Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

maximus419 said:
I get sick and tired of people making excuses for managers. He's come to Utd because he's been tasked with the job of coaching these players to get results, simple as that. Whilst this might not be a great Manchester Untied team, there are still many internationals on the pitch who look a lot better for their country than they do at Utd. How is that, how are these players still good enough for their coubtry but at the same time everyone is saying the players are all terrible?

A managers job is to get the best out of the players, to set them up with the best chance of getting a result. Right now it looks from an outsider, that Amorim is a rookie coach, still trying to grasp what the PL is about, whilst simultaneously trying to implement a formation that the players are obviously not trusting. It's a recipe for disaster and it's proving so with performances and results. I wasn't expecting miracles and an unbeaten run, but I did expect far better than what's been served up to now.

We've been here too many times before where the manager is too stubborn and thinks todays the day things turn around, but they never ever do. If we're waiting until he gets his perfect squad, we'll wait an enternity because it isn't happening. So we must get someone in who knows the PL, is proven at a big club and go again.
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Great post, well said.
 
Jezpeza said:
Very difficult question to answer that one.

In my opinion, we are going to have to try and get our recruitment to a level like Dortmund or Brighton etc.

Identify and sign players who are going to get big. But then when they do we wont be under pressure to sell them like a feeder club. We’ll have to suffer a bit in terms of expectation while they develop.

I mean, off the top of my head, we sniffed around Haaland, Caicedo and Bellingham when they were at Molde, Independiente and Birmingham. We didnt get them but it is the right approach. You see this lad Nypan about to go to Arsenal, we should be after him.

We’ve tried a decade of signing a handful of 40-80m players at a rate that it takes a manager 2or3 years to build a first 11. And then you get flops and it has financially ruined the club.

If we carry on that road we aren't ever getting out of what we have become. Amorim will be replaced by someone else who will be replaced by someone else whilst we stand still/go backwards
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Feel the same way. It’s going to be a very painful journey and a lot of fans will turn on the manager. Things are so bad that even if we could we can’t buy our way out of this mess.

I still stand by Amorim , he knows the issues and will act on them he just doesn’t have many options open to him at the moment.

We need money which means selling players , he can’t drop everyone and promote youth because the players value will plummet even further. He can’t request transfers because we are skint.

The reality is setting in that it’s going to be a long road with pretty much baby steps for progress.

Today was genuinely disappointing even though we are used to bad results this one is more hard to swallow because we were not blown away it was carelessness and a lack of cutting edge.
 
I am genuinely interested what the intention was behind the double switch of our midfield today. I don't criticize him for it, but I'd love to know what the idea behind that was. Good teams like Brighton see us and know us better than the average fan around here. They know where to apply pressure to hurt us. I think, today showed that, we never got into any form of rhythm. I think, the more a team tries to play to their strength instead of into our weaknesses, the better for us. But the smaller teams won't do us this favor.
 
If his system (not the formation), as the final product, is as rigid as it looks in these early days - with minimal positional rotations - God help us, because he won't need 11 new players, but 25.
 
LordSpud said:
If anyone's expecting INEOS to drop £100m+ this summer they are in for a shock. We will still be in a sell to buy problem supplemented by maybe £30m-£50m?

INEOS won't be wanting to squander any money for at least 3 years.
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They will have no option but to sell £100m of players and spend £160-200m or the club will be in a place beyond redemption?
 
Rockets Redglare said:
Your argument doesn’t wash when you’re naming teams that hammered us under Ten Hag as well.
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Ten Hag certainly had hammering but he didn't lose 6 out of 7 or whatever Amorim is on, with all of his games being at Old Trafford bar the Liverpool fixture.

This type of form is basically the worst of ten hag on steroids.
 
Chip said:
Is it safe to start questioning the manager without getting shamed on here or do we need to have a bit more patience?
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I think it's correct that we start questioning him.

It's clear that he inherited a mess but we now look significantly worse than we did under Ten Hag. His only saving grace has been Amad. He's made him look better. From what I can see, that's the only example of him having a positive impact on the squad.
 
United are entering the final 3rd of this season, plus the entire of last season. They just can't score goals, apart from mistakes and nicking it during a high press.

That's Amorim's biggest problem to fix.
 
A five-defender formation with a two-man midfield is being consistently exposed and the opposition keeps driving through our midfield same as Ten Hag. While this setup might have been effective in the Portuguese league, where the gap between top and bottom teams is vast, Premier League is far less forgiving.
 
Daily_Blind said:
You make a good point. I mean look at our current squad. Our best player is someone we signed as a youngster who was identified as up and coming and who we loaned out to play in the Championship initially. Need to identify and recruit up and coming talent on the cusp of being good/great.
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I think he was ready sooner but ETH just didn't like him.

We also need better utilisation of our youth. Look at Elanga - do Antony and Sancho offer any more than him? Why were they signed?

We sold jonny evans for about £6m and proceeded to buy Bailly, Lindelof, Rojo, Maguire etc over the years. Did they provide the ~ £175m value laid out on them?

We create all of our own problems.
 
He’s the right man in the wrong moment. He wanted to come in the summer so he could get his plan across in pre season and sign players to suit the system but was told now or never

Yet another feck up by the board we should have wrapped Amorim up for the summer and let Ruud carry on with the interim job he was doing
 
He has to stop being so defensive & stop starting five defenders. The two WB's don't have an attacking bone in their body and Maz has gone from one our best players to one of our worst since he starting playing him at RWB. The worst part is that it's not providing us with any defensive solidity either. We look as open and as stupid defending as ever.

Needs to stop being a pussy and play at least one of the wingers at WB's.
 
I think sometimes he needs to be more aggressive and pressure to the referees. We are tried seeing those biased and non-sense decisions made by the referees.
 
It's a tough one.

I love Amorim, his personality and emotional intelligence shine through.

He's not had enough time on the training pitch to draw any conclusions on his coaching abilities.

However, my personal dilemma is that I a constantly torn between two thoughts...

1. Amorim needs to stick to his guns, because changing to accommodate the players is a road to nowhere

BUT

2. Good teams don't become good teams by being dogmatic. You evolve from a solid base. We should be getting the basics right, and THEN working on dominating possession, territory etc...

I can't help but keep thinking...very limited teams like Forest and Bournemouth have shown that organisation goes a long long way. Could we not just make ourselves hard to beat first, and build from there? Is it really necessary to try to play like an elite side, when we're clearly not?
 
Rockets Redglare said:
But who else is he meant to pick? Until last week Bayindir was called the worst goalkeeper ever seen in a United team and we had no other option on the bench other than Antony who could possibly offer us something going forward.
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Bayindir has made maybe five United appearances? Hasn’t looked great outside of recent cup heroics, but can’t be any worse than Onana.

As far as Antony, it’s insane to think that there’s not a single player in our reserves or academy system that offers more than he does. Rashford is nowhere to be seen, but Antony still getting minutes?
 
Feel sorry for him as he's been dealt a really tough hand. I understand why he asked can it wait until the summer.

No money to change things, no training time to get players coached on system. Not sacking ETH in the summer has set United back a few years with the players bought

There will be the usual fans that will turn on him but I think we have to back him and if we're still in the same position this time next season then he'll be gone or have walked and we'll be back to square one again.
 
VP89 said:
Stop brushing this on ETH. He has players capable of not being slapped up by Brighton, Bournemouth, Forrest, Wolves, Newcastle all at home and to not need individual brilliance from Amad to scrape through Southampton.

He needs to be better than this even when we apply the context that he's only been here 3 months. He said this himself when he joined, he will need time but you win time by winning games.
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You need to stop being stubborn. Your idol ETH is so bad to lay the huge damage to the squad. As always, almost none of your suggestions or analysis has anything meaningful to the game. Give Ruben time and acknowledge how bad ETH has been to construct such a bad squad by spending so much money.
 
Nep77 said:
A five-defender formation with a two-man midfield is being consistently exposed and the opposition keeps driving through our midfield same as Ten Hag. While this setup might have been effective in the Portuguese league, where the gap between top and bottom teams is vast, Premier League is far less forgiving.
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Exactly we are not playing a compact 3421 system but a disjointed 5221 system which allows team to easily play through the press which is currently non existent plus through the midfield and down the sides, of these players can not follow his instructions then he needs to promote youth players and drill them more frequently.
 
city-puma said:
You need to stop being stubborn. Your idol ETH is so bad to lay the huge damage to the squad. As always, almost none of your suggestions or analysis has anything meaningful to the game. Give Ruben time and acknowledge how bad ETH has been to construct such a bad squad by spending so much money.
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Im not being stubborn, you're resorting to name calling for no reason outside to instigate a fight.

Do we have a squad better than the trash form we've shown under Amorim? It's obviously yes. He should be doing better so stop trying to excuse him for it.
 
kouroux said:
It doesn't compute how the man has only 1 way of playing football.
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My hope is it's a bit like my excuse for Ange last year. He's just getting the principles set and the he can be more flexible and pragmatic when everyone understands the core message/ principles.

Gives him a lot of rope though and we basically have to just expect bad results this season.
 
On the attacking front, the big.issue we have is that our moves are breaking down right before the final hurdle because of player quality. This results in us not creating anything.

Dalot x 3, Bruno x 3, Zirkzee x 1, all in very promising positions and absolutely scuppered it. With better players, those are goals.

Defensively, we don't have a single player on the pitch that can match Brighton physically. Baleba, Minteh, Pedro, Ayiri, Welbeck and Mitoma are all physically superior to our players. You've got no chance when that's the case
 
Werewolf said:
I am more sickened by the predictable dumb overreaction and impatience of some people here than by the actual performance and result. Time to stay away from the internet.
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Same. For some reason I come on here after games, and most of the time I just leave again because this forum is mostly populated by toddlers throwing tantrums.
 
Our conundrum is that once again, the club decided to hire a manager whose system is a complete 180 from that of his predecessor, and therefore requires a complete squad overhaul.

But unlike the previous times they did this, we are now severely constrained by club finances and PSR, and therefore we're largely stuck with the squad we have.

Really don't know where we go from here, to be honest.
 
Well he's the Answer to all our prayers isn't he.
Next season will be the same unless we get strikers who can score goals. Concede every game ffs every game . Great stuff .
 
DJ_21 said:
Luckily for us there are teams slightly worse. The bottom 3 and plus spurs keep losing so they’ll stay below us
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Yeah but at least Spurs are scoring goals. Our two positions could switch very quickly.
 
Berbaclass said:
Which he was specifically brought in to implement.
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I think he may as well leave now if he is going to change the system.

We cant let the tail wag the dog. Most of the players dont suit his system. Thats being proved most games.

This season is gone, it will be poor, we will end up with even more defeats than last seasons record 14 - we are on 10 with 16 games to play.

In the summer the players have to be got much fitter and many need to be moved on. The squad isnt built for anything - we played 4231 under ETH trying to ping it behind for runners and it didnt work.

We’ve managed to assemble a squad of mainly non technical, non athletic nobodies who’s real level is playing in places like Turkey or exhibition football in Saudi Arabia.

If Amorim gets a striker, 2 wing backs and an athletic box to box midfielder in the summer with a pre season and boosts our fitness this 343 quickly begins to yield good outcomes in my opinion
 
Attack is the best mode to defend.

Amorim needs to learn this soon instead of playing 7 defensive players only for us to sub attacking players everytime we have to chase match our opposition scores in the second half.

Its already getting quite tiresome how he cant change his tactics even 2% to adapt to a different league and standard to bloody sporting lisbon.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Our conundrum is that once again, the club decided to hire a manager whose system is a complete 180 from that of his predecessor, and therefore requires a complete squad overhaul.

But unlike the previous times they did this, we are now severely constrained by club finances and PSR, and therefore we're largely stuck with the squad we have.

Really don't know where we go from here, to be honest.
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Down the table by looks of it quickly
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
His version of 5-2-3 is definitely the worst one. 2 no 10s is just a terrible idea as it doesn’t provide us the necessary width and the players he buys won’t be of use in most formations if he doesn’t work out.
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There's no doubt in my mind that if we had better wingbacks, the system would work much better.
LWB has to be the main priority, and i think Dalot can work on the right for now.
 
maximus419 said:
I get sick and tired of people making excuses for managers. He's come to Utd because he's been tasked with the job of coaching these players to get results, simple as that. Whilst this might not be a great Manchester Untied team, there are still many internationals on the pitch who look a lot better for their country than they do at Utd. How is that, how are these players still good enough for their coubtry but at the same time everyone is saying the players are all terrible?

A managers job is to get the best out of the players, to set them up with the best chance of getting a result. Right now it looks from an outsider, that Amorim is a rookie coach, still trying to grasp what the PL is about, whilst simultaneously trying to implement a formation that the players are obviously not trusting. It's a recipe for disaster and it's proving so with performances and results. I wasn't expecting miracles and an unbeaten run, but I did expect far better than what's been served up to now.

We've been here too many times before where the manager is too stubborn and thinks todays the day things turn around, but they never ever do. If we're waiting until he gets his perfect squad, we'll wait an enternity because it isn't happening. So we must get someone in who knows the PL, is proven at a big club and go again.
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Nah I’m sorry but I disagree. Long gone are the days this club bow to the needs of this overpaid, underperforming group of ‘professionals’ that have done nothing but embarrass the club it’s time to back a manager with the players he needs on a system he’s seen work.

He’s identified quickly the players who need shifting, a blind man could see Casemiro, Antony and Rashford need moving on and he’s acted, if the club won’t support what needs to be done that’s on them

We had about 300m worth of failed players on the bench it’s madness just how fecked up this club is
 
Lentwood said:
It's a tough one.

I love Amorim, his personality and emotional intelligence shine through.

He's not had enough time on the training pitch to draw any conclusions on his coaching abilities.

However, my personal dilemma is that I a constantly torn between two thoughts...

1. Amorim needs to stick to his guns, because changing to accommodate the players is a road to nowhere

BUT

2. Good teams don't become good teams by being dogmatic. You evolve from a solid base. We should be getting the basics right, and THEN working on dominating possession, territory etc...

I can't help but keep thinking...very limited teams like Forest and Bournemouth have shown that organisation goes a long long way. Could we not just make ourselves hard to beat first, and build from there? Is it really necessary to try to play like an elite side, when we're clearly not?
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Totally agree and it's that dilemma that is so confusing right now. Specifically referencing Forest and Bournemouth highlights something too; they didn't do anything particularly impressive to beat us. We made huge mistakes that gifted them the game.

Against Liverpool, Arsenal and City we seem to focus in and not make the huge errors that cost us matches. I'm not sure if it is that attempt to play more ambitiously against 'lesser' teams that makes us cock up but it's a pattern at this point.
 
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