Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

the anti Amorim crowd licking their lips whenever we lose a game, knowing they can repeat their same nonsense posts for another week in here. Then go silent whenever we get a good result :lol:

Eagerly looking forward to quoting all these bullshit opinion posts next year when we’re doing better after an actual summer window.
 
If Amorim isn't at the very least in the top 6 next season (which is a drastic improvement from the current standings) I can't see INEOS persisting with him.

Which could be fair enough (even if it would take - as you say - a drastic improvement).

But this isn't about Amorim - it's about the people who have hired him (for what? under what conditions? with what in mind for the long term?).

I have no idea what those people (his employers) actually think.
 
Things are getting better. And that is a fact not just eye test. How games go we have more and more possession, we have more and more shots, opposition has less shots and you can clearly see patterns in play.
Yes, results should be much better but if we make more progress until season ends and win EL, it will be very good half season for him.
And i can't repeat this enough; new proper striker and new right wingback will transform this team. Lets not forget that Amad will be back too.

I am still huge optimist about him. We just can't afford to feck up next transfer window. This summer we can't afford to buy Hojlunds (young and raw) or Casemiros (players in decline). We need to buy proven finished products who go straight in first 11.
 
Eagerly looking forward to quoting all these bullshit opinion posts next year when we’re doing better after an actual summer window.

Yeah, hope you're right.

(But you are aware, I would hope, that we have heard this song - and seen this dance - before. Quite a few times, actually, since Fergie retired.)
 
13 league defeats is a clear sign he has been terrible. His magic 3-4-3 is a load of nonsense. United - especially in their current state - need a pragmatic manager who assesses the squad and works with them.

The philosophers are all gone. Klopp is gone. Guardiola is on his way out. And 3-4-3 Amorim is being shown up. Embarrasing.

Look at Slot at Liverpool. Small subtle changes working with the squad is the way. I can guarantee if Amorim had gone to Liverpool (which could have happened) Liverpool would be nowhere near the title.

None of this makes sense at all given that 4 defeats happened under Ten Hag, and we specifically bought Amorim to replicate what he did at Sporting, which came with the knowledge he would be implementing the same formation and tactics. And Slot, as has been mentioned above, inherited a top 4 side which had been playing top football for a better part of the preceding decade.
 
the anti Amorim crowd licking their lips whenever we lose a game, knowing they can repeat their same nonsense posts for another week in here. Then go silent whenever we get a good result :lol:

Eagerly looking forward to quoting all these bullshit opinion posts next year when we’re doing better after an actual summer window.

What are you expecting him to do in the summer window when there will no money to spend and very few players that'll want to join due to us having no European Football next season?
 
Overall I'm not entirely happy with him so far, but it's very very difficult to really judge a manager with the current group of players, specially upfront. Don't remember a United team devoid of goals as this one, and at the end of the day goals win you games.

We struggled with scoring last season, and the way this was addressed in the summer was shocking. I really hope next summer will be different. We should add two or three really good players to that forward line.
 
You’re missing the point. I’m not claiming those attacking players were at their peak or did really well for us. I’m simply pointing out they were better than what we have now.

As a point of reference, Martial, Rashford, Mata and Lingard had 72 goals and assists between them that season. Garnacho, Amad, Zirkzee and Hojlund currently have only 55 between them this season.

That's not particularly a fair comparison to exclude Bruno who has probably played 70 percent of his minutes as a #10 this year and double counting Höjlund and Zirkzee who largely take minutes off each other. Do a straight comparison:

Bruno vs Mata (#10)
Garnacho vs Martial (left attacker)
Hojlund vs Rashford (#9)
Amad vs Lingard (RW)

It's basically the same. I'd probably only take 2016 Martial from those personally, he scored 17 goals largely from LW.

And we had the exact same issue of not being able to buy a goal for love or money, both in 2015/16 and this season.
 
What are you expecting him to do in the summer window when there will no money to spend and very few players that'll want to join due to us having no European Football next season?

We already have Sancho, Rashford, and Anthony not playing for us, and all of them should generate some transfer funds for us for this summer. Even if we only bought the likes of Delap and Roger Fernandes, or Trincao, it would still be a significant improvement on the options we have in attack currently.

Over the last year Forest have gone from 17th to top four without the lure of European football thanks to some very affordable and astute signings. It won’t be easy, but the notion that we can’t do any decent transfer business and therefore can’t improve is nonsense.
 
That's not particularly a fair comparison to exclude Bruno who has probably played 70 percent of his minutes as a #10 this year and double counting Höjlund and Zirkzee who largely take minutes off each other. Do a straight comparison:

Bruno vs Mata (#10)
Garnacho vs Martial (left attacker)
Hojlund vs Rashford (#9)
Amad vs Lingard (RW)

It's basically the same. I'd probably only take 2016 Martial from those personally, he scored 17 goals largely from LW.

And we had the exact same issue of not being able to buy a goal for love or money, both in 2015/16 and this season.

That’s pretty funny when you arbitrarily discounted all the forwards from LVG’s 2014-2015 season to cherry pick what you thought looked like the weakest four.

If you can honestly look at our current attacking options and think they’re on a par with the options we had in our 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 LVG squads then there’s not much point arguing with you.
 
the anti Amorim crowd licking their lips whenever we lose a game, knowing they can repeat their same nonsense posts for another week in here. Then go silent whenever we get a good result :lol:

Eagerly looking forward to quoting all these bullshit opinion posts next year when we’re doing better after an actual summer window.

And equally so when we win against some of the historically worst teams in the league and teams from some of the poorest leagues in Europe people are quick to go see its working etc, that goes both ways.

The answer is we both could be right or wrong, and if I am proved wrong I'll hold my hands up and say so and also I want to be wrong I don't care about being right, but I don't see it with this manager and his footballing concepts.
 
Amorim is doing his best with an average squad. His methods, structure, mentality, expectations, identity, are all beginning to show. I like him, and he has stopped being so negative and self-consumed with the press, which is very important.

As many of us know. He needs to get rid of some players and get in some new ones.
How are they showing? We often concede the first goal = mentally ill prepared. We have almost no attacking structure. Anyone can talk Amorim talk. He has been a huge disappointment, he will probably end the season without two PL victories in a row.
 
We already have Sancho, Rashford, and Anthony not playing for us, and all of them should generate some transfer funds for us for this summer. Even if we only bought the likes of Delap and Roger Fernandes, or Trincao, it would still be a significant improvement on the options we have in attack currently.

We spent the money we thought we were getting for Sancho on Dorgu, Rashford might get us about 40m if Villa agree to buy which isnt guarented, and if Antony leaves again it'll probably be a loan move again as I cant see anyone being willing to sign him permanently.

In order for Ruben to make his tactics work he is going to need 6 or 7 good players but we simply dont have the funds to buy those players.
 
The point probably should have been,
If Amorim took over Liverpool he would have dismantled the team to play his 343 system, and the narrative would have been the squad is not set-up for 343 thus he would need time to construct his own team. Which in turn he would have conditioned Liverpool fans to accept a 'team in transition period'.
He wouldn't have had to 'dismantle' anything at Liverpool. Yes, it would have been more of a change than what Slot has done so he probably wouldn't have had as much success in the short-term (which is why Liverpool didn't pick him, especially with the age of their key players), but I don't know where this idea comes from that 3421 requires a complete overhaul as if every position requires specialist players. The wingbacks are really the only specialists and in Liverpool's case you'd think TAA would have fit it very well, and there may be some individual players in other positions that are better suited in one than another.

But generally, a top striker is a top striker. The two #10's in a 3421 will generally be good as either a #10 or a winger in a different formation. There's no significant difference between the two midfielders in a 3421 and in a 4231. Most top central defenders in a three man defence will be fine in a back four (for instance VVD plays in the latter for Liverpool and the former for Netherlands). A goalkeeper obviously won't change much. Even the wingbacks will often be fine just as an attacking fullback or an actual winger, although that is the position that is most likely to have the biggest change.

Like I said, it's not an exact thing as there may be some players that suit one more than the other. An obvious one to me is David Luiz, who was much better in a three man defence than he was in a back four. But that won't be the case for most.

We need a significant overhaul because our players aren't good enough for any formation, not because we're playing 3421. We would have needed a similar overhaul even if we'd bought in a 433 or 4231 manager.
 
He wouldn't have had to 'dismantle' anything at Liverpool. Yes, it would have been more of a change than what Slot has done so he probably wouldn't have had as much success in the short-term (which is why Liverpool didn't pick him, especially with the age of their key players), but I don't know where this idea comes from that 3421 requires a complete overhaul as if every position requires specialist players. The wingbacks are really the only specialists and in Liverpool's case you'd think TAA would have fit it very well, and there may be some individual players in other positions that are better suited in one than another.

But generally, a top striker is a top striker. The two #10's in a 3421 will generally be good as either a #10 or a winger in a different formation. There's no significant difference between the two midfielders in a 3421 and in a 4231. Most top central defenders in a three man defence will be fine in a back four (for instance VVD plays in the latter for Liverpool and the former for Netherlands). A goalkeeper obviously won't change much. Even the wingbacks will often be fine just as an attacking fullback or an actual winger, although that is the position that is most likely to have the biggest change.

Like I said, it's not an exact thing as there may be some players that suit one more than the other. An obvious one to me is David Luiz, who was much better in a three man defence than he was in a back four. But that won't be the case for most.

We need a significant overhaul because our players aren't good enough for any formation, not because we're playing 3421. We would have needed a similar overhaul even if we'd bought in a 433 or 4231 manager.
And that is why I have argued that it is riskier to also change your system in the middle of a significant overhaul.
 
And that is why I have argued that it is riskier to also change your system in the middle of a significant overhaul.
The club must have known he would want to change the system and were fine with it. Surely it was brought up in the negotiations when they went after him? Otherwise like keeping on ETH it was foolish and the change needed to be made during the summer or next summer. If they do not stand by him, they will look really stupid.
 
Does anyone know or has he said why he isn't just playing Garnacho on the right hand side + why Maz/Yoro seem to keep switching? Usually he addresses these things but I have not heard a peep on either.
 
We spent the money we thought we were getting for Sancho on Dorgu, Rashford might get us about 40m if Villa agree to buy which isnt guarented, and if Antony leaves again it'll probably be a loan move again as I cant see anyone being willing to sign him permanently.

In order for Ruben to make his tactics work he is going to need 6 or 7 good players but we simply dont have the funds to buy those players.

Source for that claim?

Villa aren’t the the only club that might buy Rashford. I actually think it’s more likely he moves elsewhere. Anthony will definitely have interest from Spanish teams with how well he’s been doing at Betis.

Either way, you’re ignoring the two main points:

1) We will have funds for some new transfers this summer. They won’t be expensive, high profile players, but they don’t have to be to improve us.

2) A handful of astute signings along with some good coaching can dramatically change the fortunes of a club in a short space of time. We’ve seen that worth Forest over the past year.

Three decent attacking players (striker, 10, RWB) could easily have a very positive impact, and put us in a much better place. Of course 6/7 new players would be better than 3/4 new players, but that doesn’t mean 3/4 new players won’t improve us.
 
The guy has 22 points from 19 games. 22 points.
He has 9 league defeats in those 19 games. In our 13 league defeats this season. He will lose half of his game by season end.
Which is about right for a squad with no goalscorers.
 
The club must have known he would want to change the system and were fine with it. Surely it was brought up in the negotiations when they went after him? Otherwise like keeping on ETH it was foolish and the change needed to be made during the summer or next summer. If they do not stand by him, they will look really stupid.
When Liverpool hire a new manager they know which system he prefers. United, I am not sure.
 
When Liverpool hire a new manager they know which system he prefers. United, I am not sure.
Yet wasn't that why we didn't even consider him last summer or Ashworth advised against it because the squad makeup was all wrong. I am not sure what we wanted as nobody seemed to fit the bill. We then extended ETH, sacked him, went after Amorim and then got rid of Ashworth.
 
Which is about right for a squad with no goalscorers.

I mean it's also the managers job to get the players scoring, Mateta is a name all of sudden on people's lips but his record under the previous managers at Palace was dreadful Glasner got the best out of him, Beto was really poor for Everton Moyes got him scoring, Wood a journeyman now one of the best scorers in the league this season for Forest.

I mean if you absolve the coaches who are coaching the players of any responsibility yeah we have no goalscorers and that's all the players fault.
 
I mean it's also the managers job to get the players scoring, Mateta is a name all of sudden on people's lips but his record under the previous managers at Palace was dreadful Glasner got the best out of him, Beto was really poor for Everton Moyes got him scoring, Wood a journeyman now one of the best scorers in the league this season for Forest.

I mean if you absolve the coaches who are coaching the players of any responsibility yeah we have no goalscorers and that's all the players fault.
I suppose if I played for us he should get me scoring too. Sometimes the players just aren't good enough.
 
Things are getting better. And that is a fact not just eye test. How games go we have more and more possession, we have more and more shots, opposition has less shots and you can clearly see patterns in play.
Yes, results should be much better but if we make more progress until season ends and win EL, it will be very good half season for him.
And i can't repeat this enough; new proper striker and new right wingback will transform this team. Lets not forget that Amad will be back too.

I am still huge optimist about him. We just can't afford to feck up next transfer window. This summer we can't afford to buy Hojlunds (young and raw) or Casemiros (players in decline). We need to buy proven finished products who go straight in first 11.

I agree, they are.

I like Amorim as a personality and how he is able to provide transparency which kind of takes us on the journey he's on as well.

Prior to his hire, I was, and still am, of the belief that United have been way too soft on managers and give a bit too much time for them to get things right, which they never do. However, in this case, Amorim is a young manager, who came in the middle of the season whilst the team was playing badly, with a set system which he strongly believes in, but that does not suit a lot of the players we have. He was always going to struggle, and once we had the poor run of form in December, the league season has been quite meaningless except looking at the performances to see what the system would look like with the right players. When you add the issues had with Rashford and some of the injuries we've experiences, particularly in attack, its quite easy to see where we are struggling.


Fans have to understand that as much as we've struggled with other managers and have allowed them to reign carefree, we can't use those scars to judge Amorim. I will always have time for managers like him and Ole, who represent the club well on a public platform.

We are in a position at the moment in which we've been able to confirm just how weak our attacking players currently are. Garnacho, Zirkzee, Hojlund, Antony and Rashford were not good enough. This has been a problem for some time. Outside of an uptick in Rashford's form (with Bruno and Greenwood's support), we've consistently struggled to have any effectiveness coming from our attack since 2017/2018. When the ball is in and around the box, outside of a tap in, I do not trust our players outside of Bruno to shoot, head or create a chance that leads to a goal. In this system that relies on quick central attacks, I have more faith in our defenders and central midfielders to finish chances than our attackers.

This summer is important for our attack. I think we should sign at least 2 players for positions in the front 3. Amad and Mount are good enough to play in this system, but Mount's injury record hasn't really given him the space to show the type of form we need. We can't rely on him, but he can support. In addition, I think Bruno, despite being better as a CM in this system, can provide support when needed.

In terms of what we should be looking for, the player profile should match Amad. Intense, good at dribbling (through the middle and on the flanks) and has the creativity to create chances and score goals. It's clear the most important attribute in this system is athleticism, so ensuring we sign athletic players with decent technical ability is crucial for all the positions we fill this summer.
 
He wouldn't have had to 'dismantle' anything at Liverpool. Yes, it would have been more of a change than what Slot has done so he probably wouldn't have had as much success in the short-term (which is why Liverpool didn't pick him, especially with the age of their key players), but I don't know where this idea comes from that 3421 requires a complete overhaul as if every position requires specialist players. The wingbacks are really the only specialists and in Liverpool's case you'd think TAA would have fit it very well, and there may be some individual players in other positions that are better suited in one than another.

But generally, a top striker is a top striker. The two #10's in a 3421 will generally be good as either a #10 or a winger in a different formation. There's no significant difference between the two midfielders in a 3421 and in a 4231. Most top central defenders in a three man defence will be fine in a back four (for instance VVD plays in the latter for Liverpool and the former for Netherlands). A goalkeeper obviously won't change much. Even the wingbacks will often be fine just as an attacking fullback or an actual winger, although that is the position that is most likely to have the biggest change.

Like I said, it's not an exact thing as there may be some players that suit one more than the other. An obvious one to me is David Luiz, who was much better in a three man defence than he was in a back four. But that won't be the case for most.

We need a significant overhaul because our players aren't good enough for any formation, not because we're playing 3421. We would have needed a similar overhaul even if we'd bought in a 433 or 4231 manager.

I agree. I actually think he would have fit Liverpool. What's failing us is not the system, but the lack of athleticism we have in key positions. I think Szobozlai, Diaz, Salah, McAllister, Gravenberch, TAA, Van Dijk and Konate would really shine in this system as the tenets of what they do are quite similar to what Amorim's system aims to achieve. Having a solid base, with quick narrow attacks. Liverpool are flying high this season, not because Slot has some Pep like system that allows for tap ins, but because Diaz, Salah, Nunez, Jota and Gakpo have the intensity, creativity, power and flair to drive attacks on their own with limited support. When Amad was fit, his ability to do this was one of the reasons he flourished so much. This is also a similar format that we used during our 06-09 years that led to so much success.

In the premier league athleticism is so important, yet we are extremely limited in that side of things particularly in attack at United.
 
That’s pretty funny when you arbitrarily discounted all the forwards from LVG’s 2014-2015 season to cherry pick what you thought looked like the weakest four.

If you can honestly look at our current attacking options and think they’re on a par with the options we had in our 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 LVG squads then there’s not much point arguing with you.

It makes perfect sense to exclude the 14-15 season since United finished 4th and had the 4th most goal. It's in 15-16 that the team struggled remarquably to score, they had the 8th most goal and it also made sense when you consider the players available.
 
the anti Amorim crowd licking their lips whenever we lose a game, knowing they can repeat their same nonsense posts for another week in here. Then go silent whenever we get a good result :lol:

Eagerly looking forward to quoting all these bullshit opinion posts next year when we’re doing better after an actual summer window.
Is anyone actually anti Amorim?

Everyone likes him, but you can't ignore the league form? He's on a run of form that would see most managers sacked.

I just pray for the Europa.
 
We dominated a team that’s 3rd in the league. With better Strikers than zirkzee and Hojlund we score a couple after 23 attempts.
 
Is anyone actually anti Amorim?

Everyone likes him, but you can't ignore the league form? He's on a run of form that would see most managers sacked.

I just pray for the Europa.
He doesn’t have good enough attackers though. We dominated and with better strikers we score a few after 23 attempts.
 
Although this system is not my favorite, i think it is not a system issue for us at the moment. It is quality of players. I mean, i really feel at times that we do not have attackers. It looks impossible to get a goal. Who was going to score yesterday? Hojlund? Zirkzee? Garnacho? All poor. Bruno drops deep to create play.

The system relies a lot on wingbacks who, in our case, are not doing enough. Dalot is obviously struggling in that position and Dorgu has done nothing so far to indicate he is good enough (probably needs time to be fair to him given he is new to the league and his age). Hopefully amad will help in the rwb position when he’s back (this is where I hope he plays).

There is also a lack of consistency in midfield and the back 3. Rotation is one thing, but what is happening is something else. It is rare that we start the same players consecutively in these positions.

It’s surely a quality issue as of now and this needs more than one transfer window. I just hope we see improvement as we progress in life under Ruben.
 
In my opinion we need to get to the summer and back him with at least 5 starting players.

RWB
CB
CM
AM
CF

We need to ship out the likes of Rashford, Sancho, Antony, Casemiro, Shaw, Lindelof, Eriksen and some others to accommodate this of course.

If the board can't deliver we will be in the same position next season. The issue is the quality of the players especially in the attacking third that we need to solve as soon as possible.
 
While the result was disappointing, there is a clear pattern emerging to our play over the last few games. We are able to create overloads on the wings and are also able to keep possession in the middle. I am quite optimistic for next season if we manage to get 2-3 quality attacking players in the summer transfer window.

Also, it’s impressive to see Ruben speak with so much clarity during the press conferences.
 
In my opinion we need to get to the summer and back him with at least 5 starting players.

RWB
CB
CM
AM
CF

We need to ship out the likes of Rashford, Sancho, Antony, Casemiro, Shaw, Lindelof, Eriksen and some others to accommodate this of course.

If the board can't deliver we will be in the same position next season. The issue is the quality of the players especially in the attacking third that we need to solve as soon as possible.
I think we can skip CB this summer if we can have the numbers, unless numbers are low it's presently serviceable.
 
I think we can skip CB this summer if we can have the numbers, unless numbers are low it's presently serviceable.
Not sure, Evans and Lindelof should be gone. Martinez is injured a lot. Shaw should go.

It leaves us with Maz, Maguire, De Ligt, Heaven and Yoro. One or two injuries and we will be in trouble.
 
He doesn’t have good enough attackers though. We dominated and with better strikers we score a few after 23 attempts.
Is that the norm though? Forest are quite unique in how they play, we should have won but many teams dominate them. Same thing happened at home as well.

If this was how we played in general, I’d be inclined to agree, but it’s not.
 
Is that the norm though? Forest are quite unique in how they play, we should have won but many teams dominate them. Same thing happened at home as well.

If this was how we played in general, I’d be inclined to agree, but it’s not.

It’s how we’ve played recently though. Which is the main thing.
 
It’s how we’ve played recently though. Which is the main thing.
The positive is the run of the last few games though the pessimist in me notes who those teams are. Hopefully we can convert the dominance and chance creation into games against the next rung of teams up the table - mouth, West Ham, wolves, Brentford all to come.