrong.

 

[christiepark_boy]

Agreed ...when the Beckham, Keane, Scholes, Giggs midfield first hit success five years ago , the line was how great they would be when they were at their peak.....the top european clubs must be laughing their socks off that we've confused ourselves this season over where our true strengths (and weaknesses) lie.