Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[NinjaZombie]

In a way, he's torched the players like Rangnick did. He's not gone the route of coddling to them and telling the media "these are a bunch of good players" etc etc. He's alluded to a "storm coming" even when we won game, essentially saying, "you think these players are good enough? I don't, you'll see what I mean."

I think what's that done here is the players are doing the same thing the players that were around during Rangnick's time did, throwing the towel.

This is the start of the open heart surgery we need.

 

[erikcred]

I think the posters looking for Amorim to scrap his entire footballing philosophy are correct.

Those people are outrageous and you are rightly calling them out! Can you point out one of these posts so that I can also chip in?

Oh how I long for the Halcyon Days of Erik Ten Hag's impenetrable back 4 that was able to eke out such magnificent results as Liverpool (0-7, 0-3), Crystal Palace (0-4), Brentford (0-4), Bournemouth (0-3) (last season!), Spurs (0-3), City (3-6), Sevilla (0-3) and probably several others that I've scorched from my memory.

ETH being shit doesn't imply that Amorim is a great manager who's perfect and all of his failures are because of the players alone.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

The pessimist in me says we're going to sign a few players to fit his system but not the overhaul we need, results won't pick up and he'll be sacked. Then we'll be left with a Frankenstein squad of half Hag half Amorim good for nothings that some other sucker will be brought in to deal with.

I hope we make some serious moves in the January window, we have to really. The confidence of the team must be in the gutter and they're not going to buy into the system if this keeps up.

 

[bgoodall]

I’m not sure who is at fault the most. The players who obviously don’t understand how to play in this system and can’t do the bare minimum all of a sudden for some reason. The coach who obviously isn’t improving anyone here and keeps picking the same players that we know can’t play in this system or any system for that matter. INEoS for their incompetence in sticking with Ten Hag too long then changing managers and systems halfway thru the year.

 

[Hester_manc]

The pessimist in me says we're going to sign a few players to fit his system but not the overhaul we need, results won't pick up and he'll be sacked. Then we'll be left with a Frankenstein squad of half Hag half Amorim good for nothings that some other sucker will be brought in to deal with.

I hope we make some serious moves in the January window, we have to really. The confidence of the team must be in the gutter and they're not going to buy into the system if this keeps up.

Amorim said that there is no money to spend in January. We have to sell before we can buy.

 

[erikcred]

They didn't adjust, they started implementing their systems immediately. It took while for both them to get going. Both had the benefit of a more suitable squad of players that fit their system.

Amorim has taken over a shit show.

True.

Pep took over a league winning team and Klopp took over a team that took the league title down to the last match.

By this logic, Amorim took over the '99 treble winners.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

Amorim said that there is no money to spend in January. We have to sell before we can buy.

I'm assuming (hoping) Rashford will go at least. I don't know who else we'd actually get money for, most of our Hag signings will have to go for a loss.

 

[Lentwood]

The timing of his appointment was absolutely horrific. How is he supposed to implement a new system in a month in which we have a game every three days?

Fixture run was pretty awful too...Forest (3rd), Bournemouth (6th), City at the Etihad, Arsenal at the Emirates, Newcastle (5th).

We beat Everton 4-0, draw away at Ipswich and lost to Wolves thanks to Bruno's stupidity.

I remain confident that, with a couple of weeks on the training ground, and a kinder run of fixtures, we will steady the ship and start to make progress ready for next season.

 

[zenith]

This game loss was on the coach. Starting casemiro and eriksen is criminal negligence for any football fan with casual knowledge of the sport. The game was lost at that point

 

[redNATION]

You’re judging a manager who has been at a place for 45 days versus Nuno who has been at Forest for more than 12 months and Iraiola who has been at Bournemouth for 18 months? And not to mention preseasons to go along with that time. Does that make sense?

You've picked two managers that literally contradict the point you're trying to make. It took 10 games for Iraola to win a game at Bournemouth, despite a full pre-season. Nuno finished 17th despite being in charge for five months.

I expect Notts Forrest and Bournemouth to be in the relegation zone, it actually makes my point. As a squad we have considerably more talent in the squad than either of these two so logically we should be able to get up to speed quicker than either of those teams (unless you’re saying that none of our squad would get into NF or Bournemouths teams?)

How is it that Amorim thought putting Casemiro and Erikson in midfield against the physically strongest team in the league was a good idea? There are obvious things he could do to try to progress things like not making mistakes like that. Likewise Dalot and Mazraoui as WBs is not working, even the stats show it, so why is he persisting with it? That has nothing to do with preseason or time.

Reality is that SJR has already shown with Ashworth he’s not patient, Amorim doesn’t have much time and he’s not a particularly long contract which I think was by design when he was appointed.

 

[erikcred]

The timing of his appointment was absolutely horrific. How is he supposed to implement a new system in a month in which we have a game every three days?

Fixture run was pretty awful too...Forest (3rd), Bournemouth (6th), City at the Etihad, Arsenal at the Emirates, Newcastle (5th).

We beat Everton 4-0, draw away at Ipswich and lost to Wolves thanks to Bruno's stupidity.

I remain confident that, with a couple of weeks on the training ground, and a kinder run of fixtures, we will steady the ship and start to make progress ready for next season.

Forest, Bournemouth and Newcastle got to 3rd, 6th and 5th by beating us.

You can't then just use that position in the table as a reason for them to be obvious favourites against us, and that too, at home!

 

[Hmzone]

I honestly can't believe what I am reading.

We called for a complete dismantling of the squad and the mess that EtH left.

Amorim told us, it was not possible to do this without pain, especially during the busiest part of a season. No time on the training pitch and a match every three days.

Its on record that he asked to start at the end of the season for these reasons. I heard an interview yesterday, he's had 5 full training sessions and 3 with the entire squad.

Already people have lost the stomach for it. I thought it might take at least a few months but it's only been 5-weeks!

Whether we finished 6th or 17th is irrelevant. Ignore the results from now until the end of the season if it upsets you.

the issue for me is how close 17th is to 18th. Leicester and Ipswich might win a few in a row and suddenly we’re 1-2 points of relegation without any momentum. It can happen. And once this team is relegated it’s basically game over.
That’s way I’m with those who want to steady the ship for a while. Play to the players’ strength until we’re out in the clear.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Forest, Bournemouth and Newcastle got to 3rd, 6th and 5th by beating us.

You can't then just use that position in the table as a reason for them to be obvious favourites against us, and that too, at home!

Don’t think Bournemouth or Forest were obvious favourites against us, Newcastle clearly were.

Problem is we still have games every 3/4 days between now and February the 2nd, outside of a week between Liverpool and Arsenal, so I don’t see how the rotation ends, I do think he needs to look to moving Maz back to RCB and forming a stable back three rather than changing it every week.

He also needs to somehow find a way to fix the left side of the pitch, we actually had some minor success when Dalot tried to go by Trippier/Livramento and putting some balls in, which is a huge problem as he gets into a lot of 1vs1 and usually just passes it sideways.

Not sure what’s happened with Martinez, but it’s clear he has to go, doesn’t show the same awareness defensively to make up for his passing currently seems to of regressed since his injuries which is such a shame.

 

[Jev]

Whether we finished 6th or 17th is irrelevant.

That is a wild sentence. I want a boss like you.

 

[Longshanks]

There is only three things this team can't do, attack, defend and keep possession. Other than that we are peachy.

I sympathise with amorin to a certain extent, come in mid season probably the worst united squad for a long long time a squad not at all suited to his formation/style.

But still we have to be better he picked that midfield tonight, he chooses to keep playing genuine defenders at wing back, he choose to drop Rashford and garnacho two of our best most creative and biggest goal threats. Those decisions are backfiring on him at the moment.

Anfield is a write off, but we can't get smashed. Otherwise he could be in big big trouble. Outside of the whole there is gonna be pain statement etc etc there is a minimum expectation even for a new manager coming mid season, and right now he isn't hitting it.

 

[Unam333]

I honestly can't believe what I am reading.

We called for a complete dismantling of the squad and the mess that EtH left.

Amorim told us, it was not possible to do this without pain, especially during the busiest part of a season. No time on the training pitch and a match every three days.

Its on record that he asked to start at the end of the season for these reasons. I heard an interview yesterday, he's had 5 full training sessions and 3 with the entire squad.

Already people have lost the stomach for it. I thought it might take at least a few months but it's only been 5-weeks!

Whether we finished 6th or 17th is irrelevant. Ignore the results from now until the end of the season if it upsets you.

Ignoring the possibility of ending the season in 18th-19th place. Then it will become relevant.

 

[Marwood]

It is fair? Did he play 5 defenders at Sporting?

No but he had the squad he wanted at Sporting.

I'm no expert on wingbacks but I'm guessing you can't just chuck any winger into the role. Has to be a certain type right.

That said I bet he realises the lack of goals can't go on and at least one of them switches to a winger.

 

[Hester_manc]

Fans (me included) almost see it as given that we win over Southampton. But I think Southampton will be happy to meet us at this time after so many defeats. IF we lose here, then what?

 

[kunal18]

He has to improve results, our squad is not worse than Forest, Fulham or Bournemouth.

 

[Roboc7]

In a years time we’ll most likely still be a bottom half team, with a negative goal difference and Amorim will have been sacked. The club is a disaster on and off the pitch and won’t be sorted out for years, Amorim likely fails but he needs to be given a chance at least.

I think the manager and Berrada/Wilcox are finally aligned that open heart surgery is required and don’t want to just make do with players or the style of football all we play. Problem with that is it is not a quick fix and although it’s necessary it is going to be extremely painful.

None of them might last long enough to see it through but if we go back to pretending we’re not that bad and start renewing contracts for players like Marrinez because he was good for six months and will be expensive to replace, it just continues same cycle that got us here in the first place.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

So what's plan B? Cave in to the players' limitations, revert back to a "safe" back 4 and try shithouse our way to a few wins like we did under Ten Hag? Surviving game to game with no pattern of football, and if we're lucky, hoping for a late McTominay equaliser from a hoof into the box? F**k that shit, we surely had our fill of that the last 18 months?! I know I had!

This system is exposing the likes of Martinez, Dalot, Garnacho, Rashford, Casemiro, Bruno, among others. Good! These are (some of) the players that fans were most divided on whether they're good enough to stay at the club. At least now we know they're not good enough and we can make plans to move them on and start a new chapter for the team.

The season is a write off anyway. So what, he goes back to a system that accommodates the players and we finish what, 10th instead of 14th? Big f**king deal!

This is the open heart surgery Ragnick was talking about. Without anaesthetic. Amorim has cut open the body and exposed what needs to be replaced, the only question is do we let him finish the job or do we get someone "safe" in to stitch it back up and say "no, nothing to see here, everything's fine!"

Exactly how I see it.

 

[Jippy]

The pessimist in me says we're going to sign a few players to fit his system but not the overhaul we need, results won't pick up and he'll be sacked. Then we'll be left with a Frankenstein squad of half Hag half Amorim good for nothings that some other sucker will be brought in to deal with.

I hope we make some serious moves in the January window, we have to really. The confidence of the team must be in the gutter and they're not going to buy into the system if this keeps up.

That would certainly be in keeping with how the club has been run post-SAF.

Must admit, for all the constant moaning about the team having no clear style of play, I've never felt being completely wedded to a singular approach was the holy grail.

 

[Jev]

That would certainly be in keeping with how the club has been run post-SAF.

Must admit, for all the constant moaning about the team having no clear style of play, I've never felt being completely wedded to a singular approach was the holy grail.

It’s really strange how so many posters just accept the idea of a manager incapable of playing any other formation than 5-2-2-1. You can stay true to your philosophy and ideals while making tweaks to accomodate your players. Any manager’s job is to maximize the potential of his squad. A manager who can’t or won’t do that is simply not a good manager.

 

[zurnalist]

I get giving him time but losing these matches in a row is still unacceptable. I don't think sinking the whole season and worst ever finish in PL is worth the x% possibility that the squad will click in this system. If we finish 15th and are as shit next season, what then? He needs to readjust according to players he has available until his demands are met. That doesn't mean he has to go against his philosophy but whatever he is doing at the moment is worst we've been in years and that's saying something. I don't get people not giving him any responsibility whatsoever. He still needs to not lose every single game!

 

[mk7]

There is only three things this team can't do, attack, defend and keep possession. Other than that we are peachy.

I sympathise with amorin to a certain extent, come in mid season probably the worst united squad for a long long time a squad not at all suited to his formation/style.

But still we have to be better he picked that midfield tonight, he chooses to keep playing genuine defenders at wing back, he choose to drop Rashford and garnacho two of our best most creative and biggest goal threats. Those decisions are backfiring on him at the moment.

Anfield is a write off, but we can't get smashed. Otherwise he could be in big big trouble. Outside of the whole there is gonna be pain statement etc etc there is a minimum expectation even for a new manager coming mid season, and right now he isn't hitting it.

This ist just not true - two of the least creative and limited players we have in our already limited and uncreative squad.

 

[Jim Beam]

It is not his fault, but we are probably at our lowest point as a club in modern era and he is unfortunately in the hot seat. It is just an accumulation of years and years of ridiculous spending and awful running of the club which Ineos didn't help with their decisions as well. We won't be relegated (almost certainly) but I did start to look behind in the table which in itself is depressing as feck. Also, if these players by some miracle do end in a fight to stay up how much faith in them you have to keep us in the league? They would probably fold/break under pressure, that's how bad it looks.

As for Amorim, he knows it himself. He has to stop the freefall, 'nothing' more than that at this point. But to get that he needs some results and players buying into his system.. They did at first when he came, but we are looking worse and worse peaking in the 1st half last night. Tbf, Ugarte and Bruno will help once they are both back in the team.

 

[Escobar]

Not so daft especially if he get us relegated. Wolves managed to beat us using the same system and a new manager. What is it then wolves has better players? Or manager is daft and is not able to appreciate players capabilities. (Ps do not tell me its Brunos fault, as it Dolot incompetence's at LWB and coach persistence with him there that got Bruno sent off)

Our situation. After years of shit management and recruiting, it shows. Look at our players/options. Most would not get into any top 6 team

 

[erikcred]

It’s really strange how so many posters just accept the idea of a manager incapable of playing any other formation than 5-2-2-1. You can stay true to your philosophy and ideals while making tweaks to accomodate your players. Any manager’s job is to maximize the potential of his squad. A manager who can’t or won’t do that is simply not a good manager.

As of now, he's just acting like Ange, who gets mocked roundly around these parts.

 

[Escobar]

Realistic. We’ve gone from having little goal threat to zero goal threat. We play 5 defenders every game and conceded 2+ goals. The scenario is not on him but his inability to get the players into his system is, and in 2 months we are going backwards. I’m not calling for his head but I’m saying he’s the wrong man and the club need to acknowledge this as we are looking more like relegation fodder than mid table and that is on him.

There are good signs though. And as long as the squad is so shit, and some players just cant be bothered, what do you expect. He needs new blood

 

[erikcred]

Our situation. After years of shit management and recruiting, it shows. Look at our players/options. Most would not get into any top 6 team

I don't see any of the top 6 hiring our manager either.

 

[Escobar]

There are alot of deluded fans on this forum with their head in the sand. This is worse than ETH atm. We are in relegation form, losing 5 or last 6. Not scored in 270m of football. We havnt scored a single goal when Amorim has played Mazraoui and Dalot as wing backs (I think I heard on tv).

We dont look like scoring ever, and cant keep a clean sheet.

We beat City 2 weeks ago

 

[Bondi77]

I have faith in Ruben and if I was a player he really comes across as a manager I would want to play for.

 

[Escobar]

They didn't adjust, they started implementing their systems immediately. It took while for both them to get going. Both had the benefit of a more suitable squad of players that fit their system. Pep took over a league winning team and Klopp took over a team that took the league title down to the last match.

Amorim has taken over a shit show.

Exactly. Just look at our midfield - there is not a single standout player. Look at our striker options, wingers, or back 4. The thing he should do better is be less defensive, we did best when there was no defender or at least one as WB.

 

[kouroux]

So what's plan B? Cave in to the players' limitations, revert back to a "safe" back 4 and try shithouse our way to a few wins like we did under Ten Hag? Surviving game to game with no pattern of football, and if we're lucky, hoping for a late McTominay equaliser from a hoof into the box? F**k that shit, we surely had our fill of that the last 18 months?! I know I had!

This system is exposing the likes of Martinez, Dalot, Garnacho, Rashford, Casemiro, Bruno, among others. Good! These are (some of) the players that fans were most divided on whether they're good enough to stay at the club. At least now we know they're not good enough and we can make plans to move them on and start a new chapter for the team.


The season is a write off anyway. So what, he goes back to a system that accommodates the players and we finish what, 10th instead of 14th? Big f**king deal!

This is the open heart surgery Ragnick was talking about. Without anaesthetic. Amorim has cut open the body and exposed what needs to be replaced, the only question is do we let him finish the job or do we get someone "safe" in to stitch it back up and say "no, nothing to see here, everything's fine!"

Of course it is a big finishing 10th instead of 14th, there could be up to £20m of money difference between the 2 standings.
Ineos is reducing costs as much as possible so do you not think finishing at a rank that's gonna cause more financial pressure won't be a massive issue for them ?

Open heart surgery has never meant it's meaningless to finish at any rank above 18th place.

 

[crossy1686]

I don't see any of the top 6 hiring our manager either.

Despite city hiring his recruitment mate and then doing a public statement after we signed him to say that they definitely were never interested in signing him at any point whatsoever? Oh yeah, and the fact that Liverpool tried to appoint him after Klopp but he turned them down, and Chelsea speaking to him, but apart from all that nobody wanted him.

 

[Guv77]

We beat City 2 weeks ago

So has everyone else, doesn’t really matter much this season haha

 

[elmo]

I don't see any of the top 6 hiring our manager either.

Apart from Liverpool who wanted him in the summer?

 

[erikcred]

Despite city hiring his recruitment mate and then doing a public statement after we signed him to say that they definitely were never interested in signing him at any point whatsoever? Oh yeah, and the fact that Liverpool tried to appoint him after Klopp but he turned them down, and Chelsea speaking to him, but apart from all that nobody wanted him.

Yeah, gonna need a source on that one. I call bs.

As for Chelsea speaking to him, they spoke and decided not to hire him considering he's not their manager right now? West Ham also 'spoke' to him, but didn't hire him.

Also, what is a recruitment mate and how does it mean that City wanted to hire him?

 

[Swordsman]

back 5 is not working at all. switch to back 4 ?

 

[erikcred]

Apart from Liverpool who wanted him in the summer?

And they didn't hire him eventually! Why is this so difficult for people? He's not the current Liverpool manager.