croadyman
Prepare for despair
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2018
- Messages
- 41,212
Yeah the Brazil national oneAncelloti is looking for a job, you say…?
Yeah the Brazil national oneAncelloti is looking for a job, you say…?
I would like to see anywhere I have moaned constantly about players, or referred to them as ‘shite’, anywhere on the forum. Thanks.Calls manager shite - ‘negative’
Calls players shite at every opportunity to defend this nobody manager - ‘proper fan’
These players have shown previously that they’re capable players, maybe not capable of winning the league but certainly more capable than 6 wins in 23 league games. Well they’v seem to show they’re capable in fixtures v Arsenal, City, Liverpool
My former account was banned because of complaining about ETH football ways.
This is what I tried to explain in my initial post you dully dismissed. Low or rather shocking points total will put you under huge pressure esp. at United. You cant just say (nor know) Amorim simply gets the full next season, and Jimmy will be watching how its unfolding.
Did you see him (and Berrada) at the game yesterday? Im no body language expert just guess he didnt really look entertained. Certainly not a look of man happy to splash another hundreds of milions supporting the coach in free fall. Besides, he had an interview praising Ashword not that long before he fired him literally 10mins after another dismall defeat. Yesterday Ratcliffe saying Ruben is his long-term man will mean feck all tomorrow.
But then, when I wrote my peice early after full-time yesterday and what I thought was one of the main problems, I saw you was there straight away talking about great point earned, progress etc. Thats me thinking you are either a glass full guy backing (any) manager no matter the shite and results served (which is fair enough) or you are somewhat related to Amorim or Ineos PR machine (until they twist).
NYT / The Athletic claim he's already agreed to join, but I'm not seeing anything in the Brazilian media just yet (feels like they're being extra cautious after jumping the gun last time).Yeah the Brazil national one
My former account was banned because of complaining about ETH football ways.
Yes it would be a shock. I just don't see this guy improving us.If we recruit well this summer, I think you're in for a shock.
Ok, maybe not crazy but silly then. He needs time and he needs players. Whats the point of sacking a manager before getting him to make his team if not in full then in part.
Yes it would be a shock. I just don't see this guy improving us.
He has all the tools required to be an excellent cup manager though. so don't be surprised if we win the EL this year and do well in CL next year.
Yeah definitely has to start well next season irrelevant of who the fixtures are against. Ideally we get a kind start but can't do anything about itI’ve seen people say that he continue on current form up until Christmas 2025 and only then might he come under pressure. That surely can’t be true. I agree that he will get the summer but he’s going to need to hit the ground running next season. If we are on 5 points after 5 games he will be under immense pressure.
Controversial, but I think he already has improved us. No longer are we seeing those silly, unsustainable, basketball style/toss of a coin games where anything goes. Just by the very nature of his system, we're seeing more stability and control. Obviously, the attacking players are massively underperforming and that drags everything down and creates a certain narrative.Yes it would be a shock. I just don't see this guy improving us.
He has all the tools required to be an excellent cup manager though. so don't be surprised if we win the EL this year and do well in CL next year.
Controversial, but I think he already has improved us. No longer are we seeing those silly, unsustainable, basketball style/toss of a coin games where anything goes. Just by the very nature of his system, we're seeing more stability and control. Obviously, the attacking players are massively underperforming and that drags everything down and creates a certain narrative.
Crazy to say, but if we were to finish 17th, I wouldn't consider us a significantly worse side than Fulham, who are currently 8th. Improve the attack, maybe add another midfielder and potentially a goalkeeping upgrade and you're looking at a side who can be looking at the top 6.
I agree with everything you're saying here.Controversial, but I think he already has improved us. No longer are we seeing those silly, unsustainable, basketball style/toss of a coin games where anything goes. Just by the very nature of his system, we're seeing more stability and control. Obviously, the attacking players are massively underperforming and that drags everything down and creates a certain narrative.
Crazy to say, but if we were to finish 17th, I wouldn't consider us a significantly worse side than Fulham, who are currently 8th. Improve the attack, maybe add another midfielder and potentially a goalkeeping upgrade and you're looking at a side who can be looking at the top 6.
Short reminder that we haven't won a game in 90 minutes the last 6 weeksI agree with everything you're saying here.
When Amorim first took over we were genuinely complete shite for a few months. Up until the 2-2 against Everton, in fact, I thought we looked as bad as we ever have.
From March onwards, I think we have improved a lot not just on Amorim's first few months but even on the last season and a half under Ten Hag. The issue is, the attackers are underperforming and so is the goalkeeper, so we're losing out in those tight games which we deserve to take points from because our opponents have been far more clinical than us.
Bournemouth, Forest and Wolves are the clearest examples of that. I'd say we were clearly the better side in each of those games and yet we got one point in total out of them. Even against City at Old Trafford, I think we were quite considerably better and probably could've won with a more clinical attack.
My point is that from 17th up towards around 8th, it's all much of a muchness. I don't think it would take an unbelievable jump for us to make 8th next season. The real leap would be to get into the top 4/5.The league table doesn't lie.
I guess that’s discussion over then.The league table doesn't lie.
Well he needs a proven goalscorer for thatMy point is that from 17th up towards around 8th, it's all much of a muchness. I don't think it would take an unbelievable jump for us to make 8th next season. The real leap would be to get into the top 4/5.
Thank you for contradicting a statement I didn't make.Short reminder that we haven't won a game in 90 minutes the last 6 weeks
I just don't see it and we are shipping goals for fun. How many times do we threaten the opposition GK ? you cannot put everything on players and say we are underperforming.He has improved us though... the results may not show this but if you watch the games, there is an improvement.
We were inconsistent in our performances, easy to play against, we are much different now.
He has shown in the past he is a great league manager too.
I think there were signs during Amorim’s first couple of months, but they were isolated examples and not backed up with any consistency. Liverpool away, Arsenal away in the cup and City away. I remember the City game in particular being dismissed by Gary Neville as being 'two poor sides' and the late goals may have allowed others to believe that it was a smash and grab performance. That wasn't true though. If you watch the second half back, there was only one team playing any football. City were giving the ball straight back to us and we were sustaining attacks. As I say though, these performances were isolated examples. Anyway, I digress.I agree with everything you're saying here.
When Amorim first took over we were genuinely complete shite for a few months. Up until the 2-2 against Everton, in fact, I thought we looked as bad as we ever have.
From March onwards, I think we have improved a lot not just on Amorim's first few months but even on the last season and a half under Ten Hag. The issue is, the attackers are underperforming and so is the goalkeeper, so we're losing out in those tight games which we deserve to take points from because our opponents have been far more clinical than us.
Bournemouth, Forest and Wolves are the clearest examples of that. I'd say we were clearly the better side in each of those games and yet we got one point in total out of them. Even against City at Old Trafford, I think we were quite considerably better and probably could've won with a more clinical attack.
Fully agreed. I think Cunha and Delap can take us to 8th. Cunha and Gyökeres and we can compete for top 5.Well he needs a proven goalscorer for that
I mean if you fail to win a single game in 6 weeks, has it been much of an improvement? Performing better and being unlucky (like the Wolves game) can happen, but every single time over more than a month?Thank you for contradicting a statement I didn't make.
The point of my post was explicitly that we've been playing much better recently but not seeing the results of that because our attackers and goalkeeper are under-performing; your "short reminder" does nothing to dispute that. If you'd like to make an actual argument, I'm more than happy to engage in good faith.
I just don't see it and we are shipping goals for fun. How many times do we threaten the opposition GK ? you cannot put everything on players and say we are underperforming.
I thought the whole point of having a footballing structure above the manager is that there's more continuity and the manager no longer has to handpick "his" own players.When Amorim signed, many Sporting fans warned us of this exact situation. Big name, disruptive players would be moved on, he would stick rigidly to good tactics and formation even though our players are not suited to it (due to being technically inept and unathletic), things would get worse before getting better when he's able to bring in his own players.
So you presume no Europe because you expect us to not win the Europa League (which should be the bare minimum btw), he then gets the chance to spend £150m and is allowed to finish 8th? And we should still go ahead and trust this guy to get us top 4/title?
Bizarre line of thinking, he should be binned if we don’t win Europa - if not then he has to be top 5 next season (UCL spot).
It’s only United fans who have an obsession with giving managers 5 years or so before the expectation to challenge, every guy that walks in is treated like some sort of messiah that can’t do anything wrong and needs all the money in the world to get ‘his players in’.
He hasnt been good but I'm still of opinion he shouldnt be sacked. You find calling calls for a sack is silly insulting, I dont.I’d still disagree with that qualifier. The point of hiring a manager is for them to - well - manage. Managers/coaches seldom join optimal circumstances/scenarios and are usually/generally hired with/under the belief they can extract more from what's available to them.
The notion of a manager not being judged until they have/make their team seems to largely be a Manchester United thing. Perhaps my views are partially rooted in confirmation bias, but generally, everywhere else - managers are expected to earn "goodwill", whereas at United it is afforded to them from the get-go and for no reasons other than "we sacked managers before"/"if you hire a manager you gotta stick with them" - and backed with time and millions of pounds in investment until everyone goes "doh! he's shite"
For clarification - I'm not even made my mind up on Amorim yet. I find him really likeable, but similarly - I can see why and what the calls for him to be sacked are anchored in on. 6 prem wins in 6 months is insane. Ten Hag has a higher points per match ratio than him this season. it's been like 35 games with very little to believe or buy into. Calling people crazy or silly when there's an easily traceable rationale as to why they don't think he's up to it - is dismissive, if not insulting.
Amorim has not been good.
I know points and wins are the only thing for a lot of fans but I feel context should also be considere. Ten Hags team coughed up something like 15 chances a game and seemed to have an insane notion that we’d be lucky not to concede actual goals whilst scoring more than them. Amorims team though don’t cough up chances, you can see a semblance of what he’s trying and fair to say that we would have a lot more wins under our belt now if we had someone that could score goalsI’d still disagree with that qualifier. The point of hiring a manager is for them to - well - manage. Managers/coaches seldom join optimal circumstances/scenarios and are usually/generally hired with/under the belief they can extract more from what's available to them.
The notion of a manager not being judged until they have/make their team seems to largely be a Manchester United thing. Perhaps my views are partially rooted in confirmation bias, but generally, everywhere else - managers are expected to earn "goodwill", whereas at United it is afforded to them from the get-go and for no reasons other than "we sacked managers before"/"if you hire a manager you gotta stick with them" - and backed with time and millions of pounds in investment until everyone goes "doh! he's shite"
For clarification - I'm not even made my mind up on Amorim yet. I find him really likeable, but similarly - I can see why and what the calls for him to be sacked are anchored in on. 6 prem wins in 6 months is insane. Ten Hag has a higher points per match ratio than him this season. it's been like 35 games with very little to believe or buy into. Calling people crazy or silly when there's an easily traceable rationale as to why they don't think he's up to it - is dismissive, if not insulting.
Amorim has not been good.
I know points and wins are the only thing for a lot of fans but I feel context should also be considere. Ten Hags team coughed up something like 15 chances a game and seemed to have an insane notion that we’d be lucky not to concede actual goals whilst scoring more than them. Amorims team though don’t cough up chances, you can see a semblance of what he’s trying and fair to say that we would have a lot more coins under our belt now if we had someone that could score goals
1.Based on what we have seen, there are a lot of managers we could get that would improve the team. That is a very very low bar.For the people who want Amorim sacked now - I think to give your arguments some semblance of credibility you need to be able to answer the following two questions:
1. Which managers do you believe we can sign this summer who you think are likely to represent an improvement on him?
2. Do you believe that, under these managers, we would need to spend less money on improving the squad this summer than we will if we stick with Amorim?
I understand the arguments that what we have seen so far just isn't good enough but I feel as though the improvements we need to make to the side are essentially going to be the same whoever you bring in.
Would you say a players like Quenda and Gyokores are specific to his system, or just good players? Because they were examples of key players in the last side with which he had great achievements with.1.Based on what we have seen, there are a lot of managers we could get that would improve the team. That is a very very low bar.
2. I think it will be cheaper in the long term to not buy players for an Amorim system this summer when the probability of him turning it around is so much lower than the probability of him being sacked next November.
Question back - if you knew for a fact that Amorim would be sacked at some point next season, what would you do this summer? That is how the club should be thinking because of how likely that appears to be.
1.Based on what we have seen, there are a lot of managers we could get that would improve the team. That is a very very low bar.
2. I think it will be cheaper in the long term to not buy players for an Amorim system this summer when the probability of him turning it around is so much lower than the probability of him being sacked next November.
Question back - if you knew for a fact that Amorim would be sacked at some point next season, what would you do this summer? That is how the club should be thinking because of how likely that appears to be.
The whole point of a footballing structure is that it's collaborative. This is a pretty standard thing at most clubs anywhere in the world at any level.I thought the whole point of having a footballing structure above the manager is that there's more continuity and the manager no longer has to handpick "his" own players.
They'll just refer to context as excuses.I know points and wins are the only thing for a lot of fans but I feel context should also be considere. Ten Hags team coughed up something like 15 chances a game and seemed to have an insane notion that we’d be lucky not to concede actual goals whilst scoring more than them. Amorims team though don’t cough up chances, you can see a semblance of what he’s trying and fair to say that we would have a lot more wins under our belt now if we had someone that could score goals
"Bring in his own players" implies otherwise. Most clubs do not operate that way.The whole point of a footballing structure is that it's collaborative. This is a pretty standard thing at most clubs anywhere in the world at any level.
It's a hard one to judge accurately because the bolded applies surely to ETH?I know points and wins are the only thing for a lot of fans but I feel context should also be considere. Ten Hags team coughed up something like 15 chances a game and seemed to have an insane notion that we’d be lucky not to concede actual goals whilst scoring more than them. Amorims team though don’t cough up chances, you can see a semblance of what he’s trying and fair to say that we would have a lot more wins under our belt now if we had someone that could score goals
Just getting a few quality players should be enough to assess whether the manager is up to the job."Bring in his own players" implies otherwise. Most clubs do not operate that way.
Every club collaborates with their manager regarding transfers. "Bring in his own players" is an empty meaningless blanket statement used to argue in bad faith."Bring in his own players" implies otherwise. Most clubs do not operate that way.
If I knew categorically that he'd be sacked next season then I'd sack him at the end of the season. I just don't share your belief that this is overwhelmingly likely to happen.1.Based on what we have seen, there are a lot of managers we could get that would improve the team. That is a very very low bar.
2. I think it will be cheaper in the long term to not buy players for an Amorim system this summer when the probability of him turning it around is so much lower than the probability of him being sacked next November.
Question back - if you knew for a fact that Amorim would be sacked at some point next season, what would you do this summer? That is how the club should be thinking because of how likely that appears to be.
How is it bad faith when there are still many fans who clearly expect the manager to get handpicked targets this summer?Every club collaborates with their manager regarding transfers. "Bring in his own players" is an empty meaningless blanket statement used to argue in bad faith.