I think we currently play a system that only suits the profile of 2 players - Maguire and Ugarte. Bruno is better as a sole 10, Garnacho is better as a LW, Amad is better as a RW, Mainoo is better in the double pivot, Maz and Dalot are better fullbacks than wingbacks and Martinez is better in a two. We are currently running an extraordinary experiment where the job of the manager isn’t to play players in areas of the pitch aimed to get the best out of them and thus the team in an effort to get results - that’s apparently beneath Manchester United and is for lesser clubs - here the job of the manager is to actively put players in positions where they don’t fit every week and mainly lose - and we’re doing this to build strong foundations for 18 months time when we presumably have a nigh on completely different squad to reap the benefits. It’s pretty absurd. This isn’t even a rant against Amorim - the club knew he was never going to deviate from his approach - but so far it is a total disaster outside of two results and unless we get wingbacks and a 10 in the next few weeks it’ll continue to be one. This was already a very average squad when we played 4-2-3-1 but feck me it’s a downright bad squad in Amorim’s system.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
The only difference between us and Spurs right now is we will have the same manager after tomorrow.
And with what money.Or what we sack him?Can’t believe we’ve got people who think he should be given the boot soon. Love to know what absolute idiot people would like to see replace him and try and serve something decent up with the slop he has to use.
We can spend money but we will need to sign players who are still developing at lower prices and then wait for them to develop. The way Dortmund do it etc.
But you are right, if we are sticking to signing 50,60,70 million pound players then we are fecked, 100%
We really need to start utilising the academy if we’re not going to spend any money because we can NOT keep persisting with Dalot or Mazraoui as left wing back or struggling with our strikers not scoring goals.
I’m bored of hearing Amass isn’t ready yet has been on the bench countless times and we don’t have another left footed wing back at the club or how Kukonki and Obi-Martin are generational talents yet don’t get minutes despite are problems in those positions and the reality is none of them would do a worse job than the first team players do.
I simply don’t believe there isn’t enough money to bring Alvaro Carreras back on his buy back clause or there isn’t enough to bring Douglas Luiz in on loan or we can identify a single fecking forward available to loan until the summer, either use the academy or bring people in as we’re going to hover above relegation all season otherwise.
I’m bored of hearing Amass isn’t ready yet has been on the bench countless times and we don’t have another left footed wing back at the club or how Kukonki and Obi-Martin are generational talents yet don’t get minutes despite are problems in those positions and the reality is none of them would do a worse job than the first team players do.
I simply don’t believe there isn’t enough money to bring Alvaro Carreras back on his buy back clause or there isn’t enough to bring Douglas Luiz in on loan or we can identify a single fecking forward available to loan until the summer, either use the academy or bring people in as we’re going to hover above relegation all season otherwise.
My gripe with Amorim is he does not inject any urgency in our play and his in game subs today was just odd.
He has players capable of doing better and as it stands we are worse under him than we were under Ten Hag. I don't think we were ever as bad as getting 4pts out of a possible 36.
I just can’t take seriously people who excused Ten Hag for years sharpening their knives for Amorim already.
It wasn't that long ago people argued we should have kept RuudOr what we sack him?
When will we learn? The club is rotten to the core. No manager will be successful until that's changed.
I'm not saying we should sack him now. I'm saying it's time for management to be upfront and firm with him that this is unacceptable and it must start to change immediately. Give him a chance to turn it around.Or what we sack him?
So our next 5 league games and 3 are below us?
Last edited:
His in game management is night and day with the previous manager though, today subs didn’t work, but it’s a bizarre thing to pick at him over.
This might have already been done in private though? He’s got a chance to turn it around, obviously? He’s going nowhere.
He has to be thinking what have a taken on here? such a rudderless,leaderless and error prone group of Man United players. Old Trafford has become the theatre of nightmares for us supporters and the the theatre of dreams for the opposition
I'm not sure the bolded is true in this case. Surely if the club wanted a coach to come in and get results straight away they wouldn't have appointed a coach new to the league who has seemingly been given the task of implementing a completely new system.
Amorim has said several times that this season will be difficult. We need to actually rebuild the squad, I don't like to harp on about how bad the players are too much but we have like one and a half attackers who are good enough for the league.
At least he has a clear system he’s trying for. It’s been fairly effective in all the big away games so far. It won’t work consistently until he has the right personnel. This could take 2-3 years. I want us to have a high ceiling.
I find it bizarre people wanted him to come in and try and rejig the current squad to immediately improve results. This squad is only capable of pushing for top 4/6 and then it would just hit the same cycle. We’ve seen that for years now, they’re absolutely shite. Judge him once he’s had 4-5 transfer windows and we might find ourselves in our best place for 15 years, even if we have to put up with being genuinely midtable for a while. Klopp and Arteta both had extremely high losing statistics at one point and it took them 2-3 years to compete for the league title.
I find it bizarre people wanted him to come in and try and rejig the current squad to immediately improve results. This squad is only capable of pushing for top 4/6 and then it would just hit the same cycle. We’ve seen that for years now, they’re absolutely shite. Judge him once he’s had 4-5 transfer windows and we might find ourselves in our best place for 15 years, even if we have to put up with being genuinely midtable for a while. Klopp and Arteta both had extremely high losing statistics at one point and it took them 2-3 years to compete for the league title.
I'd hope so. But Berrada is in a very tricky position given Amorim was his pick.
They are clowns and don’t even know it themselves.
People seem to have such short memories. They will cry about the manger, get excited about whoever replaces him, and then turn on him a few months later.
Did he? Did playing with basically one midfielder and the rest of the front six pressing high suit our players? Or did it just create huge gaps that exposed the weaknesses of our slow, ageing midfielders and less than pacey defenders?
Ten Hag's interpretation of what was best for our squad was very questionable. In reality, playing a mid-to-low block and using pace in behind is probably what suits this squad best. We've not done that since Ten Hag got a chastener at Brentford in his first season and just accepted where we're at. His desire to fast track towards something else blew up any chance we had of being competitive for Europe in subsequent seasons.
As for Amorim's system, well, if you think Ole ball is probably what this lot are best at you can see the issue with what Amorim's trying to do.
I think Tuchel would. 433 with wingers.
Our squad isn't worse than Southamptons who outplayed us at home.
True. Sometimes I have to remind myself of the brains some on here have. It’s simply not worth the debate often.I despair reading some of these posts, it's bad at the moment but my God it's like some are enjoying it so they can shit on the manager.Hes been dealt a very bad hand, everyman and his dog knows this but yeah let's sack him after 2 months.
I disagree. I didnt understand the subs vs Southampton either.
It's obvious Collyer is not a ball carrier and that we couldn't knit the play together vs the Brighton midfield. No one needed hindsight to know these subs wouldnt work. Just like no one needed it to know that hojlund would be worse than Zirkzee going forward.
I’m sorry but this is catastophising, we aren’t getting relegated and we aren’t getting into Europe, so we need to focus on getting the team playing the way he wants.
He simply is not getting the sack
That’s your reading. I don’t think he is at all? You seem to think everyone operates on a knee jerk snap decision mentality.
We heard this from opposition manager quite a few times under EtH, no?
The same senior management that hired a manager who didn’t want to come until next summer then didn’t back him the the transfer window with players he needs to suit the system he was brought in to play
Feck me wake up he’s been hung out to dry. He’s identified players who need shifting and has been given no support to do the job
We have a RB playing LWB in a system that completely relies on the wing backs for support it’s the equivalent of putting Harry Maguire in midfield, we have problems with the keeper, we had around 300m worth of failed transfer signings sat on the bench and our highest paid player is essentially missing because he cba to play the game of football to any real standard
We have owners who have riddled the club with debt then a new footballing management team who have done nothing but make feckup after feckup with the ETH extension then the hiring and sacking of Ashworth
It’s a massive mess
At least get draws ffs. It’s embarrassing to lose a match with 3 goals when we have 5 in the back.
It does look bad doesn’t it. To be honest, I don’t think the philosophy between Jose, Ole and EtH was that different, they were just variations on the transition game that we’ve been playing for so many years and as Amorim said recently it’s really all this club knows in its recent history. We’re seemingly set on correcting that with Amorim but it’s off to a very very rocky start. It’s hard to be optimistic.
Or what we sack him?
I think many who are defending Amorim need to realise the incompetence of those who supercede him. INEOS are 100% sacking him if results don't improve. Amorim doesn't have the employment conditions in assessing time through his contract to oversee a rebuild.
As soon as August comes he's got two summer windows, two summer windows to take this team competitively to a top four place and replace various players whilst also having to wait for newer players to adjust to his demands. He's done at United and it's really not entirely his fault I think there's partiality between Amorim's owns responsibilities but what's coming light more and more is how bad INEOS is.
They will sack him.
I’ll say it again, you all think the mental damage of having Ten Hag allow teams to steam roll us consistently for 2 years is fixable overnight? The anxiety in our play is there for all the see, most of these players are totally done at this level. They will never mentally recover.
Baffling to see the overreaction here and people taking the easy route and blaming Amorim and the system after a few losses. The problem in this team is the poor transfers under Ten Hag. We have managed to spend 600 million + to build a team that does not have the required technical, physical and mental ability under Ten Hag. Here are the players bought under ten hag:
- GK - Onana - not good enough, has made massive howlers. Not able to command his box, one of the reasons we are so poor at defending set pieces.
- GK - Altay Bayindir - A backup that cannot be trusted.
- CB - Lenny Yoro - young , still needs to learn. Poor aerially,
- CB - Lisandro Martinez - Too short and slow for a Defender, Cannot compete aerially, one of the reasons we are so poor at defending set pieces.
- CB - Matthis De Ligt - Not as good as expected. Poor aerially, one of the reasons we are poor at defending set pieces.
- CB - Jonny Evans - Good but too old. Currently Injured
- RB - Noussair Mazraoui - Good defensively and good passer. but poor attacker.
- LB - Tyrell Malacia - Poor
- MF - Manuel Ugarte - First season, has been good defensively. But poor attacker.
- MF - Casemiro - Good first season, good defensively but has lost his legs.
- MF - Eriksen - Good first season, good offensively but has lost his legs.
- AM - Mason Mount - Not good enough, injured, waste of money. Currently Injured
- CF - Rasmus Hojlund - Young, poor movement and poor hold up play. Not at required level to lead the line. Very poor aerially.
- CF - Joshua Zirkzee - First season. Good technically and hold up play but lacks the required pace and athleticism. Very poor aerially.
- RW - Antony - Worst signing of our club.
Of these 15 players how many have the required physical and technical quality to be automatic starters for a premier league club based on their current ability, not past achievements or future potential? De light, Martinez(?), Mazraoui , Ugarte, Mount(?).
Lets look at the players that were already present at the club when Ten Hag joined or were promoted during the academy during his tenure:
- Diogo Dalot - RB - Good RB but has been used at LB where he has been poor.
- Luke Shaw - LB - Excellent when fit but too injury prone. Currently Injured
- Harry Maguire - CB - Excellent aerially and good defender.
- Victor Lindelof - CB - Good aerially but average defender. too slow. Currently Injured
- Kobbie Mainoo - CM - has been good in some games but seems to be lacking physically.
- Bruno Fernandes - AM - One of our better players.
- Toby Collyer - DM - has had good cameos. needs to start a few games to see if he is good enough at this level.
- Marcus Rashford - LW - Good pace and good goalscorer but poor workrate and decisionmaking.
- Alejandro Garnacho - LW - good workrate, poor decision making.
- Amad diallo - RW - currently one of our best players under amorim.
Of these 9 players how many have the required physical and technical quality to be automatic starters for a premier league club based on current ability? Diogo dalot, Luke Shaw(?), Maguire, Fernandes, Rashford, Garnacho, Diallo, Lindelof(?).
What I feel would be the best team if everyone were available for 3-4-3 system. Onana(GK) , Dalot (RWB), Maguire(CB), De ligt (RCB) , Martinez (LCB), Shaw (LWB) , Ugarte(DM), Casemiro(DM), Bruno(RAM), Diallo (LAM), Rashford(CF).
Of our best team we have Casemiro , Rashford who are currently on the process of being sold. Shaw who is injured.
Our biggest problem imo with the current squad is the lack of good left wingback and lack of good striker. Other than maguire, the current defense and goalkeepers are poor aerially and other teams have found that out. Every set piece is a farce now.
It is unfortunate that because of shit acquisition during the ten hag era, we do not have enough money to go and buy players. I think buying a Left Wingback and a premier league quality striker would solve a lot of problems.
- GK - Onana - not good enough, has made massive howlers. Not able to command his box, one of the reasons we are so poor at defending set pieces.
- GK - Altay Bayindir - A backup that cannot be trusted.
- CB - Lenny Yoro - young , still needs to learn. Poor aerially,
- CB - Lisandro Martinez - Too short and slow for a Defender, Cannot compete aerially, one of the reasons we are so poor at defending set pieces.
- CB - Matthis De Ligt - Not as good as expected. Poor aerially, one of the reasons we are poor at defending set pieces.
- CB - Jonny Evans - Good but too old. Currently Injured
- RB - Noussair Mazraoui - Good defensively and good passer. but poor attacker.
- LB - Tyrell Malacia - Poor
- MF - Manuel Ugarte - First season, has been good defensively. But poor attacker.
- MF - Casemiro - Good first season, good defensively but has lost his legs.
- MF - Eriksen - Good first season, good offensively but has lost his legs.
- AM - Mason Mount - Not good enough, injured, waste of money. Currently Injured
- CF - Rasmus Hojlund - Young, poor movement and poor hold up play. Not at required level to lead the line. Very poor aerially.
- CF - Joshua Zirkzee - First season. Good technically and hold up play but lacks the required pace and athleticism. Very poor aerially.
- RW - Antony - Worst signing of our club.
Of these 15 players how many have the required physical and technical quality to be automatic starters for a premier league club based on their current ability, not past achievements or future potential? De light, Martinez(?), Mazraoui , Ugarte, Mount(?).
Lets look at the players that were already present at the club when Ten Hag joined or were promoted during the academy during his tenure:
- Diogo Dalot - RB - Good RB but has been used at LB where he has been poor.
- Luke Shaw - LB - Excellent when fit but too injury prone. Currently Injured
- Harry Maguire - CB - Excellent aerially and good defender.
- Victor Lindelof - CB - Good aerially but average defender. too slow. Currently Injured
- Kobbie Mainoo - CM - has been good in some games but seems to be lacking physically.
- Bruno Fernandes - AM - One of our better players.
- Toby Collyer - DM - has had good cameos. needs to start a few games to see if he is good enough at this level.
- Marcus Rashford - LW - Good pace and good goalscorer but poor workrate and decisionmaking.
- Alejandro Garnacho - LW - good workrate, poor decision making.
- Amad diallo - RW - currently one of our best players under amorim.
Of these 9 players how many have the required physical and technical quality to be automatic starters for a premier league club based on current ability? Diogo dalot, Luke Shaw(?), Maguire, Fernandes, Rashford, Garnacho, Diallo, Lindelof(?).
What I feel would be the best team if everyone were available for 3-4-3 system. Onana(GK) , Dalot (RWB), Maguire(CB), De ligt (RCB) , Martinez (LCB), Shaw (LWB) , Ugarte(DM), Casemiro(DM), Bruno(RAM), Diallo (LAM), Rashford(CF).
Of our best team we have Casemiro , Rashford who are currently on the process of being sold. Shaw who is injured.
Our biggest problem imo with the current squad is the lack of good left wingback and lack of good striker. Other than maguire, the current defense and goalkeepers are poor aerially and other teams have found that out. Every set piece is a farce now.
It is unfortunate that because of shit acquisition during the ten hag era, we do not have enough money to go and buy players. I think buying a Left Wingback and a premier league quality striker would solve a lot of problems.
Well it's not exactly a fecking closely guarded secret is it?
Yeah, it's incredible that we concede so easily when we line up so defensively/negatively.
For me it's really hard to judge how Amorim is doing.
Like we weren't bad in the first half. It was fine. Yeah 2nd half we were getting dominated but it wasn't beyond salvage. And then you have a clanger. Which has happened repeatedly. At what point does Amorim have responsibility for the individual clangers if ever? I don't know.
I am just rambling now but we weren't even that bad or anything and yet lost fairly easily 3-1 at home.
Like we weren't bad in the first half. It was fine. Yeah 2nd half we were getting dominated but it wasn't beyond salvage. And then you have a clanger. Which has happened repeatedly. At what point does Amorim have responsibility for the individual clangers if ever? I don't know.
I am just rambling now but we weren't even that bad or anything and yet lost fairly easily 3-1 at home.
He will not be sacked.