Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

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Lentwood said:
Two things with that though...

1. Maybe in a traditional back four, but Amorim explicitly said afterwards that he'd highlighted Brighton's propensity to make that exact movement - and it seems we just weren't alive to it, 5 minutes into the game.

Sometimes teams will attempt to do this (pin / isolate our wing backs) and in those games...sorry, but it's not going to be fun for Dalot and Mazraoui, they're going to have to be ultra-diligent, defend more than they attack and take one for the team.

2. What the CB wants is irrelevant. What Amorim wants is key. Reason I highlight that, though it seems petty, is it's a real bugbear of mine when the likes of Carragher, Neville and Keane say things like "if I'm playing with him, I'm telling him XYZ". Not how football works now. You're a cog in a machine, and you do the job you're in the team to do. You don't arbitrarily take it upon yourself to ask a WB to tuck in or a midfielder to tuck in or whatever, that then impacts the entire team.
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I agree with everything I’ve read that you’ve written the last page or so.

Re point 2 this is so accurate, cog in a machine is basically bang on, I’d say especially in defence. And it’s survive or die in amorims system, the way yoro was getting rinsed the other day for speed you’d click on to that straight away even in Sunday league and adjust or put someone over there to help. Yoro just got left to it, it was terrifying :lol:
 
VP89 said:
Thats fine but the team themselves were not as bad as they are now on general results.
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Where were they when ETH was sacked? Where, according to statistics, should we have finioshed last season?

If you know the answers to those, you will know that we wers as bad.
 
alexthelion said:
Where were they when ETH was sacked? Where, according to statistics, should we have finioshed last season?

If you know the answers to those, you will know that we wers as bad.
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The results are the biggest, must telling start and like it or lump it, 2 wins in 10 is atrocious if you had a novice managing our club let alone Ten Hag or Amorim.
 
SparcMac said:
https://www.attackingfootball.com/amorim-man-united-wilcox-game-model/

Absolutely beautiful article
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Sorry but it seems like a load of rubbish to me.

Firstly, Amorim is capable of delivering football that would satisfy the fans. He barely lost a game at Sporting, scored loads of goals, they fought hard and smashed City. If he delivers anything like here then it’s not an issue.

But the whole article seems incredibly out of touch with United fans. Notoriously impatient? Really? This fanbase suffered far too long under previous managers and still cheered them on until they got sacked. And I don’t think it’s true that the fans want the United of old. Most recognise it’s not really possible in the modern game, and the majority of our fans have bemoaned how far being other clubs we are with our outdated football.

And the overarching question being the whole article if whether we’re building a squad that won’t be useful if we sack Amorim. Well, if it got to that stage, we could quite easily just hire another 3 at the back type coach, such as Inzaghi etc. But it’s wrong to suggest this would be the case anyway. His previous WBs have either fared fine at fullback elsewhere, or were converted wingers. They’re the only odd role out really. So the answer is simple: move them to full back or back to their wing position. I feel like people are making a mountain out of a molehill with this rubbish now.
 
As satisfying as it is to hear that some of those players were getting the hairdryer, the emotional reaction has got me worried.

Andy Mitten on talk of the devils was highlighting how Amorim, although successful so far, is an inexperienced coach with a very young and inexperienced coaching team who have walked into a pressure cooker at United.

I’ve seen a lot of people arguing (hoping?) along the lines that this is a “calculated move”. I’m not so sure, I hope I’m wrong but it looks like someone under tremendous pressure who doesn’t know what else to do.
 
VP89 said:
Which is fine initially but when the detriment is relegation level football for 10 games there has to be adaptability and recognition that the squad isn't ready to do this just yet. Maybe we are just a couple wingback short, but right now we can't get success with the style.
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Didn't watch us against City, Liverpool or Arsenal. If you did, you would know we haven't played relegation football for 10 games.

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Rozay said:
Well a player like Garnacho, for example, who had started the season putting up the best numbers of our forward players has immediately been hung out to dry because now apparently he needs to be Zidane and not the direct winger he’s always been. Our captain has no proper role in this team either. Our breakout star from last season is drowning in this midfield set up as he needs to play in a midfield 3, not 2. Dalot, probably our best and most consistent performer last season has been hung out to dry too.

Then even if you are fed up with our existing players, even the new ones are struggling. Mazraoui, a right back, and at a push - a left back his whole career has come in, been an absolute revelation and then now suddenly, he can’t fit into the team anymore either because of some weirdo set-up we became so hell bent on overnight. Leny Yoro, one of the best young centre halves in the world would have thought he was coming here to play in a partnership, with a right back outside of him, but now finds himself playing a hybrid centre half/right back role and again - hung out to dry as a result.

Our players certainly need to have a look at themselves, but many of them have not really been given a chance by how we are trying to go about things. Replacing all of them with the requisite quality will be a huge task, and some of them will need to go due to not being good enough, but a number need to go because all of a sudden, they ‘don’t fit’ anymore.

We have become a team that plays 5 defenders now and I seem to be the only person who has a problem with that. Others are still burying their heads stating that formations don’t matter - but the fact is, if you play Dalot, De Ligt, Maguire, Martinez and Mazraoui in the same lineup, what you have is 5 defenders, whether or not you try and tell Dalot to push forward a bit. He’s been a defender for years. As has Mazraoui.
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Bruno and Garnacho are two I had in mind when I spoke of catering to wasteful inefficient types, Rashford too. "When in doubt, blast the ball always", bloodrush to the brain, no plan or reason style we can finally phase out in favour of something that can actually challenge football's elite teams. Reliance on these types have made us reliant on moments because they don't actually have good general play over the course of 90 minutes. Amad isn't suffering because he actually knows how to use positional play to score.

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion Amorim will succeed but I'm not pressed that those attackers are not being catered to.
 
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alexthelion said:
Didn't watch us against City, Liverpool or Arsenal. If you did, you would know we haven't played relegation football for 10 games.

Edited.
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I watched all the games. Amorim has too. The results are diabolical, and there's no getting away from that. I think the BS would be pretending they arent, wouldn't you?
 
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MikeUpNorth said:
The one player I noticed who was clearly not in their usual position was Bruno, who instinctively dropped into the back line at times to get on the ball. Not sure if that's what Amorim was referring to.
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Bruno moved in to Mainoo's position when Antony and Garnacho were on at the end which is what you would expect to happen, 3 10's and a single DM in Collyer would definitely be a silly thing to do IMO so I don't think the issue was Bruno dropping deep
 
Lentwood said:
Two things with that though...

1. Maybe in a traditional back four, but Amorim explicitly said afterwards that he'd highlighted Brighton's propensity to make that exact movement - and it seems we just weren't alive to it, 5 minutes into the game.

Sometimes teams will attempt to do this (pin / isolate our wing backs) and in those games...sorry, but it's not going to be fun for Dalot and Mazraoui, they're going to have to be ultra-diligent, defend more than they attack and take one for the team.

2. What the CB wants is irrelevant. What Amorim wants is key. Reason I highlight that, though it seems petty, is it's a real bugbear of mine when the likes of Carragher, Neville and Keane say things like "if I'm playing with him, I'm telling him XYZ". Not how football works now. You're a cog in a machine, and you do the job you're in the team to do. You don't arbitrarily take it upon yourself to ask a WB to tuck in or a midfielder to tuck in or whatever, that then impacts the entire team.
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I think Maz is in a good enough position, we just have big issues with pace. Mitoma times the run really well and is simply faster. That happens a lot in football at all levels, usually though there is a covering CB. The irony of playing 3 CBs and then having no covering CB in that situation is not lost on me.

Not sure what you mean on point 2 - there will be at least one CB constantly organising, you can see all of them shouting throughout the game and telling people where to go and cover. It's not like Maz is not picking up Mitoma. They are clearly trying to follow Amorim's instructions, I'm not suggesting Maguire, or whoever, is going against the plan. But there are basic things you do in all formations i.e. telling Maz where Mitoma is/to be aware etc. that's not really tactical, it just happens in every game up and down the country at all levels. If Maz was in the wrong place and none of them knew/told him then something is being lost in how Amorim is communicating with them because it's been long enough now to know how to deal with that situation, which is quite basic.
 
Greck said:
Bruno and Garnacho are two I had in mind when I spoke of catering to wasteful inefficient types, Rashford too. "When in doubt, blast the ball always", bloodrush to the brain, no plan or reason style we can finally phase out in favour of something that can actually challenge football's elite teams. Reliance on these types have made us reliant on moments because they don't actually have good general play over the course of 90 minutes. Amad isn't suffering because he actually knows how to use positional play to score.

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion Amorim will succeed but I'm not pressed that those attackers are not being catered to.
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I think both things have merit. And I also think the condemning of Garnacho is very unfair given his age and output. I have no time for Rashford, and I am also far from Bruno’s biggest fan - but I suspect that Amorim doesn’t share my views on him, so it’s still his job to try to optimise him.
 
Rozay said:
I think both things have merit. And I also think the condemning of Garnacho is very unfair given his age and output. I have no time for Rashford, and I am also far from Bruno’s biggest fan - but I suspect that Amorim doesn’t share my views on him, so it’s still his job to try to optimise him.
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Fair enough but I'm good on the other front. Optimizing Bruno is optimizing Pogba or Martial (and I was martial FC too). Whether or not we effectively replaced them whoever's decision it was to move on from them saved us from that unhealthy attachment. Bruno is one of the biggest symptoms of our inability to transition efficiently. Substandard short passing decisions and no ball carrying. Just playing balls in behind till something comes off. They don't try to think their way out of crowded situations. Fosters a reliance on a particular playstyle that fails to produce when it matters most.
 
Greck said:
Fair enough but I'm good on the other front. Optimizing Bruno is optimizing Pogba or Martial (and I was martial FC too). Whether or not we effectively replaced them whoever's decision it was to move on from them saved us from that unhealthy attachment. Bruno is one of the biggest symptoms of our inability to transition efficiently. Substandard short passing decisions and no ball carrying. Just playing balls in behind till something comes off. They don't try to think their way out of crowded situations. Fosters a reliance on a particular playstyle that fails to produce when it matters most.
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You won’t get any argument from me here, I’ve been the face of this particular campaign since Bruno’s first season here.
 
MaxZorin said:
Not sure, man.

Tables flipped and people crying.

A rollicking is well overdue, but do I want a United manager who behaves like I do when I lose at fifa/pes/life?

Oh yes, I do. I really do!
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I hope he doesn’t make a habit of it, that wouldn’t be healthy for anyone but if it’s got a bit off his chest, and the players know who the boss is now then more power to him.
 
I don’t think he’ll get sacked no matter how we finish the season but he’s had enough time now that we should be seeing improvements in performances. Even if we don’t have the perfect players in some positions the performances have just been atrocious. Surely the back 3 should be getting some sort of chemistry and same with the 2x CMs.

He can say we’ll ‘suffer’ as much as he wants but performances simply have to improve (I’m not bothered anymore about results) or are we accepting that without 2 decent wing backs we’re not able to improve in this formation? I just don’t believe that’s acceptable.

I hope he gets the summer window, gets some players in that he wants and has the summer to train this formation into them. If the performances are still dreadful at the start of next season then he’s done for.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I agree with everything I’ve read that you’ve written the last page or so.

Re point 2 this is so accurate, cog in a machine is basically bang on, I’d say especially in defence. And it’s survive or die in amorims system, the way yoro was getting rinsed the other day for speed you’d click on to that straight away even in Sunday league and adjust or put someone over there to help. Yoro just got left to it, it was terrifying :lol:
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Yeah they have to he able to play one vs one of they're useless, because some teams will try to drag the CBs out wide (Southampton), other will try to drag them into midfield (Brighton)...the players have to adapt, survive or die is right!

Leads me on to another thing I keep banging on about and that's that these players aren't 'bad' players, they just fundamentally can't do what's being asked of them...yet. They can't do it as a unit, and they can't do it as individuals.

We could hunker down into a 4-2-3-1 middle block and I'm sure we'd pick up 21+ points from our remaining 16 games but this is the path we have chosen, for better or for worse.

Amorim told us this. 99% (if not 100%) of the fanbase agreed with his "no pain, no gain" approach, and now there's a bit of pain*, they immediately fold.

*it's not real pain, it's a few bad results. We won't go down, there's always next season etc...!
 
Plant0x84 said:
Oh man, now it just sounds like he had a temper tantrum. I know he young for a coach, but really!
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Something drastic needed. So far they haven't responded to his methods and have treated him like some interim manager. Probably because he has been all smiles. Give the slackers a live demonstration of intensity.
 
Plant0x84 said:
I hope he doesn’t make a habit of it, that wouldn’t be healthy for anyone but if it’s got a bit off his chest, and the players know who the boss is now then more power to him.
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I bet you fergie ranted a lot of times… the boot to Beckham being one of them. The players need to know who the boss is and that it is unacceptable to perform the way they have been and especially at home against our fans. Let’s see if they give him a reaction on Thursday
 
DJ_21 said:
I bet you fergie ranted a lot of times… the boot to Beckham being one of them. The players need to know who the boss is and that it is unacceptable to perform the way they have been and especially at home against our fans. Let’s see if they give him a reaction on Thursday
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Lentwood said:
And yet it's ME that gets this tagline... :lol:

I have been calling Rashford cr*p and lazy for 6 years, nothing...!
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I’m almost offended that I didn’t get the title tbh. I was onto Bruno from about 10 games into his career with us.
 
SAF was renowned for his hairdryer, it must be infuriating for RA to have said the level of effort against Liverpool is what he expects every game only for the over paid lazy bunch to revert instantly to type in a game that's not against a "big club"

It's more annoying seeing they can do it, than if they simply couldn't do it. No they have shown they can do it, but only if they feel like it

Lay the feck into them its about time we had some standards around here and they were made to realise when performances are simply unacceptable, if they don't like it, get out. We don't need Oles arm around the shoulder, I want to see hairdryer turned up to full blast

I'd probably cry if I had to try and work with some of these and want to smash something up, it's bad enough watching them
 
I’ve been in lots of locker rooms where the coach loses the run of himself and breaks stuff. Those were always the teams that had the highest expectations. No one enjoys it, but if you can’t handle it then you probably don’t have the mentality required anyway.
 
I'm expecting us to turn up on Thursday and just go through them with pure effort and passion. They need to have a reaction and give the fans something to shout about! Even if we are set up with the usual formation and play American football style I'd be happier. Just smash the long ball and press them to death win it high get the ball in the box just play percentages and intensity.
 
Firstly, you do wonder: have United broken him already? It’s only been two months, but it seems like a long way from the testimony from some of those who played for him before he moved to England.


Take this, from Braga player Fransergio, who told The Athletic back in November: “He isn’t shaken by defeats. He is calm in his words, his expressions, and his posture. You won’t see him swearing or throwing things.”

And this, from Bruno Simao, who played for Amorim at Casa Pia and has known him since they were children: “He knows that he cannot react badly, because this will pass to his players… He remains calm. You get angry but you don’t pass this to the players.”
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https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6078568/2025/01/21/ruben-amorim-breaking-tv-character/

This is what happens when managers try to deal with our squad. They simply can't believe how they don't even try to apply themselves. This squad is a disaster and we have developed a culture at this club where you just have to wait out managers. They are not even trying to work with him and he can't contain it any more.

We are a disaster of a football club, we are probably the worst in the league and nothing but sheer money has stopped us from rightfully being considered one of the worst teams in england and europe. A club that has a squad culture like this, but no money, is probably in League One after a few years.
 
I wonder how the news got out of Amorim being angry and braking a tv screen. Surely something like that needs to stay behind closed doors. More leaks from someone?
 
croadyman said:
Yeah becoming clear that they pushed him to take job early despite knowing there was no money now
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If he didn’t get guarantees from INEOS that they’d give him X number of players and X number of matches/months to get his team flying, then he’s a fecking idiot for taking the job.

He was a king in Portugal and his reputation is in tatters now. He has to believe he can turn this team around, but there are 2 maybe 3 players currently who show any signs of being able to play his way. Getting hammered every week until the summer, and then getting a full preseason isn’t going to make any positive difference unless he gets in half a dozen and boots half a dozen players.
 
I think the performances against Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City have proven that player mentality is a big problem at the club. They just cant turn up every week.

As much as I think Amorim was a daft appointment given his tactics and the upheaval it would cause in trying to change the squad to his needs. INEOS need to shit or get off the pot now. Back your manager, and get him what he needs.
 
DJ_21 said:
I wonder how the news got out of Amorim being angry and braking a tv screen. Surely something like that needs to stay behind closed doors. More leaks from someone?
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Allegedly, Rashford has a baby cam installed. They should look for stuffed toys in the next sweep.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Oh man, now it just sounds like he had a temper tantrum. I know he young for a coach, but really!
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I know we see what we want to see, but if we saw an opposition manager behave like this, there'd be talk of cracking up, not handling the pressure and Keegan
 
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