Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Judas]

Some on here have a relegation fetish I swear. There’s a weird glee and excitement talking about it.

 

[SparcMac]

Other teams with new managers comfortably beat us, obviously it’s because of a new manager. They got the bounce. We play terribly, worse than before, obviously it’s because of a new manager. He needs time.

Usually when teams change managers don't get a major overhaul of the whole squad to build it to fit their football system & formation. We are doing this under Amorim. It's a unique and risky way.

 

[Stig]

Other teams with new managers comfortably beat us, obviously it’s because of a new manager. They got the bounce. We play terribly, worse than before, obviously it’s because of a new manager. He needs time.

I agree that he needs time, but when he makes utterly ridiculous decisions, that he then has to correct when we are 0-2 down and have played the worse 30 minutes of football I can remember watching United play, he doesn't buy himself any credit. He makes himself look a little incompetent.

 

[gaffs]

I’m with you on this. How do we benefit playing the rest of the season , a system that doesn’t suit the squad ? How is this good long term if we end up in a relegation battle and out of all cups? How does that help long term ?

If I thought by maybe March we’d be getting wins and looking like a top half team (this squad is a top half squad) , I’d be ok with that. But I don’t see the benefit of just entirely giving up this season to force square pegs in round holes.

I think Amorim has potential to be a top coach but that doesn’t mean sticking to a system is the right call. i feel like some are convincing themselves that this squad is as bad as it’s looking and that committing to a failing system is like Amorim being a victim of circumstances.

Coaches have to adapt and get the most out of what they have, Amorim isn’t getting the most out of this team. Other clubs get a manager bounce, we’ve had the exact opposite.

People can talk about him speaking well publicly, but that means nothing. Manager interviews are soundbites , I don’t know why fans get so animated about what they say or how they sound.

It really is simple. The team is going to have to start picking up points soon. As I’ve said, I think if we don’t beat Southampton there is gonna be serious panic. The question may end up becoming how bad can things get before either the manager gets more pragmatic or his position is under threat.

This is ridiculous state for things to be looking this bleak. Even under ETH relegation was not a realistic prospect. The complaint was always he could grind out a few wins, well im not sure we can grind out too many wins on this form.

I just don’t accept the squad is this bad or that we can’t have some sort of pragmatism from the coach, especially if he’s not getting enough time with the squad to work on his tactics. If injuries are a problem , adapt. If confidence is an issue , adapt. if you don’t have the layers you want for what you want to do, adapt. A manager sticking to their guns when a teams in a tailspin doesn’t often end too well.

Amorim was employed not for his good looks, not for his charm and not for his skill in pressers - though this all helps. He was employed because he has proven he has a winning system and showed at Sporting he can build multiple teams, despite having many of his best players poached by bigger clubs every window. Just look at all the players that left Sporting to move to the Prem. His players would run through a brick wall for him. These United players done have that mentality right now. They have cruised under previous managers.

It has been established that these players are not upto much right now. I think Ten Hag gave up on coaching them - either that or the message didn't sink in. He said in the early days they were unfit, but did you ever see them get fitter? He let them play ad hoc football because finishing 8th was better than the pain of moulding them to his system. He accepted that players like Rashford and Bruno were needed in every starting 11 because they had the ability to pop up with moments, despite them not being conducive to being members of a modern, progressing, ball retaining football side.

The pressure got to him and Ten Hag didn't have the diamond hands needed to hold the line.

If you disagree here, then please tell me what the Ten Hag "system" was. Show me the repeatable patterns of play that helped create chances for us. I will tell you now, there were non, which explains the 57 PL goals last season and the 58 the year before.

This squad is overpaid and underperforming. There isn't any players you could really hang your hat on and say, yeah, i want to build around him. And that goes for any formation or system.

With that in mind, now Amorim is here, why should he compromise? Because we all know he has a bang average squad who will never challenge for a title. He needs to persist in the hope that a few of these players get the message and start performing. He will know then who to rely on and who to dump.
If he goes to a 433, then a 3421 next season, what will have have learned in the 6 months of this season? The hope is that maybe he find a player or two he can build around.

Compromise now and you show this weak willed lot that their lackluster performance will lead to the manager changing his system to accommodate their mediocrity. Just like Ten Hag did. The balance of power then shift back to the players.

We are MUFC. The point is to challenge for top honors. Keep doing the same thing as the past 10 years and we will continue to pay top wages for getting in the Europa league - part reason why our finances are fecked. I would much rather have a season or so of turmoil with the chance of building back stronger. 17th or 8th in the league - what difference does it make if you are not challenging for a league title?

 

[Munich_1958]

Here me out. I think people are going about this relegation thing like it's as simple as bouncing back in a year.

I think it's just as likely we do a Sunderland and go down again. The Championship is the hardest league in the world, all our finances will get iffy and will have to get rid of players.

You have to agree though there is something poetically beautiful that we all assumed City would get relegated through the charges and yet we are looking at relegation ourselves and City will probably get off. Not the Manchester club we imagined could be in the Championship!!

5 or 6 wins from 17 matches avoids relegation, am sure we can manage that, we are on a terrible trajectory but we need to win some matches, dirty if needs be!

regardless what the media says we need to make a move in Janaury, after Liverpool pending defeat we are staring down the barrell and something has to materialise and avoid that unthinkable situation

 

[honirelandboy]

What was wrong with a Ugarte, Mainoo, Eriksen midfield yesterday? He is starting to fustrate me with this 3-4-3 formation. Might work in Portugal, won't work in England. He is in to get the best out of the current players that are at united and it's simply not working. He will be gone by end of February is my prediction.

 

[Cambion]

What was wrong with a Ugarte, Mainoo, Eriksen midfield yesterday? He is starting to fustrate me with this 3-4-3 formation. Might work in Portugal, won't work in England. He is in to get the best out of the current players that are at united and it's simply not working. He will be gone by end of February is my prediction.

Ugarte was suspended.

 

[erikcred]

I agree that he needs time, but when he makes utterly ridiculous decisions, that he then has to correct when we are 0-2 down and have played the worse 30 minutes of football I can remember watching United play, he doesn't buy himself any credit. He makes himself look a little incompetent.

I don’t think he expected to be out of the game in 20 mins. Looks a bit shocked by the quality in the PL all the way down the table.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Because we never do those kinds of clear outs. The vast majority of players are staying to at least 2026, perhaps beyond. Bruno, Mount, Mazaroui, De Ligt, Ugarte, Mainoo, Maguire (he will get renewed), Martinez, Yoro, Hojlund, Amad, Dalot, Onana, Casemiro (probably), Antony and Shaw are all as good as certain to stay beyond the summer unless someone comes in with a significant bid.

Rashford might leave if he is willing to go to Saudi, but if he isn't I kind of doubt he has any suitors willing to match his wages.

About clear out

I hold on to the belief
in professional football. Elite football. If you're not Messi or CR7 or R9 or Dinho then the quality of all other footballers is in the same range. The range of talent and quality is not that big in all other players.

This is reinforced by the notion, last time you saw a player dribble past 6 players and score? Messi Probably.

All goals scored is either header, cut back, cross, 18 yard shot nothing extraordinary.

So as talent may differ in some small way, HOW TO MANAGE the team knowing it's strength weakness is THE MOST important thing.

This is also reinforced by us. We have a very expensive squad, talented players but Ipswich will draw against us. Coventry will take us to the wire.

Madrid had a Galacticos team but won nothing. Not that, the team had no talent. It's how you use the team matters most.

In as much as we have a "poor squad" we're very very held back by poor and bad player management.

Ferguson used to win trophies and big game with Oshea, Fletcher, Silvestre,

Klopp was doing it with Milner, Henderson, Firmino. Bring them now to United, supporters will strike for 2 months daily.

 

[sunama]

We won’t get relegated just because there are three other horrendous teams in the league.

Funnily enough, I was taking a close look at the bottom of the table.
And while we seem to be losing and drawing every game right now, the 3 teams in the relegation zone are struggling to even draw a game.
We are currently 7 points above the relegation zone and before you say "7 points isn't much" - for a bottom team to score that many points, might take them 2 months!
I don't bet, but if I did, I would put my house on us not getting relegated.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

I agree that he needs time, but when he makes utterly ridiculous decisions, that he then has to correct when we are 0-2 down and have played the worse 30 minutes of football I can remember watching United play, he doesn't buy himself any credit. He makes himself look a little incompetent.

He saw the end of the Wolves game with Casemiro and Eriksen (where Mainoo was poor) and thought they could offer some control on the ball, they didn’t and the team were overwhelmed and reverted to bad habits in not committing to the press. Personnel decisions are a clear area of improvement for Amorim but at the same time our personnel are massively inconsistent from game to game it’s tough to nail it down and easy to pick it apart in hindsight.

 

[erikcred]

About clear out

I hold on to the belief
in professional football. Elite football. If you're not Messi or CR7 or R9 or Dinho then the quality of all other footballers is in the same range. The range of talent and quality is not that big in all other players.

This is reinforced by the notion, last time you saw a player dribble past 6 players and score? Messi Probably.

All goals scored is either header, cut back, cross, 18 yard shot nothing extraordinary.

So as talent may differ in some small way, HOW TO MANAGE the team knowing it's strength weakness is THE MOST important thing.

This is also reinforced by us. We have a very expensive squad, talented players but Ipswich will draw against us. Coventry will take us to the wire.

Madrid had a Galacticos team but won nothing. Not that, the team had no talent. It's how you use the team matters most.

In as much as we have a "poor squad" we're very very held back by poor and bad player management.

Ferguson used to win trophies and big game with Oshea, Fletcher, Silvestre,

Klopp was doing it with Milner, Henderson, Firmino. Bring them now to United, supporters will strike for 2 months daily.

Dreading the answer to that question next week.

 

[Crackers]

Dreading the answer to that question next week.

Watch it through your fingers, it won't be pretty.

 

[Fts 74]

He's having a rough time of it at the moment but I really hope he sticks to his principles unlike previous managers who abandoned any sort of progress at the first signs of trouble despite having the money to spend on the players they actually wanted.

That first 30 minutes yesterday was horrific, you cannot dress it up any other way, but he made a change and it helped, something he was honest about afterwards. No doubt he's probably shocked at the mess he's inherited and with little money available unless we can drum up some sales, hopefully as the fixture list eases, he can actually spend sometime on the training ground getting his ideas across.

We absolutely have to back him otherwise what was the point of bringing him in, give him a proper chance and ignore the usual media pile on, he's not going to change, he'd rather die on his sword playing his way and I for one admire him for that.

 

[Crackers]

He's having a rough time of it at the moment but I really hope he sticks to his principles unlike previous managers who abandoned any sort of progress at the first signs of trouble despite having the money to spend on the players they actually wanted.

That first 30 minutes yesterday was horrific, you cannot dress it up any other way, but he made a change and it helped, something he was honest about afterwards. No doubt he's probably shocked at the mess he's inherited and with little money available unless we can drum up some sales, hopefully as the fixture list eases, he can actually spend sometime on the training ground getting his ideas across.

We absolutely have to back him otherwise what was the point of bringing him in, give him a proper chance and ignore the usual media pile on, he's not going to change, he'd rather die on his sword playing his way and I for one admire him for that.

He needs to find a way to coach out our slow starts, they're killing us. We take ages to get into a good rhythm and it costs us all the time.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Yes - and we have done the very same thing many times in the post-SAF era, against better teams (last obvious example being the FA Cup final).

The question is whether we should abandon this approach altogether - and just focus on becoming the team others need to beat (by pulling a successful underdog tactic of some kind or another).

Or - should Amorim do what pretty much everyone (except maybe LVG) have done...namely to ditch the actual (preferred) tactic in favour of a more pragmatic one every so often...more and more often...until it becomes the default?

Simplistic - yes, I know.

But if you ask me, we should absolutely suffer whatever hits it takes to make us a well-drilled team.

Well, as long as the guy doing the drilling knows what he's doing (of course). But I must say that I like Amorim - I don't fully trust him, but I like him. Not least because he's said pretty much explicitly that it's going to be painful - that we're going to struggle to a considerable degree before things take a turn for the better.

Even if those hits include watching Zirkzee stink out the joint? Because it's not some hypothetical: Amorim did select him and did set the team up with Zirkzee as the linchpin. The tactics are Zirkzee writ large. We are asked to buy in wholesale with no thought for tweaks or adjustments based on either personnel or opponent, which makes no sense.

 

[Fts 74]

He needs to find a way to coach out our slow starts, they're killing us. We take ages to get into a good rhythm and it costs us all the time.

Your right, it's something we seen with EtH, it seems to be a recurring theme regardless of who is on the pitch it's a big problem.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Looking at the Ole team against Watford and the only one I wish we had available right now is Shaw, which is kind of ironic.

I'd take that version of Matic over any of our current midfield options. I'd also take De Gea back.

 

[erikcred]

He needs to find a way to coach out our slow starts, they're killing us. We take ages to get into a good rhythm and it costs us all the time.

Maybe start with 11 players?

 

[Castia]

About clear out

I hold on to the belief
in professional football. Elite football. If you're not Messi or CR7 or R9 or Dinho then the quality of all other footballers is in the same range. The range of talent and quality is not that big in all other players.

This is reinforced by the notion, last time you saw a player dribble past 6 players and score? Messi Probably.

All goals scored is either header, cut back, cross, 18 yard shot nothing extraordinary.

So as talent may differ in some small way, HOW TO MANAGE the team knowing it's strength weakness is THE MOST important thing.

This is also reinforced by us. We have a very expensive squad, talented players but Ipswich will draw against us. Coventry will take us to the wire.

Madrid had a Galacticos team but won nothing. Not that, the team had no talent. It's how you use the team matters most.

In as much as we have a "poor squad" we're very very held back by poor and bad player management.

Ferguson used to win trophies and big game with Oshea, Fletcher, Silvestre,

Klopp was doing it with Milner, Henderson, Firmino. Bring them now to United, supporters will strike for 2 months daily.

Good points in which I agree with mostly but Klopp didn’t exactly set the league on fire when he came to Liverpool. 8th, 4th, 4th we’re his first 3 years

Look we appointed a manager who has openly stated that he asked to join in the summer because he knows how tough it is to come in and change everything especially in the winter months he’s just played 11 games in about 34 days, I bet he’s had a handful of training sessions at best.

For too long this squad has been protected and sugarcoated for delivering nothing but failure, they aren’t going to be happy when the guy coming in wants to change the entire stinking culture that’s grown since SAF left.

Two steps back for what we hope will be a much brighter future is what we have to deal with

 

[Eplel]

Amorim proved himself before coming to united. The players that are putting a half assed effort into being footballers have been failing for many years in a row. If he manages to get rid of Rashford, give him the keys.

 

[Posh Red]

A few days ago I was saying "He's been here less than a month, what can you expect ? It's not going to happen overnight. Be patient."

However yesterday when I sat down to watch my initial thought was How on earth has he picked Casemiro and Erickson." 70,000 at Old Trafford, millions around the world and I knew that was not going to work.

Then the commentator tells us that the team hasn't scored playing the wingback pairing of Dalot and Mazraoui; so that seems like an odd decision.

He has to start helping himself and not making selections that any United supporter in the world can see are incorrect. Don't tell me that - You don't see them in training, you don't know their fitness or their attitude etc... Some decisions are obvious as shown by us being much better but still overall terrible when Mainoo came on.

Those same supporters have been laying into Mainoo all season. There were not many options at all for the manager yesterday, although you can argue he made a mistake in his lineup. These things can happen, especially when you have several players unavailable for selection.

 

[United Hobbit]

I don't want him to get sacked, one possible silver lining in this is the players are instantly showing themselves up for who they really are, usually they put in some token effort leading a new manager to give them a stay of execution

If only we could sack players, there's so many in this current squad I'd get rid of ahead of the manager

Why did we keep ETH in the summer, and not only keep him but heavily backed him in wasting yet more money (Maz maybe an exception to this). Should have sacked him after the FA cup, I said before it we could win 10-0 and I'd still sack him.

Ineos have handled the whole thing extremely poorly, RA needs to adapt, fast, but he's been throw into an absolute shit storm. SJR is looking at reducing the wrong departments, how about looking at the scouting department? Why are we signing mediocrity, lazy, or past it players. Where are these hidden gems. The not exciting but come in and do a great job such as the Jotas and Mcalisters of this world. Also wasting money on permanent sick notes who could actually work well in RA system but oh guess what we won't find that out as they last half a game before being injured again

The scouting department needs a MAJOR review yet we seem to be getting stories about all other departments bar this.

One can only hope for a Chelsea type strategy where they somehow got their surplus players punted out to Saudi. We have wasted so much money it's unbelievable, imagine if we hadn't signed Antony and Zirkzee and Mount....

We simply must get a striker who can actually put the ball in the back of the net in January, even if just a loan that would possibly at least go a semblance of the way to solving the immediate problems

It is disgusting what a team of individuals on way too high wages we have assembled

I can only hope this isn't allowing them anywhere to hide whereas usually with a new manager they buy themselves a stay of execution before reverting to type

 

[JoseM4]

Some on here have a relegation fetish I swear. There’s a weird glee and excitement talking about it.

I’m as frustrated anyone here but:

1. There’s zero chance we will be relegated as a few teams in the league are significantly weaker than us.

2. We will begin to show improvement once Amorim has more time on the training pitch with the players.

 

[RDCR07]

Those same supporters have been laying into Mainoo all season. There were not many options at all for the manager yesterday, although you can argue he made a mistake in his lineup. These things can happen, especially when you have several players unavailable for selection.

This! He hasnt done well recently especially Bournemouth and Wolves so performance or fatigue could have come into play with his decision to not start him.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Depends what comes post relegation.

But going back to Ole would be ridiculous. There is a reason he is still unemployed three years later.

Those were the options presented by someone else that I was using. I would prefer to do basically any managerial or player shift to avoid relegation.

 

[Posh Red]

This! He hasnt done well recently especially Bournemouth and Wolves so performance or fatigue could have come into play with his decision to not start him.

Agreed. With that said, I thought he was good yesterday, which is encouraging.

 

[RDCR07]

Agreed. With that said, I thought he was good yesterday, which is encouraging.

Yes and given the performance he had last night, he will start alongside Ugarte at Pool. Lets hope its not a drubbing.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Nobody in their right mind picks relegation. The alternative simply isn't 433 with Ole, either.

The guy I asked that of chose relegation, which was why I asked. I think we are playing with fire. I've seen a lot of big clubs go down and stay down.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Do you genuinely think changing the formation will change this? If so, I have some magic beans to sell you.

Let me take a look at those beans, please.

Yes, ditching a back 3 and not playing fullbacks as wingbacks would help. Picking a central spine comprised of Case, Eriksen, and Zirkzee - call that what you like, but it was a mistake.

 

[Buster15]

Some on here have a relegation fetish I swear. There’s a weird glee and excitement talking about it.

That excitement would soon fade to reality were that to become more likely.

 

[elmo]

I don't want him to get sacked, one possible silver lining in this is the players are instantly showing themselves up for who they really are, usually they put in some token effort leading a new manager to give them a stay of execution

If only we could sack players, there's so many in this current squad I'd get rid of ahead of the manager

Why did we keep ETH in the summer, and not only keep him but heavily backed him in wasting yet more money (Maz maybe an exception to this). Should have sacked him after the FA cup, I said before it we could win 10-0 and I'd still sack him.

Ineos have handled the whole thing extremely poorly, RA needs to adapt, fast, but he's been throw into an absolute shit storm. SJR is looking at reducing the wrong departments, how about looking at the scouting department? Why are we signing mediocrity, lazy, or past it players. Where are these hidden gems. The not exciting but come in and do a great job such as the Jotas and Mcalisters of this world. Also wasting money on permanent sick notes who could actually work well in RA system but oh guess what we won't find that out as they last half a game before being injured again

The scouting department needs a MAJOR review yet we seem to be getting stories about all other departments bar this.

One can only hope for a Chelsea type strategy where they somehow got their surplus players punted out to Saudi. We have wasted so much money it's unbelievable, imagine if we hadn't signed Antony and Zirkzee and Mount....

We simply must get a striker who can actually put the ball in the back of the net in January, even if just a loan that would possibly at least go a semblance of the way to solving the immediate problems

It is disgusting what a team of individuals on way too high wages we have assembled

I can only hope this isn't allowing them anywhere to hide whereas usually with a new manager they buy themselves a stay of execution before reverting to type

I thought it was reported that the scouting issues is because nobody was actually following up on who the scouts recommended because the feckwits in charge of getting players in just pandered to who the manager wanted.

 

[SuperMicky]

Pick any current manager, select your preferred system, now you need to fashion a team that can live with Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/City(i know they're struggling currently)the cream of Europe, your senior players are Casemiro, Rashford, Maguire, Martinez, Erikson, Dalot, Antony, Shaw, Bruno, Mount, throw in the EPL inexperience of Mainoo, Rasmus, Yoro, Onana, Zirkzee. You're struggling aren't you? So is Amorim, sadly only money and time will fix this. The guy ain't a miracle worker.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Time to admit we made a mistake and sack him and go back to 4-3-3 with Ole till the end of the season?

4-2-3-1

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

If we’re within 3 points of relegation by March, Ole as an interim is a very distinct possibility but I doubt it will get that bad.

I remember people saying relegation would shake the ticks Glazers off our back, so getting relegated would be a good thing. One thing that has happened, though, is the glory-hunters are no longer with us.

 

[Posh Red]

Let me take a look at those beans, please.

Yes, ditching a back 3 and not playing fullbacks as wingbacks would help. Picking a central spine comprised of Case, Eriksen, and Zirkzee - call that what you like, but it was a mistake.

So is it formation, or team selection?

And on last nights team selection, what other options did the manager have for the midfield? Mainoo, who had taken heavy criticism for his form so far this season?

Things are bad at the moment. The relentless negativity and whinging from the online fans at the moment is absurd. A total lack of patience or understanding. Take a breath and try not to lose all perspective of where we are and what’s required.

 

[Zumbi]

At least others have started to see through this narrative that because Amorim has some formation, down the line we will be champions if we buy what he wants.

Another poster asked a very good question...


"If these players ( probably all of them) won't be here next season ( they don't fit Amorim style) why try to teach them something new yet they won't be here in 12 months to continue with the plan"

Seems like wasting time, effort and with zero rewards.

I haven’t seen a single person present a narrative that Amorim’s system will inevitably lead to a title if we buy what he wants. Are you sure you haven't made that up in your own head?

What I have seen people say is that the club decided to bring him in knowing full well what his preferred system is, and that it therefore makes sense to allow him to try and implement that system, even if it means some short term pain. That’s quite a bit different to the strawman you are trying to present.

What’s the point in bringing any new manager in if they are not allowed to try and teach the squad something new? That’s the obvious way of identifying who is and is not suitable for it, whilst also making building some tactical foundations with the few members who may be good enough to stick around and make it work.

 

[gaffs]

Those were the options presented by someone else that I was using. I would prefer to do basically any managerial or player shift to avoid relegation.

We have the right manager now. Hold the line. Dont let your knees get weak and start thinking the manager needs to change to accommodate the mediocre players.

That is exactly what Ten Hag did and where did that get him? Some good moments and but he netted out making no real progress in the competitions we covert.

We are starting to see what Dr Ralf Rangnick prescribed. Open Heart Surgery. It may be painful, but without that we are going to continue to be mediocre.

 

[Buster15]

Let me take a look at those beans, please.

Yes, ditching a back 3 and not playing fullbacks as wingbacks would help. Picking a central spine comprised of Case, Eriksen, and Zirkzee - call that what you like, but it was a mistake.

It certainly was. If he is as good as we hope, he will show a degree of pragmatism and make us difficult to beat. Quite unlike now.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Usually when teams change managers don't get a major overhaul of the whole squad to build it to fit their football system & formation. We are doing this under Amorim. It's a unique and risky way.

It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them.