Also no one wanted him to start with
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
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A lot of managers only have one idea. As a profile, Amorim is no different to Klopp or Guardiola in the sense that they have a very clear and defined way in which they see the game. You can tweak certain things within the system, but largely, the idea stays the same.
Catman behind Amorim.
The minimum expectation this season is to have seen a vast improvement in the way the play before the end of the season (with or without much movement in January). I would expect to see more structure and familiarity with the formation by then. I’d expect us to finish around 9-10th.
We shouldn’t be giving ANY manager £300m … we should be buying players as a club, not like the mess we embarked on with ETH.
I'd say five points from those games should be enough. Less than that and he's in trouble yeah.
Largely, no. He may have played with a back four once or twice in his career to date. Would need a Sporting fan to confirm. In the situation you describe, he would stick to his system but he could tweak certain elements of it to make it more pragmatic/even counter attacking if necessary.
The 2 games I attended it seemed like a WB would occasionally drop back and change the formation but largely was a 343 from what I’ve seen
André Villas-Boas did not meet expectations and lacked consistent success in his EPL managerial roles after performing well in a smaller league. I would prefer to cut our losses early if he cannot defeat three teams with weaker squads.
Weaker squads? Our squad is absolutely chalked full of shit
Let's remember that Brighton beat us at OT the last two seasons.
And we needed extra time goals the past two seasons from Bruno and Garnacho to beat Fulham away.
Yeah, the wing-backs are hugely important. The 'one idea' schtick may pinpoint Amorim as limited, but there are many different nuances and variations within his system that in reality make him a lot more than one dimensional.
How much silverware do Southampton, Brighton, and Fulham have combined over the last few seasons? Did any of these clubs finish above us last season?
Completely the wrong approach unfortunately.
If only we'd agreed to take Amorim at the end of the season and keep Ruud in charge til then. This isnt just hindsight, a lot of us were saying this at the time.
Ahhh let’s compare last seasons squad with our current squad and form.
He inherited an Ancelotti side that had finished 2nd, and the season before that had won the League and FA Cup double. Hardly the same as the steaming turd of a squad that Ten Hag had left on Amorim's welcome mat.
Relegation is as likely as United suddenly going on an unbeaten streak currently.
I have no issues with Amorim trying to implement his plan, just it's evidently not working so could do with some adapting to turn things around in terms of results.
Else relegation will be a very very real possibility instead of an outside chance.
The situation with AVB was a bit different IIRC. He showed strong tactical nous early on, but didn't have the man management / people skills to handle Chelsea's squad full of strong personalities. He lost the dressing room quickly, got sacked, and his career never really recovered from that.
Mctominay is the only key difference.
Ten Hag won two trophies and got Champions League football out of this steaming turd of a squad.
If only Palace had stuck with De Boer.
Depends how long a streak I guess.
What would constitute "adapting"? What does he need to sacrifice that would lead to better results? I feel that he's managing the team the only way he knows how.
Fulham and Brighton have been playing a consistent style of football for years now and been troubling all of the top sides. There’s quite a few players in the Fulham squad that would improve our system.
Only the Southampton game would be a big shock if we didn’t win.
The "one idea" thing has become a little lost in translation I fear. It's more about principles of play than it is strictly formation.
Wow, you're really negative about Amorim. Obviously from his point of view, the timing of his arrival wasn't great, as he alluded to previously. Even so, alarming lack of patience on your part.
Agreed. Just the same as any modern manager worth their salt.
Success in smaller leagues does not necessarily translate to success in larger leagues. The job might just be too big for him.
Fulham and Brighton finished below United last season, so the idea that their teams are better than United's contradicts the notion that ETH was a bad manager.
I haven't seen anything positive so far. If he turns it around, I will admit I was wrong.
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I will stand behind Amorim for a year. That’s it. A year. It’s ‘silly’ I think to expect generational play from a squad that plays largely with lads that would struggle to find their way in any top 10 team in this league right now. I still like some things I see and I’m fairly certain we will try to eliminate some of the dross we have accumulated over the years.
Our top 4-5 earners are ridiculously bad at this game and it’s gonna take some effort to displace the likes of Case, Ericksen, Shaw, Marcus, Antony.
In retrospect, the transfers of Hojlund, Amad, Maz, Yoro are still positives but realistically speaking they should be coming into a core of good players. Instead they are joining a circus. They are young (not Maz) and have a high ceiling.
I am assuming that Ruben has received some reassurances that he will get at least 1 year and flexibility in the transfer market.
Our top 4-5 earners are ridiculously bad at this game and it’s gonna take some effort to displace the likes of Case, Ericksen, Shaw, Marcus, Antony.
In retrospect, the transfers of Hojlund, Amad, Maz, Yoro are still positives but realistically speaking they should be coming into a core of good players. Instead they are joining a circus. They are young (not Maz) and have a high ceiling.
I am assuming that Ruben has received some reassurances that he will get at least 1 year and flexibility in the transfer market.
It's been just over a month. Would you not say that it's a bit unreasonable to be calling for his sacking already?
That's the spirit !
No it doesn’t. Ten Hag built a team to play on the transition. It wasn’t good enough to get us top four but slightly better than Brighton and Fulham.
It’s certainly not good enough to play the type of football Amorim plays which is more possession based. Fulham and Brighton play similar styles and have been for years, hence being better at it than our players at the moment.
You seem to accept the squad is shit so I’m not sure of your point.
Atleast giving him a year is pretty reasonable considering we appointed a young manager with a different play style altogether that we have never played.
If we just wanted a short term fix to give us bounce and immediate results then he was not a good appointment anyway. We should have gone to someone else.
Its long term vs short term. If start of next season is still same or bad then we should sack him but too put so much pressure so soon is crazy.
If we just wanted a short term fix to give us bounce and immediate results then he was not a good appointment anyway. We should have gone to someone else.
Its long term vs short term. If start of next season is still same or bad then we should sack him but too put so much pressure so soon is crazy.
Actually that's a valid point.
Villas-Boas signed a deal to become the new manager of Porto on 2 June 2010. Two months later, he won his first trophy as a manager when Porto defeated Benfica 2–0 to win the Portuguese Supercup.Villas-Boas went on to immense success with Porto, leading the team to an undefeated season in the Primeira Liga—only the second time this had ever been achieved—and winning the title by more than 20 points, having conceded only 13 goals all season. Villas-Boas went on to follow up this success by leading Porto to win both the Portuguese Cup and the UEFA Europa League, thus completing a treble in his first season in charge. By doing so, Villas-Boas became the third-youngest coach ever to win the Primeira Liga (behind Mihály Siska in 1939 and Juca in 1962) and the youngest manager ever to win a European competition, at the age of 33 years and 213 days. On 21 June 2011, Villas-Boas tendered his resignation as Porto manager.
Joined Chelsea sacked the same year.
Having five or more losses in January should be unacceptable, regardless of the length of his tenure.
I think that was stupid of him.
How are you going to pump your team up and motivate them when they just heard you say that relegation is a possibility ? That isn't a motivational speech it's depressing.
It's like saying to the guys in the trenches, you might get killed when you go over the top, to try and get them to jump up and be motivated to stay alive. Poor from Amorin if you ask me.
I have absolutely zero confidence we’ll beat Southampton, but if we do and lose to Liverpool it’s 10 games for Amorim, with 10 points.
If we keep up playing 5 defenders I have a real feeling that might be 7 point from 10 and us looking in big trouble.
Not only is your post very interesting and thought provoking, I fully support your tagline below your name.
This is the squad he has. The team was strong enough to finish above Brighton and Fulham twice under ETH. They have won trophies in consecutive seasons, so while they may not be the best in the world, they are certainly better than Brighton and Fulham.
I have no idea if he’s going to be successful or not. But as a coach, he has a philosophy - one that he believes in, and one that he has achieved success with.
It’s unreasonable to expect him to suddenly invent something new that he hasn’t previously implemented.
What’s also clear is our squad is either not capable of playing his way, or needs time to adapt to play his way.
People are quick to treat the real world like FIFA. Change this, change that, and everyone immediately adapts and plays well. People forget that a lot of what happens on a football pitch is instinct and muscle memory, making quick decisions without confusion.
It’s therefore unreasonable to expect the players to suddenly change the fundamental style of play without serious time to create that muscle memory. It’s unreasonable to expect Amorim to suddenly change.
We won’t know if it works until we give it time. That’s the reality. How bad it can get, I don’t know.
But then that comes back not to the manager or the players, but the club overall. For too long we’ve had no strategy. No philosophy. We pick a manager and then try and create a squad in their mould. Instead of first coming up with an identity and finding a manager and players who fit that ideal. I thought we were learning with all the changes to our football operations. But I fear we aren’t. And that’s going to be a huge problem.
If we want to build a team which fits how Amorim plays - whether Amorim remains as coach or not - then we have to stick it out. Is that the plan? I have no idea. But I also am losing faith that’s the plan.
If we are building a squad just for Amorim and if he fails we will find a manager with a completely different philosophy and then try and build a squad to them, then we’ve learnt nothing and we will continue in this horrible cycle we’ve found ourselves in.
It’s unreasonable to expect him to suddenly invent something new that he hasn’t previously implemented.
What’s also clear is our squad is either not capable of playing his way, or needs time to adapt to play his way.
People are quick to treat the real world like FIFA. Change this, change that, and everyone immediately adapts and plays well. People forget that a lot of what happens on a football pitch is instinct and muscle memory, making quick decisions without confusion.
It’s therefore unreasonable to expect the players to suddenly change the fundamental style of play without serious time to create that muscle memory. It’s unreasonable to expect Amorim to suddenly change.
We won’t know if it works until we give it time. That’s the reality. How bad it can get, I don’t know.
But then that comes back not to the manager or the players, but the club overall. For too long we’ve had no strategy. No philosophy. We pick a manager and then try and create a squad in their mould. Instead of first coming up with an identity and finding a manager and players who fit that ideal. I thought we were learning with all the changes to our football operations. But I fear we aren’t. And that’s going to be a huge problem.
If we want to build a team which fits how Amorim plays - whether Amorim remains as coach or not - then we have to stick it out. Is that the plan? I have no idea. But I also am losing faith that’s the plan.
If we are building a squad just for Amorim and if he fails we will find a manager with a completely different philosophy and then try and build a squad to them, then we’ve learnt nothing and we will continue in this horrible cycle we’ve found ourselves in.
Yes, that much I agree with. Too early to definitively conclude either way IMO, given the circumstances at the club.
Amorim must be waking up every morning thinking, "What fresh hell awaits me today?" The poor lad probably thought he was signing up for a dream job at a prestigious club with an adoring fanbase. Instead, he walked into a pressure cooker full of unrealistic expectations (yep, that’s us), a squad that's more overpaid than overachieving, a stadium that’s falling apart, and owners who suddenly found religion in extreme budgeting. Welcome to the big leagues, buddy!
And to top it off, he’s trying to stick to his guns with a tactical style that’s about as effective with this squad as a fork is for eating soup. Oh, and let’s not forget the cherry on this disaster cake: his boss got sacked before he even had a chance to properly say hello to him!
Honestly, if he manages to steer this shipwreck back on course, forget sainthood—we should name the stadium after him, leaks and all.
And to top it off, he’s trying to stick to his guns with a tactical style that’s about as effective with this squad as a fork is for eating soup. Oh, and let’s not forget the cherry on this disaster cake: his boss got sacked before he even had a chance to properly say hello to him!
Honestly, if he manages to steer this shipwreck back on course, forget sainthood—we should name the stadium after him, leaks and all.
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