Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

choccy77 said:
I was just using Finnish as an example, I don't know exactly where they originate from, but simply saying the quality is poor, as they struggle to understand what the native speaker is saying it seems which makes it difficult to really know what is being said clearly.
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I didn't want to come across as attacking you personally, I just find it a shame that the UK is not looking more towards continental Europe, even before Brexit.

In any case, that translator was atrocious and I cannot believe he was paid to do that job.
 
Ravelation said:
Who does the senseless killing of Civillians , and non-hostile places benefit?

  • Russia face more sanctions/opposition via worldwide media and increased resistance from the Ukranian military/people.
  • Ukraine gain the backing of the western world + beyond, Nato & EU support.
I'm not implying a conspiracy theory, I'm trying to understand the Russian viewpoint that they've not in any shape committed these war crimes.

The argument this man makes is an intelligent viewpoint, and with any disagreement or conflict it is necessary to understand the ability to be proven incorrect.
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To be fair I don;t think it is their intention to commit any of those war crimes at this stage yet, despite the invasion. Accidents do occur in war, and there are far more soldiers dying than civilians so far, and far more military facilities being destroyed rather than the civilians buildings, which further proves their point.

I've heard there are also suggestion that some of those so called war crimes are actually committed by Ukraine soldiers themselves (either by accident when trying to defend against Russian, or according to conspiracy theory for the intention to gain more backing of the west), and I've seen nothing much from the Russian soldiers trying to threaten the live of civilians directly being shown from any of these camera footage, except probably the tank crushing civilian car (but it was later reported that the tank wasn't from Russian, and its just an accident), or the missile hitting the residential building (it was later reported the missile was mis-fired by Ukraine anti aircraft missile). So far I would say in general they do take this primiarily as an military operation to destroy military/goernment facilities, and to avoid hurting any civilians, which is something I think Putin wouldn't be stupid to commit, as he still need support from his people to buy his propaganda and justify such invasion. But of course, after their primary goal is achieved, whatever comes next nobody would know, I doubt the Russian army would just leave the country without doing anything else after their military operation to "neutralise" Ukraine. They invaded Crimea back in 2014, they still have Crimea today.

So I think its more about which side of propaganda people are being subjected to. For the Ukraine people and the west, Russian invaders are evil as they are invading their home country by military means, destroying the buildings/facilities and causing lives of people. For Russian soldiers, they are missioned to do what they have been told and ordered, to neutralise Ukraine military force and to liberty the people of Ukraine.
 
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RedRonaldo said:
To be fair I don;t think it is their intention to commit any of those war crimes at this stage yet, despite the invasion. Accidents do occur in war, and there are far more soldiers dying than civilians so far, and far more military facilities being destroyed rather than the civilians buildings, which further proves their point.

I've heard there are also suggestion that some of those so called war crimes are actually committed by Ukraine soldiers themselves (either by accident when trying to defend against Russian, or according to conspiracy theory for the intention to gain more backing of the west), and I've seen nothing much from the Russian soldiers trying to threaten the live of civilians directly being shown from any of these camera footage, except probably the tank crushing civilian car (but it was later been reported that the tank wasn't from Russian, and its just an accident), or the missile hitting the residential building (it was later reported the missile was mis-fired by Ukraine anti aircraft missile). So far I would say in general they do take this primiarily as an military operation to destroy military facilities, and to avoid hurting any civilians, which is something I think Putin wouldn't be stupid to commit, as he still need support from his people to buy his propaganda and justify such invasion. But of course, after their primary goal is achieved, whatever comes next nobody would know, I doubt the Russian army would just leave the country without doing anything else after their military operation to "neutralise" Ukraine.

So I think its more about which side of propaganda people are being subjected to. For the Ukraine people and the west, Russian invaders are evil as they are invading their home country by military means, destroying the buildings/facilities and causing lives of people. For Russian soldiers, they are trying to do what they have been told and ordered, to neutralise Ukraine military force and to liberty the people of Ukraine.
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I smell bullshit but I cannot post some NSFW videos to counter.
 
Ravelation said:
Who does the senseless killing of Civillians , and non-hostile places benefit?

  • Russia face more sanctions/opposition via worldwide media and increased resistance from the Ukranian military/people.
  • Ukraine gain the backing of the western world + beyond, Nato & EU support.
I'm not implying a conspiracy theory, I'm trying to understand the Russian viewpoint that they've not in any shape committed these war crimes.

The argument this man makes is an intelligent viewpoint, and with any disagreement or conflict it is necessary to understand the ability to be proven incorrect.
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Putin doesn't care about sanctions as much as his bloodthirsty conquest to restore the former Soviet Union to its glory.

It's ridiculously simple, yet ridiculous all the same.
 
Rightnr said:
This post shows the lack of diversity in UK media and inherent bias. I already pointed out yesterday that Euronews had a much better translator than BBC and Euronews is barely getting a mention (even Al Jazeera got a look in).

I won't even comment on the implication that it has to be a Finnish person translating, as if Eastern European people who speak Russian don't speak good English.

On a slightly separate note, I find it pathetic journalists of the BBC stationed in Russia have to find English speaking Russians instead of getting a correspondent who speaks the local language. Similar in Ukraine as well although you can somewhat forgive it because there's so many journalists on the ground.
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To be fair, journalists generally cover multiple countries/whole regions - for example Asia correspondent etc. US is one of the few countries that has its own reporters. They also (more often than not) swap out after a few years bit the ones I've worked with do pick up enough to get buy but not enough to usually just confidently report on like a normal broadcast.

BBC is a bit different though I guess because their World Service is fecking massive so they should have enough people there who are bilingual, or have good access to freelance reporters
 
Regardless of what you feel about Ukraine and Russia as countries and what they've done in tha past, and what actions you think NATO needs to take, it's not really debatable at this stage who's the overall "bad guy" when Russia has decided to invade a sovereign country and is now laying siege to a city roughly the size of San Diego. (counting metropolitan area)

Can't believe people still are debating over this.
 
Rightnr said:
I didn't want to come across as attacking you personally, I just find it a shame that the UK is not looking more towards continental Europe, even before Brexit.

In any case, that translator was atrocious and I cannot believe he was paid to do that job.
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Yeah, I never thought you were.

I was just shocked how the BBC could employ someone to translate and literally there was like 30 odd seconds of dead air, because the guy translating had no idea what was being said.

And it was taped not live, so I'm sure he would have had a couple of opportunities to listen to it.

Just really appalling.
 
Regardless of how this war turns out, Putin loses out in the long term because his new puppet regime will be constantly disrupted by insurgencies, their economy and world standing has gone to shit, and will eventually have to foot the bill for the tremendous property values and more importantly, lives lost due to his egomaniac thirst for an impossible goal.

And the only ones that will suffer most, besides obviously Ukranians, are the average Russian who did nothing wrong but will have their savings wiped and see themselves and their culture hated worldwide for a long time.
 
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Was back in the office today and saw most of my colleagues for the first time in a while. My team is very multinational with a strong European bias.

I have one Polish colleague and two Russian ones. My Polish colleague actually has her family roots close to the Ukrainian border and talking with my Russian colleagues, it's infuriating what Putin has done in splitting families and ruining people's lives.

I won't even mention how me and my other colleagues coming from EE originally have so much more in common than the number of our differences. Again, for anyone trying to justify this as Putin being pushed close to the brink, you seriously have no idea how similar these two nations are (Ukraine and Russia).
 
Winrar said:
Regardless of what you feel about Ukraine and Russia as countries and what they've done in tha past, and what actions you think NATO needs to take, it's not really debatable at this stage who's the overall "bad guy" when Russia has decided to invade a sovereign country and is now laying siege to a city roughly the size of San Diego. (counting metropolitan area)

Can't believe people still are debating over this.
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Is anyone really debating who the bad guys are?
 
Winrar said:
Regardless of what you feel about Ukraine and Russia as countries and what they've done in tha past, and what actions you think NATO needs to take, it's not really debatable at this stage who's the overall "bad guy" when Russia has decided to invade a sovereign country and is now laying siege to a city roughly the size of San Diego. (counting metropolitan area)

Can't believe people still are debating over this.
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Even if the scope of the post was limited to be from Ukrainian special forces to Russian artillerymen it was still pretty short sighted to post. As people have highlighted Ukraine has the goodwill of the word and they don’t need to squander that, feeding bad faith actors and the Russian propaganda machine.

On the other hand, Ukraine is being held to an impossible standard: don’t just defend your country against a far greater enemy, but do so whilst minimising Russian deaths and without using photos and videos from the field to combat the Russian disinformation campaign.

I’m not sure I’m in any position to tell those defending their country that the better thing to do is not liquidate that entire artillery unit that would continue to do their “job” until your city is razed to the ground, and instead look to let them decide when they’ve had enough.

We seem to have a disproportionate energy on certain things here.
 
Rightnr said:
Was back in the office today and saw most of my colleagues for the first time in a while. My team is very multinational with a strong European bias.

I have one Polish colleague and two Russian ones. My Polish colleague actually has her family roots close to the Ukrainian border and talking with my Russian colleagues, it's infuriating what Putin has done in splitting families and ruining people's lives.

I won't even mention how me and my other colleagues coming from EE originally have so much more in common than the number of our differences. Again, for anyone trying to justify this as Putin being pushed close to the brink, you seriously have no idea how similar these two nations are (Ukraine and Russia).
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My company (US based) has basically issue a statement over email today to say they are deeply sorry about ‘events between Ukraine and Russia’ and asking people to restrict themselves from making comments and allowing different political views without criticism.

I got very angry and intend to push more about this. How exactly am I supposed to convince a girl whose father is stuck terrified in Kharkiv that she should not take sides here? We got a huge Ukrainian community in Kraków and many of our employees are from over there. This is insane.
 
Today I was picking up a Canadian volunteer soldier from the airport for a change and showing him around the city, helping him settle. Will be taking him to the border tomorrow. He’s focused mostly on helping regroup in Lviv, getting people out etc. so hopefully he will be back in a few weeks/months so we can grab another drink. I was surprised by how many military volunteers there were at the airport, the flight from Frankfurt was full of US/Canadian soldiers coming over. Really promising, not even just in the fact that they may help in combat but they will probably be very helpful in the little stuff they’ve been trained to do behind the frontline. Was a nice change in mood for me from the last few days which were very very grim, at least I got to laugh for the first time in days while still doing something positive I think. Will drive him to the border tomorrow and pick immigrants on my way back, seems the influx is still very very high.
 
Sarni said:
Today I was picking up a Canadian volunteer soldier from the airport for a change and showing him around the city, helping him settle. Will be taking him to the border tomorrow. He’s focused mostly on helping regroup in Lviv, getting people out etc. so hopefully he will be back in a few weeks/months so we can grab another drink. I was surprised by how many military volunteers there were at the airport, the flight from Frankfurt was full of US/Canadian soldiers coming over. Really promising, not even just in the fact that they may help in combat but they will probably be very helpful in the little stuff they’ve been trained to do behind the frontline. Was a nice change in mood for me from the last few days which were very very grim, at least I got to laugh for the first time in days while still doing something positive I think. Will drive him to the border tomorrow and pick immigrants on my way back, seems the influx is still very very high.
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Good work, @Sarni.
 
Sarni said:
My company (US based) has basically issue a statement over email today to say they are deeply sorry about ‘events between Ukraine and Russia’ and asking people to restrict themselves from making comments and allowing different political views without criticism.

I got very angry and intend to push more about this. How exactly am I supposed to convince a girl whose father is stuck terrified in Kharkiv that she should not take sides here? We got a huge Ukrainian community in Kraków and many of our employees are from over there. This is insane.
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Peak both sides from your employer, indeed. Sounds like they should be Russia based.
 
Winrar said:
Not here, but there ARE numbskulls that still debate this.
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At times it does seem that people are actually happy to see Europe at war, as if Eastern Europe has been at fault for anything happened in the Middle East etc. and as if we've never gone through hardships ourselves (most of our countries we occupied by Russia just 30 years ago).

Another aspect is "othering" countries like Ukraine. It's like the countries are just clogs in the system of the big boys and we can be used as currency, to be traded and used as levers in some geopolitical powerplays that we don't understand.

Anyway, back to topic, let the numbskulls have their threads.

That explosion heard near the metro station sounds scary, hope everyone covering in the underground are fine.
 
Rightnr said:
Peak both sides from your employer, indeed. Sounds like they should be Russia based.
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Also this was communication from our Kraków office, there’s been zero so far from our HQ. Very very poor.
 
RedRonaldo said:
So I think its more about which side of propaganda people are being subjected to. For the Ukraine people and the west, Russian invaders are evil as they are invading their home country by military means, destroying the buildings/facilities and causing lives of people. For Russian soldiers, they are missioned to do what they have been told and ordered, to neutralise Ukraine military force and to liberty the people of Ukraine.
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It is stupid to try to equate the two sides. You are saying "to liberty the people of Ukraine". Liberate from whom?
 
frostbite said:
It is stupid to try to equate the two sides. You are saying "to liberty the people of Ukraine". Liberate from whom?
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The Kremlin propaganda sounds like “we are going to protect Donbas form the real rulers of Ukraine (the neo Nazis). “

This message has been shouted and repeated all around Russia for 8 years. Many in Russia do believe that the Russian population of east Ukraine (especially the Donbas) was at risk of a genocide and that an intervention is necessary to prevent that genocide.
 
Pintu said:
The Kremlin propaganda sounds like “we are going to protect Donbas form the real rulers of Ukraine (the neo Nazis). “

This message has been shouted and repeated all around Russia for 8 years. Many in Russia do believe that the Russian population of east Ukraine (especially the Donbas) was at risk of a genocide and that an intervention is necessary to prevent that genocide.
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But they did not invade Donbas only.
 
The flip-side of the sanctions...

America's sanctions on Russia are hurting the US 'in a profound way,' and taxpayers will bear the cost, says Citadel's Ken Griffin
While the West's retaliatory sanctions squeeze Russia's economy, they will have grave repercussions on the US that its citizens will pay for, warned Citadel CEO Ken Griffin. The primary concern, according to the hedge fund billionaire, is that America is weaponizing the US dollar. "When we put on the table the possibility that your dollars will become seized, or that you can't move dollars, we're telling the rest of the world to embrace other currencies in their portfolio, and we diminish the value of the dollar as the reserve currency," Griffin said in a Bloomberg TV interview.

Even though the sanctions feel good in the short-term, the long-term impact won't be as positive, he added. And eventually, a shift away from dollar-denominated assets around the world could result in steeper costs for the federal government. "American taxpayers are going to pay for this in the form of higher interest rates on our debt. It hurts our country in a profound way," Griffin said. Additionally, he also said the sanctions are hindering the US's ability to be the leading technology developer in the world.
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https://markets.businessinsider.com...ken-griffin-ukraine-war-economy-dollar-2022-3
 
Sir Matt said:
:lol: I was thinking they should start claiming all of those islands and Sakhalin Island too. Talk about how they are under control by a nazi government, etc.
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Between the missing Romanian Mig and the annexing of these Japanese Islands, we are seem to be well on our way to a broader conflict. ;)
 
Abraxas said:
Sure, but that still comes back to the value of those planes in one way or another. Poland might have got them for 1 pence from a country that could afford to do whatever strategic deal that was, but to Poland they mean a lot. They'd want to be convinced they're going to be of use and not simply shot down in quick time.

Seems like only a few countries have these MiGs to provide and it's a much tougher decision than providing arms and missiles from their point of view.

Still, if there's a will there's probably a way. Within NATO they could certainly offer guarantees to these countries that planes would be replaced.
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True! It seemed like there was a will if it's true that Ukrainian pilots were already on their way to Poland to pick them up, so perhaps they got cold feet after it was made so public or there was a collective decision that supplying planes is just one step too involved. Or some planes were delivered secretly. Or like you said, maybe they came to the conclusion that they won't make much difference right now, and therefore not willing to risk provoking Russia.

Who knows
 
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