Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[DSG]

And who tells you that we will manage to win the thing with Allegri? There are no guarantess. I don't know for sure but this sounds exactly like the kind of mindset, the club should get rid of as soon as possible "we are Manchester United, we have some divine right to win stuff". The EL isn't some free ride, we are 14th not because of a blip, it is because we suck at multiple key aspects of modern football. No manager will take care of that in such a short time.


I agree. Thats the textbook. I think, the level should be debatable though, in the sense that the DOF (or whoever) isn't dictating everything, just the key principles, transfer strategy and short and midterm goals.

Thats great but this isn't helping. SAF and Ancelotti do great jobs with great teams. We don't have a great team where we'd could use an Ancelotti type coach who will get us over the line of finally winning stuff. Just look around, system coaches are everywhere. And one of the reason is that systems allow groups of players to achieve things that they wouldn't achieve as individuals. Obviously thats a lot to do with recruitment but not just that. If you know exactly, what kind of capabilities for example your left wingback needs you arent just boxed into thoughts like "who is the best playing this position" or "who might be the best talent in this position" but you can make use of performance data to see, which players cover enough room, make enough passes, enough successful takeons and so on.

To some degree I can understand people trying to move away from complexity in those regards but all our rivals apply such approaches and when we do not, we will always be at a disadvantage.


We agree on the overall approach but I think, the bolded part is a sign of the wrong mindset. Thinking we are only a few good players short of "clicking" is what got us into this mess. Varane, Ronaldo, Varane, Antony, Sancho were bought based on this exact mindset. We have to move away from "good" and "bad" as the only ways to distinguish whether somebody is a good fit or isn't. Right now - most of our opponents are working harder, seem stronger than most of our players, show more football intelligence, show more willingness to handle the ball. Adding players that help with that can of course help the overall picture but it isn't just that, we have to integrate collective principles. We have to improve our level of organisation. Thats not just automatically done "by adding the right players".

I feel such an approach will always end up as some sort of bandaid. It may even work for half a season but then a key player is out and stuff is back to square one. There is no shortcut. The available players HAVE TO improve AND we have to bring in suitable players. And given that we are playing in the highest league, not even that will guarantee anything from the start because all teams are doing those things.

I’m not advocating to sack Amorim, I’m just saying that SAF and Ancelotti are the ultimate pragmatists. They tend to bend tactics to get the best out of the squad. And both of them built CL and title winning sides from scratch.

Pep, Klopp and Amorim are purists. They know how to play one way and they will train and build their squads to play in that manner only.

For me, SAF and Ancelotti are better managers. They win as often, or more, than Pep and Klopp, and they take the players they have and develop tactics to get the best out of the squad.

It’s an opinion. I believe that formations are a construct of a playing philosophy, not a problem one way or another. The Caf bangs on endlessly about formations, but our issues are not about the formation.

 

[Raoul]

I truly thought after ETH the cult of the manager would finally be over. But apparently not. It’s absolutely bizarre.

Look at it this way. Amorim's system relies on a quality striker to score goals. He took over a squad that he had to convert to his formation mid season, and without a competent #9 to score enough goals to compensate for the turbulence of switching ethos and formation mid season. What does that result in ? Barely watchable football and 14th.

 

[frostbite]

I’m not advocating to sack Amorim, I’m just saying that SAF and Ancelotti are the ultimate pragmatists. They tend to bend tactics to get the best out of the squad. And both of them built CL and title winning sides from scratch.

Pep, Klopp and Amorim are purists. They know how to play one way and they will train and build their squads to play in that manner only.

For me, SAF and Ancelotti are better managers. They win as often, or more, than Pep and Klopp, and they take the players they have and develop tactics to get the best out of the squad.

It’s an opinion. I believe that formations are a construct of a playing philosophy, not a problem one way or another. The Caf bangs on endlessly about formations, but our issues are not about the formation.

Pep won without a striker. And the next year he won the treble with Haaland.

 

[thefrenchy]

Can someone tell me what the training frequencies are? For example we played on Sunday so until our next game on Thursday how is the team organized?

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Look at it this way. Amorim's system relies on a quality striker to score goals. He took over a squad that he had to convert to his formation mid season, and without a competent #9 to score enough goals to compensate for the turbulence of switching ethos and formation mid season. What does that result in ? Barely watchable football and 14th.

We might be overhyping Gyokeres and his importance to Amorim.
For example, Darwin Nunez scored just 3 goals less than Gyokores for Benfica, this playing 6 games less than him.
I think the Portugues league is misleading as far how good someone really is, player or manager. Also think that Amorim is finding out just how difficult the premier league is in comparison.

 

[Raoul]

We might be overhyping Gyokeres and his importance to Amorim.
For example, Darwin Nunez scored just 3 goals less than Gyokores for Benfica, this playing 6 games less than him.
I think the Portugues league is misleading as far how good someone really is, player or manager. Also think that Amorim is finding out just how difficult the premier league is.

Gyokeres was obviously perfect for Amorim’s needs at Sporting. Would that translate to the Premier League? Who knows, but we shouldn’t presume his success is just down to the Portuguese League, just as we had no idea whether Isak’s game in Spain would translate to England.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Gyokeres was obviously perfect for Amorim’s needs at Sporting. Would that translate to the Premier League? Who knows, but we shouldn’t presume his success is just down to the Portuguese League, just as we had no idea whether Isak’s game in Spain would translate to England.

You know what. I honestly believe that this Man United squad could easily be 3rd in the Portuguese league. With a bit of luck, maybe champions. We would be up against the likes of Falamicao and Arouca. (Just looked them up). Can you name a single player or manager of any team other than Porto Sporting and Benfica without looking them up? This is his first big test as a manager I think. This league.

 

[NLunited]

I truly thought after ETH the cult of the manager would finally be over. But apparently not. It’s absolutely bizarre.

Hah, there were maybe three or four posters who supported Ten Hag last season when shit went down.

It‘s exactly the opposite now: a few posters wanting rid of Amorim, most want to give him transfer windows and players despite Amorim failing hard.

This despite us looking worse off than before.

I‘ve never thought managers were the issue here, although I could not stand Mourinho‘s football.

There comes a point where you have to change the manager, and it is approaching fast.

 

[DRJosh]

I mean despite the wage bill, we could quite possibly have one of the weakest teams in the premier league in terms of mindset and application.

I don’t think that’s on Amorim.

 

[DSG]

This much is obvious. Amorim is having to manage a club mid season onwards with a group of players bought by the previous manager for a completely different system and general approach to the game. On top of that, he has had to grapple with not having a proper #9 who can reliably and consistently score goals, problems with Rashford, and a massive slew of injuries. The trick for this summer will be to get everyone healthy and buy a striker, CM and WB, all the while getting rid of about 5-6 players.

I hear you. I do not think we should give him a pass for the performances since he came in. We are pretty awful. People seem to think it’s either all or nothing, but I see shades of gray. He should have us playing better than we are (particularly defensively) but can’t be completely at fault for crap finishing

 

[Waynne]

I don't believe in curses but wondering if the badge and the successes of the past is a mental block, anchor or whatever to both the players and manager. I'm starting to think these issues are psychological rather than a technical or physical limitation.

Then again maybe we can only expect real meaningful change with a new owner. If and when new players arrive in the summer and there's no noticable change within a few months is when I'll start to get really worried about this club.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Darling, you are the fattest you have ever been. I have never imagined that my wife would be that fat. I don't know what to do.... Anyway, what have you prepared for dinner?

 

[DSG]

Hah, there were maybe three or four posters who supported Ten Hag last season when shit went down.

It‘s exactly the opposite now: a few posters wanting rid of Amorim, most want to give him transfer windows and players despite Amorim failing hard.

This despite us looking worse off than before.

I‘ve never thought managers were the issue here, although I could not stand Mourinho‘s football.

There comes a point where you have to change the manager, and it is approaching fast.

Ten Hag can be shit and Amorim can be shit. Things can be two things. After 2.5 years, Ten Hag was not the answer. That was really clear. Transfers (veto power… all transfers are on his watch), tactics, results… really dire. Amorim hasn’t been better. There are a lot of the Caf that don’t want to look at either one objectively, but that is the absolute truth.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

You would be hard pressed to cite managers who went on to succeed at major clubs following a “rubbish” start, unfortunately.

By and large, rubbish start leads to a rubbish rest-of-it, with very few significant deviations from a historical perspective.

Even those who oversaw a time-consuming and painstaking rebuild provided an initial bounce, a silver lining of sorts, something you could rally the troops around...

• Alex Ferguson: from 1.00 point-per-game in the league under Ron Atkinson to 1.48 points-per-game for the rest of the season with a 27.5% loss rate.
• Mikel Arteta: from 1.23 points-per-game in the league under Unai Emery to 1.48 points-per-game for the rest of the season with a 23.8% loss rate.
• Rubén Amorim: from 1.23 points-per-game in the league under Erik Ten Hag to 1.12 points-per-game thus far with a 50% loss rate.

It's not even about underwhelming results per se. You have to see something, like making a bad situation better due to tactical adroitness, getting players to perform at a higher level than their median, being hard to contain as things click from time to time. For the most part, we are seeing nothing at all, just a pit of despair. There has to be some sort of gave-and-take dynamic for us to have faith in the head coach. It shouldn't be absolute and unshaking when there are warning signs. Affording the head coach time, aligning the club per their vision and essentially giving them a free pass because we need to give someone time can be a folly, and a way of declining further if it's not the right person.

While I don't envy Berrada, Wilcox et al for having to make difficult decisions, that is their remit and this summer offers us another chance to make a fresh start (with regard to the sporting director and head coaches positions in particular). Much like the summer gone by, where we failed to seize the opportunity with both hands and sealed the fate of this season before the ball had even been kicked. The higher-ups need to weight up all pros and cons, explore different possibilities, and think long and hard about the direction we want to go in. Because going in the wrong direction will have profound repercussions, now more than ever. No one will think less of them for going in a different direction, if that decision is ultimately vindicated.

Pretend you have the power: what’s your call?

I agree with everything you wrote and think it’s madness to continue with this style and/or head coach.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

You're going to have find in my post where I said 'these' players got multiple managers sacked. What I said was they are not good enough and no manager will make them good enough. We have a well regarded young manager , let's at least give him a proper chance.

He’s not well-regarded anymore.

People are advocating we keep a manager who will likely have an end of season record of 8 wins in 26 league games, crashing out of the FA Cup to a loss poor Fulham, and probably getting our asses handed to us in Spain in the Europa. How on earth is that acceptable.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Cult of the manager :lol

Don’t make me laugh!

Clearly the pair of you misunderstood my post & read things as black/white and don’t look deeper and understand that their is nuance.

Couldn’t care less about Amorim, I’d have said the same if it was someone else. Reason I would be done with the club is I’m sick to the back teeth of the constant changing of managers, the players have thrown manager after manager after manager under the bus, & it doesn’t matter which set of players it is either, it always seems to happen. The club is toxic. No other club seems to have this issue. Even if we are turning into Tottenham, they don’t have this issue & can always see a change of style whenever the manager changes.

Sick of people wanting to change managers, the same happened under Ten Hag and we slated him for NOT sticking to his principles and now we’re slating Ten Hag FOR sticking to his.

We slated Ten Hag for playing Casemiro all by himself in midfield, and also the famous donut formation. I don’t recall anyone moaning about his principles.

 

[Zumbi]

Ten Hag was poor yet he was immune from criticism from a huge section of our fanbase. And now Amorim is getting the same soft treatment.

As you wrote, we’re not asking for a top 4 place but he needs to show some improvement.

It seems a little disingenuous to make this comparison when Ten Hag had several years and £600 million in squad investment whilst Amorim’s had four months and Dorgu.

 

[Desert Eagle]

He’s not well-regarded anymore.

People are advocating we keep a manager who will likely have an end of season record of 8 wins in 26 league games, crashing out of the FA Cup to a loss poor Fulham, and probably getting our asses handed to us in Spain in the Europa. How on earth is that acceptable.

He is still well regarded by the vast majority of the football world. People know the United job is a poisoned chalice and the club is a mess. Just like ETH he will get plenty of job offers if he leaves us.

Yes because of all the extenuating circumstances:

He has no decent striker; His options are a poor 22 year old and a 17 year old

His best attacking player got a season ending injury and two other senior attacking players were let go in January without anyone being brought in.

The keeper has been awful and has cost him multiple times.

Came in halfway through the season into a new league and with the club in serious turmoil.

Of course results have been worse than expected but at least he recognizes the two main problems with our squad, we are not physical enough and we have players who do not trust their technique and would rather play hoof ball. If after a summer window and a few months into next season we are still struggling like we are now then sure fire him but not until he's been given a fair shot. This season was a writeoff as soon as we fired ETH half way through the season. We were never going to do anything in the league and now we only have one cup to go for. You can say he crashed out of the cup to a poor Fulham side but he also beat Arsenal away in the same cup.

 

[stepic]

It seems a little disingenuous to make this comparison when Ten Hag had several years and £600 million in squad investment whilst Amorim’s had four months and Dorgu.

Don’t try and apply any common sense or logic to this thread

 

[Regalia]

It seems a little disingenuous to make this comparison when Ten Hag had several years and £600 million in squad investment whilst Amorim’s had four months and Dorgu.

Being pedantic but more like 3.5 months. While juggling the festive fixtures and then getting 1 budget WB at the end of the Jan window.

But we don't do common sense here; only reactionary, hysterical takes attacking the manager's body language while gradually gaslighting each other that the squad is Top 4 quality allowed.

 

[stoinz]

Being pedantic but more like 3.5 months. While juggling the festive fixtures and then getting 1 budget WB at the end of the Jan window.

But we don't do common sense here; only reactionary, hysterical takes attacking the manager's body language while gradually gaslighting each other that the squad is Top 4 quality allowed.

Exactly.. There is another thread on our current squad. How can anyone look at it and think that it is a top 4 squad. We are struggling to put 11 experienced players on the field let alone playing different formations.

Can any manager come in and expected to do well with this squad? Do we have the speed to do a low block and counter-attack? Do we have the wingers to play a traditional 4-42? Are we imagining that Casemiro, Eriksen and Evans still have the legs to play full game every week in a physically demanding league?

Available experienced 11: Onana, Yoro, Maguire, Deligt, Lindelof, Evans, Dalot, Dorgu, Mazraoui, Ugarte, Bruno, Eriksen, Casemiro, Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho,


Goalkeepers
Onana
Heaton INJURED
Bayindir
Graczyk (Yt)
Harrison (Yt)

Defenders/Fullbacks/Wingbacks
Yoro
Maguire
DeLigt
Martinez INJURED
Lindelof
Evans
Shaw INJURED
Dalot
Dorgu
Mazraoui
Heaven (Yt)

Midfielders
Ugarte
Bruno
Eriksen
Casemiro
Collyer (Yt)
Mainoo INJURED
Mount INJURED

Forwards
Hojlund
Zirkzee
Amad INJURED
Garnacho
Chido (Yt)

On-loan
Antony (FW)
Rashford (FW)
Sancho (FW)

 

[yumtum]

For all this talk of us having crap players (correct), it's a coaches job to improve players, yet every single one has regressed in the 4 months he's been at the club.

Those who are saying to give him pre season...what's two months going to do if the only thing he's shown is negativity and player regression? You seriously think training sessions with no games will suddenly flick a switch in the players like a light bulb? "Oh that's what he wants us to do, gosh I just didn't get that for the first 6 months he was telling me as there were games to be played".

 

[ryansgirl]

If we continue as we have been then I don't see him making Xmas this year. He'll get a preseason and a transfer window but I reckon he'll need to have this team ticking and playing well from the start of next season to see 2026.

They sacked Ten Hag midseason because they obviously expected a new manager to be able to improve things. While I'm sure they understood the new man might need time to get an upturn in form/results. I doubt the club thought things would get this bad.

You don`t think the `It has to get worse before it gets better` idea applies here given the circumstances? I would have thought the board was prepared to back Amorim for longer given the way in which United has gone through 5 managers plus 2 interim ones and it`s brought United nowhere nearer to be at least looking like a force in the Premier League again.

And if Amorim goes by the end of this year, do you think any big name manager with proven success will agree to come? Some names have been mentioned but who is somebody that would be willing to come in the present club environment?

 

[Ted Lasso]

Both Jurgen Klopp and Mikel Arteta joined part way thru the season. How did they fare in the league?

Klopp - moved from 10th to 8th in the League
30 matches
13 wins
9 daws
8 losses

Arteta - moved from 11th to 8th in the League
20 matches
9 wins
6 draws
5 losses

Amorim - took over with United in 13th
16 matches
5 wins
3 draws
8 losses

Y'all can compare the squads but even without the majority of this thread lately is obscene. Amorim took over a team in 13th place, which I don't think really registers for the impatient and undiscerning.

If you want to compare United to United, then here we go for mid season managers:

Solskjaer - moved United from 6th to...6th by season end
21 matches
12 wins
4 draws
5 losses

Ragnick - moved United from 7th to 6th
24 matches
10 wins
7 draws
7 losses


I just don't see how we can fairly judge Amorim until the season is over even against these comparisons and considering at what position he took over.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Both Jurgen Klopp and Mikel Arteta joined part way thru the season. How did they fare in the league?

Klopp - moved from 10th to 8th in the League
30 matches
13 wins
9 daws
8 losses

Arteta - moved from 11th to 8th in the League
20 matches
9 wins
6 draws
5 losses

Amorim - took over with United in 13th
16 matches
5 wins
3 draws
8 losses

Y'all can compare the squads but even without the majority of this thread lately is obscene. Amorim took over a team in 13th place, which I don't think really registers for the impatient and undiscerning.

If you want to compare United to United, then here we go for mid season managers:

Solskjaer - moved United from 6th to...6th by season end
21 matches
12 wins
4 draws
5 losses

Ragnick - moved United from 7th to 6th
24 matches
10 wins
7 draws
7 losses


I just don't see how we can fairly judge Amorim until the season is over even against these comparisons and considering at what position he took over.

Exactly.. There is another thread on our current squad. How can anyone look at it and think that it is a top 4 squad. We are struggling to put 11 experienced players on the field let alone playing different formations.

Can any manager come in and expected to do well with this squad? Do we have the speed to do a low block and counter-attack? Do we have the wingers to play a traditional 4-42? Are we imagining that Casemiro, Eriksen and Evans still have the legs to play full game every week in a physically demanding league?

Available experienced 11: Onana, Yoro, Maguire, Deligt, Lindelof, Evans, Dalot, Dorgu, Mazraoui, Ugarte, Bruno, Eriksen, Casemiro, Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho,


Goalkeepers
Onana
Heaton INJURED
Bayindir
Graczyk (Yt)
Harrison (Yt)

Defenders/Fullbacks/Wingbacks
Yoro
Maguire
DeLigt
Martinez INJURED
Lindelof
Evans
Shaw INJURED
Dalot
Dorgu
Mazraoui
Heaven (Yt)

Midfielders
Ugarte
Bruno
Eriksen
Casemiro
Collyer (Yt)
Mainoo INJURED
Mount INJURED

Forwards
Hojlund
Zirkzee
Amad INJURED
Garnacho
Chido (Yt)

On-loan
Antony (FW)
Rashford (FW)
Sancho (FW)

Good posts by both of you. I really hope those fans that want him sacked now are ignored. We can revisit whether we should be keeping him around October, November of next season. For now all of our eggs should be in the europa basket.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

For all this talk of us having crap players (correct), it's a coaches job to improve players, yet every single one has regressed in the 4 months he's been at the club.

Those who are saying to give him pre season...what's two months going to do if the only thing he's shown is negativity and player regression? You seriously think training sessions with no games will suddenly flick a switch in the players like a light bulb? "Oh that's what he wants us to do, gosh I just didn't get that for the first 6 months he was telling me as there were games to be played".

Agreed, it will probably happen like in ETH case, give him the summer in hopes for a miracle, then absolutely nothing happened, we were even worse than the previous season. Only difference are the excuses, ETH had the injuries, Amorim will have the player's familiarity with the system.

 

[Zumbi]

Agreed, it will probably happen like in ETH case, give him the summer in hopes for a miracle, then absolutely nothing happened, we were even worse than the previous season. Only difference are the excuses, ETH had the injuries, Amorim will have the player's familiarity with the system.

Two years and £600 million spent on players are two other pretty big differences, surely?

 

[hellhunter]

Two years and £600 million spent on players are two other pretty big differences, surely?

But does it really matter? Amorim will have to make do with a majority of these very players, and if he can't we need someone that can

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

SAF and Ancelotti do great jobs with great teams.

I think SAF was quite famous for doing great jobs with not so great teams.

 

[Highfather_24]

We've barely been able to get right profiles/players the last few years.

Now we have to get the right profiles/players and make sure they fit into a back 3 AND back 4 formation?

Yeah, I aint feeling too condfident.

 

[Leftback99]

Exactly.. There is another thread on our current squad. How can anyone look at it and think that it is a top 4 squad. We are struggling to put 11 experienced players on the field let alone playing different formations.

Can any manager come in and expected to do well with this squad? Do we have the speed to do a low block and counter-attack? Do we have the wingers to play a traditional 4-42? Are we imagining that Casemiro, Eriksen and Evans still have the legs to play full game every week in a physically demanding league?

Available experienced 11: Onana, Yoro, Maguire, Deligt, Lindelof, Evans, Dalot, Dorgu, Mazraoui, Ugarte, Bruno, Eriksen, Casemiro, Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho,


Goalkeepers
Onana
Heaton INJURED
Bayindir
Graczyk (Yt)
Harrison (Yt)

Defenders/Fullbacks/Wingbacks
Yoro
Maguire
DeLigt
Martinez INJURED
Lindelof
Evans
Shaw INJURED
Dalot
Dorgu
Mazraoui
Heaven (Yt)

Midfielders
Ugarte
Bruno
Eriksen
Casemiro
Collyer (Yt)
Mainoo INJURED
Mount INJURED

Forwards
Hojlund
Zirkzee
Amad INJURED
Garnacho
Chido (Yt)

On-loan
Antony (FW)
Rashford (FW)
Sancho (FW)

It's a horrible squad, made even worse by the injuries.

How anyone looks at it and still rants on about us being '17th in the form table' is beyond me.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Two years and £600 million spent on players are two other pretty big differences, surely?

ETH was a disaster in the transfer market but, that doesn't help Amorim though as he will probably never have the chance to spend that much.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Exactly.. There is another thread on our current squad. How can anyone look at it and think that it is a top 4 squad. We are struggling to put 11 experienced players on the field let alone playing different formations.

Can any manager come in and expected to do well with this squad? Do we have the speed to do a low block and counter-attack? Do we have the wingers to play a traditional 4-42? Are we imagining that Casemiro, Eriksen and Evans still have the legs to play full game every week in a physically demanding league?

Available experienced 11: Onana, Yoro, Maguire, Deligt, Lindelof, Evans, Dalot, Dorgu, Mazraoui, Ugarte, Bruno, Eriksen, Casemiro, Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho,


Goalkeepers
Onana
Heaton INJURED
Bayindir
Graczyk (Yt)
Harrison (Yt)

Defenders/Fullbacks/Wingbacks
Yoro
Maguire
DeLigt
Martinez INJURED
Lindelof
Evans
Shaw INJURED
Dalot
Dorgu
Mazraoui
Heaven (Yt)

Midfielders
Ugarte
Bruno
Eriksen
Casemiro
Collyer (Yt)
Mainoo INJURED
Mount INJURED

Forwards
Hojlund
Zirkzee
Amad INJURED
Garnacho
Chido (Yt)

On-loan
Antony (FW)
Rashford (FW)
Sancho (FW)

Collyer is also injured, I think Evans as well

 

[Zumbi]

But does it really matter? Amorim will have to make do with a majority of these very players, and if he can't we need someone that can

Yes, it does matter, because there will be some player turnover in the summer and a few really smart signings can easily make the team start looking very different.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I just don't see how we can fairly judge Amorim until the season is over even against these comparisons and considering at what position he took over.

It depends on what you mean by a fair judgment.

Jurgen Klopp is a great manager. But like all managers, he has weaknesses. One of his weaknesses is that his teams are capable of surprisingly low league finishes, as seen with Liverpool 8th place finish when he took over, 5th place finish in one of his last seasons, and Dortmund last season which was also 8th iirc. Those weaknesses do not mean his teams are incapable of great heights, but they exist, and can be criticized, and were criticized at the time.

Arteta has done a good job at Arsenal, but he is always coming up short. He came up short for basic objectives in their first two full seasons. Since then they've been in two title races in which they didn't win the title or even got a particularly high point tally, and this season they are looking like they've regressed. It's not unreasonable to think that he won't win a PL title, and if he doesn't those 8th place finishes aren't going to look like aberrations, they'll look like the mark of a manager who could never get that much extra out of his squad.

 

[Toshey]

Amorim doesn't need a full new starting 11.

Literally ONLY a competent striker will make us 5 times better.
Good goalkeeper and one more good fullback will make us 10 times better.

I think with just 3 signings we can be in top 6 mix easily.

 

[stevoc]

You don`t think the `It has to get worse before it gets better` idea applies here given the circumstances? I would have thought the board was prepared to back Amorim for longer given the way in which United has gone through 5 managers plus 2 interim ones and it`s brought United nowhere nearer to be at least looking like a force in the Premier League again.

I'm not sure that has to apply here or at any club. Some United fans have a weird fascination with the idea that we need to suffer through a certain period under a new manager and if we just keep the faith eventually everything will be ok. But football history shows us that few managers who go through a very poor period ever really turn it round to any great degree. Of the big problems post SAF that have brought United to where we currently find ourselves, not giving managers enough time isn't among them. Most likely the opposite in fact, we give managers way too much time, more than just about any other big club. Giving Ten Hag a year more than he deserved when it was obvious by Xmas 2023 he wasn't turning around the mess he'd made. Has in no small part contributed to the mess Amorim inherited. And those problems have compounded over the years.

And if Amorim goes by the end of this year, do you think any big name manager with proven success will agree to come? Some names have been mentioned but who is somebody that would be willing to come in the present club environment?

Yes, because the manager of Manchester United is still one of the top 3-5 paid jobs on the planet. All but a handful of managers would take a contract at United.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Exactly.. There is another thread on our current squad. How can anyone look at it and think that it is a top 4 squad. We are struggling to put 11 experienced players on the field let alone playing different formations.

Can any manager come in and expected to do well with this squad? Do we have the speed to do a low block and counter-attack? Do we have the wingers to play a traditional 4-42? Are we imagining that Casemiro, Eriksen and Evans still have the legs to play full game every week in a physically demanding league?

Available experienced 11: Onana, Yoro, Maguire, Deligt, Lindelof, Evans, Dalot, Dorgu, Mazraoui, Ugarte, Bruno, Eriksen, Casemiro, Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho,


Goalkeepers
Onana
Heaton INJURED
Bayindir
Graczyk (Yt)
Harrison (Yt)

Defenders/Fullbacks/Wingbacks
Yoro
Maguire
DeLigt
Martinez INJURED
Lindelof
Evans
Shaw INJURED
Dalot
Dorgu
Mazraoui
Heaven (Yt)

Midfielders
Ugarte
Bruno
Eriksen
Casemiro
Collyer (Yt)
Mainoo INJURED
Mount INJURED

Forwards
Hojlund
Zirkzee
Amad INJURED
Garnacho
Chido (Yt)

On-loan
Antony (FW)
Rashford (FW)
Sancho (FW)

Good post and alludes to what I said in this thread yesterday.

Furthermore, unconfirmed but also a possibility that Maguire, Evans and Collyer are all also injured with Garnacho having apparently carried a knock the last 2 games also.

 

[pocco]

Amorim doesn't need a full new starting 11.

Literally ONLY a competent striker will make us 5 times better.
Good goalkeeper and one more good fullback will make us 10 times better.

I think with just 3 signings we can be in top 6 mix easily.

I think we’ve got more pieces than we think, but we’re not seeing it because they’re having to be used in different ways than you’d ideally want. Eg…

Bruno at CM to help progress the ball instead of no10. But a good CM and you improve 2 positions.

Amad at RWB instead of 10 to provide width and threat out wide. Buy a RWB and improve 2 positions.

Then obviously a CF would make the world of difference. Hell even somebody like Mateta would be great compared to what we’re seeing.

 

[The Mitcher]

Not at big clubs they didn't. In fact, Moyes and Potter both flopped at United and Chelsea respectively, and neither took over mid season without the benefit of a summer of transfers and full training regimen to prepare their squads. Nor did they have to deal with this many prominent injuries, nor the absence of any viable strikers.

The answer to your second question is obviously yes. No one thought it was going to happen with only half a season and with Ten Hag's transfers.

Potter did take over Chelsea mid season.