Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[MCDC]

Garnacho’s ineffectiveness is a symptom of us not having a proper #9 who he can pass the ball to. That causes him to overcompensate by going it alone. Add a proper striker and Garnacho’s runs at the edge of the box will yield better results imo.

I’m sorry Garnacho’s ineffectiveness is due to him having, pathetic decision making.

He is a selfish player, he’s played well over 100 games for United, I have seen no improvement in this time.

He created more at R10 because he can’t use his left foot, I have seen nothing to tell me he is ever going to be the quality required to win the league.

I would sell him in the summer to whoever bids the highest.

 

[Raoul]

I’m sorry Garnacho’s ineffectiveness is due to him having, pathetic decision making.

He is a selfish player, he’s played well over 100 games for United, I have seen no improvement in this time.

He created more at R10 because he can’t use his left foot, I have seen nothing to tell me he is ever going to be the quality required to win the league.

I would sell him in the summer to whoever bids the highest.

I agree that we should consider selling him to generate funds for new transfers, but disagree that it’s all his fault for what has happened recently. Whenever he has a competent #9 to work with, his runs become much more threatening. The main problem is Hojlund’s confidence is shot, which is having a knock on effect on our other attackers.

 

[DJ_21]

Garnacho’s ineffectiveness is a symptom of us not having a proper #9 who he can pass the ball to. That causes him to overcompensate by going it alone. Add a proper striker and Garnacho’s runs at the edge of the box will yield better results imo.

Not sure I agree with this. His decision making is appalling and so is his finishing.

 

[Stobzilla]

I’m sorry Garnacho’s ineffectiveness is due to him having, pathetic decision making.

He is a selfish player, he’s played well over 100 games for United, I have seen no improvement in this time.

He created more at R10 because he can’t use his left foot, I have seen nothing to tell me he is ever going to be the quality required to win the league.

I would sell him in the summer to whoever bids the highest.

Agreed. the Hojlund/lack of a coherent 9 thing is hogwash. The only 9 that has been worth a damn since Garnacho's breakthrough was last years Hojlund.

If Hojlunds confidence is shot, which I am not convinced it necessarily is, then maybe not getting the ball in easy tap in situations as a result of putrid decisions made by Garnacho, amongst others is contributing to that.

Holland has his own problems; it is just mind-blowing to start blaming other players' shortcomings on him as well.

 

[Shark]

I’m fairness, he hasn’t had the benefit of a fit squad, a summer transfer window and a full summer of training. Next year will be make or break imo, and I think even Amorim himself has said something similar in the past.

Of course, I'm in no way disputing that the man needs a strike force for one. He's been dealt Zirkzee and Hojilund. I'm not sure there's a manager on the planet who could get these two firing, and you'd hope that adding even one genuine striker will make a difference.

 

[MCDC]

I agree that we should consider selling him to generate funds for new transfers, but disagree that it’s all his fault for what has happened recently. Whenever he has a competent #9 to work with, his runs become much more threatening. The main problem is Hojlund’s confidence is shot, which is having a knock on effect on our other attackers.

I think his inability to pass for teammates, particularly ignoring Dorgu, making that run as a couple of times would of been a tap in for Hojlund or Zirkzee, but he shoots.

I wouldn’t mind if his shots were challenging the goalkeeper, they are either high and wide or lack conviction.

A proper ST would assist him in creating space, but even when Hojlund was scoring goals last season in that purple patch, he still chose to shoot than create, I just think this is the player he is and he isn’t going to change, and needs to play in a counter attacking team that suits his strengths.

As he lacks the all round qualities to play in a dominant football side.

 

[NZT-One]

Have missed the PK, any mention of what that Lindelof sub was about?

 

[Raoul]

Not sure I agree with this. His decision making is appalling and so is his finishing.

Garnacho and Amad more or less have the same amount of goals this year. Neither will reach their true potential without a competent striker to work with. Bad decision making is simply a result of lack of options to cross ball to and having to instead improvise by running at defenders and getting a bad shot off.

 

[Marwood]

We're at a point again where the sentiment is that if you give the manager what he wants we'll be flying. I've seen this movie before, but we just have to hope we've rolled the dice enough times that we land on a winner. We live in hope.

But I think it's beyond sentiment at this point. We all objectively know for sure this manager needs a bunch of new players up top.

 

[Eugenius]

We're at a point again where the sentiment is that if you give the manager what he wants we'll be flying. I've seen this movie before, but we just have to hope we've rolled the dice enough times that we land on a winner. We live in hope.

I agree with this.

Last few games we have improved, but from a really low base (close to relegation form) and not particularly in a way that bodes well for next season being a big improvement.

I think if you repeated both City (who were there for the taking with that team out) and Forest matches, you basically get the same results both times. We look like we are creating a high volume of low quality chances that we don't look like scoring. It's not like Höjlund and Zirkzee have Nunez and Jackson style compilations of running through on goal and doing silly things, they basically feed on scraps.

We are seeing with Dorgu that it's not even just a case of once we buy players who are suited to the system we will look better. He is showing we need the quality to go with that as well. If the secret sauce to this system is basically to have better players than the opponent, then it doesn't really help much. And who really trusts us to actually buy decent players. It's not like we deliberately go out and buy crap players.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

I agree with this.

Last few games we have improved, but from a really low base (close to relegation form) and not particularly in a way that bodes well for next season being a big improvement.

I think if you repeated both City (who were there for the taking with that team out) and Forest matches, you basically get the same results both times. We look like we are creating a high volume of low quality chances that we don't look like scoring. It's not like Höjlund and Zirkzee have Nunez and Jackson style compilations of running through on goal and doing silly things, they basically feed on scraps.

We are seeing with Dorgu that it's not even just a case of once we buy players who are suited to the system we will look better. He is showing we need the quality to go with that as well. If the secret sauce to this system is basically to have better players than the opponent, then it doesn't really help much. And who really trusts us to actually buy decent players. It's not like we deliberately go out and buy crap players.

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[tomaldinho1]

We're at a point again where the sentiment is that if you give the manager what he wants we'll be flying. I've seen this movie before, but we just have to hope we've rolled the dice enough times that we land on a winner. We live in hope.

100%. The weirder thing this time around is how low the bar for next season will be to compare against.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Is it really that much worse in possession than 3-2-5 with a fullback making the three and the other inverting into midfield?

In this scenario though, the attackers are providing width/penetration and not defenders.

 

[NZT-One]

I agree with this.

Last few games we have improved, but from a really low base (close to relegation form) and not particularly in a way that bodes well for next season being a big improvement.

I think if you repeated both City (who were there for the taking with that team out) and Forest matches, you basically get the same results both times. We look like we are creating a high volume of low quality chances that we don't look like scoring. It's not like Höjlund and Zirkzee have Nunez and Jackson style compilations of running through on goal and doing silly things, they basically feed on scraps.

We are seeing with Dorgu that it's not even just a case of once we buy players who are suited to the system we will look better. He is showing we need the quality to go with that as well. If the secret sauce to this system is basically to have better players than the opponent, then it doesn't really help much. And who really trusts us to actually buy decent players. It's not like we deliberately go out and buy crap players.

Very well said. For me personally, Amorim has entered an ETH zone for now, where the attacking football looks a lot like Ole ball from a few years ago. BUT without the highly talented players to come up with those moments of brilliance. Thats no criticism on Amorim, I get why he does it, he needs us to be a little more stable to have something to build some attacking ideas on. But the notion of "the improvement is right there" is, at least in my eyes, probably a little more hope than actual improvement. Whether he needs more quality in the team or players that fit their roles better, I am not sure. But I think he has to expect not to get all his wishes fulfilled in the summer (I guess), so something has to happen. If we cannot create chances from open play, put more focus on set pieces, force penalties by dribbling into the box, whatever. It is fine not to turn into a chance creation machine in half a year but I, again just personal opinion, am a little worried. Whats safe to say though is that our players seem to get the system by now so they make use of the build-in outball more often. So the system itself should enter a stage where it at least is functional, even though we will have to see whether it will be productive in terms of creating enough chances

 

[Redstain]

I agree with this.

Last few games we have improved, but from a really low base (close to relegation form) and not particularly in a way that bodes well for next season being a big improvement.

I think if you repeated both City (who were there for the taking with that team out) and Forest matches, you basically get the same results both times. We look like we are creating a high volume of low quality chances that we don't look like scoring. It's not like Höjlund and Zirkzee have Nunez and Jackson style compilations of running through on goal and doing silly things, they basically feed on scraps.

We are seeing with Dorgu that it's not even just a case of once we buy players who are suited to the system we will look better. He is showing we need the quality to go with that as well. If the secret sauce to this system is basically to have better players than the opponent, then it doesn't really help much. And who really trusts us to actually buy decent players. It's not like we deliberately go out and buy crap players.

I think this club and the responsibility of the job is far too big for Amorim. That interview with Rio essentially was an affirmation he's out of ideas. There's no real basis to measure even the smallest amount of progression.

I said from a few weeks into his tenure that his approach won't be successful in the long run, he's had no immediate impact. I think it's nonsensical to assume signing a few players will change the teams fortunes. Irrespective of the perception of squad quality, the success of most football clubs hinges on the quality of management. United had one of the most successful managers of all time in charge and fans are perplexed as to why despite money being spent the team is still firing up blank.

United need a quality manager to be successful.

 

[stevoc]

I'm sorry, but this is a load of rubbish. Amad would be playing WB if he was fit; he does not rate Antony (or the club wants to try and recoup from him, and that's fair enough), I won't bother on Rashford, we need to move on with players who want to be at the club.
Garnacho isn't even playing as a no 10 either. The position on the team sheet may read as 10, but he was very much playing as a wide player as usual and the system accommodates for this as Amorim has said plenty of times.

No guarantee he would. He only started there once or twice since mid December up until his injury.

 

[Olecurls99]

I think this club and the responsibility of the job is far too big for Amorim. That interview with Rio essentially was an affirmation he's out of ideas. There's no real basis to measure even the smallest amount of progression.

I said from a few weeks into his tenure that his approach won't be successful in the long run, he's had no immediate impact. I think it's nonsensical to assume signing a few players will change the teams fortunes. Irrespective of the perception of squad quality, the success of most football clubs hinges on the quality of management. United had one of the most successful managers of all time in charge and fans are perplexed as to why despite money being spent the team is still firing up blank.

United need a quality manager to be successful.

Couldn't disagree more. Alex Ferguson, the greatest manager of all time, would not win anything with this lot.

Liverpool are gonna win the league because they've the best players. Arne Slot is not some managerial genius.

 

[DJ_21]

Garnacho and Amad more or less have the same amount of goals this year. Neither will reach their true potential without a competent striker to work with. Bad decision making is simply a result of lack of options to cross ball to and having to instead improvise by running at defenders and getting a bad shot off.

Other players manage it even without proper STs like Saka…

 

[Olecurls99]

Garnacho and Amad more or less have the same amount of goals this year. Neither will reach their true potential without a competent striker to work with. Bad decision making is simply a result of lack of options to cross ball to and having to instead improvise by running at defenders and getting a bad shot off.

Interested in what you make of Liverpool winning the league without a striker. And City after Aguero and before Haaland?

 

[RuudTom83]

The performances are now looking the same week on week. Which is something (I guess) we can use as a base.

I never felt United were going to lose today, and in the balance of play they were the side most likely to find a winner…if they kept playing for a few more hours

But we just have to accept the team isn’t going to make any drastic improvements week on week.

 

[Raoul]

Interested in what you make of Liverpool winning the league without a striker. And City after Aguero and before Haaland?

There are always one offs, especially in situations where you have one of the world's best players involved. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of keeping a young striker who doesn't score a lot of goals. The model we should aspire to is probably similar to what Amorim had with Gyokeres and what we have previously had from RvN to Rooney to RvP to Zlatan and beyond.

 

[Leftback99]

I think this club and the responsibility of the job is far too big for Amorim. That interview with Rio essentially was an affirmation he's out of ideas. There's no real basis to measure even the smallest amount of progression.

I said from a few weeks into his tenure that his approach won't be successful in the long run, he's had no immediate impact. I think it's nonsensical to assume signing a few players will change the teams fortunes. Irrespective of the perception of squad quality, the success of most football clubs hinges on the quality of management. United had one of the most successful managers of all time in charge and fans are perplexed as to why despite money being spent the team is still firing up blank.

United need a quality manager to be successful.

Why aren't City winning the league this season then?

Or are you telling us Slot is better than Pep?

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Things are on the up definitely. You can see and feel solidity now, the only problem is the quality of the players. Bruno played some brilliant balls in today and we had zero quality to finish them off. Thursday is the real test and I think we will see a positive result.

Also feel like the pressure has finally lifted from amorim now as everyone is in the acceptance stage after the international break.

 

[Olecurls99]

There are always one offs, especially in situations where you have one of the world's best players involved. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of keeping a young striker who doesn't score a lot of goals. The model we should aspire to is probably similar to what Amorim had with Gyokeres and what we have previously had from RvN to Rooney to RvP to Zlatan and beyond.

I disagree. I think the notion of anyone needing an old centre forward has been quite clearly put to bed by this stage. We need to sign dangerous, technical, composed attacking players. That's far more important than anything else.

 

[Cassidy]

No guarantee he would. He only started there once or twice since mid December up until his injury.

For the obvious reason that we didn’t have alternative attackers with Antony and Rashford moved on in Jan and Mount getting injured

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I think this club and the responsibility of the job is far too big for Amorim. That interview with Rio essentially was an affirmation he's out of ideas. There's no real basis to measure even the smallest amount of progression.

I said from a few weeks into his tenure that his approach won't be successful in the long run, he's had no immediate impact. I think it's nonsensical to assume signing a few players will change the teams fortunes. Irrespective of the perception of squad quality, the success of most football clubs hinges on the quality of management. United had one of the most successful managers of all time in charge and fans are perplexed as to why despite money being spent the team is still firing up blank.

United need a quality manager to be successful.

Agree. I dont think he is good enough. With Ten Hag it was, he just needs a midfielder, and then we will be great, with Ole it was he just needs a defender to parter Maguire, and then he will be great, now with Amorim, he just needs a striker, and then he will be great. Fact is after 6 months we still play awful football, we just play with a load of defensive players and don't concede as many chances as we did with Ten Hag that's all. Ajax is still top of the league and so is Sporting.

 

[Raoul]

I disagree. I think the notion of anyone needing an old centre forward has been quite clearly put to bed by this stage. We need to sign dangerous, technical, composed attacking players. That's far more important than anything else.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but if you look at Amorim's model at Sporting, he very clearly employed a dominant, prolific #9 who garnered the bulk of his goals. United's own model has largely relied on similar contributions from #9s for most of the past quarter century. So unless there's a special Salah, Bale, or CR7 type player available, we are going to have to buy a prolific striker who scores a lot of goals to move up in the world.

 

[Cassidy]

Things are on the up definitely. You can see and feel solidity now, the only problem is the quality of the players. Bruno played some brilliant balls in today and we had zero quality to finish them off. Thursday is the real test and I think we will see a positive result.

Also feel like the pressure has finally lifted from amorim now as everyone is in the acceptance stage after the international break.

Agree. I find it strange people cannot see the obvious improvements in our play. We lack quality especially in the attacking third granted but we actually seem to be in control of most matches we have played lately which is a big difference to a few months ago

 

[Olecurls99]

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but if you look at Amorim's model at Sporting, he very clearly employed a dominant, prolific #9 who garnered the bulk of his goals. United's own model has largely relied on similar contributions from #9s for most of the past quarter century. So unless there's a special Salah, Bale, or CR7 type player available, we are going to have to buy a prolific striker who scores a lot of goals to move up in the world.

That's true. Sporting were set up like that and they had brilliant, relative to the league, players who beat men, overlapped and made tons of easy chances for Gyokeres.

We have somebody who can score easy chance imo. Whether he has Gyokeres movement is a fair question, but what can't be denied is that our main problem in imitating the Sporting setup is a lack of fast technical and clever number 10s. The ones best placed to fulfil that role (Amad, Mount and Mainoo) have all had horrific injury records for Ruben's tenure. I think if we had had 2 of these the last few months, the progress and goals scored would be far better.

 

[Cassidy]

That's true. Sporting were set up like that and they had brilliant, relative to the league, players who beat men, overlapped and made tons of easy chances for Gyokeres.

We have somebody who can score easy chance imo. Whether he has Gyokeres movement is a fair question, but what can't be denied is that our main problem in imitating the Sporting setup is a lack of fast technical and clever number 10s. The ones best placed to fulfil that role (Amad, Mount and Mainoo) have all had horrific injury records for Ruben's tenure. I think if we had had 2 of these the last few months, the progress and goals scored would be far better.

Gyokeres had a ton of assists by the way. He isn’t just a striker who puts away “easy” chances. Infact often scores goals from chances he creates himself

 

[stepic]

@Rozay just repeating literally the same points he made all last week. Don’t you get bored writing the same fecking posts?

 

[stevoc]

For the obvious reason that we didn’t have alternative attackers with Antony and Rashford moved on in Jan and Mount getting injured

Did we not have Mainoo, Zirkzee, Fernandes, Garnacho and Eriksen all who could and have occupied the no10 positions under Amorim available for the majority of December and January?

Rashford hadn't played for United since the start of December and Antony made only about 2-3 starts under Amorim. And both only moved just before Amad got injured. So Amad wasn't mostly playing at no10 for 5-6 weeks over December and January because they went out on loan.

Whether or not I think it's a good or bad thing, since mid December onwards Amorim started preferring defenders as his wingbacks. Probably due to the large amount of goals we were shipping in November and December under him. Which is probably understandable.

 

[moodyred]

Garnacho and Amad more or less have the same amount of goals this year. Neither will reach their true potential without a competent striker to work with. Bad decision making is simply a result of lack of options to cross ball to and having to instead improvise by running at defenders and getting a bad shot off.

I agree with this. Even during ETH's time we were shouting out for a proper striker. Instead of investing in a proven striker, we decided to pay incredible fees for a player with potential in Hojlund. Zirkee I feel has room for development but he is under performing currently.

Until we get a proper striker who can be a real threat upfront, I fear we will continue to struggle to score. Supporting actors trying to perform and cover for underwhelming main actors will not make movie good.

 

[Red the Bear]

If I'm not mistaken he had the chance to be the first manager to do the treble against pep in a single season.

Would have been a nice little personal accolade.

 

[bgoodall]

He seems to have fixed the defense / defending set pieces in particular. Our build out looks good too. Just need to work on the attacking third and we might be on to something.

 

[Tom Cato]

If I'm not mistaken he had the chance to be the first manager to do the treble against pep in a single season.

Would have been a nice little personal accolade.

Ole beat Pep three times in a single season, I believe Klopp also did the same. Probably someone else as well

 

[Drainy]

In this scenario though, the attackers are providing width/penetration and not defenders.

A striker, a 10 and a midfielder are in and around the box and wing forwards are providing the width. While a fullback is in midfield.

In Amorim's preferred structure, a striker and two 10s are in and around the box and the width comes from wingbacks, one of whom profiles as a classic inverted winger. Both midfielders are midfielders.

 

[flameinthesun]

He is obviously not a defensive coach

He is also obviously not an offensive coach. Based on what we have seen at United his tactics lean more on the defensive side than offensive. Maybe as the players come in he will get more offensive, tbh he could be more offensive now in the league if he wanted as we haven't got much to play for. The formation is inherently a defensive one though, whichever way we look at it as we have 1 less attacker, especially as it is currently played by United.

 

[Zlatans Knee]

He is also obviously not an offensive coach. Based on what we have seen at United his tactics lean more on the defensive side than offensive. Maybe as the players come in he will get more offensive, tbh he could be more offensive now in the league if he wanted as we haven't got much to play for. The formation is inherently a defensive one though, whichever way we look at it as we have 1 less attacker, especially as it is currently played by United.

Sporting Lisbon scored 96 goals last season when they won the league. It is clearly not the same league but nonetheless this shows that with the correct players drilled in his formation, we will be a lot more offensive and (hopefully) score a lot more goals.
There is a degree of pragmatism here as well depending on the opponent, we know that City love to pass the ball around so it makes sense to play with a lower block. We still completely outplayed them in the second half yesterday...without managing to score.

 

[Berbasbullet]

There was a good bit of play later in the game that ended with Zirkzee shooting into a defenders legs that I thought summarises the sort of football he wants to play. Was essentially quick passes to the wide players making runs in behind.

Feel like we’re getting better without the rewards.

Thursday is a must win! Need that reward now.