It is hard to make up wether this was a false flag. But the implications are the same. There seems to be no limits to the madness of the Russian leaders. And it’s hard to disagree with Guy on this. There is no point keeping any weapons form the UA. All our previous hesitations have been proven to be stupid and damming.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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It's just frustrating. The only thing keeping this conflict alive is the cowardice by some of today's presidents, Macron and Scholz before all. We are the only ones who fear an escalation with Russia, even though Nato is stronger by far. Russia is weaker in reality, but knows how to exploit western fears.
those are different Danish media outlets and they are referencing German investigations.
I know it's easy to just skip ahead and opt for the conspiracy logic, but given the low level of corruption in Denmark, I think the most plausible scenario is that the authorities will publish their findings truthfully when the investigation has concluded and won't be sharing details until then. And yes, proper investigations take time. It is not just a matter of "we saw Russian boats in these satellite photos after a few weeks of investigating, so it was them. alert the press."
I imagine that DR has a source there, so I consider it plausible that what DR is now reporting is in line with working theory of the investigate department.
Putin is almost never in Kremlin, so I wouldn’t call it his day office.
His reaction would’ve been the same if it was a genuine attack, so it’s a poor argument. In fact, if Russia had the means to kill Zelensky, they would’ve done it by now (they’ve tried at the very beginning).
This would be the most plausible of scenarios, and certainly not the first time Putin used this tactic to justify an escalation.
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What do you make of Ponomarev’s abovr claim it was done by internal Russian partisans ?
Hopefully Prigozhin will start some inner trouble and order Wagner to retreat.
Ignoring him completely, regardless of what he’s saying, is the right course of action, the guy is a clown (even though he’s on the right side at the moment).
Partisans clearly exist but the possibility of him being connected to them, like he claims, is pretty slim. As for this particular case, it looks, from the very little that we know, that it was a big drone like those that were found near Moscow after they fell down — and those are more likely to be sent from the Ukrainian territory (as opposed to smaller repurposed civilian drones that would’ve been sent from somewhere close). But we really don’t know much.
Thanks. I don’t know much about the guy, so that definitely helps contextualize things a bit.
That would be good, and I guess he's setting it up like that. Wagner retreat because of "lack of support" from Russia, so he doesn't have to admit the failure to have a significant impact on the war.
Always has been. He hates everything American and thus eager to speak his poisonous nonsense just to shit in the US.
The further left one goes, the more one sees an ideological convergence with right wing populist rhetoric. In Chomsky’s case it’s more so coincidental than intentional. In the case of Greenwald, there’s definitely a grift involved.
Yep, agree with this (the main point, dunno who is Greenwald).
Glenn Greenwald. Self aggrandizing lefty journo who frequently appeared on Tucker Carlson’s show.
Left wingers who appear on that prick’s show are the worst. Tulsi leading them although I guess she has become hardcore Republican by now.
I don't think Tulsi could ever have been described as left wing.
Yeah, she’s never been a lefty but she did try to grift her way into the progressive lane when she ran in 2019/20, by attempting to latch on to the TYT crowd.
He talks a lot of nonsense about american rivals, in this specific case Russia, but he's usually spot on about american foreign policy.
It's a combined project of Danish DR, Norwegian NRK, Swedish SVT (guess what the D, N and S stand for) and Finnish YLE. In other words, if there's corruption it involves four of the least corrupt countries in the world.
4 of the top 5.
Unfortunately for Chomsky, both issues are often intertwined, where he ends up talking nonsense about foreign policy.
Iceland the other one? I guess sometimes it's the Netherlands with these things.
The drone feels too convenient in terms of timing to not be Russia's own doing. One would think Ukraine wouldn't want to give them that ammunition to escalate.
Not sure I buy them refusing to be humiliated like that. It's a minor humiliation with a big potential trade off for them.
Not sure I buy them refusing to be humiliated like that. It's a minor humiliation with a big potential trade off for them.
New zealand.
Iceland is actually a bit more corrupt than you'd think. Not in terms of bribery etc, but nepotism and cronyism is widespread.
Ah, pacific Scandinavia (with more violence).
What trade off? I swear, some of you still treat Russia as a democracy.
When the smallest countries have the biggest backbones.
The last link is exactly the same outlet. but as I said I refer to media in general. If you believe that one outlet has the truth, specially the one that you decide for the sake of your argument, suit yourself. Conspiracy theory? where I say that? I said that media last 1-2 months said one thing and now they say the another thing when the truth is that we will never know or not till we are well past the conflict.
The "shocking" comment that was not only you, I found it funny when there were news from the media, yes, the same outlet too, that is why specifically search one of the links were saying something else what makes the shocking laughable, because in 3 months they might say that it was something else
lazy analysis at bestAt this point, does it really matter that much who did it? It could be the Russians, it could be a rich Ukrainian that hired paramilitaries, it could be any crazy billionaire that decided it is a good idea, it could be anyone else. Does it really change anything in the larger picture?
The Russians invaded Ukraine, and for more than a year we watch Ukrainians die trying to defend their country, we have the worst war in Europe since WW2, a completely unnecessary and unprovoked war. A gas pipeline is just a small detail compared to the thousands that have already died or become disabled because of Putin's emperor dreams.
Edit: Wikipedia has a long list of sources about "Investigations" and "Speculation", including various claims by Russia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nord_Stream_pipeline_sabotage#Speculation
Matters? maybe not. But I like to know.
Russia is my pick. But wouldn't be juicy that it would be an ally from Germany? being Ukraine or US and how they would justify it
Again is just a matter to know. It matters who killed JFK at this point? no but I would like to know and as many more
My point is that saying shocking when the same media says something else before I find it funny
Bit of insight into the painstaking work required to de-mine and make safe Ukraines farmland.
Sure, I'd like to know too. We may find out someday, we may not, like the JFK murder as you mentioned.
But is there any point to speculate about it? Personally, I don't think so. Especially since there are a lot of possible culprits. And it is not just countries, any billionaire could have hired mercenaries to do it, it is not easy but it is not that difficult either.
Well, we would not be in a forum discussing many things, among them meta discussions like why speculate in speculation like me or why speculate in speculating the speculation like you now. And that is how I distract myself