Hojlund having a terrible 2nd year isn't Amorim's fault. The player himself has simply and. consistently not been good enough.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
-
Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Hojlund having a terrible 2nd year isn't Amorim's fault. The player himself has simply and. consistently not been good enough.
Correct, how can the club trust him to lead any kind of rebuild when he hasnt he hasnt got any kind of decent performance out of the players he has got already?
Which is exactly why it's naïve to think next season will be much different to what we're seeing now. We're either going to have to put up with this dour football for 3-4 years until the entire squad is his own, or he's going to have to improve players who are already here, which so far he hasn't shown he's capable of
People are going to be so upset when Dalot lines up as our RWB next season. I do think a new LWB is essential though. Dorgu to be cover for both sides.
I think we'll be fine at RWB. Amad is quality. If he is unavailable, Dalot isn't a terrible deputy. Apparently Mantato will be given opportunities too.
Much to the surprise of others, I think we have some good players. If you add four or five signings to Yoro, De Ligt, Mazraoui, Ugarte, Amad, Fernandes etc, then you have a pretty good side.
Oh I completely agree. I don’t think much will change at all. We will probably just about win more than we lose, maybe.
I think some need to get over the idea that playing as a wing-back is some sort of punishment. It isn't. He'll be playing high up the pitch, creating chances and scoring goals.
I’ll believe it when I see it, Amorim still seems to prefer two fullbacks playing deeper even when Amad was fit and had done well there.
We arent even winning anywhere near the amount we are losing now, qw have an embarrasing and abysmul return of only 6 wins from 23 league games under this guy
I still rate a lot of our players too but we are getting worse as it stands.
I don’t know what the right decision is, but it would be kind of ridiculous to never give him a chance with proper quality up front. At least he is blameless when it comes to having assembled this mess (except for Dorgu, who was a fairly cheap stopgap).
Onana, Garnacho and Højlund upgrades and we'll be much better off.
In our formation they are as important and expected to be as creative as the 10’s. Amad has shown he can do that more when he’s played there in my opinion.
The elephant in the room is the centre backs and midfield, I mean we cannot pass out from the back when pressed and our defenders can't get the ball through the lines into midfield, everyone thinks a striker magically fixes this I don't know if they're watching the same matches I am
Yeah, completely disagree with that opinion.
I'm with you there.
We are most definitely more organised now and we don’t see sides stroll through our midfield at will. We have better control and I don’t get the feeling we will concede every time the opposition attacks. These points all suggest progress.
However, due to our more pragmatic system this also means we barely look like scoring. As mentioned we desperately need attacking wing backs that are constantly asking the opposition questions. We also need a proper centre forward that has great movement. Every time Chido comes on he has opportunities due to his understanding and movement in stark comparison to Hojland.
We also need players that can move the ball forward quicker and AM’s that can receive the ball and turn.
A lot to improve but I do believe we are moving in the right direction- all be it far slower than I’d hope.
However, due to our more pragmatic system this also means we barely look like scoring. As mentioned we desperately need attacking wing backs that are constantly asking the opposition questions. We also need a proper centre forward that has great movement. Every time Chido comes on he has opportunities due to his understanding and movement in stark comparison to Hojland.
We also need players that can move the ball forward quicker and AM’s that can receive the ball and turn.
A lot to improve but I do believe we are moving in the right direction- all be it far slower than I’d hope.
I’m in two minds, I mean, absolutely I agree with the sentiment, but feck me, we’re all gonna go fecking mental at the club for being stupid as feck and messing up another season if we keep him on and it remains shite.
There’s not just warning signs, he literally has us bottom of the table if the 3 promoted/now demoted teams were removed from the league.
No a couple of goalscorers can make a huge difference. It doesn't need a whole new squad to make considerable progress.
I posted stats earlier in the thread but when Rasmus scores we pick up points. There's a direct link.
Honestly, if one of the WBs was more of a conventional winger or wide forward, then I feel the system looks way more attacking. Both WBs as attackers against weaker sides, and it could be exciting.
This has been discussed to death, but as a reminder - the rationale here is that we're trying to build a team capable of competing at the top, not an occasional top 4/5 challenger.
A 4231 mid-block with a focus on counter attacking is a simple style and as a result can be implemented easily & get you results. However it also has a hard ceiling in terms of how man points you can expect to get, and in an era where you need to aim for 90 points at the start of the season, each and every year, simply to be in a title race, that mid-block counter attacking style isn't going to win you any titles.
We've tried under Ole and ETH to start out with this approach and then build on top of it. In both cases it didn't work out. So what Amorim has said several times is that we're going to to start out with what he believes to be the right principles, even it means we go backwards in the short term, so that we're in a better position next season and the season after.
That doesn't mean Amorim's approach is a guaranteed hit, but I can understand the logic in simply starting as you mean to go on. The only way to find out if this is indeed the best approach is to wait and see what happens.
Whether next season is messed up largely depends on what we do in the transfer market. If we continue with the likes of Højlund, Antony and Zirkzee for attacking reinforcements, we will be bottom half again, whether we are managed by Amorim or someone else.
Amorim won’t go for that, he wouldn’t allow RVN as one of his coaches as he wanted his own people and forcing him to have someone as an assistant will most likely create a ticking time bomb.
We didn’t lose Rashford or Antony, they were told they had no place in the squad so were loaned out to other clubs and in Rashford’s case him and Amorim fell out big time. We were already awful and losing most weeks when Amad got injured and Amorim wanted a left wing back ahead of any other position.
What will the excuses be when Amorim is given Cunha and a striker ? He’s still going to play the same system with effectively a back 7 and zero width and have the same tactical approach of passing backwards and sideways before losing the ball.
It worked at Sporting because it’s a league where only three teams ever win the league much like in Holland where ETH excelled but he can’t even improve the players he has here and some how managed to make us worse, this is the problem at the club in we go from coach to coach all with different preferences formation and tactics wise so need overhaul after overhaul due to the following coach needing players to fit their system.
I absolutely know it can't happen but I agree. If we could get hold of someone like Isak then it would transform us, it really would.
We have stopped conceding, in the main, a considerable amount of chances against us but we really do lack a cutting edge and the confidence that we can score goals.
This is incorrect when there are other managers out there that would have this side in the top half, ETH got this side to finish 8th while ravaged by injuries last season.
Was about to make the same point.
Apologies if I’ve missed on prior comments but does anyone have any insight on how our front 3 are coached as a linked triumvirate? Or how our attacking approaches more generally are coached at Carrington?
The front three or four still appear as if they’ve only just met, let alone played with each other before.
Amorim handles the media well but he never really addresses an actual solution for our complete absence of potency/cohesion/evidence of training ideas in the attack. It’s the most soul destroying element of all the many things that are wrong.
I would like to know if anyone can shed light on what is being attempted on the training ground or in games, that shows how his system aids the attack. We have sh!t players yes, though I’m bewildered on what is being attempted under his system.
Hard to argue when we don't know who comes in and out this window, I don't deal with hypotheticals, we can discuss this come after the transfer window. We can also discuss this if we see a back 7 with zero width next year, because it's IFS and BUTS
At this point, after this game, anyone who still blames Amorim is just blind.
Imagine how much bleating there'd be for him to take over if he was still here and the last anyone had seen of him as a manager was heroically dispatching Leicester and whatever dross we played in the Europa that week.
You keep saying this, and I can understand it a little, but we still don’t create enough regardless of who is up top. Teams will just nullify our CF and we are shafted. There is no plan B. No cohesive attacking play, just bland, poor football.
His system is not good enough for this league as it’s too static and easy to play against. Can’t remember the last time we carved a team open in the league.
I’d love to be wrong about him, but I doubt I will. If we start next season with him and this system we are not doing much above 13th/14th in the league.
This is the million dollar question, what do we actually do on the training field?? It makes my head boggle.
What you seeing pal? I’ve watched every minute of his era here and not seen anything consistent that makes me think he can get us mid table, let alone higher.
Sounds like world-shattering news. So you say, there is a connection between goals and points? Damn man, thats some deep stuff. Whats next, when you end a game with more goals than the other team, you tend to get 3 points more often?
100% behind Amorim, he's doing a good job we got much more control in games. We just have a shocking attack, amongst a number of other player issues. This City vs Forest game is illuminating into our league. Forest are absolute dogshit, but still almost equalised when it was 1-0. Similar has happened to us multiple times this season where 1 piece of sunday league defending leads to a goal and we can't get one back because our forwards are a bit shocking.
I agree to a point. I would say we cannot pass out from the back at all........even when we are NOT under pressure.
The time it takes us to pass us along our back line, back and forth, back and forth, then.......to a wingback who then passes it back to one of our back three..................it only encourages and invites pressure from the opposition.
When that pressure inevitably comes then we cannot handle it. The spaces that existed for a few seconds have been squeezed out by the press and either we lose the ball with a hurried pass or we play a hopeful pass straight to the opposition.
I am still on board with Amorim but I certinaly don't think he walks on water.
There are many many times when the pass is on from defence into midfield and for some reason we are just not taking it. Either the players are repeatedly not following orders or the manager is not correcting them.
Creating chances and putting them away is a self reinforcing process. If other attackers know Hojlund can't put away his chances, they are less likely to prioritize getting him the ball. And lets face it, even the best version of Hojlund we've seen at United isn't good enough to get the job done, so imagine having to pass to the floundering, ineffective version. Garnacho, Amad, and Bruno are always going to be incentivized to try to create their own chances, either alone or amongst one another. Once we buy a proper striker that will obviously change because the confidence of feeding them the ball will change.
The point is just one player scoring fairly regularly equals results. As a response to those thinking we need a whole new squad or something.Sounds like world-shattering news. So you say, there is a connection between goals and points? Damn man, thats some deep stuff. Whats next, when you end a game with more goals than the other team, you tend to get 3 points more often?
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm convinced that even if United got Southgate the team would have been better off. Thomas Franck certainly an upgrade.
Both managers would undoubtedly have a ceiling but I still think it would be more competitive then anything we will see under Amorim. His system essentially demands an attacking line full of world class players, there's no fluency to United in possession. Everything is lethargic and predictable. Another manager who doesn't dominate from the midfield.
It's Europa league or for me with this manager. I'll overlook the tactical inefficiencies simply due to the credibility of winning a majority competition in his first season.
Last season we fluked some wins and generally overperformed our xG. Under Amorim we are often underperforming it instead. Name me a manager that can stop Onana gifting goals and who can turn Højlund into a PL level striker.
Also ETH was on track to be in the same position we are in now when he was fired.
Anyway, the point is not whether it’s 8th or 10th or 12th next season. The point is that it will be shit again if we don’t invest properly. I guarantee it.