Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Annihilate Now!]

Coping mechanism.

In all metrics, Amorim is worse than ETH. Take time and look it has been explained here extensively.


Worse squad because of what? Your perception or what? It's Amorim who shipped off Rashford and Antony, we should blame ETH or Annihilate for that?

Well that's bullshit, as we're literally doing better in Europe under Amorim.

Also two random stats:

League Goals per game this season - ETH - 0.88 | Amorim 1.31 per game
League Goals conceded per game this season - ETH 1.55 | Amorim 1.5

So clearly we're not doing worse by all metrics. He's literally only doing 0.1 point per game once, and if we beat Arsenal on the weekend (big IF I admit) then he'll be doing better there too. Does that mean he's done a better job? Not really, it's all just different magnitudes of shit. This idea that ETH was doing a better job because he had 0.1 better points per game is just daft.

And our squad is worse because of injuries and outgoings, I'm not sure how that can be argued. Amorim was happy to let Rashford go yes, but I doubt he wanted Antony out without a replacement - even if he says as much in the media (I mean he's hardly going to say, well the club wanted Antony gone so my hands were tied).

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I think if you gave this manager Fulham's team and Silva ours in the last game Silva would have found a way to win

He's being out managed by more pragmatic managers. I don't see how he's going to get these players that stay on up for next season.

100%

Amorim seems to be forgetting why you play a formation (I.e., to win, not style points).

 

[RedRocket9908]

‘It has become clear that without spending £300m’.

Yes, crystal clear

I sad "at least 300m" which is what its going to take for this guy to get anything out of this team and club is broke so cant afford to spend that much

 

[Posh Red]

I sad "at least 300m" which is what its going to take for this guy to get anything out of this team and club is brike so cant afford to spend that much

If you say so

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Well that's bullshit, as we're literally doing better in Europe under Amorim.

Also two random stats:

League Goals per game this season - ETH - 0.88 | Amorim 1.31 per game
League Goals conceded per game this season - ETH 1.55 | Amorim 1.5

So clearly we're not doing worse by all metrics. He's literally only doing 0.1 point per game once, and if we beat Arsenal on the weekend (big IF I admit) then he'll be doing better there too. Does that mean he's done a better job? Not really, it's all just different magnitudes of shit. This idea that ETH was doing a better job because he had 0.1 better points per game is just daft.

And our squad is worse because of injuries and outgoings, I'm not sure how that can be argued. Amorim was happy to let Rashford go yes, but I doubt he wanted Antony out without a replacement - even if he says as much in the media (I mean he's hardly going to say, well the club wanted Antony gone so my hands were tied).

Also bullshit, ETH won FA Cup and reached a final previously. Should i continue

 

[Ish]

Well that's bullshit, as we're literally doing better in Europe under Amorim.

Also two random stats:

League Goals per game this season - ETH - 0.88 | Amorim 1.31 per game
League Goals conceded per game this season - ETH 1.55 | Amorim 1.5

So clearly we're not doing worse by all metrics. He's literally only doing 0.1 point per game once, and if we beat Arsenal on the weekend (big IF I admit) then he'll be doing better there too. Does that mean he's done a better job? Not really, it's all just different magnitudes of shit. This idea that ETH was doing a better job because he had 0.1 better points per game is just daft.

And our squad is worse because of injuries and outgoings, I'm not sure how that can be argued. Amorim was happy to let Rashford go yes, but I doubt he wanted Antony out without a replacement - even if he says as much in the media (I mean he's hardly going to say, well the club wanted Antony gone so my hands were tied).

All this, without even considering the fact that EtH was into his third season, after alsod spending around 600m euro on transfers, whilst Amorim was "forced" in midseason and have signed Dorgu plus a couple of youngsters....and that's a pretty huge factor to ignore.

Alas, end of season can't come soon enough.

 

[quadrant]

Ive got nothing against the man himself and dont think he is a terrible manager but in the 4 months he has been here and we have seen zero improvement while looking worse than we were before and it has become clear that without spending at least £300m on new players to make his system work but we dont have anywhere near the money to do that so keeping him in charge is pointless as he will continue to fail here.

The problem is that the low block and counter attack style that this club has built around post-LVG is a tactical dead end. Whoever comes in and tries to implement a progressive form of football is going to need the first team to change, I don't believe for a second anyone could get this group of players challenging at the top of the table. I do think that a different manager who reverted to low block and counter could get us up a few places this season, but I really don't know who in world football could get us to the top end of the table over the next couple of seasons without major surgery.

 

[Brand Nubian]

Can someone tell me what the training frequencies are? For example we played on Sunday so until our next game on Thursday how is the team organized?

Quick shower after Sundays unfortunate defeat before inhaling a baloon at Old Trafford car park on the way to pub.
Few quick shots with mates before grabing kebab and large chips on the way home.
FIFA all night before being kicked out of warm bed by an assistant coach. Very light and short Monday recovery session.
Harshly intense Tuesday training, on Wednesday a boring tacticall preparation watching some videos and even in need to get out and have a rondo before jetting off to Kazachstan for Thursday Europa League match.

Thats from Sancho´s book, no idea about other players.

 

[RuudTom83]

He still has 11 league games to go so it's probably too soon to just go full on youth mode. But with 5-6 games left and nothing to play for I hope we see a very young team given a proper run out.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Also bullshit, ETH won FA Cup and reached a final previously. Should i continue

We're talking about this season only. ETH was fired for his performance this season.

 

[Woziak]

This is just from the last few pages. People have been calling for him to be sacked for a couple weeks now. I don't know what rock you've been living under but learn what a strawman means and use it correctly next time.

Listen, when you have a record like his then you are under pressure, all you have to do is read the room and the media, I’m actually saying either back him or sack him you can’t do an in between because it will just get worse and more and more fans will waste their time and life calling each other out on threads like this one minute agreeing than not agreeing, a coach that is failing is always divisive so let’s agree to disagree and I’m well aware what a ‘strawman’ is however you clearly used at least twice out of context.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

This is just from the last few pages. People have been calling for him to be sacked for a couple weeks now. I don't know what rock you've been living under but learn what a strawman means and use it correctly next time.

@Woziak's post that you quoted didn't sound like it was calling for him to be sacked, but rather explaining the reasons why the hierarchy might be considering that decision

 

[Woziak]

Ive got nothing against the man himself and dont think he is a terrible manager but in the 4 months he has been here and we have seen zero improvement while looking worse than we were before and it has become clear that without spending at least £300m on new players to make his system work but we dont have anywhere near the money to do that so keeping him in charge is pointless as he will continue to fail here.

And hopefully that is the view of the majority of the fans because this is the actual truth.

We are skint, probably won’t have European Football next year and Ruben just doesn’t inspire any confidence. There is a reason why the media is being briefed that the club may change its manager in the summer and all of a sudden we are linked with ; Xavi, Joachim Low, Allegri, Unai Emery, Ernesto Valverde, most of them are older and have years of experience.

All I’m going to say; is it ok now that every weekend or midweek game against any opposition, most United fans think we will be lucky to score a goal and maybe scrape a draw?

Is that really what we are now?

Is a squad that should have been improved this summer really that bad after wining two trophies, got to three finals, knocked out Barcelona over two legs in a European competition and finish 3rd then 8th in the last two seasons really as bad as 1.12 point per game and barely a goal per game?

I honestly think if we accept this then we are on the same path as Leeds were, the club needs to Set RA definite targets if he is to remain as coach next season?

At least another 18-20 points in the EPL and a semi final in Europa league, if not bye, bye Ruben?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Eh?

People rightly criticised Ten Hag for not playing the Ajax way, the very reason as to why he was hired, Ten Hag even openly admitted the players aren’t capable of playing the Ajax way, & he rightly got criticised for changing his style to suit the team.

Now Amorim is getting criticised for NOT changing his style to suit the team

He didn't though. He changed his style to something that didn't suit the team at all or even come remotely close to working in the PL.

 

[Woziak]

@Woziak's post that you quoted didn't sound like it was calling for him to be sacked, but rather explaining the reasons why the hierarchy might be considering that decision

Exactly that, if we can’t bankroll him what’s the point?

If he can’t improve performances now after 25 matches in charge, when will he?

Why would the hierarchy not seriously think about sacking him. It’s very rare that any coach under 40 gets one of European Super clubs?

He has shown huge errors of judgement but I’m still willing to get behind him providing the club gives him a fighting chance and allows at least a £200-250m spend this summer which they will not do!

 

[Insanity]

He still has 11 league games to go so it's probably too soon to just go full on youth mode. But with 5-6 games left and nothing to play for I hope we see a very young team given a proper run out.

The season will peter out pretty tamely if we bow out of Europa, I feel. There would be nothing left to play for, relegation is really not a worry and we can't chase any European football through league position. I don't think anyone will have anyone motivation left for anything and will wait for the summer. Can't remember another season like this.

 

[crossy1686]

He still has 11 league games to go so it's probably too soon to just go full on youth mode. But with 5-6 games left and nothing to play for I hope we see a very young team given a proper run out.

Was thinking about this today and from where we are now (no money, no Europe etc) the only way out is via the youth team providing some sort of class of 92 again.

 

[Woziak]

The season will peter out pretty tamely if we bow out of Europa, I feel. There would be nothing left to play for, relegation is really not a worry and we can't chase any European football through league position. I don't think anyone will have anyone motivation left for anything and will wait for the summer. Can't remember another season like this.

The alternative view is bring a coach like Xavi for the last 5/6 PL games of the season to evaluate the squad and make plans for the new season ?

A) SJR might think if we back Ruben it’s at least £200m or £60-70m net after player sales and we’re not sure it will work or

B) Pay the £20m to get rid and bring In a coach like Xavi on a 2 year deal with a budget of maybe £100m

 

[crossy1686]

I think if you gave this manager Fulham's team and Silva ours in the last game Silva would have found a way to win

He's being out managed by more pragmatic managers. I don't see how he's going to get these players that stay on up for next season.

What do we actually want though? If we want a pragmatic manager that will adapt to the players he has and the opposition we're facing then we can just go and get Dyche now and have him see out the rest of the season. Then next season, if we spend north of £100m on new players who can play to a system, do we still want someone like Dyche to manage those players or do we want a coach like Amorim to manage those players? Despite everyone saying they were happy with short term pain for long term gain, I don't think some people actually realised what that meant.

 

[Insanity]

The alternative view is bring a coach like Xavi for the last 5/6 PL games of the season to evaluate the squad and make plans for the new season ?

A) SJR might think if we back Ruben it’s at least £200m or £60-70m net after player sales and we’re not sure it will work or

B) Pay the £20m to get rid and bring In a coach like Xavi on a 2 year deal with a budget of maybe £100m

Whether it's Ruben or anyone else, we are going to need a big summer if we want to do half decently next season. The squad has been gutted and it will need reinforcements.

 

[Raoul]

Potter did take over Chelsea mid season.

Forgot about that. I suppose that doesn’t paint his attempt at managing a big club in a particularly flattering light given that he had more runway to work with.

 

[Posh Red]

Exactly that, if we can’t bankroll him what’s the point?

If he can’t improve performances now after 25 matches in charge, when will he?

Why would the hierarchy not seriously think about sacking him. It’s very rare that any coach under 40 gets one of European Super clubs?

He has shown huge errors of judgement but I’m still willing to get behind him providing the club gives him a fighting chance and allows at least a £200-250m spend this summer which they will not do!

So you aren’t behind him, then. Easier to just say that.

 

[RuudTom83]

Was thinking about this today and from where we are now (no money, no Europe etc) the only way out is via the youth team providing some sort of class of 92 again.

Yeah, United are going to have to hope a bunch of the academy lads can step up...but I just can't see that happening without having a Cantona/Zlatan figure in the senior side to bond them all together. I love Bruno but he isn't that type of character.

 

[JPRouve]

Was thinking about this today and from where we are now (no money, no Europe etc) the only way out is via the youth team providing some sort of class of 92 again.

Not just that. The main way out is through superior coaching and scouting. By taking punts on young and cheap players that the head coach is meant to develop and coach up.

 

[stepic]

The alternative view is bring a coach like Xavi for the last 5/6 PL games of the season to evaluate the squad and make plans for the new season ?

A) SJR might think if we back Ruben it’s at least £200m or £60-70m net after player sales and we’re not sure it will work or

B) Pay the £20m to get rid and bring In a coach like Xavi on a 2 year deal with a budget of maybe £100m

You forgot the ‘and we’re not sure it will work’ from your Xavi example, but we all know you just post bullshit ad nauseam.

 

[Grande]

Yeah, it would be more case dependent - for example against Bodo or Steau that would have been a positive move in my opinion. Putting more creative guys in the 10's like Eriksen/bruno and playing Zirkzee whilst pushing Rashford LW and Amad RW super high. You can always accommodate players (if they are worth it) like with Pool and how they compensate for Salah's lack of tracking back, issue I guess is we don't really have anyone good enough to accommodate.

I agree with your last sentence about accomodation. Only exception to me atm would be Bruno, but he is versatile enough for that not to be necessary.

 

[Woziak]

If you say so

TBF he’s only really repeating what’s been reported in the media that Liverpool turned him down because they evaluated a £400m windfall required to make the specualist transfers to fit Ruben’s formation and there was no guarantees after such a huge investment.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ruben-amorim-manchester-united-liverpool-34782275.amp

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-united-forced-pay-up-31111845.amp

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/2021660/Manchester-United-Ruben-Amorim-Liverpool/amp

The times ran this story before all of the above it’s being widely reported throughout the media.

 

[Woziak]

You forgot the ‘and we’re not sure it will work’ from your Xavi example, but we all know you just post bullshit ad nauseam.

Can it work any worse? And I repeat for the last time, this is not my view but it’s very much how a man like SJR thinks and acts, just look at the Dan Ashworth scenario, look at his track record with Nice, he has no patience whatsoever, if Xavi doesn’t work he will sack him as well, until he finds a coach that does work.

If you say so, seeing as your now the oracle on all things regarding elite coaches!

 

[DJ Jeff]

Ive got nothing against the man himself and dont think he is a terrible manager but in the 4 months he has been here and we have seen zero improvement while looking worse than we were before and it has become clear that without spending at least £300m on new players to make his system work but we dont have anywhere near the money to do that so keeping him in charge is pointless as he will continue to fail here.

Yeah I agree with this and think the results have been so catastrophically bad that there's no way he can get these players onside for next season, he'll start next year like a lame duck with half the dressing room against him and get sacked in October and we'll have to write off yet another season, probably after spending a load on players solely for his system who then become deadwood. He's probably a really good manager but its fast approaching the time where you just let him go and accept that it had gone to shit and it was an awful decision to force him in mid season, even if he will likely do great elsewhere.

 

[Doracle]

Forgot about that. I suppose that doesn’t paint his attempt at managing a big club in a particularly flattering light given that he had more runway to work with.

I don’t follow this post. Potter got appointed mid season by Chelsea in similar circumstances to Amorim and was sacked well before the end of the season, without getting a summer to work with his players etc. What additional runway did he have to work with?

I’m not advocating for sacking Amorim currently and I think Chelsea made the wrong decision in sacking Potter so quickly. However, if that’s a barometer, then Amorim would currently be on track for a sacking before season end.

 

[Ali Dia]

What do we actually want though? If we want a pragmatic manager that will adapt to the players he has and the opposition we're facing then we can just go and get Dyche now and have him see out the rest of the season. Then next season, if we spend north of £100m on new players who can play to a system, do we still want someone like Dyche to manage those players or do we want a coach like Amorim to manage those players? Despite everyone saying they were happy with short term pain for long term gain, I don't think some people actually realised what that meant.

I get that 100% but there's no escaping the fact that the manager is going to have to work with 90% of this squad again next season. Are our signings going to be so transformative that everyone is going to start playing up by 2 or 3 levels around them? I think the manager made a mistake not galvanising the players he has at his disposal and getting everyone playing with joy and for each other again and then eventually asking them to step out of their comfort zone

I always said a lot of the time under Fergie we were defensive and counter attacking and very agressive. It wasn't pretty to watch but we were always only there win games and move onto the next one. Do that, play defensive and counter for a few months or a season or even two. Grind results. Build trust. Add players who will help you develop front foot beautiful football while slowly and sensibly phasing out players who can't do it. This is just pulling the whole house down without the resources to fix it up afterwards. That is on INEOS but the manager sure isn't helping himself either.

 

[Raoul]

I don’t follow this post. Potter got appointed mid season by Chelsea in similar circumstances to Amorim and was sacked well before the end of the season, without getting a summer to work with his players etc. What additional runway did he have to work with?

I’m not advocating for sacking Amorim currently and I think Chelsea made the wrong decision in sacking Potter so quickly. However, if that’s a barometer, then Amorim would currently be on track for a sacking before season end.

His wiki page says he was appointed on Sep 8th, which isn't exactly mid season but would've obviously not been anything like a June appointment where he had a full summer to train and bring in new recruits.

I agree with you on the latter bit. There's no credible talk about getting rid of Amorim this soon, especially given that he seems to be Omar Berrada's guy, who went out of his way to bring him to England mid season. Ruben will receive two years before a proper assessment will be made imo.

 

[hobbers]

Is a squad that should have been improved this summer really that bad after wining two trophies, got to three finals, knocked out Barcelona over two legs in a European competition and finish 3rd then 8th in the last two seasons really as bad as 1.12 point per game and barely a goal per game?

The squad that has drastically changed since then is quite obviously that bad, yes. Have you tried reading through the names of the players in the matchday squads recently?

 

[Josh 76]

Ive got nothing against the man himself and dont think he is a terrible manager but in the 4 months he has been here and we have seen zero improvement while looking worse than we were before and it has become clear that without spending at least £300m on new players to make his system work but we dont have anywhere near the money to do that so keeping him in charge is pointless as he will continue to fail here.

I agree. He has shown nothing at all since he's been here that shows he will deliver next season. This weird obsession he has with this formation, that can only work with certain players he needs, is a suicide mission. As well as going down himself he will take the whole club with him. The most bizarre situation I've ever seen in football for a very long time.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

just such a stupid fecking idea to bring him in midway thru the season. Shouldve been done before the year. Completely tanked any momentum he couldve built, put such a negative vibe at the club, and now we have this dead season with one of the worst manchester united squads i have ever seen. I dont know how to judge him currently with this shitshow going on. Looking at matchday squads i legit think the team would struggle in the championship.

 

[red_de_pologne]

I agree. He has shown nothing at all since he's been here that shows he will deliver next season. This weird obsession he has with this formation, that can only work with certain players he needs, is a suicide mission. As well as going down himself he will take the whole club with him. The most bizarre situation I've ever seen in football for a very long time.

What a bizarre post.. The club is going down due to decade of complete mismanagement and neglect.. feck all to do with current manager, who, unsurprisingly can't do much with a set of players including one fit striker who hasn't scored in 18 games, one winger (50 shots without a single goal), one midfielder in Ugarte, one youngster wing back, no creativity, no physicality, no desire, no quality. The hell has formation to do with it? We change our shape in game a lot, Garna plays as a winger, we play low block often. We now don't even have staff to execute a counter attacking simple play. Every formation needs players we don't have.

 

[Josh 76]

What a bizarre post.. The club is going down due to decade of complete mismanagement and neglect.. feck all to do with current manager, who, unsurprisingly can't do much with a set of players including one fit striker who hasn't scored in 18 games, one winger (50 shots without a single goal), one midfielder in Ugarte, one youngster wing back, no creativity, no physicality, no desire, no quality. The hell has formation to do with it? We change our shape in game a lot, Garna plays as a winger, we play low block often. We now don't even have staff to execute a counter attacking simple play. Every formation needs players we don't have.

He can at least make us a bit more solid and maybe do something different. Even ETH managed to do that in the Cup final.

 

[red_de_pologne]

He can at least make us a bit more solid and maybe do something different. Even ETH managed to do that in the Cup final.

So did Ruben against City, Arsenal, Liverpool.. problem is other 90% of games.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

What a bizarre post.. The club is going down due to decade of complete mismanagement and neglect.. feck all to do with current manager, who, unsurprisingly can't do much with a set of players including one fit striker who hasn't scored in 18 games, one winger (50 shots without a single goal), one midfielder in Ugarte, one youngster wing back, no creativity, no physicality, no desire, no quality. The hell has formation to do with it? We change our shape in game a lot, Garna plays as a winger, we play low block often. We now don't even have staff to execute a counter attacking simple play. Every formation needs players we don't have.

Two things can be true, Its more than a decade of mismanagement, its the entire rot of the Glazer ownership which has sucked the club dry. At the same time a top or a promising young manager should be able to make the most of what he has. RVN made an OK job of maximising things, We dont have the squad for Amorim which makes us foolish to hire him and him foolish to accept. He has made us worse defensively and offensively. Its not about principles its about pragmatism, coaching and man management We are in a mess, not clear he will last much of next season unless things really improve. We cant rely on spending alone given the financial constraints.

 

[Theo88]

He can at least make us a bit more solid and maybe do something different. Even ETH managed to do that in the Cup final.

do people remember that we barely got to that final? how did ETH make us compact in any way? Championship teams would get 30 shots on target against us.