Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

SAF dominated the League, playing 4-4-2 for decades. Were teams just plain stupid at that time, couldn't find a way around to beat it.

He didn't just play 442 for decades, even you know that.

 

[Dannn411]

SAF dominated the League, playing 4-4-2 for decades. Were teams just plain stupid at that time, couldn't find a way around to beat it.

No he didn't. The second great era (06-13) was a mix of 4-4-2, 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 as the need arose. Fergie was definitely tactically flexible. The hallmark of every great manager is tactical flexibiity.

 

[sleepehead]

I think he'll lose most of the dressing room by the end of the season, and even a summer to retool won't fix things. We don't have the money to rebuild a whole team and it seems like we need to buy more than half a starting squad to make it happen.

What also doesn't help him is that only 1 young player seems to fit his play style quickly. Garnacho isn't a 10 and he's not even being tried as a LWB. Mainoo is having ups and downs in this system, Yoro doesn't seem like he'll fit in perfectly as the RCB because we need someone who can handle playing wide and deal with faster players. And Hojlund/Zirkzee seem to be taking turns in who is having success with this system and who is utter dog shit every 2 weeks

To me if you're going to commit to Amad playing the RAM then let Dalot be the RWB and try Garnacho as the LWB at least they'd be closer to roles they understand and he'd still have his wish of having 1 attacking wb and and 1 defending. But he seems hesitant to try this even though the current setup isn't working either. If he's adamant in making his system work then he needs to be a bit more flexible in other aspects of the team

 

[Redfrog]

Iraola's initial results were comparably bad though, weren't they?

My worry is less the results themselves, but that I don't see any pattern of improvement in the way we are playing *and* the results are bad.

It’s always the same story with this team. We saw some improvements at first then the players are not trying anymore or don’t have the technical and physical attributs to perform the game plan.
When you have Eriksen and Casemiro as your backup midfielders, you know you’ll run the other ones into the ground because you can’t play them.
Then you have strikers who can score or wing backs who can’t run and attack properly, you know you are fecked.
Iraola would fail too with the players we have. They are not suited for modern game.

 

[Eric's-collar]

Yeah fair point, but I was responding to the comment that we get dominated by every single team we play. That simply hasn't been the case.

Every home game, when the onus is on us to attack, we leave ourselves wide open, that needs fixed, while looking pretty clueless in attack

 

[Redfrog]

I think he'll lose most of the dressing room by the end of the season, and even a summer to retool won't fix things. We don't have the money to rebuild a whole team and it seems like we need to buy more than half a starting squad to make it happen.

What also doesn't help him is that only 1 young player seems to fit his play style quickly. Garnacho isn't a 10 and he's not even being tried as a LWB. Mainoo is having ups and downs in this system, Yoro doesn't seem like he'll fit in perfectly as the RCB because we need someone who can handle playing wide and deal with faster players. And Hojlund/Zirkzee seem to be taking turns in who is having success with this system and who is utter dog shit every 2 weeks

To me if you're going to commit to Amad playing the RAM then let Dalot be the RWB and try Garnacho as the LWB at least they'd be closer to roles they understand and he'd still have his wish of having 1 attacking wb and and 1 defending. But he seems hesitant to try this even though the current setup isn't working either. If he's adamant in making his system work then he needs to be a bit more flexible in other aspects of the team

It will be the same with any manager. The ETH era was a disaster. We bought expansive, overpaid, unsealable players and have no money left. The only transfer you can argue about is Martinez and even him is meh and too expansive for the player he is.

 

[Redivy]

I think he'll lose most of the dressing room by the end of the season, and even a summer to retool won't fix things. We don't have the money to rebuild a whole team and it seems like we need to buy more than half a starting squad to make it happen.

What also doesn't help him is that only 1 young player seems to fit his play style quickly. Garnacho isn't a 10 and he's not even being tried as a LWB. Mainoo is having ups and downs in this system, Yoro doesn't seem like he'll fit in perfectly as the RCB because we need someone who can handle playing wide and deal with faster players. And Hojlund/Zirkzee seem to be taking turns in who is having success with this system and who is utter dog shit every 2 weeks

To me if you're going to commit to Amad playing the RAM then let Dalot be the RWB and try Garnacho as the LWB at least they'd be closer to roles they understand and he'd still have his wish of having 1 attacking wb and and 1 defending. But he seems hesitant to try this even though the current setup isn't working either. If he's adamant in making his system work then he needs to be a bit more flexible in other aspects of the team

He won’t lose the dressing room because it’s already being torn up.

Rashford
Casemiro
Eriksen
Garnacho
Lindelof
Malacia
Zirkzee
Antony

All these players look to be on their way out by the summer transfer window. The remaining players like Amad, Ugarte, Maguire, De Ligt, Yoro, Onana, Dalot, Maz and Bruno aren’t players who are going to lead a revolt. They are all professionals.

The players also can see with the club willing to offload Rashford and Garnacho, that they can’t just stink up the place anymore, and Amorim is the new regimes guy, they will give him a long lead.

 

[Woziak]

The irony is most of these players won two trophies under ETH and were ‘Moments FC’ now they are just ‘Not Bothered FC’

I was seriously worried about Amorim, not because I don’t think he’s a great young coach but more because I thought he was untested in EPL and major European football. This job might have come 3 or 4 years to early and he should have gone manage West Ham first and got them into the CL/EL regularly before he came here?

At 39 Ruben can get away with his clever words and reverse psychology with younger players looking to rise through the Football hierarchy, however with players like Casemiro, Rashford, Shaw, Mount Bruno, MDL, Eriksen, Mazraoui, Onana, Evans, they’ve won bigger tournaments or been involved in bigger games they not impressed by his Portuguese CV, even Mainoo and Garnaucho are looking at his system, thinking that won’t better my career, and we are not wining anything with this muppet when he throws us under the bus by saying it’s the worst team in United History but 9 months ago we beat the best club side at the time in the FA CUP.

I said it and I meant it Conte wanted the United job, his coveted for almost a decade and he would have been the right man to get the job, before ETH he would have done his 2/3 years but turned the players into warriors and he was more flexible to either play 343,352, 3421 system but interestingly he’s playing a lot of 433 with Napoli and they are top of Serie A right now, a much better league than the Portuguese league to draw a conclusion of how good your coach is?

Conte is the only coach to win the EPL with 3 at the back yet we didn’t even interview him ?

 

[Plant0x84]

He won't last that long. And don't forget, you assuming he will not lose the dressing room until then. Inability to hold on with some respectable performances at home will be his undoing.

Of course he will. Sacking him before the end of the season would be a mockery, not to say entirely unfair when he didn’t want to come mid season anyway.
I don’t think he’s too concerned about losing the dressing room, these aren’t his players. Many if not most will be replaced anyway.
The heavy fixture congestion at this part of the season is not being kind to him, but results will improve and we’ll scrape by this season to live another day. Vivell and Wilcox better have a ruddy good plan for the summer, they’re gonna have to earn their keep!

 

[marx_2]

Kind of confused by the mood / support of the Caf. Almost like many are turning on Amorim.

Results have been shit. I see some green shoots of progress, like more control of games, better possession numbers, a much more organized high press, etc.

I’d like to point out that many of the ETH defenders - to the very last day - were saying it was the players, not ETH.

The players are not good enough and never were. The entire first 11 with ETH were basically his players, save Bruno. The difference is that ETH had a full preseason, 600m in transfers and a transfer veto. Amorim is stuck with ETH’s players, no preseason, and a big fat zero in transfer spend.

The Caf loves to bash Ole, and call him the “PE teacher” and criticize his counterattacking football, but the fact remains, he was the best of the post SAF managers. No, he never won a trophy, but he got the best out of Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Mason, Maguire, Shaw, McFred, hell, Jesse fecking Lingard.

Sad that I look back on those days a bit wistfully. Given the state of the club and how dire our circumstances are, we should look back upon his time a bit more favorably…

Exactly

And coming to EPL, managing a club of the size of United is a step up for almost any coach. So what

It was possibly even bigger step up for Arne Slot to join Liverpool from Feyenoord. In no way is Feyenoord bigger club than Sporting, neither is Netherlands stronger league than Portugal. And Slot seems to be fine. Why? Because he didn't inherit a shit squad, leftovers from 12 years of utter mismanagement. Amorim did

That is the difference. I am certain Amorim is not worse coach than Slot

You are totally wrong. Slot is able to convince a squad how to play, how to communicate, how to become fit. Amorim only complains that he inherited a terrible squad. That argument is not really convincing anyone to improve. Amorim is a one-trick pony.

 

[Plant0x84]

Slot is able to convince a squad how to play, how to communicate, how to become fit.

Truth is that what Slot is doing at Liverpool isn’t radically different from what Klopp was doing at Liverpool. He isn’t trying to introduce a new system as Amorim is doing. You say he is a one trick pony but it’s what has brought him success before and was why he was hired over all others. We are still early days, and results will improve.

 

[Toshey]

But Amorim never openly complained about his squad, did he? He literally said: "You want to get headlines, you want me to say we are the worst Manchester United team? Here, have your headlines!"
It's more of a dig against the journalists, than against the players. Don't understand how people fail to get that.

Also, Slot inheritet a well balanced and drilled squad. With a lot of upcoming players who had the chance to have sporadic appearances under Klopp and actually develop.
Our transfer plan includes immediately throwing youngsters into the mix and the complaining that Lenny Yoro got outpaced or Mainoo can't play 3 games a week.

This thread is becoming toxic at this point. Conversations are going nowhere. It's all come down to "you are the coach of Manchester United and players cost a lot of money, do better now or I'll complain about it in my life journal!".
Hopefully players give us a performance against Rangers, so we can get 3 normal days.

 

[Wolfbot]

Hope those "worst United team in history" comments don't backfire. He's been speaking well in press conferences but that was unnecessary.

Would much rather he said they were shite, which they are, than pretending they're playing well and being unlucky.

 

[VP89]

Would much rather he said they were shite, which they are, than pretending they're playing well and being unlucky.

I'd rather he gave proper context behind it and acknowledged his inflexible approach to the system is contributing to it. He has a good set of players in a lot of areas but they aren't suited to his system.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Of course he will. Sacking him before the end of the season would be a mockery, not to say entirely unfair when he didn’t want to come mid season anyway.
I don’t think he’s too concerned about losing the dressing room, these aren’t his players. Many if not most will be replaced anyway.
The heavy fixture congestion at this part of the season is not being kind to him, but results will improve and we’ll scrape by this season to live another day. Vivell and Wilcox better have a ruddy good plan for the summer, they’re gonna have to earn their keep!

The whole thing is just so heartbreaking. He is a good manager, he came to us in our worst financial ebb. The fear factor is gone, even with money i don't see we can pull good players into his system.

 

[Nogho]

There is a lot of talent in this squad. But sadly talent isn’t worth more then physicality and system in Premier League. We loose against team that bully us and run pass us.

We are small and weak and often weak minded.

On paper, not a team on bottom half has ”better” players then us. But they often are stronger, more drilled and play with more power.

Our back three that gets a lot of criticism is actually players that all of the bottom half teams would welcome with open arms. But they getting exposed game in and game out by our midfield. Been like this for ages.

 

[Plant0x84]

The whole thing is just so heartbreaking. He is a good manager, he came to us in our worst financial ebb. The fear factor is gone, even with money i don't see we can pull good players into his system.

Worst case scenario he signs a loan of Portuguese players and we become Sporting Club de England.

 

[Nogho]

Worst case scenario he signs a loan of Portuguese players and we become Sporting Club de England.

It won’t be easy to get the best players in. We don’t have the money, no Europe and results that talks for themself. And clubs nowadays have extremely competent scouts and data even on lower level.

I’m not really sure what our usp is any longer? Sure Amorim as a coach. But other then?

 

[Ayoba]

Has a manger ever managed to turn things around after losing so many games, especially at home? I can't think of many.

I worry he is so deep in the mire now, it just seems improbable that he can change things, especially considering how young and inexperienced he is at the top level.

 

[Adz_99]

Has a manger ever managed to turn things around after losing so many games, especially at home? I can't think of many.

I worry he is so deep in the mire now, it just seems improbable that he can change things, especially considering how young and inexperienced he is at the top level.

Probably not, but then again how many managers have come in mid-season and taken over a side who were about 10 places off where they should be in the table? We were an absolute shambles (and we still are). The bar is so low that a couple of wins strung together would be significant progress.

I'm starting to get Graham Potter at Chelsea vibes though. Amorim has to get us into the top half of the table. If we're still 13th (or worse) come May then I'd get rid.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The whole thing is just so heartbreaking. He is a good manager, he came to us in our worst financial ebb. The fear factor is gone, even with money i don't see we can pull good players into his system.

Yeah, it would definitely fit with the whole post-Fergie gypsy curse vibes if we finally stumble on a manager who actually has the chops to get us back on our perch, only to do this at a time when we don't have the money that any new manager would need to build a successful squad. Makes your heart bleed to think about the funds made available to much less impressive managers.

 

[Adz_99]

Yeah, it would definitely fit with the whole post-Fergie gypsy curse vibes if we finally stumble on a manager who actually has the chops to get us back on our perch, only to do this at a time when we don't have the money that any new manager would need to build a successful squad. Makes your heart bleed to think about the funds made available to much less impressive managers.

Is it that we don't have the money, or that we can't spend and comply with PSR?

If it's the latter then I say just break the rules and take the points deduction on the chin next season.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Is it that we don't have the money, or that we can't spend and comply with PSR?

If it's the latter then I say just break the rules and take the points deduction on the chin next season.

I honestly have no idea. I don't think anyone does. The whole climate of frantic cost cutting at the club doesn't bode well though.

 

[Isotope]

No he didn't. The second great era (06-13) was a mix of 4-4-2, 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 as the need arose. Fergie was definitely tactically flexible. The hallmark of every great manager is tactical flexibiity.

The heart of United was always 4-4-2 under SAF. A slight variance when Queiroz was here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_UEFA_Champions_League_final

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Football_League_Cup_final

https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...ion-and-manchester-uniteds-recent-usage-of-it (4-2-3-1 is just Rooney dropping deeper.)

https://ristogjorgjiev.com/2023/06/...-behind-manchester-uniteds-2013-league-title/

 

[Gordon'sHill]

Has a manger ever managed to turn things around after losing so many games, especially at home? I can't think of many.

I worry he is so deep in the mire now, it just seems improbable that he can change things, especially considering how young and inexperienced he is at the top level.

I fear you may be right. I was genuinely excited by his appointment and was never as convinced by ETH and felt the wheels were already coming off by end of his first season, but his awful eye for a player was what killed him for me. But with Amorim as some of the more thoughtful journos have pointed out, the top coaches are not so inflexible, they can and do adapt. Its also a huge indictment of the INEOS team that unlike say Brighton, who have a clear style of play and hire managers and acquire players to fit that, we've gone for an extreme structure-focused manager without players to implement it. Ashworth must be chortling into his coffee at this point. Of course the real problem is the decade of Glazer neglect and their even more catastrophic hirings, but it seems INEOS are now merely continuing the cycle.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

The heart of United was always 4-4-2 under SAF. A slight variance when Queiroz was here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_UEFA_Champions_League_final

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Football_League_Cup_final

https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...ion-and-manchester-uniteds-recent-usage-of-it (4-2-3-1 is just Rooney dropping deeper.)

https://ristogjorgjiev.com/2023/06/...-behind-manchester-uniteds-2013-league-title/

I think sometimes we obsess too much about a starting formation. The approach of Fergie definitely evolved from a more gung ho 442 with flying wingers to one more controlled and possession based as he looked to adapt in order to compete in Europe.

 

[marx_2]

Truth is that what Slot is doing at Liverpool isn’t radically different from what Klopp was doing at Liverpool. He isn’t trying to introduce a new system as Amorim is doing. You say he is a one trick pony but it’s what has brought him success before and was why he was hired over all others. We are still early days, and results will improve.

With top players the result will improve. Sure. But the problem is that top players don’t want to come. It has been a graveyard for such players. Only over-the-hill oldies (like Casemiro, Eriksen) and young talented players (Hojlund, Zirkzee) may be convinced to come. And an other problem is that in the PL one-trick ponies are destroyed. You need to be tactically flexible in order to have success, if you don’t have the strongest squad financed by Abu Dhabi.

 

[swooshboy]

Probably not, but then again how many managers have come in mid-season and taken over a side who were about 10 places off where they should be in the table? We were an absolute shambles (and we still are). The bar is so low that a couple of wins strung together would be significant progress.

I'm starting to get Graham Potter at Chelsea vibes though. Amorim has to get us into the top half of the table. If we're still 13th (or worse) come May then I'd get rid.

He was bought in for next season, not this season. He needs a transfer window and a pre-season under his belt.

Absolute lunacy to say that if we are 12th, he stays, but if we are 14th, he has to go.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Every home game, when the onus is on us to attack, we leave ourselves wide open, that needs fixed, while looking pretty clueless in attack

Yeah I'm not arguing against that point, just the point that we've been dominated in "every single game" when we clearly haven't!

 

[Adz_99]

He was bought in for next season, not this season. He needs a transfer window and a pre-season under his belt.

Absolute lunacy to say that if we are 12th, he stays, but if we are 14th, he has to go.

Is it lunacy to say Manchester United should be finishing higher than 14th?

For what its worth, I think he's a good manager and I'm still cautiously optimistic we'll limp into the top half of the table. I'm not asking for miracles, just a small improvement.

 

[We Are Manchester United]

So we will bring in someone who will turn Rasmus and Zirkzee into 20 goal a season strikers, will get Rashford's head out of his arse. Will turn turn Onana into VDS, will turn Garnacho into prime Giggs. Bruno into prime Scholes. Mainoo into Roy Keane. Our CB's into Rio/Vidic, our fullbacks into Neville and Evra. Because no matter who comes in, whatever system, some of these players are crap. This system has actually worked at times. The big problem is our players cannot cope with playing a lot of games, well let me tell them something that is what a Manchester United player does. The biggest issue we have is a squad with not enough quality to be able to rotate. Certain players get played to death. Trouble is Ineos are going down the potential market, which is fine if it is top potential, however you also need to be bringing in experience as well. Bringing in potential at the strikers position and nobody else with experience was negligence of the highest order.

Like this post. Squad is so thin and players we have are not very good = poor results.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

There is a lot of talent in this squad. But sadly talent isn’t worth more then physicality and system in Premier League. We loose against team that bully us and run pass us.

We are small and weak and often weak minded.

On paper, not a team on bottom half has ”better” players then us. But they often are stronger, more drilled and play with more power.

Our back three that gets a lot of criticism is actually players that all of the bottom half teams would welcome with open arms. But they getting exposed game in and game out by our midfield. Been like this for ages.

I hear this a lot by English pundits, and not just about United. It's like a go-to line, a "one size fits all" statement, and everyone around the table nods in agreement. Just for once, i'd like one of them to raise his/her hand and ask a simple question: "If that's the case, why do English clubs, when they face La Liga opposition, more often than not, get their arses handed to them?".

 

[U-N-I-T-E-D]

It’s worrying to watch United at the moment. I think a lot of our players abilities are overhyped and he hasn’t got the team he needs but that said some of the frustrations seem to be coached into them.

So many times against Brighton and Southampton you felt we needed to kick start an attack or have some urgency but a few of the players were signalling to each other to slow it down, take their time - that seems like direct instructions from the coaching staff.

This lead to the excruciating passing of the ball between the back 3, with DeLigt in the middle against Soton and then Maguire on Sunday. There was absolutely nothing going forward. No off the ball runs, no pass and go’s, no intricate passing patterns.

It seems we’ve been stuck in this exact predicament for the best part of 5-6 seasons now. It’s so flat and boring to watch.

 

[silvercre]

I'd rather he gave proper context behind it and acknowledged his inflexible approach to the system is contributing to it. He has a good set of players in a lot of areas but they aren't suited to his system.

You know he said "we are ..." that includes him and the staff.

For you just that reminder about inflexibility, ETH argumenting with a journalist after Liverpool 3-0.

Heh

 

[Isotope]

I think sometimes we obsess too much about a starting formation. The approach of Fergie definitely evolved from a more gung ho 442 with flying wingers to one more controlled and possession based as he looked to adapt in order to compete in Europe.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Shinjch]

The more I think about it and look at the big picture, I really struggle to see how his stubborness is the answer at the moment. Even with five central players against Brighton there were times that they just ran straight through the middle like the Ten Hag days. If him and upper management think the squad needs gutted then what is the point in sticking with a formation that is not only making us look worse against the teams we should be competitive with, but is also making our players look like even less sellable assets? What is the upside?

Either way, we need to stick with a manager for a time to build something. But his start has been grim.

 

[deef]

I get the frustration right after a game but people still arguing here baffles me. He stressed in every interview that we will have our up and downs. Now after a loss to a team we lost regulary because of individual errors and a lot in here are loosing there shit.

Our pressing is still not working good enough which makes it a lot harder for the whole team to defend or find the right timing to push forward or sit deeper.

I am frustrated as most are but seriously get a grip.

And to be clear: i am not saying that Amorim will be our savior or definitly get it right but I doubt that any other manager would have done significant better.

 

[VP89]

You know he said "we are ..." that includes him and the staff.

For you just that reminder about inflexibility, ETH argumenting with a journalist after Liverpool 3-0.

Heh

Thats fine but the team themselves were not as bad as they are now on general results.

 

[Lyng]

Thats fine but the team themselves were not as bad as they are now on general results.

You can flip that argument around though. ETH gave in to the players and tried to create a system based on them and over the whole period of his reign we only went backwards.
Amorim is taking a different approach and its way to early to judge where it ends.

 

[Berbaclass]

Ruben has had enough