Because they are bloody stupid and instead of chosing somebody who does suit the sqaud in the summer they made a daft decision and then let the daft decision spend even more money making the squad even more unsuitable for the guy they apprently didn't want in the summer for this precise reason. They either get him last summer and let him spend a bit of money to start a rebuild, let him come in this coming summer or get someone who could work with said players. We are run by idiots and it does not bode too well for the future.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
He was hired because of the job he was doing at Sporting and made it clear he had a system and style of play he would not shift away from. He’s obviously marked the players who need moving out and hasn’t been backed one bit in the market to get his way of playing to work
The fault lies with the owners at usual he can’t make Dalot a quality LWB that we obviously don’t have, he can’t turn Hojlund into Haaland in 2 months he’s working with a load of shite
I’m sick of the narrative that the players don’t suit the system.
Their professional footballs ffs, they can play in more than one position and play in a different style.
The whole squad are seasoned internationals, and many are experienced having played for numerous clubs around Europe.
There’s no excuse for that today, it’s just poor from all ends but we need to stop with the comment that players don’t suit the system and that being the reason we look so poor.
A good coach gets more out of the it’s playing squad and the coaching squad need to improve quickly.
Their professional footballs ffs, they can play in more than one position and play in a different style.
The whole squad are seasoned internationals, and many are experienced having played for numerous clubs around Europe.
There’s no excuse for that today, it’s just poor from all ends but we need to stop with the comment that players don’t suit the system and that being the reason we look so poor.
A good coach gets more out of the it’s playing squad and the coaching squad need to improve quickly.
We scraped a win against the worst team in the league last week, and only because one player went rogue and scored a hattrick almost on his own. Eriksen did provide a peach of an assist on o e goal, but the others were crafted out of thin air, not from any training ground mastermind 4D wolf chess.
Look Ruben deserves time but if we are not going to buy him at least 4/5 players that suit his system, he should be the one to pull the trigger himself as his reputation will be shot without any investment, he will only get 15/16 points from 15/16 PL matches if he doesn’t change and his current 27% PL win rate as Man United coach would not be acceptable after 20/30 games and the style of play being far too slow, will not be tolerated so it’s best he just quits himself to keep his reputation intact.
I watched a lot of sporting and he genuinely elevated good players to great and average players to good. But everything with Amorim’s sporting was about the collective and team shape, he had that team working in triangular partnerships no more than 10/15 yards apart so his 3421 was incredible flexible and robust and it became, when they attacked down the Right, a sweeping movement from RCB, to CB, to RM all joining in the build up then they move the ball through the thirds with RWB, R10, CF but there was multiply third man runs from midfield and even Wide CB’s.
The collective as an outfield 10 moved all round the pitch in Spinning triangular movement almost seamlessly.
Now when you look at this current United side it’s not 3421 but instead more 5221 and due to the wing backs and Centre Backs being generally slow, they drop far too deep and then there is far too much space for a 4 man defence to come out, then play out and 1 or 2 defenders join the midfield and then create multiple overloads even though we have 5 men almost lined up in a flat line, there are still loads of spaces.
Amorim can not continue to set up last this he needs to pick attacking wide Players like Amad at Right wing back and and give Harry Amass a go at left wing back.
He can’t do any worse right now, maybe play Collyer and Ugarte in a mobile midfield 2 so they can dominate the ball and give simple passes to Amad and Amass, we really need a CF and a left wing back desperately but that’s not happening so Ruben needs to give at least two youth players a chance, I’d call up Chido and Ibragimov into the squad too to give us something different, just so we can get to 40 points, then I would review Amorim’s position, if he wins Europa , keep him if not go get Iraola whose proving with much less resources he’s doing a far better job!
Sounds prophetic to some but under SAF people knew how Ronaldo and Rooney would play it's just the quality of our players in question.
City getting away with it and a knee jerk sacking here (won’t happen) and I’ll probably take a step back from football for a bit.
You've watched our players right?
* "we knew how shite they would be and knew how to prepare for that".
Go and watch that Liverpool game again. We've been poor in plenty of games under Amorim so far, but that's not the one. It was not a "smash and grab" win but much more even and we were better in some periods of that game.
Arsenal were the better side after the red card. We did play that one defensively but were a man down ever since 60th minute.
Our problem so far wasn't City, Arsenal or Liverpool game. It was all the other games, especially at home where we struggle to control and dominate games better.
Bad form continues, he will be sacked. Its the way it goes.
Wing backs are our problem.
Amad is our best wing back but he's also one of the only outlets up front so he ends up playing as a 10.
Although when set up negatively like today with 5 at the back since both WBs are so defensive we then have zero width at all outside of our own box.
Amad is our best wing back but he's also one of the only outlets up front so he ends up playing as a 10.
Although when set up negatively like today with 5 at the back since both WBs are so defensive we then have zero width at all outside of our own box.
Yes sorry 18*.
Im not saying ten hag was good at these things. I'm laughing at posters claiming we have this type of form under Amorim because ten hag scared the players
Is this quote true, or just United Stand trolling?
Yeah that’s it. Ineos knew he was going to stick with this, they identified it as an issue with hiring him in the summer. They have to back him because this whole situation is of their own making.
I personally don’t think the formation is necessarily the issue, I think we’d just go back to having zero control over games and being overrun in midfield if we went back to 4231.
Unfortunately I think all we can do is buckle in and ride ride this season out, and hope we don’t get ourselves into trouble.
The last part of your post is a bit of a concern for me as well but I don't know if I'd blame it entirely on the shape. I would've hoped Amorim would get more out of some of those players given how bad the previous manager was, but it's also evident that we've recruited poorly over the last few years and the squad he's inherited has a pretty low baseline in both physical and technical levels.
I can't say I'm 100% on board with Amorim based on what I've seen on the pitch so far. There are a couple of personnel decisions he's made that I don't really understand, but there has been a consistent theme of our players looking fragile - even when van Nistelrooy employed a more structured, conventional shape during his interim run.
I don't think it's too much of an issue to let Amorim continue playing 3-4-2-1 if that's what the wants to do but it's important the recruitment team don't sign players if they feel they can only play in that system. There should be an overarching style that comes from the top which is flexible enough that our squad should be able to survive a system change or a managerial change if either of those things ever happen.
Probably the only thing I agree with them on if they have doubts over the managers long term future.
Specialist players like wingbacks become surplus to requirements if the next manager plays 433.
This then turns into an even bigger joke as there were reports that senior management would decide on how we play and then get a manager who implements that.
It raises the question on why we paid 10 mill for Amorim then and what discussions were had about formation
The suffering one
I’d have opted for Amad as a wing-back. He’s arguably our most dangerous player, and statistically, he has fewer touches in the 10 role. His attacking output is significantly better than Mazraoui’s, who, in my view, is more suited to playing as a right centre-back.
I’d also have moved Bruno back into the pivot. After Eriksen, he has the best passing range and creativity in the squad.
I’d have put Eriksen in the inside forward role, with Garnacho and Zirkzee up top.
Eriksen might not have the legs for a pivot role, but if you push him higher up the pitch, his creativity shines. He played brilliantly in a similar 3421 formation for Denmark during the Euros.
I’m not suggesting these changes would have guaranteed a win, but at least it would’ve shown more attacking intent.
Zirkzee
Garnacho Eriksen
Dalot Bruno Ugarte Amad
Martinez Maguire Mazraoui
Onana
Amad should start at RWB until the end of the season. That should be his permament position until new signings are made.
Maz and Dalot are too defensive.
Having an extra attacker will give teams something else to think about.
Maz and Dalot are too defensive.
Having an extra attacker will give teams something else to think about.
Just to clarify I don't think they'll sack him right now but closer towards the seasons end. I said before he managed a competitive game that the worst thing for Amorim coming in mid-term is to run out of rope before the seasons end.
That's exactly what's happening, we have to be objective the team were a super substitution away from losing comfortably to the worst team in the league.
As stated before, I like Amorims ideas and his persona but INEOS have given him the worst deck of cards to make a winning hand from. I was disappointed with the club getting rid of LVG at the time they did and if Ruben is sacked he'll have the same sympathy from me.
The Ashworth situation has almost removed my confidence in INEOS, even if it was the right decision it still shows frailties in their leadership. Managers can mess up and virtually every member of staff to the lowest level but when the hierarchy are demonstrating things like hesitation, uncertainty and lacking conviction they are done.
True, but these players don’t listen to anyone or they struggle to adapt.
Christ, can see why he loves Jose.
Wing backs overlapping with the 2 behind the striker would be lethal if we get a top striker and wing backs.
It's a personnel issue not a "weird system" we have had shit standards and lazy players for too long.
We are changing from a counter attacking reactive team to one that can press and dominate. You won't get there in 3 months with little training and transfers.
We are 7 months into Berrada and co being in their posts.
Relax.
Yes and I refuse to believe seasoned professionals and internationals can’t adapt to a new system or that the set of players today, should be in a relegation battle, getting dominated at home by teams like Brighton and Southampton.
Yeah, I don't know why some people think Amorim is the first manager in history to be immune to the sack?
If we keep losing games and playing like shit, he will be gone. The only question is how long the bad run has to last before they pull the trigger.
I hope he turns it around because I really like him as a personality. He's the kind of person I want to see succeed.
We won the game in the end and deserved it. That's what matters.
The team is awful, but relegation talk is just unnecessary panic. You just have to look at the three teams in the relegation zone to realize that it isn't happening this season. Which one of Ipswich and Leicester do you see catching us?
So you think Amorim will be sacked without having a window where he’s got money to spend?
His job is to win games by getting the best out if his players. His job is not to use a specific formation.
Did you read it in a tweet?
They are a right bunch of contrary Marys on here.
I sense the hivemind at work
Ouch
as it stands, we're 10 points clear, Southampton are down, Leicester are struggling, Ipswich have only 3 wins in 22 so far, Wolves have a horrible run of fixtures coming up.
ETH, those two trophies aside, was an utter utter disaster of a manager here.
His signings will have long lasting ramifications for the club.
To spend what he did on Casemiro, Hojlund, Mount, Onana and Antony in particular was just inexcusable. We've been bad post Fergie I know but his time here really sped up our demise.
feck knows how Amorim fixes it.
His signings will have long lasting ramifications for the club.
To spend what he did on Casemiro, Hojlund, Mount, Onana and Antony in particular was just inexcusable. We've been bad post Fergie I know but his time here really sped up our demise.
feck knows how Amorim fixes it.
I am not expecting him to copy what he did in sporting. Different leagues, different players , conditions. May be this man utd could win Portuguese league , who knows.
Hojlund will never turn into Haaland and for that matter if Haaland plays in our team he would not be same player as he is at city.
So there is no point in comparing and while I agree he needs better Lwb than Dalot to win league , to win against smaller teams / draw against mid teams this squad is enough.