Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Bo_devil]

I agree to a point. I would say we cannot pass out from the back at all........even when we are NOT under pressure.

The time it takes us to pass us along our back line, back and forth, back and forth, then.......to a wingback who then passes it back to one of our back three..................it only encourages and invites pressure from the opposition.

When that pressure inevitably comes then we cannot handle it. The spaces that existed for a few seconds have been squeezed out by the press and either we lose the ball with a hurried pass or we play a hopeful pass straight to the opposition.

I am still on board with Amorim but I certinaly don't think he walks on water.

There are many many times when the pass is on from defence into midfield and for some reason we are just not taking it. Either the players are repeatedly not following orders or the manager is not correcting them.

This has been happening for a while, with other managers too. I often watch better teams picking these passes and watch us and think, the other team would have played the pass through there.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yeah, completely disagree with that opinion.

• Amad played at wingback and did great v Ipswich, then again in a 3-0 win over Everton.

• After that we played Arsenal away and he benched Amad to play 2 full backs at WB.

• The following game it was Amad at WB again v Forest.

• Then City and two fullbacks again (Amad at 10).

• V Spurs two fullbacks and Amad benched.

• v Bournemouth and two fullbacks (Amad at 10)

• v Wolves it’s two fullbacks again (Amad at 10)

• v Newcastle it’s the same story

• v Liverpool same same

• v Arsenal it’s fullbaks and Amad benched


FINALLY, after a tonne of shit results Amad plays again at WB and scores a hat trick at home to Southampton.

• The following game is away, where we lose to Brighton with two fullbacks and Amad back at 10.

• it’s Fulham and two fullbacks

• Leicester now and Dorgu is in, with Amad at 10.


Then comes the injury right?

So despite us looking better with Amad at RWB, he played just 4 times there as the manager time and time again preferred more defensive players there, despite our results getting worse. Even after scoring a hat trick from wingback he immediately moved him to accommodate more defensive players for the following games.

It’s been my gripe the whole time with the system.
I’m all in if it’s 3 defenders with two sitting mids in front, wingers as wingbacks and two number 10’s… feck yeah.
But Amorim time & time again has chosen the much more defensive option of 5 defenders as his default.

 

[Kayla40TS]

Yeah, completely disagree with that opinion.

He 100% prefers AT LEAST one of his wingbacks to be operating in the final third in possession. I believe at sporting it was the LWB but I could be misremembering which side it was but the points is that he can't play his preferred tactics because he knows the current CMs can't handle covering the ground that they would need to cover.

 

[Remember the geese]

What you seeing pal? I’ve watched every minute of his era here and not seen anything consistent that makes me think he can get us mid table, let alone higher.

I'm seeing a team who can't score goals, with attackers who massively distort the impression fans have of the current Manchester United. Recruit properly this summer with upgrades on Garnacho and Højlund and suddenly we jump into the top half. Improve on the keeper and one or two other areas on top of that and we're pushing for the Champions League places.

We have some really good players. However, the attack is arguably only bettered by Southampton for how poor it is.

 

[Xtrmntr]

Why bring on a passive centre half who'll leave in a month when we needed aggression and forward intent? I'm fully behind Amorim by the way. Perhaps he's just trying to deal with a horrible football team, but THE ICE MAN isn't and never had been the answer. He's shite

 

[Kayla40TS]

• Amad played at wingback and did great v Ipswich, then again in a 3-0 win over Everton.

• After that we played Arsenal away and he benched Amad to play 2 full backs at WB.

• The following game it was Amad at WB again v Forest.

• Then City and two fullbacks again (Amad at 10).

• V Spurs two fullbacks and Amad benched.

• v Bournemouth and two fullbacks (Amad at 10)

• v Wolves it’s two fullbacks again (Amad at 10)

• v Newcastle it’s the same story

• v Liverpool same same

• v Arsenal it’s fullbaks and Amad benched


FINALLY, after a tonne of shit results Amad plays again at WB and scores a hat trick at home to Southampton.

• The following game is away, where we lose to Brighton with two fullbacks and Amad back at 10.

• it’s Fulham and two fullbacks

• Leicester now and Dorgu is in, with Amad at 10.


Then comes the injury right?

So despite us looking better with Amad at RWB, he played just 4 times there as the manager time and time again preferred more defensive players there. Even after scoring a hat trick from wingback he immediately moved him to accommodate more defensive players for the following games.

Because against good teams he knows if he plays his an attacking player at WB our midfield is going to get overrun and we'll be played off the park.

 

[Eugenius]

He 100% prefers AT LEAST one of his wingbacks to be operating in the final third in possession. I believe at sporting it was the LWB but I could be misremembering which side it was but the points is that he can't play his preferred tactics because he knows the current CMs can't handle covering the ground that they would need to cover.

He also has been actively benching the guy who actually played CM for him at Lisbon for 32 year old Casemiro too.

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

This has been discussed to death, but as a reminder - the rationale here is that we're trying to build a team capable of competing at the top, not an occasional top 4/5 challenger.

A 4231 mid-block with a focus on counter attacking is a simple style and as a result can be implemented easily & get you results. However it also has a hard ceiling in terms of how man points you can expect to get, and in an era where you need to aim for 90 points at the start of the season, each and every year, simply to be in a title race, that mid-block counter attacking style isn't going to win you any titles.

We've tried under Ole and ETH to start out with this approach and then build on top of it. In both cases it didn't work out. So what Amorim has said several times is that we're going to to start out with what he believes to be the right principles, even it means we go backwards in the short term, so that we're in a better position next season and the season after.

That doesn't mean Amorim's approach is a guaranteed hit, but I can understand the logic in simply starting as you mean to go on. The only way to find out if this is indeed the best approach is to wait and see what happens.

But with that rationale, which applies context and reason rather than just bleating out numbers from the league table, they won't be able to stomp about like a bunch of disgruntled children in a toy store. There's pages and pages of drivel in this thread that just amount to "but daddy, I want an oompa loompa now!" Don't deprive them of that they seem to enjoy it.

 

[Kayla40TS]

I'm seeing a team who can't score goals, with attackers who massively distort the impression fans have of the current Manchester United. Recruit properly this summer with upgrades on Garnacho and Højlund and suddenly we jump into the top half. Improve on the keeper and one or two other areas on top of that and we're pushing for the Champions League places.

We have some really good players. However, the attack is arguably only bettered by Southampton for how poor it is.

I agree with this. Look how often today we got into the final third and players just stand still and then pass to Bruno. We have no other creativity at the sharp end. No bravery, either.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

He also has been actively benching the guy who actually played CM for him at Lisbon for 32 year old Casemiro too.

He did that once today because we have by far the most important match of the season coming up in a few days' time. I cannot fathom how this is difficult to understand.

 

[tjb]

I want him to stay as I feel as a personality, he's shown the type of character that a manager at the club should have. Its a trait that is highly undervalued by fans, but is important for a club with the cultural significance that we have.

Saying all this, I also like that fans have started asking questions and putting some pressure. Make no mistake, the results and performances have not been good enough, regardless of the excuses. However, I also feel that we have a few specific flaws that if fixed can catapult us to challenging for the league. At present, I think the system makes us worse than we are due to certain players being ill-suited to it, but with time and the right players, it could even lead to us punching above our weight.

The fundamental issue that we have so far is out inability to play out of the back. When we do or play long direct balls that connect, its quite smooth how we get into the opposition final third, however we don't do it enough because we're either spending ages trying to play out of the back or we're struggling to deal with the press. If we are able to fix this issue with a combination of training and new personnel, we would automatically become one of the hardest teams to beat, because our structure and defensive shape are quite good.

The second key issue, makes the first issue even worse for us. We are one of, if not, the least athletic team in the league. We have slow aging players paired with players who simply never had the athleticism to do well. This is a particular issue in midfield. What makes it even worse is that the system actually requires athleticism in the midfield areas to function effectively, as there are only 2 central midfielders. This requires the level of fitness and stamina that 442's had in the 2000s, yet we may be the most ill-suited team to this in the modern game at present. The combination of consistently losing athletic duels and not being able to play out of the back consistently, lead to us being stuck in our half far more that we should be.

The third and final problem we have affects our attack. We don't have dynamic players in the front 3 combined with the lack of a finisher of any sort. Teams that feed off scraps still have the benefit of being able to put in a cross or have a long ball in which their strikers can exploit. They have the benefit of having a striker in the right place or that can shoot. In this system, like Liverpools, since the front 3 isn't supported, it requires the 3 members of the front 3 to carry the attack mostly on their own. Meaning, they need to dribble, combine, create and know how to score. Amad (and Bruno at 10) are currently the only attackers in the entire club that can do those things. Mount, Hojlund, Zirkzee and Garnacho rely heavily on the work of others. The jury is still out on Mainoo on this, and Mount has shown glimpses( which is why I would keep him.

The thing with these issues is that I don't think the cost of actually fixing it is as much as people think. For building out from the back, Yoro, De Ligt, Mazraoui, Heaven, Fredickson are actually not bad or that slow. The issue presents itself in midfield due to our midfield either not having the energy or touch to work with the pressure of the league. Bruno can, but doesn't always have the defensive discipline, which may come in time. Signing a DM that can receive the ball would massively help. Ugarte acclamitizing to the league would too. But I also feel that Amorim having the time to construct specific patterns might also make it more automatic and buy our players some time on the ball, heavily reducing turnover. Energy in midfield is also sorted out by signing a DM. As neither Erikson or Casemiro have the requisite energy to be useful in midfield, and Ugarte struggles with the touch for now. I also think within the squad, players like Collyer and Kone may eventually proven useful. Mainoo may also adapt to the intensity required in the midfield 2 over time, but we can't afford to take that bet at the moment.

Finally in attack, we need drivers. Amad has that, Bruno has that, Mainoo over time may have this too but we need more. Cunha is perfect for this. We need a no.9 that can actually threaten the opposition without Bruno holding their hand. Our investments should primarily be in 3 positions, DM/CM, AM and ST. If we can get cheap young options and wing back and GK those would be helpful, but shouldn't be the priority.

 

[Kayla40TS]

He also has been actively benching the guy who actually played CM for him at Lisbon for 32 year old Casemiro too.

Ugarte started both legs against Lyon. Clearly being managed to make sure he's available against Europa league opponents when we need him there.

He did that once today because we have by far the most important match of the season coming up in a few days' time. I cannot fathom how this is difficult to understand.

Exactly.

 

[NZT-One]

The point is just one player scoring fairly regularly equals results. As a response to those thinking we need a whole new squad or something.

No question about it. But isn't that kind of obvious? And I don't think, anybody on here is saying we need to re-do the whole squad. But we have to make some serious chances. I'd be worried if we only bring in a striker because that might mean, that we accept the football we play right now but make it more bearable by scoring a few more. It will change results, no doubts, but it isn't changing the course we are on for quite some time. (That went downhill for most of the trip...)

• Amad played at wingback and did great v Ipswich, then again in a 3-0 win over Everton.

• After that we played Arsenal away and he benched Amad to play 2 full backs at WB.

• The following game it was Amad at WB again v Forest.

• Then City and two fullbacks again (Amad at 10).

• V Spurs two fullbacks and Amad benched.

• v Bournemouth and two fullbacks (Amad at 10)

• v Wolves it’s two fullbacks again (Amad at 10)

• v Newcastle it’s the same story

• v Liverpool same same

• v Arsenal it’s fullbaks and Amad benched


FINALLY, after a tonne of shit results Amad plays again at WB and scores a hat trick at home to Southampton.

• The following game is away, where we lose to Brighton with two fullbacks and Amad back at 10.

• it’s Fulham and two fullbacks

• Leicester now and Dorgu is in, with Amad at 10.


Then comes the injury right?

So despite us looking better with Amad at RWB, he played just 4 times there as the manager time and time again preferred more defensive players there. Even after scoring a hat trick from wingback he immediately moved him to accommodate more defensive players for the following games.

The good results couldn't be connected with the opposition?

Amad looks good out wide because he is a player with great technique and game intelligence. He is up against Dalot or Maz out there so just because of attacking intent and willingness he is bound to look good there. I think, a player with Amads abilities would be seriously wasted out right, and I guess, thats what the coaching team thinks as well. Obviously that doesn't make it the unquestionable right decision but I think, there is a rationale behind it. I personally don't understand why Amorim doesn't Garnacho there - he likes to be out wide and his dribbling is alright for that.

 

[Remember the geese]

• Amad played at wingback and did great v Ipswich, then again in a 3-0 win over Everton.

• After that we played Arsenal away and he benched Amad to play 2 full backs at WB.

• The following game it was Amad at WB again v Forest.

• Then City and two fullbacks again (Amad at 10).

• V Spurs two fullbacks and Amad benched.

• v Bournemouth and two fullbacks (Amad at 10)

• v Wolves it’s two fullbacks again (Amad at 10)

• v Newcastle it’s the same story

• v Liverpool same same

• v Arsenal it’s fullbaks and Amad benched


FINALLY, after a tonne of shit results Amad plays again at WB and scores a hat trick at home to Southampton.

• The following game is away, where we lose to Brighton with two fullbacks and Amad back at 10.

• it’s Fulham and two fullbacks

• Leicester now and Dorgu is in, with Amad at 10.


Then comes the injury right?

So despite us looking better with Amad at RWB, he played just 4 times there as the manager time and time again preferred more defensive players there, despite our results getting worse. Even after scoring a hat trick from wingback he immediately moved him to accommodate more defensive players for the following games.

It’s been my gripe the whole time with the system.
I’m all in if it’s 3 defenders with two sitting mids in front, wingers as wingbacks and two number 10’s… feck yeah.
But Amorim time & time again has chosen the much more defensive option of 5 defenders as his default.

So Amorim has alternated between using Amad at wing-back and at 10? That's fine. Amorim has played Quenda, a winger, at wing-back during his time at Sporting. He even wanted to bring him here to replicate that. It isn't a defensive position in Amorim's system. The problem is that Amad is/was our only real attacking option at wing-back. Therefore, on the occasion we have wanted Amad in the 10 position, the profile of the player replacing him was a fullback. The lack of options creates a false impression. We obviously intend to sign Cunha to play alongside Fernandes next season. Amad at wing-back looks like the likely outcome.

 

[Gavinb33]

I agree to a point. I would say we cannot pass out from the back at all........even when we are NOT under pressure.

The time it takes us to pass us along our back line, back and forth, back and forth, then.......to a wingback who then passes it back to one of our back three..................it only encourages and invites pressure from the opposition.

When that pressure inevitably comes then we cannot handle it. The spaces that existed for a few seconds have been squeezed out by the press and either we lose the ball with a hurried pass or we play a hopeful pass straight to the opposition.

I am still on board with Amorim but I certinaly don't think he walks on water.

There are many many times when the pass is on from defence into midfield and for some reason we are just not taking it. Either the players are repeatedly not following orders or the manager is not correcting them.

Exactly this, maybe I was being too kind but yeah our passing from defense is terrible pressed or not pressed it's slow and predictable and safe, so either he wants them to be more proactive with their passing and they can't which means they'll need to be replaced or he is coaching them to play the way they have been

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

I want him to stay as I feel as a personality, he's shown the type of character that a manager at the club should have. Its a trait that is highly undervalued by fans, but is important for a club with the cultural significance that we have.

Saying all this, I also like that fans have started asking questions and putting some pressure. Make no mistake, the results and performances have not been good enough, regardless of the excuses. However, I also feel that we have a few specific flaws that if fixed can catapult us to challenging for the league. At present, I think the system makes us worse than we are due to certain players being ill-suited to it, but with time and the right players, it could even lead to us punching above our weight.

The fundamental issue that we have so far is out inability to play out of the back. When we do or play long direct balls that connect, its quite smooth how we get into the opposition final third, however we don't do it enough because we're either spending ages trying to play out of the back or we're struggling to deal with the press. If we are able to fix this issue with a combination of training and new personnel, we would automatically become one of the hardest teams to beat, because our structure and defensive shape are quite good.

The second key issue, makes the first issue even worse for us. We are one of, if not, the least athletic team in the league. We have slow aging players paired with players who simply never had the athleticism to do well. This is a particular issue in midfield. What makes it even worse is that the system actually requires athleticism in the midfield areas to function effectively, as there are only 2 central midfielders. This requires the level of fitness and stamina that 442's had in the 2000s, yet we may be the most ill-suited team to this in the modern game at present. The combination of consistently losing athletic duels and not being able to play out of the back consistently, lead to us being stuck in our half far more that we should be.

The third and final problem we have affects our attack. We don't have dynamic players in the front 3 combined with the lack of a finisher of any sort. Teams that feed off scraps still have the benefit of being able to put in a cross or have a long ball in which their strikers can exploit. They have the benefit of having a striker in the right place or that can shoot. In this system, like Liverpools, since the front 3 isn't supported, it requires the 3 members of the front 3 to carry the attack mostly on their own. Meaning, they need to dribble, combine, create and know how to score. Amad (and Bruno at 10) are currently the only attackers in the entire club that can do those things. Mount, Hojlund, Zirkzee and Garnacho rely heavily on the work of others. The jury is still out on Mainoo on this, and Mount has shown glimpses( which is why I would keep him.

The thing with these issues is that I don't think the cost of actually fixing it is as much as people think. For building out from the back, Yoro, De Ligt, Mazraoui, Heaven, Fredickson are actually not bad or that slow. The issue presents itself in midfield due to our midfield either not having the energy or touch to work with the pressure of the league. Bruno can, but doesn't always have the defensive discipline, which may come in time. Signing a DM that can receive the ball would massively help. Ugarte acclamitizing to the league would too. But I also feel that Amorim having the time to construct specific patterns might also make it more automatic and buy our players some time on the ball, heavily reducing turnover. Energy in midfield is also sorted out by signing a DM. As neither Erikson or Casemiro have the requisite energy to be useful in midfield, and Ugarte struggles with the touch for now. I also think within the squad, players like Collyer and Kone may eventually proven useful. Mainoo may also adapt to the intensity required in the midfield 2 over time, but we can't afford to take that bet at the moment.

Finally in attack, we need drivers. Amad has that, Bruno has that, Mainoo over time may have this too but we need more. Cunha is perfect for this. We need a no.9 that can actually threaten the opposition without Bruno holding their hand. Our investments should primarily be in 3 positions, DM/CM, AM and ST. If we can get cheap young options and wing back and GK those would be helpful, but shouldn't be the priority.

Yes. He's the third full time manager running to have this issue.

 

[Eugenius]

Ugarte started both legs against Lyon. Clearly being managed to make sure he's available against Europa league opponents when we need him there.

Exactly.

Looks to me today we played a full strength XI. I would expect everyone else to start. Ugarte has also been routinely taken off before Casemiro, the latter playing the 120 mins against Lyon for example.

 

[surf]

His formation and selections have been too defensive, leading to too many insipid draws, or defeats, in games against mid or lower table teams that we should be able to beat.

Also wonder about the coaching - has he actually improved any of the players? Why didn't he get Rashford firing again? Where was the new manager bounce?

The only way he gets a passing grade for the season is if he wins Europa.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Last season we fluked some wins and generally overperformed our xG. Under Amorim we are often underperforming it instead. Name me a manager that can stop Onana gifting goals and who can turn Højlund into a PL level striker.

A win is a win however you get it and its not like most of Amorim's 6 league wins so far havent been flukes, this team finished 8th last season while ravaged by injuries and added more re-enforcemants last summer so there is absolutely no excuse for them to be finishing in the bottom half this year.

ETH 's goalkeeping coach had Onana on the right track at the start of the season and he was keeping clean sheets in a lot of games but then Amorim came in a made the stupid decision to sack that goalkeeping coach and appoint his own which destroyed Onana's form.

Hojlund is a poir striker but did still manage to score 16 goals under ETH last season.

 

[witchtrials]

Amorim won’t go for that, he wouldn’t allow RVN as one of his coaches as he wanted his own people and forcing him to have someone as an assistant will most likely create a ticking time bomb.

To be fair this was at his moment of maximum confidence when he probably felt like he was just going to swagger into Old Trafford and locate the win switch.

I agree it's still very unlikely though - more of a hypothetical question about whether the lack of top level experience in the coaching staff is costing us.

 

[pocco]

His formation and selections have been too defensive, leading to too many insipid draws, or defeats, in games against mid or lower table teams that we should be able to beat.

Also wonder about the coaching - has he actually improved any of the players? Why didn't he get Rashford firing again? Where was the new manager bounce?

The only way he gets a passing grade for the season is if he wins Europa.

He’s improved a few and got decent levels out of others who were perhaps doing ok under ETH.

Amad
Dalot
Maguire
Mazraoui
De Ligt
Yoro
Casemiro
Bruno
Ugarte
Garnacho maybe?
Zirkzee

Not saying they’re all world beaters, but by their own standards they’ve been ok

 

[Cassidy]

ETH 's goalkeeping coach had Onana on the right track at the start of the season and he was keeping clean sheets in a lot of games but then Amorim came in a made the stupid decision to sack that goalkeeping coach and appoint his own which destroyed Onana's form.

Now we are trying to blame Onana being shite on Amorim. Come on man

 

[AndySmith1990]

He’s improved a few and got decent levels out of others who were perhaps doing ok under ETH.

Amad
Dalot
Maguire
Mazraoui
De Ligt
Yoro
Casemiro
Bruno
Ugarte
Garnacho maybe?
Zirkzee

So he's improved 11 players and yet the team is worse than ever. Doesn't add up

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

This has been happening for a while, with other managers too. I often watch better teams picking these passes and watch us and think, the other team would have played the pass through there.

Yep. I don't get it either.

Even Onana can contribute to this passage of play by releasing the ball early to a wingback who might be free but he doesn't. Instead we pass it around in this treacle and tar zone for an eternity and then act surprised when we get pressed.

Or we boot it up to Hojlund and expect him to do something with it.

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

Exactly this, maybe I was being too kind but yeah our passing from defense is terrible pressed or not pressed it's slow and predictable and safe, so either he wants them to be more proactive with their passing and they can't which means they'll need to be replaced or he is coaching them to play the way they have been

There was a passage of play with Bouremouth today where their GK has the ball in his hands, chucks it out to the left back (no real press from us) and he's running past our halfway line looking for passing options. It looks so easy and we are continuing to look like it's really complicated.

 

[Dion]

Not according to this:

You can see it clearly here, same on xT too.

The game was dead even when the red card happened, and that was with us slowly getting back into it after conceding, which is known to skewe xG a bit too.

 

[IWat]

Because we, thankfully, are going to give him a fair crack of it and so we bloody well should!

So was Amorim incorrect when he said the following?

"We know that we need time, but we have to win time. To win time is to win games,"

 

[SER19]

I actually see patterns, but we're not good at any of the basics, making the system largely redundant.

The biggest thing is the centre backs passing between the lines and midfielders being able to take the ball on the half-turn.

None of the centre-backs do this, so teams just press at will and we can't get out.

Why though? Yoro can do this. De Ligt and Martinez can do this (albeit injured now). Mainoo, Fernandes, Casemiro are all more than capable of doing this. It just doesnt look right to me. Look at Bournemouths press versus ours. Then look at how they play versus the press compared to us. This has to be coaching. We cant keep pretending every team has far better players than us - they dont. We have glaring holes but so do bournemouth.

Why can Alex Scott and Tyler bloody Adams do what Mainoo and Casemiro seemingly cant?

 

[Gavinb33]

There was a passage of play with Bouremouth today where their GK has the ball in his hands, chucks it out to the left back (no real press from us) and he's running past our halfway line looking for passing options. It looks so easy and we are continuing to look like it's really complicated.

Dont even get me started on our pressing it's fecking laughable I am not even sure you can call it pressing

 

[Remember the geese]

So was Amorim incorrect when he said the following?

"We know that we need time, but we have to win time. To win time is to win games,"

Well he wasn't going to tell us all that he expects three years minimum guaranteed. What he's saying is just pure common sense. However, he is entitled to a certain amount of time. You and I could debate how long that should be. For me, he's absolutely entitled to be here come August.

 

[Mike Smalling]

A win is a win however you get it and its not like most of Amorim's 6 league wins so far havent been flukes, this team finished 8th last season while ravaged by injuries and added more re-enforcemants last summer so there is absolutely no excuse for them to be finishing in the bottom half this year.

The manager has no say in whether our team or the opposition team take the chances that are created. Fluking a win is not a sign of good management, which is the point of looking at analyses such as xG. Similarly, it's not really Amorim's fault that we don't take our chances. The fact is that various xG analyses have us deserving around 40-45 points last season. It wasn't sustainable, which we are seeing this year. And while we have added reinforcements, the ones that are worth anything have been defensive (De Ligt, Mazraoui, Ugarte), so it doesn't solve the core issue of not being able to score goals.

ETH 's goalkeeping coach had Onana on the right track at the start of the season and he was keeping clean sheets in a lot of games but then Amorim came in a made the stupid decision to sack that goalkeeping coach and appoint his own which destroyed Onana's form.

This is some next level grasping at straws. How fecking frail do you have to be as a goalkeeper that you instantly turn to shit, because a coach is changed? And how does it account for Onana being terrible last season as well?

The bottom line is that there is simply no way ETH would have us significantly higher in the table if we kept him this season. For next season it might be the right decision to find a new manager (who knows) but without serious investment in the forward line that manager will struggle mightily as well, no matter who it is.

 

[tjb]

Yes. He's the third full time manager running to have this issue.

I don't think Ole was actually trying to have us do that.

Ten Haag did, but in terms of player profile, I genuinely don't think he understood the league. The speed required did not work well with his ultra fluidity set up. In addition, he made the criminal mistake of underestimating the physicality needed in the league and this underestimation is the reason we moved down from a top4/5/6 team to where we are now.

What I also think is different is that the back 3 being employed by Amorim requires positioning and understanding that I don't think our defensive unit have really had an opportunity to understand. When you add that we do not have any midfielders outside of Bruno that can take the ball from the defence themselves, it leaves us constantly in a state of being pressured.

Amorim himself may also need to take the time to adjust his primary build up pattern, as there is the chance that its ill-suited for the pace of the league.

 

[Eugenius]

He’s improved a few and got decent levels out of others who were perhaps doing ok under ETH.

Amad
Dalot
Maguire
Mazraoui
De Ligt
Yoro
Casemiro
Bruno
Ugarte
Garnacho maybe?
Zirkzee

Not saying they’re all world beaters, but by their own standards they’ve been ok

You've named players who played about 10 games under EtH this season only. You might as well put Dorgu on that list as well.

Amad and Maguire have improved certainly. Although I'm not sure if your system is getting the best out of Maguire that's something to be elated about.

Casemiro is better vs last year, although was weirdly underused by Amorim until recently, especially when Ruud showed just play him a double pivot and tighten up and he's still fine.

Dalot looks worse as a WB. He looked better as an inverting conventional FB.
Mazraoui ditto - was great earlier in the season and probably our best player, now just looks slightly out of place and better at RCB.

Garnacho is definitely worse as a 10. In fact, last season since Ineos came in and briefed everyone was for sale except the youngsters last season (Hojlund, Garnacho, Mainoo)... They've all regressed under Amorim and it seems like he's not really been too fussed if they sell them.

Bruno is Bruno. If anything I think the levels he is achieving this season is in spite of him being shunted between #8 and a wide 10.

 

[Deanor44]

I have tried not to blame RA for the absolute Sh*t show that this club has become but I have no doubt whatsoever that he is a dead man walking. He just needs to loose two games early next season and the performances from this season will be brought up and used as a stick to beat him with. I have stopped watching games regularly this season as this squad is not equipped to cope with the premier league. We lack energy, physicality & athletes throughout the teamand until that is rectified it is a rinse and repeat act. The level is so low now that recruitment should be focused on getting decent hungry athletes who will be 6 or 7 out of 10 most weeks for just running alone until the rot has stopped. Until that downward trajectory is stopped nothing is going to change. People talking about buying players who the top clubs are after and challenging are on cloud cuckoo land!

 

[pocco]

So he's improved 11 players and yet the team is worse than ever. Doesn't add up

I’m not going to lie, it is odd. I mean, do you disagree with any of those names? I think the issue is that a) they’re not all that great even if they’re playing to their ability, b) we have one attacker in Amad who has improved, but he’s sat the majority of it out. The rest are just not delivering. That’s a problem no matter the manager or the system. And c) injuries haven’t helped.

We’ve also changed the system and whilst some of these players can do a job in certain positions, the key areas still need addressing (WB, CM, 10s and CF). We have 2 or 3 CMs who are doing ok (Ugarte and Case) and Bruno has been great, but between them there’s not really a balanced pairing. The former two both lack in key areas.

 

[Marwood]

So he's improved 11 players and yet the team is worse than ever. Doesn't add up

It's because one particular area of the team is worse. The attack. It renders any other improvement as almost pointless in terms of results. The team isn't worse than ever. The attack is.

Although this whole thing of improving individuals is something I don't agree with anyway. You put players together who make sense. That's how you get the best out of them

 

[pocco]

You've named players who played about 10 games under EtH this season only. You might as well put Dorgu on that list as well.

Amad and Maguire have improved certainly. Although I'm not sure if your system is getting the best out of Maguire that's something to be elated about.

Casemiro is better vs last year, although was weirdly underused by Amorim until recently, especially when Ruud showed just play him a double pivot and tighten up and he's still fine.

Dalot looks worse as a WB. He looked better as an inverting conventional FB.
Mazraoui ditto - was great earlier in the season and probably our best player, now just looks slightly out of place and better at RCB.

Garnacho is definitely worse as a 10. In fact, last season since Ineos came in and briefed everyone was for sale except the youngsters last season (Hojlund, Garnacho, Mainoo)... They've all regressed under Amorim and it seems like he's not really been too fussed if they sell them.

Bruno is Bruno. If anything I think the levels he is achieving this season is in spite of him being shunted between #8 and a wide 10.

They’re all playing better than when he first arrived, so he’s improved them all by definition. I’m on the fence with Garnacho under Ruud/ETH vs Amorim, but he’s improved slowly into the new system at least. He’s still a square peg but he’s been better recently.

I think it’s clear that Amorim has improved Bruno. You can just see he’s asked him to be a more controlled player and try less lower percentage passes, which is obvious given the tactical plan of Amorim vs ETH and Ole who encouraged that (and many grew tired of his wastefulness). I think this is the best version of Bruno that we’ve had. Amorim has to take credit, there is a clear correlation between the changes to Bruno’s game and the changes in the way Amorim wants to play.

 

[Stig]

The fundamental issue that we have so far is out inability to play out of the back.

You do know that it's not a rule. If you can't do it, you are allowed to try other tactics.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

A win is a win however you get it and its not like most of Amorim's 6 league wins so far havent been flukes, this team finished 8th last season while ravaged by injuries and added more re-enforcemants last summer so there is absolutely no excuse for them to be finishing in the bottom half this year.

ETH 's goalkeeping coach had Onana on the right track at the start of the season and he was keeping clean sheets in a lot of games but then Amorim came in a made the stupid decision to sack that goalkeeping coach and appoint his own which destroyed Onana's form.

Hojlund is a poir striker but did still manage to score 16 goals under ETH last season.

So Onana’s form and errors is Amorim’s fault? It is not because Onana is a shit goalkeeper?

 

[Superunknown]

Amad, Garnacho, and Bruno are our biggest goal threats. One of our biggest issues is that we have spent lots of money on players who were meant to be a big part of our attack, and they just haven't delivered or are currently out on loan elsewhere. Sancho, Rashford and Antony should be starting every game for us and should be huge players week in week out. That's essentially a starting front 3 out on loan, which is a lot to miss. There's a gaping hole where our attack should be.

I'm interested to see who we target this summer and then bring in, and just what exactly Amorim plans to do with them. At the moment, we're stretched to the limit and when players are being carried, it makes it really hard to compete. There's too many games where it doesn't feel like 11 players are on the field. More like 9. Sometimes even 8.