Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

rpitroda said:
If NATO did want to intervene, let’s say, beyond a proxy war stance, is there any middle ground between being militarily all in or all out? I guess air strikes could theoretically be possible without actually putting troops on the ground, perhaps?
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Most of the articles I’ve read on the plane situation seem to rule out EU or NATO countries giving planes to Ukraine. Romania wouldn’t even let a Ukrainian jet return armed with the missiles it arrived with, with the expectation they will have to return by land.

I’m hoping they are going the plausible deniability route and planes will be sold quietly perhaps with Ukrainian livery.

https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/is-poland-sending-fighter-jets-to-ukraine/
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...e-last-fighter-ukraine-will-get-for-some-time
 
TMDaines said:
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Translation.

Russian crazies recorded a flash mob in support of the military.

The second part of the tweet is the author wondering what kind of apocalypse we/he are/is living in.

Forgot about the last part. He references the second season of Squid game
 
Danny1982 said:
This is a stupid message (regardless the ethical and moral aspects). First, you don't take prisoners in war to protect the enemy troops, you take them to protect your own troops they capture. Second, those captured troops could be used for good propaganda, and your best bet at the moment is the media war, this makes you weaker on that front, not stronger (add to that most people won't sympathize with these kind of messages). And third, this will only incentivize the Russians to be more resilient in their fight and unwilling to surrender.

I have no idea what benefit you achieve with these statements.
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It's a message specific to the artillary gunners that are indescriminately murdering civilians. I don't know what the point is of releasing such a statement, not sure there needs to be one.
 
T00lsh3d said:
That’s mental. Showing acts of barbarity is fine, but showing acts of humanity isn’t?
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That is a war prisoners right under humanitarian international law.

I personally have no real interest in videos of people lying dead in the streets when the families haven't consented to it being shared either. Having seen it in real life, I am very pro civvies seeing the real horrors of war. But if some idiot filmed my loved ones dead on the floor and posted it online without my consent, I'd set it to record while I stuck it up their ass.
 
Carolina Red said:
Then taking Moldova wouldn’t make much sense.
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Putin already has a buffer in Moldova - Transnistria. Another breakaway state which conveniently is on the east border. If we go by Putin's book of war, generally he uses the same step to invade other countries, but in Moldova's case I'm not sure why he would need it or engage in another economical turmoil. He won't gain much, especially if he controls Odessa.
 
I would guess a slightly cynical reading of why people might not be queuing up to hand over planes is that they're also bloody expensive. If they are not going to tip the balance and/or end up getting shot down its a massive loss and they don't get built overnight to be replaced. I can't see what the ethical difference is supposed to be between providing weapons that kill and airplanes that kill. I think it's probably finances (unfortunately) and training required to use them.
 
IWat said:
That is a war prisoners right under humanitarian international law.

I personally have no real interest in videos of people lying dead in the streets when the families haven't consented to it being shared either. Having seen it in real life, I am very pro civvies seeing the real horrors of war. But if some idiot filmed my loved ones dead on the floor and posted it online without my consent, I'd set it to record while I stuck it up their ass.
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You are really against the POW videos? Seems to be a non-issue to me.

These guys aren't being humiliated, they will be among some of the best kept pow's in history (unless they are an art gunner :o). When that line was written into the Geneva convention 70+ years ago I think they had something else in mind.
 
nimic said:
Oh yeah I see now that it does. I think it's good etiquette to post the translation in here, so people don't have to go to Twitter to see it if they're lazy like me.
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I generally do try and post a translated re-tweet, if I stumble across it first.
 
worldgonemad said:
How would it go if putin is charged with war crimes? Would he be arrested if he ever left the country?
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Putin won’t ever have any single piece of repercussion for anything he’s done - he’s manipulated and infiltrated not just his own country, but the World, and no one ever does anything.

Infiltrates U.S government, instals a puppet president in America (!!!) and leaves America bordering on a race war - no come back

Infiltrates Britain and Brexit and isolates the U.K, also funds up the rise of Farage and tears apart Britain’s culture - no come back

Funds up the rise of the new Far-Right across Europe - no come back

Makes up laughable new laws so he can’t be voted out, demeans the Russian public - no come back

Countless murders of journalists - no come back

Countless high profile poisonings of rivals - no come back

Chechnya - no come back

Crimea - no come back

This will be no different. Sanctions won’t affect him at all (they’ll be prepared for and if he doesn’t like them will just bully the civilised World into easing them) and clearly no one in Russia can get to him.

He’ll never be brought down Gadaffi / Saddam style - there’s literally no chance of it happening.

The World is essentially being held to ransom by a meddlesome, sadistic Bond villain who cries ‘Nukes’ like a spoiled toddler whenever he doesn’t get his own way.

Hopefully future generations can learn from where we went wrong and prevent such a situation from occurring again.
 
Carolina Red said:
Then taking Moldova wouldn’t make much sense.
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Why not? Non NATO member and if Russia take Odessa they have that shoreline completely. If they get east Ukraine with NATO unable to interervene why would there be more resistance or make no sense to take Moldova?
 
Simbo said:
You are really against the POW videos? Seems to be a non-issue to me.
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They will be scared shitless, in some they are clearly terrified. The one I took issue with was a guy crying to his mum on the phone. When will he ever get back home? Who knows. It's not something that needs to be posted online.

When will Ukrainians get back home? Who knows, but if they want to record attacks against them, or document what is happening to them and put them online that is their right, no issue with that specifically.
 
The Firestarter said:
Doesn't change the fact that it is actual war crime and direct propaganda fuel.
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Ukraine are alone, nobody is directly helping them while Russia are killing civilians and have the help of Belarus and Chechens. Why should Ukraine play by the rules anymore?
 
Simbo said:
This message being spread far and wide now.

Seems to be a response to the shelling in Karkhiv and mostly Mariupol, the stories coming out of there sound horrific. Seems they are systematically shelling the city district by district. The Mayor has stated there will be hundreds of dead civilians but they can't count the bodies because the shelling has been constant for 16 hours.

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Very grim and yet expected with the recent turn of events in Mariupol.

The real question now is whether or not Putin is ready to sacrifice an entire generation of young Russians just like a few of his foolish predecessors, especially a senile Leonid Brezhnev did during the Soviet-Afghan War.
 
Abraxas said:
I would guess a slightly cynical reading of why people might not be queuing up to hand over planes is that they're also bloody expensive. If they are not going to tip the balance and/or end up getting shot down its a massive loss and they don't get built overnight to be replaced. I can't see what the ethical difference is supposed to be between providing weapons that kill and airplanes that kill. I think it's probably finances (unfortunately) and training required to use them.
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I don't think that's it because for instance 22 of Poland's MiG 29 planes were bought from Germany for a symbolic price of 1euro per plane, and those are planes the Ukrainians also use so would be helpful. But yeah even though from what I read they were planning on replacing them at some point anyway, replacing them would take some time and they might not want to give them away in case this escalates beyond Ukraine.
 
Something I've found very frustrating when watching the news and they use translators.

BBC and Sky, the person translating seems to barely be able to understand what they are saying and so their translation is really poor.

Can they simply not use a native tongue who speaks good English to do this job.

Seems like they ask a Finnish guy who has learnt some Russian or Ukrainian to then translate into English.

Today, I found it really frustrating and more annoying than ever.

And it was a taped video, not even live and they still couldn't keep up.
 
alexthelion said:
Callous maybe, but why didn't they leave when war became inevitable or when other countries told their nationals to leave?
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Most of them are students. Indian students (about 20000 of them) study in Ukraine. That is more than a quarter of the foreign students in Ukraine. They could not get availability on flights fast enough. Many tickets were gone. Many flights were from Kyiv. Not sure if there was a money issue. Not everyone had enough spare money.

Anyways, the larger point is that they are stuck, they made it to the railway stations. It seems completely inhuman to kick them out of the trains.
 
I rather suspect that by the time this is over we'll have seen so many more egregious violations of international law and POW rights that filming them calling their parents will seem irrelevant.
 
Smithy89 said:
Ukraine are alone, nobody is directly helping them while Russia are killing civilians and have the help of Belarus and Chechens. Why should Ukraine play by the rules anymore?
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Because the current and eventual help Ukraine receives is predicated on them being the good guys in the eyes of the world. The discrimination on the border is not exactly helping and I hope its rectified soon , and this message for killing POW is really not helping. Its an actual war crime that does not achieve much. It will just make the Russians less likely to surrender.
 
sullydnl said:
I rather suspect that by the time this is over we'll have seen so many more egregious violations of international law and POW rights that filming them calling their parents will seem irrelevant.
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No doubt, but none of those can be influenced by not repeating them here.
 
Port Vale Devil said:
Fecking Sky News had the rolling ticker saying Kim Kardashian is officially single whilst civilians are being bombed in Ukraine.
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I have to watch Sky News in moderation.

BBC and Al Jezeer have been better than Sky and their CNN style of reporting.

Just wish they would get proper translators.
 
The Firestarter said:
Because the current and eventual help Ukraine receives is predicated on them being the good guys in the eyes of the world. The discrimination on the border is not exactly helping and I hope its rectified soon , and this message for killing POW is really not helping. Its an actual war crime that does not achieve much. It will just make the Russians less likely to surrender.
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I'm by no means advocating killing any current POWs, but i understand their anger and ultra violence in wanting to do away with surrendering and just slaughtering any invader.
 
choccy77 said:
Something I've found very frustrating when watching the news and they use translators.

Can they simply not use a native tongue who speaks good English to do this job.
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If we let Russians do it how can we trust them to translate it accurately? They could even use the broadcasts to give signals to their sleeper agents.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Putin already has a buffer in Moldova - Transnistria. Another breakaway state which conveniently is on the east border. If we go by Putin's book of war, generally he uses the same step to invade other countries, but in Moldova's case I'm not sure why he would need it or engage in another economical turmoil. He won't gain much, especially if he controls Odessa.
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Well, my point in him taking Moldova not making sense if he wants a buffer is the fact that Moldova borders Romania, which is in NATO. He’d be erasing his buffer even more.
 
Boavista said:
I don't think that's it because for instance 22 of Poland's MiG 29 planes were bought from Germany for a symbolic price of 1euro per plane, and those are planes the Ukrainians also use so would be helpful. But yeah even though from what I read they were planning on replacing them at some point anyway, replacing them would take some time and they might not want to give them away in case this escalates beyond Ukraine.
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Sure, but that still comes back to the value of those planes in one way or another. Poland might have got them for 1 pence from a country that could afford to do whatever strategic deal that was, but to Poland they mean a lot. They'd want to be convinced they're going to be of use and not simply shot down in quick time.

Seems like only a few countries have these MiGs to provide and it's a much tougher decision than providing arms and missiles from their point of view.

Still, if there's a will there's probably a way. Within NATO they could certainly offer guarantees to these countries that planes would be replaced.
 
Smithy89 said:
I'm by no means advocating killing any current POWs, but i understand their anger and ultra violence in wanting to do away with surrendering and just slaughtering any invader.
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I can understand it. But as others have said, it really doesn't help their cause. The worst thing they can do is make the average Russian soldier as determined to stay in the fight as they are. Because they will lose much faster with that being the case.
 
Ayoba said:
I just don't know what the end game is here for Putin. Complete and total control of Ukraine, then what? Face charges from the west for war crimes? Not a chance! So what's the alternative...he carries on fighting?
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His ultimate goal is to return Russia (Soviet Union) to its former glory, and Ukraine is basically the crown jewel of that achievement. Catastrophic loss of lives and refugees created is secondary to his ambitions.

When many people say he's a madman that's exactly what that means.
 
Abraxas said:
Sure, but that still comes back to the value of those planes in one way or another. Poland might have got them for 1 pence from a country that could afford to do whatever strategic deal that was, but to Poland they mean a lot. They'd want to be convinced they're going to be of use and not simply shot down in quick time.

Seems like only a few countries have these MiGs to provide and it's a much tougher decision than providing arms and missiles from their point of view.

Still, if there's a will there's probably a way. Within NATO they could certainly offer guarantees to these countries that planes would be replaced.
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They need the air bases with functioning runways, fuel, munitions, pilots, ground staff etc.

Assuming they have one left with all of the above. The first thing Russia is going to do is try bomb it.

It's an exercise in futility without adequate anti-air to protect it.
 
choccy77 said:
Something I've found very frustrating when watching the news and they use translators.

BBC and Sky, the person translating seems to barely be able to understand what they are saying and so their translation is really poor.

Can they simply not use a native tongue who speaks good English to do this job.

Seems like they ask a Finnish guy who has learnt some Russian or Ukrainian to then translate into English.

Today, I found it really frustrating and more annoying than ever.

And it was a taped video, not even live and they still couldn't keep up.
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This post shows the lack of diversity in UK media and inherent bias. I already pointed out yesterday that Euronews had a much better translator than BBC and Euronews is barely getting a mention (even Al Jazeera got a look in).

I won't even comment on the implication that it has to be a Finnish person translating, as if Eastern European people who speak Russian don't speak good English.

On a slightly separate note, I find it pathetic journalists of the BBC stationed in Russia have to find English speaking Russians instead of getting a correspondent who speaks the local language. Similar in Ukraine as well although you can somewhat forgive it because there's so many journalists on the ground.
 
Rightnr said:
On a slightly separate note, I find it pathetic journalists of the BBC stationed in Russia have to find English speaking Russians instead of getting a correspondent who speaks the local language. Similar in Ukraine as well although you can somewhat forgive it because there's so many journalists on the ground.
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They did, Sarah Rainsford who spoke fluent Russian - she got kicked out of Russia last year after 20 years.
 
Rightnr said:
This post shows the lack of diversity in UK media and inherent bias. I already pointed out yesterday that Euronews had a much better translator than BBC and Euronews is barely getting a mention (even Al Jazeera got a look in).

I won't even comment on the implication that it has to be a Finnish person translating, as if Eastern European people who speak Russian don't speak good English.

On a slightly separate note, I find it pathetic journalists of the BBC stationed in Russia have to find English speaking Russians instead of getting a correspondent who speaks the local language. Similar in Ukraine as well although you can somewhat forgive it because there's so many journalists on the ground.
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I was just using Finnish as an example, I don't know exactly where they originate from, but simply saying the quality is poor, as they struggle to understand what the native speaker is saying it seems which makes it difficult to really know what is being said clearly.
 
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