Oh yeah I forgot about him! Probably the last person I should forget given the season..
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Yep. We're also about to sell/loan 2 of our only goal threats after selling another (McTominay) in the summer.
Many of our players are overrated here and wouldn't make top 10 first XIs.
Makes sense if its Ten Hag's alt account
If Rashford, Eriksen and Casemiro weren't finished, and Shaw and Mount weren't constantly injured, I'd agree with you.
Our central midfield is terrible. Ugarte is a good player, and Mainoo is a big talent, but that's it. And they're both inconsistent (for very understandable reasons).
Neither of our strikers are anywhere near good enough.
Bruno is a world class player at his best, but also unfortunately very inconsistent.
Amad and Garnacho are big talents, but they are also very young, and nowhere near ready to carry the attacking burden of this team (again, very understandable).
So what's left, exactly?
A LOT of hope is pinned on next summer; preseason and transfers. A lot of fans are sure it is gonna work.
Onana ...
A manager can't head into the next season after losing 15 games and expect to turn things around solely with preseason and four new signings. Has there ever been a case where this has actually worked? Ironically, winning the Europa League might be the saving grace.
As opposed to doing what? Panicking over an already lost season?
What's there to doubt if he already said this was part of the plan ages ago?
Who are these mysterious good players?
Onana is a donkey. Bayindir might be slightly better.
Harry is average to decent on his best day.
Licha is enigma - great on the ball, average to bad in defence.
De Light is decent.
Yoro is young.
Mazraoui is squad player.
Dalot is good on his day, terrible most of the time.
Shaw doesn't even exist.
Malacia is average.
Mainoo is young, has 3 bad games for 1 good.
Ugarte is decent-ish.
Bruno is good player with world class moments.
Eriksen is good, legs are gone.
Mount doesn't exist.
Casemiro is finished.
Amad is good and could develop even further.
Garnacho - see Mainoo.
Hojlund is average, has quality shot in him.
Zirkzee is average, can control a ball.
Put them together and you get 1 decent player.
On this list I see 2 good players, 2 decent, some squad options and 3-4 who give a performance from time to time.
How is this squad good by any measure?!
Onana is a donkey. Bayindir might be slightly better.
Harry is average to decent on his best day.
Licha is enigma - great on the ball, average to bad in defence.
De Light is decent.
Yoro is young.
Mazraoui is squad player.
Dalot is good on his day, terrible most of the time.
Shaw doesn't even exist.
Malacia is average.
Mainoo is young, has 3 bad games for 1 good.
Ugarte is decent-ish.
Bruno is good player with world class moments.
Eriksen is good, legs are gone.
Mount doesn't exist.
Casemiro is finished.
Amad is good and could develop even further.
Garnacho - see Mainoo.
Hojlund is average, has quality shot in him.
Zirkzee is average, can control a ball.
Put them together and you get 1 decent player.
On this list I see 2 good players, 2 decent, some squad options and 3-4 who give a performance from time to time.
How is this squad good by any measure?!
Utd have conceded only 2 goals more than City but scored 20 goals less. It’s clear where we need to strengthen to improve our league position.
He's shit too, obviously.
Why wouldn't his ideas start to take hold now or in March? He’s not gonna be able to buy 5 new players in July and there's no more room for practice next season than this. I would like to see more progress this season.
PSR prohibits an owner just injecting cash into the club. If it was just the owners than Newcastle would be the biggest spenders in the league.
Because any manager who comes here has to try and teach playing triangles to non-technical players who only know how to run blind alleys and blast the shit out of the ball. When has this squad even played good to start making demands this early? They looked like crap under the manager who assembled them. Even Ruud tried pragmatic tactics and gave them plenty training wheels and there was still no difference.
Great post. How I wish this was posted on every page of this thread to remind posters what Amorim is working with.
Yes, EtH had to work with the same, but he bought a good portion of them for big money. This is the worst United squad since Fergie (and hence the PL era), much worse than what Moyes, LvG, Mourinho, Ole and EtH had at their disposal.
We have very good options at CB, and Mazraoui and Dalot as LB and RB (not wingbacks) would have also been good in theory, with Malacia returning for depth.
Eriksen, Collyer and Casemiro would ultimately be squad players but we would certainly have enough with a spine of Bruno, Garnacho, Ugarte, Mainoo, Amad, De Ligt, Mazraoui, Maguire, Dalot to give the inexperienced signings some more breathing room.
Thats got more than enough quality for top 10. Ten hag got it with a lesser squad, unsustainable tactics and an injury crisis at defence last season and he's a fraud according to a lot of posters. It's not exactly unreasonable to expect the incoming manager to finish in the top 10 either.
Yup, and that is why I don't buy Amorim's public remarks. Next summer will not magically transform this team. We will suffer until we have bought 6-9 quality players. That will take a while and is not something Amorim can say.
You're right. If we had brought in someone like Iraola, De Zerbi or Tuchel who weren't wedded to a certain formation then we definitely have a squad that should be finishing in the European places. We however are in a situation now that a top half finish seems very difficult because we've got a manager whose system does not fit the players and instead of a mini overhaul we might need a full squad rebuild to be able to play it successfully which means more cash to be spent when the club isn't in that position. Same for if we'd brought in Inzaghi or Alonso.
Berrada should be the second one sacked if we have to sack Amorim any time within this season and next.
Where are you pulling these figures from? Wait, so who are your 6-9 starting xi players you're already certain of needing stylistic replacement and for sure can't adapt this early?
I also wasn't agreeing with that post.
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He got it with luck. We were fecking shite last season.
For the record I don't think Ten Hag is a "fraud", or even remotely solely responsible for our downfall these past years. And I actually respected and agreed with much of your defence of him during his tenure.
But what's the difference between finishing 8th and 15th this season anyway? We all know we need to rip out the spine of this team and rebuild regardless. Amorim has ostracized several senior players (Casemiro, Rashford, Eriksen, Lindelof, Antony), clearly sending a message to them to get the feck out. Would reintroducing the likes of Rashford and Casemiro get us more points this season? Perhaps. But so what?
I agree.
Just my opinion and mostly because they are not good enough.
WB and striker are absolutely necessary.
AM and CM are in the next wave.
Goalie and other WB next.
Then LCB and squad players.
So how do you explain our dire running stats over the last few seasons? And what media narrative are you on about? I've got a pair of eyes that tell me that our players get out fought and out run virtually every game, against players with less natural ability.
Asides a wingback most of these have nothing to do with tactics and needed eventual addressing with or without Amorim. That central strikeforce for example.
They should, but it's comparing a team against a collection of different types of players from three?, four? managers with different playing styles.
Wonderful post, this made me and many United fans chuckle so we have 5 players to build the squad round, oh dear we really are in a whole mire of trouble.
I have a slightly different view that most of the players would be average to decent playing for a much smaller team without the pressure associated with Man United. I think we lack genuine PL experience and a lot of younger players who are developing but very few have an elite Football IQ.
We’ve never had such a poor group of footballers that also seem such an odd bunch, just watch Zirkzee crazy gun celebrations when he does score which is very rare tbf!
Losing David De Gea to get what we currently have in goal is just madness, and I think we need to back Amorim and see what he can do, however he must be given a 1.5/1.6 point target per game in the PL so he must get to 50 points as a minimum this season to be here next season.
Ten Hag overperformed according to these stats. Weren‘t we 8th but should have finished 15th?
I think Amorim’s performance is closer to our real level. That is nothing against Amorim, but it is where we are.
Through a truly exceptional amount of luck. Ten Hag's team "should" have finished 15th last season according to Opta's expected points data - the biggest overperformance of any team in the league. All those late winners and other bits of fortune (starting in the very first game of the season with the Wolves penalty blunder) still only managed to drag largely this same squad to 8th. Luck like that doesn't last either and eventually the stats catch up with you - as they have in a big way this season. This is a mid-table team by any metric you care to bring up.
He overperformed our xG, but underperformed our squad in my opinion, if that makes sense
The midfield combination of Ugarte and Mainoo is an issue. It almost forces our team to go through the flanks or direct to the striker, as neither player is necessarily the best at creating space to receive the pass. In addition to this Mainoo actually struggles more in moving the ball as part of a team than Ugarte does when he receives it.
In a two man midfield, Mainoo would need to senior partner to to be a possession cycler like Rodri or Busquets, which would allow him the freedom to attack the space individually. Hardly any team has that, so as a result, it makes playing him in that position a massive struggle for our team. Where Collyer can move the ball and get into spaces quickly, Mainoo holds it and plays really slowly, unless when he's given space. Given that most of his skillset is attacking, I'd actually use him higher up the pitch.
I genuinely believe that with another midfield partner, we would look a whole lot better. I do think though that the ideal partner for Ugarte in this system would be a box to box midfielder.
One other aspect I would consider would be us playing through the flanks more often by converting the 2 tens into wingers. I liked what I saw from Garnacho midweek and we've all been facinated by Amad's play.
I personally don't think the squad is bad, but I do think that at the moment the pieces to play the system haven't been in play. I also think that our defence acclimatizing has had a bigger impact on our play than people realize. The Rangers game was the first where I saw CB's actually moving up the pitch to help in possession. I think with time and a few tweaks, we could look like a much better team.
I think the midfield requires a lot of energy, we don't have a natural left wing back and our strikers are really providing a scoring threat.
I would try to sign a box to box midfielder in the summer to compete with Bruno for the 8 role and have Collyer understudy Ugarte.
I'd sign an athletic left wing back.
Finally I would sign a striker who can present a legitimate box threat.
In a two man midfield, Mainoo would need to senior partner to to be a possession cycler like Rodri or Busquets, which would allow him the freedom to attack the space individually. Hardly any team has that, so as a result, it makes playing him in that position a massive struggle for our team. Where Collyer can move the ball and get into spaces quickly, Mainoo holds it and plays really slowly, unless when he's given space. Given that most of his skillset is attacking, I'd actually use him higher up the pitch.
I genuinely believe that with another midfield partner, we would look a whole lot better. I do think though that the ideal partner for Ugarte in this system would be a box to box midfielder.
One other aspect I would consider would be us playing through the flanks more often by converting the 2 tens into wingers. I liked what I saw from Garnacho midweek and we've all been facinated by Amad's play.
I personally don't think the squad is bad, but I do think that at the moment the pieces to play the system haven't been in play. I also think that our defence acclimatizing has had a bigger impact on our play than people realize. The Rangers game was the first where I saw CB's actually moving up the pitch to help in possession. I think with time and a few tweaks, we could look like a much better team.
I think the midfield requires a lot of energy, we don't have a natural left wing back and our strikers are really providing a scoring threat.
I would try to sign a box to box midfielder in the summer to compete with Bruno for the 8 role and have Collyer understudy Ugarte.
I'd sign an athletic left wing back.
Finally I would sign a striker who can present a legitimate box threat.
Considering the injury crisis we had, 8th was probably not an underperformance.
Ten Hag has said that during the crisis, he had to put in players who weren‘t matchfit regularly.
This season, Ten Hag underperformed, and that is why he is gone.
They hate the 3-4-3 formation and have been negative to Amorim from the get go.
Well said, totally agree.
Who would that be and how do you know that would be guaranteed?
What's not true?
The underlying stats for last season showed we should have finished 15th, just because we fluked a higher finish doesn't mean the players are as good as they finished.
Who and who? Anyway Ten Hag compromised his tactics for them and it got him fired and got us nowhere. They hate the formation as much as they hate their own lack of quality. They are not playing shit on purpose. They also looked horrible under pragmatic tactics. And If they are downing then all the more reason to leave. The likes of Rashford and Garnacho aren't that great tbh.
Doesn't he also play three at the back?
Then why, with these players you seem to like so much, were we 13th when ETH was booted? Surely if we are as good as you say we would have been higher?
But you'd need most, if not all of those in any formation.