Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

hp88 said:
Think I screwed up the URL. I wouldn't say he's your average Brit but this guy is heading over to fight for Ukraine.

Ukraine invasion: Britons 'willing to die' to defeat Putin's army as volunteers prepare to travel to fight Russian invasion | UK News | Sky News
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Wow:

"Certainly some of the messages on that group are: 'I'm alone, I'm single, I'm 45 years old, I don't have military experience, I'm happy to go over there and fight, it doesn't matter that much if I don't come back.' It's shocking really.

"It's crazy for me to see people are willing to give their lives potentially."
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Dante said:
Same applies Zelenskyy when he decided to stay in Ukraine. Nationalism can do crazy things to people.
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That's a calculated risk though. Zelensky isn't exactly right at the front line.
 
choccy77 said:
@spectatorindex: BREAKING: Moscow says countries sending military equipment to Ukraine will be responsible if they are used against Russian forces.
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Every country in Europe, plus USA etc. knock yourselves out.
 
Youtube videos of PoWs calling home mainly from 20-25 year olds. Conscripts serving their obligated service term. He's killing a generation here.
 
calodo2003 said:
The feck is an ‘orc?’
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From Wiki:

"Orcs were the primary foot soldiers of the Dark Lord's armies and sometimes the weakest (but most numerous) of their servants. They were created by the first Dark Lord, Morgoth, before the First Age and served him and later his successor in their quest to dominate Middle-earth. Before Oromë first found the Elves at Cuiviénen, Melkor kidnapped some of them and cruelly deformed them, twisting them into the first Orcs."
 
I think it's more likely he will be deposed by his own cabinet if he doesn't know when to fold
 
Raoul said:
There is no face saving option for Putin at this point. He's far too overcommitted and nearing a point where EU and NATO are beginning to see cracks in his hold on power. In his own mind, his only out in all of this will be to take Ukraine by going ultra-violent. Anything else will be considered a weak capitulation involving him ruining the Russian economy while returning from Ukraine empty handed. Also, now that the international community has him in a weakened position, they aren't likely to remove the sanctions until he pays for the damage and destruction in Ukraine and signs an agreement to fund its reconstruction. He of course, isn't going to agree to any of these things and is incentivized to double down on taking Ukraine.
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So what's the way out then?

If you really believe Putin will never back down with any variation of a face-saving option (even a minor one that he just spins internally), how does this end? I know it's the desire of everyone for Putin to just get overthrown internally and then the new leaders of Russia would work out a deal but from everything @harms and others have posted that seems like a bit of overly-optimistic wishful thinking.
 
TheReligion said:
There’s only France in the EU with a nuclear deterrent. That’s why NATO is where the strength is (adds UK and the US).

The EU as a separate entity isn’t that powerful in a military sense.
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Germany also has nuclear bombs.
As part of the NATO sharing agreement, they have a number of American B61 tactical nuclear weapons.
These are carried by their Panavia Tornado IDS jets, a number of which are nuclear capable and provide the German nuclear deterrent.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
So what's the way out then?

If you really believe Putin will never back down with any variation of a face-saving option (even a minor one that he just spins internally), how does this end? I know it's the desire of everyone for Putin to just get overthrown internally and then the new leaders of Russia would work out a deal but from everything @harms and others have posted that seems like a bit of overly-optimistic wishful thinking.
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We could see another Sarajevo, sadly.
 
Mickeza said:
There’s little doubt in my mind we have special ops going on in Ukraine.
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VorZakone said:
I was thinking the same thing but not necessarily to fight Russian regulars, but precisely these 'assasin squads' hunting Zelenskiy in Kyiv.
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They're signing up the "Foreign Legion", guessing if were going to send in the hit squad it would be under this guise.
 
Frosty said:
From Wiki:

"Orcs were the primary foot soldiers of the Dark Lord's armies and sometimes the weakest (but most numerous) of their servants. They were created by the first Dark Lord, Morgoth, before the First Age and served him and later his successor in their quest to dominate Middle-earth. Before Oromë first found the Elves at Cuiviénen, Melkor kidnapped some of them and cruelly deformed them, twisting them into the first Orcs."
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Absolutely no clue what that passage means, none.
 
Dante said:
Putin's a cornered and wounded animal, with nukes for teeth and thermobaric missiles for claws.

He's in flight or fight mode. We need to back off a bit and give him an escape route. Because he's never going to back down from his snarling rhetoric otherwise.
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I'm not sure we are at that point yet. The longer this goes on the weaker Putin gets. He needs a bit more rope.

There is a chance to get rid of Putin for good here. Keep the pressure on.
 
rpitchfo said:
would love to know the view of the average Russian right now.
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The ones I know are all horrified and want Putin gone. They are all people who have spent time in Western Europe though, so their views might not reflect those who have stayed in Russia their whole lives
 
LARulz said:
I agree, I am not saying it's just pure racism or something. It needs to be explained from all ends - I've not heard (unless missed and easily could have as they may be drowned out) much from those countries where the citizens are impacted

Either way, if it's meant as a humanitarian crisis/escape, it shouldn't really matter too much who it is especially if some places are supposedly saying they don't care about paperwork and it's just getting people out
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I think the fact that people fleeing Ukraine are entering the Eurozone is potentially a big factor. There are fewer border controls once you are in the Eurozone and it could be easy to lose track of where these folks end up. Some foreign nationals will have an easier time getting out of Ukraine because of their passport, definitely.

It's important that the embassy/diplomatic mission of any country with citizen currently in Ukraine does their utmost to help them because it's not going to be something high on the list of Ukraine, Poland, Hungary or anywhere else bordering this crisis. That sucks but could be a factor; although I thought I saw news that Hungary was lifting all restrictions even for migrants from elsewhere.
 
choccy77 said:
@spectatorindex: BREAKING: Moscow says countries sending military equipment to Ukraine will be responsible if they are used against Russian forces.
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Responsible for? Guy who's getting other countries to help his army with troops, has issues with other countries supplying weapons to kills said troops. Pootin is going to declare war on half the world at this rate, I hope his army is up to the task...
 
I was at this site for a beer festival only last September in Lviv. I am supposed to be going back there in only a few months! Now the headquarters of the craft brewery are producing Molotovs en masse.

 
Red_toad said:
Responsible for? Guy who's getting other countries to help his army with troops, has issues with other countries supplying weapons to kills said troops. Pootin is going to declare war on half the world at this rate, I hope his army is up to the task...
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They will be. Now if you could just spare a litre of diesel?
 
The Firestarter said:
Wonder what are the chances of some US ex operators signing up for this foreign legion.
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I know an ex-UK forces member who got a flight out to Eastern Europe to cross the border. So odds are quite high. How many? Who knows.
 
clarkydaz said:
Do you think think Trump is watching this saying' woah, chill out dude'
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If you randomly start a war and alienate yourself with the rest of the world, you save loads of money, as building a wall to prevent foreigners getting in becomes redundant. Genius, fecking genius.
 
Spark said:
Article seems to be gone. Without going into whether its even right to be “allowed” to go and fight - could this be cover to send in special ops? Ironically very similar to Wagner Group soldiers, just need to call them volunteers and send them over the Polish border.
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Doubt it. You get foreign fighters in every war. Some will be ex military/special forces, some will be ordinary people moved by the plight of the Ukrainian people and some will be British Ukrainians. Remember that there were a lot of Ukrainian refugees that came to Britain after WW2 so people with Ukrainian heritage are more common in the UK than a lot people probably realise. My nieces are part Ukrainian and there’s a Ukrainian church not far from where I live.

We also allowed ordinary citizens to fight in other wars/campaigns. Perhaps most notoriously Salmon Abadi, who carried out on the bomb attack at the Ariana Grande concert in Manachester, was thought to have to have been in Libya and trained by a militia there. It can have blow back.
 
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