Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[sullydnl]

We have done the same all over again with ten hag system and players to amorim system and the players he needs and we straight back to square one of another bloody 5 year squad rebuild.

A key point you're overlooking is that even when they were backing Ten Hag as manager at the start of the season, the "ambious" aim expressed by the CEO was to win the title in the 27/28 season. In other words they had already accepted that there would be multiple seasons of team building ahead. And that's if all went to plan with Ten Hag, which it didn't.

Once you accept the squad needed that sort of churn anyway, the disruption that comes from a new manager having a different playstyle has relatively little impact.

In other words if you think the idea of a five-year rebuild is massively beyond the pale, you were always likely to be relatively disappointed with what was planned for the next few years. Because there was never any sign expressed by Ineos that it would be a drastically shorter fix than that.

 

[Sarni]

Sorry but the owners have done the same mistake the glazers and woodward made, they are hopping from manager to a completely different system to another, van gaal was the complete of opposite of moyes and then after two years of trying to lay down foundations and style but then ripped all that up and went to another extreme in mourinho.

We have done the same all over again with ten hag system and players to amorim system and the players he needs and we straight back to square one of another bloody 5 year squad rebuild.

Its never ending with this incompetent club, we should have brought in a manger that could have produced an evolution with what we have instead of a revolution, someone like emery should have been who we had gone for, just look at a competent club like Liverpool who have done a smooth transition from klopp successful reign to further evolving as a side under slot, they specifically choose somone that fitted well with the player personnel and formation.

What other choice was there? Ten Hag did not even have an established system, he was trying anything just to keep the job in his final weeks and prior to that attempted to implement a system that had no real shot at being successful. There was nothing to build on when he left, no foundations.

 

[The Serpent]

Surely something not true is deniable?

Whats not true, How about you name me a ten hag signing that has been integral to Man United's progression and is a sure signing to help man utd progress?

 

[Toshey]

Whats not true, How about you name me a ten hag signing that has been integral to Man United's progression and is a sure signing to help man utd progress?

Best Ten Hag signing is clearly Rasmus Hojlund. He has great qualities and will be awesome for us and our progression.

 

[RexHamilton]

This thread is depressing.

Are folks just getting a quote in so they can come back and say “I told you so”, if it doesn’t work out with Amorim?

He’s had a month. A month where there’s been a fixture every three days.

Almost every single Manchester United fan acknowledges the bulk of these players aren’t good enough.

The results haven’t improved, but I think most can see an improvement in patterns of play. We are creating chances now. And yeah, we’re still not finishing them which is a huge worry. But, we created next to nothing in the last year.

Results will improve but it won’t happened overnight and we’re a million miles away from a a title challenge, but with a few additions, and players getting used to Amorim’s demands, I’m very confident we’ll see improvements after Christmas and certainly over the next 12 months.

 

[Lee565]

What other choice was there? Ten Hag did not even have an established system, he was trying anything just to keep the job in his final weeks and prior to that attempted to implement a system that had no real shot at being successful. There was nothing to build on when he left, no foundations.

True in sense but maybe get a manager that suits the players we have, there is no way we have a worse 11/squad than Bournemouth and Notts forest who sit way above us.

We are missing so many players to fit amorim style and formation, we just making it harder on ourselves again and are we once again put too much stock in letting the manager choose the players to transfer in and out of the club to fit his system and or are we looking at a long term philosophy and formation like clubs like ajax, Barcelona have in place or are just going to be back to square one of a new system and new rebuild if amorim isn't the saviour we think he is?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Whats not true, How about you name me a ten hag signing that has been integral to Man United's progression and is a sure signing to help man utd progress?

I’m just waiting for the billion spent to be explained.

 

[devilish]

This thread is depressing.

Are folks just getting a quote in so they can come back and say “I told you so”, if it doesn’t work out with Amorim?

He’s had a month. A month where there’s been a fixture every three days.

Almost every single Manchester United fan acknowledges the bulk of these players aren’t good enough.

The results haven’t improved, but I think most can see an improvement in patterns of play. We are creating chances now. And yeah, we’re still not finishing them which is a huge worry. But, we created next to nothing in the last year.

Results will improve but it won’t happened overnight and we’re a million miles away from a a title challenge, but with a few additions, and players getting used to Amorim’s demands, I’m very confident we’ll see improvements after Christmas and certainly over the next 12 months.

I hear you and tbf its very difficult to adapt to a different system mid way through the season especially with players with such low football IQ. However I think there's more too it. Let say that Amorim seem to have kicked the same hornet nest Rangnick had done and is now suffering the same repercussions.

 

[Sarni]

True in sense but maybe get a manager that suits the players we have, there is no way we have a worse 11/squad than Bournemouth and Notts forest who sit way above us.

We are missing so many players to fit amorim style and formation, we just making it harder on ourselves again and are we once again put too much stock in letting the manager choose the players to transfer in and out of the club to fit his system and or are we looking at a long term philosophy and formation like clubs like ajax, Barcelona have in place or are just going to be back to square one of a new system and new rebuild if amorim isn't the saviour we think he is?

The players we have are not good enough anyway. They are maybe good enough to finish top 4/5 in 1 of 2 or 3 seasons, which is still pointless as all it would do is gain us access to CL where we would inevitably get beaten by the first good team we encounter (and in last season's case we did not even have to play good teams to be embarrassed). We needed a complete overhaul, despite spending more than half a billion over previous 2.5 years, as ridiculous as it sounds. There was nothing to build on either in terms of style or personnel.

I am hoping we stick with Amorim for the foreseeable future, and by the time we eventually move on the foundations will be solid enough for the next manager to step in and continue. I think what he's trying to build here is good.

 

[RexHamilton]

I hear you and tbf its very difficult to adapt to a different system mid way through the season especially with players with such low football IQ. However I think there's more too it. Let say that Amorim seem to have kicked the same hornet nest Rangnick had done and is now suffering the same repercussions.

Yeah, but I think the difference is Rangnick was interim whereas the club have very obviously gone and sought Amorim as their man, their first head-coach.

The players will have to see he’s the man now and it’s work with him or leave. I really do think he’ll get a lot of time because of that.

 

[Exiled_Red]

Anyone giving Amorim shit has totally missed the plot. The guys has had 1 month, no preseason, no transfer windows, implementing a new system, and is working with a squad that is at best the 6th or 7th best in the league and has been underperforming for years. I wouldn’t even considering criticizing him until next season.

 

[freddie the red]

Wow, wow and triple wow.....I see a lot of posters on here losing their minds over the new head coach/manager after a few weeks and games. It actually defies belief!
This guy knows what he's doing.
He broke the duopoly in Portugal with Sporting after 20 years of Benfica and Porto playing pass the parcel with the title much like SAF and Klopp did at Aberdeen and Dortmund.
These guys were disruptors who took on the established champions and beat them before moving to England and doing what we all know they did there.
Amorim was hired (please god) to do things the way he knows is effective in a system and formation that he's the master of.
The fact that the squad he inherited is a clusterfunk of sicknotes, oldies, wasters and the downright useless is nothing to do with him.
As I see it at the moment, he's rotating to see if there are ANY worth persevering with for the medium to long term and we can all see just how few there are out of the hundreds of millions if not billions that have been squandered assembling the current mish mash.
If we have to go backwards to go forwards then so be it, but if the club were to persist in the status quo as it was up to a few weeks ago then I fear we would have been another decade or two away from any meaningful challenge for the top honours.
No, let this guy rip the squad to pieces, build it in his own image and judge him when he's done that.....not after a few weeks for goodness sake.

 

[devilish]

Yeah, but I think the difference is Rangnick was interim whereas the club have very obviously gone and sought Amorim as their man, their first head-coach.

The players will have to see he’s the man now and it’s work with him or leave. I really do think he’ll get a lot of time because of that.

I believe that this sort of management was long due and I have a feeling that INEOS are in line with the zero tolerance policy Amorim is implementing. However for every reaction there's a reaction and things are going to get a lot worse before they get better

 

[r0663664]

Best Ten Hag signing is clearly Rasmus Hojlund. He has great qualities and will be awesome for us and our progression.

Seriously? Hoijund isn't EPL material now. Maybe 2-3 years time with development.

 

[RexHamilton]

I believe that this sort of management was long due and I have a feeling that INEOS are in line with the zero tolerance policy Amorim is implementing. However for every reaction there's a reaction and things are going to get a lot worse before they get better

Yeah, maybe. And from the looks of this thread, if things get worse the knives will really be out for Ruben. But hopefully INEOS have more sense and give him the time and backing he clearly needs.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Sorry but the owners have done the same mistake the glazers and woodward made, they are hopping from manager to a completely different system to another, van gaal was the complete of opposite of moyes and then after two years of trying to lay down foundations and style but then ripped all that up and went to another extreme in mourinho.

We have done the same all over again with ten hag system and players to amorim system and the players he needs and we straight back to square one of another bloody 5 year squad rebuild.

Its never ending with this incompetent club, we should have brought in a manger that could have produced an evolution with what we have instead of a revolution, someone like emery should have been who we had gone for, just look at a competent club like Liverpool who have done a smooth transition from klopp successful reign to further evolving as a side under slot, they specifically choose somone that fitted well with the player personnel and formation.

Sorry but what exactly was the ETH system we have skipped from?

 

[Foolsgold21]

What are you hinting at here?

Oh yeah I wasn’t meaning how this reads.

Just that the mood will really hit rock bottom, and with Newcastle, Liverpool and Arsenal to come… can’t see it getting better anytime soon!!

 

[elisha27]

There is one thing worrying me about Amorim is that he only sticks with one formation, which is this 3421 formation. I haven’t seen him changing to 3412 or 352 if we need goals (which is a formation that add more goal scorers than 3421). Lot of managers out there tend to change their formation structure just to add more forwards if they need goals, but not with Amorim. I think the lacks of flexibility in his system could be benefit for opposition managers especially in high level of football because they know that he will stick with 3421 formation no matter what.

He addressed this specifically in one of his interviews. He said there are multiple established tactical adjustments within the framework of his system, but that he cannot introduce them to the players at this stage because it would overwhelm them while they're still learning the basics of their roles. He acknowledged that this will make the team more "basic" and "easier to play against".

It's exactly what "don't run before you can walk" espouses. This phrase is a mainstay of the public lexicon for good reason.

 

[Ish]

Wow, wow and triple wow.....I see a lot of posters on here losing their minds over the new head coach/manager after a few weeks and games. It actually defies belief!
This guy knows what he's doing.
He broke the duopoly in Portugal with Sporting after 20 years of Benfica and Porto playing pass the parcel with the title much like SAF and Klopp did at Aberdeen and Dortmund.
These guys were disruptors who took on the established champions and beat them before moving to England and doing what we all know they did there.
Amorim was hired (please god) to do things the way he knows is effective in a system and formation that he's the master of.
The fact that the squad he inherited is a clusterfunk of sicknotes, oldies, wasters and the downright useless is nothing to do with him.
As I see it at the moment, he's rotating to see if there are ANY worth persevering with for the medium to long term and we can all see just how few there are out of the hundreds of millions if not billions that have been squandered assembling the current mish mash.
If we have to go backwards to go forwards then so be it, but if the club were to persist in the status quo as it was up to a few weeks ago then I fear we would have been another decade or two away from any meaningful challenge for the top honours.
No, let this guy rip the squad to pieces, build it in his own image and judge him when he's done that.....not after a few weeks for goodness sake.

Nothing should really surprise you these days….

 

[Nogho]

Let's not be ridiculous. He said himself this was going to be a painful start when he joined and it would take time.

If he packs it in and resigns so soon into his tenure then that will do even more damage to his reputation.

I really hope that he stays and that we start to thrive under him. Nothing would make me happier.

But the leadership of this club and the overpaid players and their fallouts is over the top at times.

 

[Nogho]

Managers today don't resign, as a general rule. That would null out a potential pay off.

I see him more sticking to his guns, and hoping the ownership of the club stick to theirs - because one of the conversations with them before joining must have been around a long term plan and investment to support that plan.

If the ownership of the club lets him down in that regard, I can see a future fractured relationship that ultimately results in a sacking - and thus the merry go round will continue - but that's purely hypothetical - we're a long way off questioning Amorim at this moment in time. A long, long way. I wouldn't bother questioning him at all as the right or wrong man until at the very least the end of next season.

I'm sick to death of this club to honest. I'm ok with short term (hell, even medium term) pain for long term gain. I'd rather put the manager blindly on a pedestal and blame everyone from the owner to the kit man - because the club is rotten to the core and needs an almighty amount of change.

Yeah - following this club on a daily basis since the early 90s so nothing really surprises you any more.

But you really wonder at times. But it’s more or less always comes down to people with money who wants more money and power.

Doubt any manager will automatically resign at united.

The big loss is definitely on Amorim. No way Rashford and Hojlund will allow a 3-0 thrashing at home to Bournemouth.

Maybe. But he really needs to rotate , otherwise the injuries will start to stack up. We have been there before.

 

[Maluco]

I am securing firm this time until he has rid the club of the hangers on and snakes behind the scenes. It’s time to self-cleanse the last 10 years through gritted teeth.

 

[Eugenius]

Yeah, maybe. And from the looks of this thread, if things get worse the knives will really be out for Ruben. But hopefully INEOS have more sense and give him the time and backing he clearly needs.

Not sure what gives you this faith in Ineos tbf. They are basically run by a 70+ year old billionaire with a huge ego who binned the DoF after 5 months. It's not like their other foray into football in Nice has been a clear success.

 

[RexHamilton]

Not sure what gives you this faith in Ineos tbf. They are basically run by a 70+ year old billionaire with a huge ego who binned the DoF after 5 months. It's not like their other foray into football in Nice has been a clear success.

Not got huge faith in INEOS, but would be confident that they’ll give Amorim time because he’s their first head coach, he’s young with a clear vision and everyone acknowledges the current squad isn’t in great shape. So for those reasons I don’t see Amorim getting the boot anytime in the near future.

 

[Lentwood]

I'm always hesitant to recommend "full rebuild" because its easy to say, but the reality is, it could mean genuine relegation battles if we perform the "open heart surgery" Rangnick recommended.

Our squad is not as bad as people believe, but we're never going to be able to dominate possession and dominate games with the profile of player we have now.

In the past, we've kidded ourselves that players can step up. "If only they could stay fit", "if only they played in position xyz", "if only they had x player beside them"...the reality is, top quality players are quality players in any team in any system.

The likes of Bruno, Martinez, Rashford, Dalot etc...are not the right profile to build on. They should all be sold if we're really serious about reshaping the squad in Amorim's image.

The base criteria for any footballer we bring in moving forward should be "are they a world class athletes?". If the answer is 'no', then by default, we strike them from the list.

 

[Champ]

I’m sure that’s a factor. Why wouldn’t it be? That’s an inevitable consequence of players learning a new system with very little time to drill them on it in training. But that’s life. The alternative is changing nothing and continuing to get the same results. As Amorin said himself, we need to expect this. The idea is we use this half a season to get the players up to speed so we can hit the ground running next season. We’re not getting relegated and we can still get into Europe if we finish strongly. So there really isn’t any need for so many fans to throw their toys out of the pram.

Yeah, that's all reasonable to take.

I'd like to see better results by the end of January at least though, even with the squad we have, which evidently isn't as good as it first appeared.

 

[Sarni]

I'm always hesitant to recommend "full rebuild" because its easy to say, but the reality is, it could mean genuine relegation battles if we perform the "open heart surgery" Rangnick recommended.

Our squad is not as bad as people believe, but we're never going to be able to dominate possession and dominate games with the profile of player we have now.

In the past, we've kidded ourselves that players can step up. "If only they could stay fit", "if only they played in position xyz", "if only they had x player beside them"...the reality is, top quality players are quality players in any team in any system.

The likes of Bruno, Martinez, Rashford, Dalot etc...are not the right profile to build on. They should all be sold if we're really serious about reshaping the squad in Amorim's image.

The base criteria for any footballer we bring in moving forward should be "are they a world class athletes?". If the answer is 'no', then by default, we strike them from the list.

I don't think we will really be in relegation battles, and I also don't think the rebuild will take as long as people think. We have seen recent examples of teams turning their fortunes around relatively quickly after appointing a good manager and re-shaping the squad. We won't be dominating the league in the next 2 years but we should be in a far better position in 12 months time and then hopefully build on that.

 

[red_de_pologne]

If he plays Bruno every game regardless of form then it's a concern.

 

[santeria13]

This thread is depressing.

Are folks just getting a quote in so they can come back and say “I told you so”, if it doesn’t work out with Amorim?

He’s had a month. A month where there’s been a fixture every three days.

Almost every single Manchester United fan acknowledges the bulk of these players aren’t good enough.

The results haven’t improved, but I think most can see an improvement in patterns of play. We are creating chances now. And yeah, we’re still not finishing them which is a huge worry. But, we created next to nothing in the last year.

Results will improve but it won’t happened overnight and we’re a million miles away from a a title challenge, but with a few additions, and players getting used to Amorim’s demands, I’m very confident we’ll see improvements after Christmas and certainly over the next 12 months.

Yeah I don't get it. Most in here were in agreement we needed to completely rip up the way we were playing and implement a whole new way of playing which is always going to rough, never mind doing it mid season when we have a game every 3-4 days and barely any time on the training pitch.

There's been encouraging signs and there's also been really bad results. One thing I'll say is when we lose so far under Amorim, it's not because we are completely outplayed in every metric and look outclassed (ie. most our games under ETH last season and this season). We often have a semblence of control in the games and look more dangerous overall I would say.

The same people saying he needs to scrap the formation and revert to a style that suits the players were probably saying the opposite one month ago. Very flip-floppy. At least give the man a proper pre-season and some new players that he has a say on. ETH got given way too much time, that's true but the problem with him is we were on a downwards trend in both results and performances the longer he was in charge. Ideally, with a manager you want to see steady upward progress and that's what I hope and believe we'll see with Amorim.

 

[PlasticRed]

Ten Hag is a good manager. Rubens spell in charge has proved this. The issues at united are institutional. The rot is so bad the whole place is a mess.

Sir Jim needs to find the money to make changes quickly. We basically need 6 or 7 new first teamers to make a difference.

 

[Oranges038]

This thread is depressing.

Are folks just getting a quote in so they can come back and say “I told you so”, if it doesn’t work out with Amorim?

He’s had a month. A month where there’s been a fixture every three days.

Almost every single Manchester United fan acknowledges the bulk of these players aren’t good enough.

The results haven’t improved, but I think most can see an improvement in patterns of play. We are creating chances now. And yeah, we’re still not finishing them which is a huge worry. But, we created next to nothing in the last year.

Results will improve but it won’t happened overnight and we’re a million miles away from a a title challenge, but with a few additions, and players getting used to Amorim’s demands, I’m very confident we’ll see improvements after Christmas and certainly over the next 12 months.

Toys are already out of the pram.

It's sad, but not unexpected.

 

[NLunited]

We are playing considerably better than under eth. Although our squad is not good enough and we are learning a new system you can see steps in the right direction. It will click at some point that I am sure of. The stats are showing that we are on the right track

You can say that about some of the first games this season that we drew/lost.

We do look better, but the same issues are still present. Lack of efficiency in front of goal, brainfarts.

Firing managers is not the answer. Give Amorim time to tweak and upgrade.

 

[NLunited]

I don't think I've ever completely disagreed with someone so often as I have with Howson. Wasn't he vehemently defending ETH right until the very end as well?

Pretty much, and he was right. Ten Hag had to go though, because he was burned out.

The same could happen with Amorim, but he has a better chance of turning things around. He‘s starting out with a better squad.

I‘m hoping a couple signings can give him a boost so he can last in the job.

 

[Raoul]

Seriously? Hoijund isn't EPL material now. Maybe 2-3 years time with development.

He is PL material now, just not at a level that Man United should be using as the club’s premier striker.

 

[Lord of Blackhaven]

If this guy can't fix us nobody can. He is the first manager since SAF I feel absolutely confident about giving as long as it takes to get it right. Previous record, age profile, footballing philosophy, personality; he is the complete package.

 

[Raoul]

Ten Hag is a good manager. Rubens spell in charge has proved this. The issues at united are institutional. The rot is so bad the whole place is a mess.

Sir Jim needs to find the money to make changes quickly. We basically need 6 or 7 new first teamers to make a difference.

I wouldn’t conflate Ruben’s start as an affirmation of Ten Hag’s quality, when Ruben has to untangle what ETH left him with players bought to play in a completely different system and culture to that which Amorim seeks to implement. Therefore the “we will suffer before we will improve” line is spot on.

 

[mav_9me]

It's still niche. Which other top teams play 3 at the back every week?

And I'm not sure I agree on the players not being specialist either, If they weren't specialists then why are we talking about needing to sign players to suit the new formation?

Not saying it can't work though, and if It can I think Amorim has a good of a chance as anybody.

Inter and Leverkusen. Chelsea of course won the CL with this formation.

I actually was also very hesitant initially because of a back 5. But having watched us play, the formation is not as important as the system. Yes there are different demands of the fullbacks/wingbacks and the no. 10s but still I am just happy to see us play with a plan and method.

Back 5 doesn't have to be defensive. I once saw the left CB for inter Bastoni cross from the left to the right CB in the box Bisseck who scored with a thumping header. Point is it depends on how you are playing, how much control etc.

 

[rpg]

If lose to Wolves this friday would someone open a sack watch thread?

 

[RopersReturn]

I get you’re upset about witnessing a loss live, but that’s sport.

Amorim is trying to determine his squad on the fly, we all know that. Today was hardly a rotated squad. Only really Zirkzee and Malacia. And Zirkzee is a big money signing who should be getting chances like today.

If you’re happy with regular 5th place finishes, and shit football, then fine, but if you want to one day watch your team lift a title again, you’ll have to commit to the growing pains.

Absolutely, nobody said the medicine was going to taste nice, but it’s certainly work in progress.

 

[holdsteady]

I wouldn’t conflate Ruben’s start as an affirmation of Ten Hag’s quality, when Ruben has to untangle what ETH left him with players bought to play in a completely different system and culture to that which Amorim seems to implement. Therefore the “we will suffer before we will improve” line is spot on.

The club has been let down most by Rashford, Bruno, Maguire, Case Antony, De Gea & Onana over the last 3 seasons. That and the medical team. Antony and Onana are on Erik. Casemiro was never going to be a long term solution. He got Rashford firing by playing deep on the counter but no one liked that so opened up in year 2 and 3 and we look crap, just like under Ole. It's not a surprise.