I love how he basically called our players pussies and losers, got them hyper motivated to put on a show and is now using that as fuel for maintaining the standards
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
That was the point I was making that you initially disagreed with. If you look back.
I personally think too much is made of our effort levels. I'm not saying they are always perfect but I rarely watch a game and think the players aren't putting it in aside from Rashford.
More often I think it's a case of lacking athletic ability or just the required talent.
If you have two midfielders who are just physically way off where they need to be you're done. Doesn't matter how everyone else plays. Especially against a good team.
Totally agree. Too many individual mistakes. Is that because they have half of their mind on the system? Maybe. But i dont think Bruno gets sent off v Wolves because of the system, or Maz puts in that bad tackle v Bournemouth or Onana lets one in v Forest because of system. Silly mistakes.
De Ligt looked poor on the first goal, but to be fair, i think he probably expected it to be squared across goal, so dived in to block it. Most times, Gakpo squares that for Salah for a tap in. It just so happened Salah wasnt there, but MDL wasnt to know that in the moment.
That’s what I am getting at. He really had few options.
Intensity and patience. The biggest culprit in us giving balls away is that we play passes that are not there to be played. Yesterday, we took our time until we had the correct amount of bodies and players in position. So good to see.
Not, lets make sure this is not another City win, where we crumble in the next 3-4 games.
Ugarte and Fernandes were suspended but how could have started Mainoo with Cas
I don't think you are quite right in the bolded bit, the players' collective efforts levels aren't that high generally, teams usually outrun us and outwork us, it is in the stats I think in distance covered, even Amorim pointed to the issues of team's intensity in his latest comments, the intensity and efforts levels yesterday was something I have not seen for a long time.
and on Cas & Eriksen, again, I know what's their limit, but they did manage to play as the 2 holding mids ahead of a back 4 in 2022-2023, it's not like they aged that much since then, and with a back 3 and 2 AMs ahead of them they do not need to manage a huge space since the formation itself is compact by design, the problem that was very obvious in the game vs Newcastle was the whole team did not put in an effort, we didn't see CBs stepping into midfield and tackle, we didn't see AMs and CMs tracking runners and tackling and nipping at the heels of their opponents, and against Liverpool, they all did that, again, Mainoo & Ugarte are far better as duo compared to Cas & Eriksen because they have the legs to keep up the intensity, but if Eriksen and Cas played with higher intensity vs Newcastle, and everyone else too vs Newcastle, the results might have been different.
I know with parachuting in when he has, with the schedule and also the variety of injuries/illness and suspensions that have come at this time of year plus having to get to know players has lead to a lot of line up change. Hopefully with this game and with the week before the next game, we now stick to a consistent line up for the most part.
That is indeed what happened, and the players are on board with it. Let‘s see if they can do it against Southampton, Fulham and the likes.
I've watched United for over 30 years.
Anfield is the ultimate test for any United player or United Manager.
If one can go to Anfield and deliver in United colours that person deserves everything good in this world.
Amorim has it in him to deliver, we didn't fold, we didn't feel inferior, we didn't crumble under pressure. Funny enough, we grew in stature as game progressed it's remarkable.
My main problem with Amorim was he wasn't able to extract maximum from this crop of players, to warrant $500m new players, but that fear was extinguished yesterday. He pushed these players to levels we've not seen.
Bruno was Redondo-esque, Ugarte Keane-esque, Yoro in Rio lane., Dalot was like Evra on the wing.
Amorim needs to tighten the screw on that performance level. Ineos needs to invest on where Amorim wants. Fans needs to support the team now.
There really wasn't much option with Bruno and Ugarte suspended.
Kudos for this.@pocco it can be done!!!!
343 can be done.
I think a lot of people needed convincing on the pitch. And it was delivered yesterday.
I believe any arguments about the tactics or not, has been closed.
Work now is on Amorim to construct a title winning squad. He should be given absolutely anything he needs.
Yes it was me
That Bruno to Martinez ball hopefully becomes a repeatable play for us. We saw a lot of that when Cavani (and Martial) were leading the line for us but we have seen less of it in the last few years
If Bruno and Ugarte are unavailable again this season you’d be fine with him sending out that team in that set up?
Is the dippers game away a corner he's turned with this lot next game we find out and next game after that and the game after that.. we will soon find out
One thing I'm curious is that how the dressing room reacts to the club and probably Amorim booting the freeloader (Casemiro, Rashford) and the not so good players Anthony and Zirkzee
Will they be supportive and says feck yeah, or?
I can't believe any professional who's passionate about their career would love to play alongside those names.
Will they be supportive and says feck yeah, or?
I can't believe any professional who's passionate about their career would love to play alongside those names.
I imagine there's a big difference between how players perceive Casemiro and Rashford (at least I would hope so). Casemiro is a serial winner in the latter stages of his career, who is fading quickly due to his physical attributes diminishing. I think many younger players will still revere him, even if he doesn't put in great performances on the pitch now. Rashford is a completely different story of someone who has failed to consistently live up to his potential, and is now being pretty unprofessional.
Its quite clear that was close to Amorim's best 11 at the moment. The issue is that we cannot play Ugarte and Mainoo every game and the drop off in energy is too much. Casemiro Eriksen cannot play in this team, but they are the only options.
Then we have attack the same too, there is no Bruno, Amad replacement, Garnacho is the only one. So we are really struggling to rotate because the players are not good enough.
Hopefully we get a few deals done in January to give us a better chance in the second half of the season.
Since when is Casemiro a freeloader? Not the player he once was, but a freeloader?
Get with the narrative. If they aren’t playing then they are freeloading. Doesn’t matter if they are not picked or have a leg hanging off, it’s their fault!
Maybe it's the benefit of the mentorship he had from Mourinho or maybe it's just his natural charisma but he's working the media and players perfectly at the moment.
Don't want to get too giddy about it, but in terms of personality he's coming across a bit like Jose but adjusted for the more delicate modern generation.
Don't want to get too giddy about it, but in terms of personality he's coming across a bit like Jose but adjusted for the more delicate modern generation.
I think Casemiro would be fine playing next to Ugarte (as they did while Ruud was in charge). Even playing next to Mainoo isn't too bad, although not something you'd want to see against teams with a lot of athleticism and power in midfield. Playing Casemiro and Eriksen as the duo though is just setting them both up to fail terribly. They were quite often getting overrun even 2 years ago in their first season, so with both of them declining even further since then it's a recipe for disaster. Eriksen is so far gone I don't think he can play in a midfield two at all no matter who the partner is.
Of course, from what we've seen so far Amorim sees Bruno as the main backup/competition for Mainoo, with then someone (probably Garnacho) taking over the #10 role.
So it's really Ugarte that we don't have cover for at all. Everyone relies on being able to play next to him so he can provide the legs and defensive cover, and even weaker teams will fancy their chances of controlling the middle of the park if he's not there.
I agree with that. The thing is you can't really have a go at the manager when we have 1 midfielder who can play that position. Ugarte's play style is also one that he will pick up yellow cards and be suspended.
It is interesting that Amorim has not given any youngster a chance, he knows that Eriksen cannot play in midfield, I would have liked to have seen Collyer in there just for his energy.
He must not rate our academy players.
No, but we've no alternative (at the moment).
mate....Casemiro is light years in a different class than Rashford so comparing those two is a bit mental
Antony is shit...he's got to get sold but much like Rashford finding a buyer who doesn't want just a loan is going to be a challenge
zirkzee works hard but this system just isn't good for what he does...nothing against the lad as his application isn't poor
Don’t think Casemiro can be accused of lack of effort , he just doesn’t have the legs for the prem.
I am surprised we haven't seen him, just for his legs and running. Even if he isn't the best passer and is technically lacking. Better than Eriksen in there imo. If Eriksen plays he has to play as a 10
The lack of cover was completely predictable too. We got rid of Fred, Amrabat and McTominay and replaced them with one new signing. Even if we were in denial about Eriksen and Casemiro hitting the wall we’ve still created a basic numbers problem in central midfield. So short sighted.
I guess a miraculous recovery from Mount’s chronic injury problems does at least give us more options. We’re still horribly short of specialist CMs though. When you look at how stacked the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool are in that position it really brings it home how much work we still need to do on our squad. And most people don’t mention CMs as a priority. The focus is on a striker and LWB.
In the context of this thread it’s really just more evidence that it would be incredibly foolhardy to write off Amorim until he has a much better squad at his disposal.
He's going to last longer than any other manager since SAF, but I feel like we have to temper our expectations significantly. Right now, we definitely need
a right wing back and a left wing back
a striker
a player comfortable in the RF/LF positions
and in the next few years we arguably need
Another GK
A ball playing CB to replace maguire
midfield competition for mainoo
There's just no way we can do all of that in the summer transfer window, so I'm hoping as the season kicks on if we remain out of touch for the top 4, we put all our eggs in the europa league basket and start giving some of your youth players PL minutes. We may uncover a player or two that negate the need to spend big int he transfer window. Ibragimov looks perfect for a LF/RF role, and we have several great young defenders coming through.
Immediate and obvious first port of call MUST be attacking wing backs. When you have Ugarte and 3 CB'S Behind you, being solid defensively isn't even that big a requirement, but we have to get better players than we currently have if Amorim really wants this system to flourish. It'll be interesting to see average position maps for sporting wing backs versus ours, Id wager they are at least 10 yards further up the pitch than Maz/dalot currently are.
a right wing back and a left wing back
a striker
a player comfortable in the RF/LF positions
and in the next few years we arguably need
Another GK
A ball playing CB to replace maguire
midfield competition for mainoo
There's just no way we can do all of that in the summer transfer window, so I'm hoping as the season kicks on if we remain out of touch for the top 4, we put all our eggs in the europa league basket and start giving some of your youth players PL minutes. We may uncover a player or two that negate the need to spend big int he transfer window. Ibragimov looks perfect for a LF/RF role, and we have several great young defenders coming through.
Immediate and obvious first port of call MUST be attacking wing backs. When you have Ugarte and 3 CB'S Behind you, being solid defensively isn't even that big a requirement, but we have to get better players than we currently have if Amorim really wants this system to flourish. It'll be interesting to see average position maps for sporting wing backs versus ours, Id wager they are at least 10 yards further up the pitch than Maz/dalot currently are.
Right now, I'd personally say CM is our priority. Cas and Eriksson seem past it, Mount is injured. We saw against Liverpool what were capable of with a functioning midfield.
Exactly, I am surprised too. Considering he has energy, surely he can partner with Casemiro or Mainoo to play in that position, he will give it his all and run around.
I like Amorim but I was very surprised he went for Casemiro & Eriksen in midfield again, notwithstanding the suspensions to Bruno & Ugarte.
Cas and Eriksen started Ruben's first game v Ipswich and got the runaround. Both players were seldom used since, and never together, until the Newcastle game. I thought it would have been Cas and Mainoo.
Maybe he thought Mainoo was not in good form and needed a rest, maybe he thought the Cas-Eriksen partnership needed one more outing to confirm what he all saw at Ipswich, that it doesn't work. Who knows?! But it was a mistake on his part which I hope he's learnt from!
That’s his literal job. To come up with solutions that would stand a chance in a game. We fans don’t need to have an alternative in mind to realise that what he put out was just wrong. That was the cause of the whole pragmatism discussion before the last game.
Hopefully he’s learned from that.
Don't think this is true. In the situation we are in it's not the best time to throw youngsters in. I think once we are safe some of the youngsters will play. Also Collyear has been injured
What choice would he have, bring Collyer into the team who isn't ready for PL football?
Collyer has been in the squad for at least 2/3 weeks. If you look at most young players, that's when they actually get their chances, when the team is not at its best.
Hardly is there a youngster who is thrown in when the team is firing and doing well.
Who said he isn't ready? The alternative is Eriksen who is clearly past it and cannot run
No, I don't think it's a corner turned with THIS lot of players. We've seen similar performances under Amorim where we've gone to Arsenal and City and played well insofar as keeping possession and not giving up multiple chances, without creating a hell of a lot of chances ourselves.
The difference in this game is that Liverpool had a defender who was phoning it in and we exploited that and created chances.
I think what it does show is that Amorim's system does work if the players are good enough and consistent enough. But I don't trust (a lot of) these players to replicate that performance, that's the problem.
I think that's a very charitable interpretation of Liverpool's performance. Trent may have been the scapegoat but he wasn't their only issue. There was space down our left because their midfielders struggled too, Salah was very average, and because our players played pretty well. We just outperformed them on the day in my opinion as a team, not because of any one player. Gakpo was very good for them I thought though, as was MacAllister on the whole.