Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Pogue Mahone said:
Goes without saying it’s dumb to change your mind, one way or another, after a single game. Besides there’s been loads of evidence that this system can work before yesterday. But only for periods within games. Yesterday was just the first time we kept it up for a full 90 minutes.
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Yeah, it's a work in progress. But for me the signs in terms of overall play have been generally positive. Really need to see that level of intensity, discipline and desire.


gaffs said:
Maybe it was from having 6 days between games for the first time since Amorim came in.
Maybe it was Amorin telling these players some home truths after some terrible results.
Maybe it was less individual errors and more focus.
Maybe having your first choice midfielders out there helped.

Either way, the system works when the players are on it, even though we dont have all the profiles needed currently. They were on it yesterday.
You can play any formation and system you want, but if they players are off, it wont be a good day.

They were awful against Newcastle, but im adimient that had little to do with system - no first choice midfield and some bad individual mistakes / performances.

I like that the players and managers are not getting carried away, like maybe they did post City. In the long run, it may be better for us that we didn't nick it at the end with Maguire - even though that would have been legendary.
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I think the players generally look like they are on board with his ideas and are really trying to work to his requirements.

Every game/goal has been littered with individual mistakes, which for me aren't really system issues or tactical issues. Even yesterday De Ligt was poor for the first and makes a shit handball for the penalty.
 
Regalia said:
Not sure if people are being thick on purpose or just making up reasons to whine about Amorim. He didn't start Ugarte and Fernandes because they were both suspended for that game. So while he could have avoided having both Case and Eriksen on the field at the same time, it's not like he had much choice.
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Come on, that poster was obviously taking the piss.
 
NLunited said:
We deserved to win yesterday based on our intensity and desire.

If we show that in smaller games, xG will go up.
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Agreed, point I was trying to make is that these players have it in their locker. They are much better than they show for the majority of the time. Or let me put it that they have the qualities.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Agreed, point I was trying to make is that these players have it in their locker. They are much better than they show for the majority of the time. Or let me put it that they have the qualities.
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Agreed. It’s a mentality issue like people have said before and managers have pointed out. Game raisers. That’s what they are. Don’t realise to win the big trophies you have to beat smaller teams aswell as the bigger teams.
 
We’ve clearly set a new benchmark with that performance, and anyone who can’t bring that same level of intensity and focus to every league game will dropped I expect, regardless of who they are.
 
I love how he basically called our players pussies and losers, got them hyper motivated to put on a show and is now using that as fuel for maintaining the standards
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
I am not saying they (Cas, Eriksen & Zee)can play as good as Ugarte, Bruno & Mainoo, certainly not, but that is not what I am saying, I am saying they and everyone else vs Newcastle, did not work hard at all, they didn't even try, not saying we would have won vs Newcastle, but Newcastle had so easy that they just didn't bother to keep up after the second goal, today, we conceded twice in 10 mins, yet everyone was so on it the whole 90 mins, they were aggressive, front footed, and vert focused.

trust me mate, 11 players working very hard as a collective makes a whole world of difference, regardless of who are the 11, yes quality and physical ability matters, but working hard as a collective is extremely important, the players failed to do so vs Newcastle.
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That was the point I was making that you initially disagreed with. If you look back.

I personally think too much is made of our effort levels. I'm not saying they are always perfect but I rarely watch a game and think the players aren't putting it in aside from Rashford.

More often I think it's a case of lacking athletic ability or just the required talent.

If you have two midfielders who are just physically way off where they need to be you're done. Doesn't matter how everyone else plays. Especially against a good team.
 
Oranges038 said:
Yeah, it's a work in progress. But for me the signs in terms of overall play have been generally positive. Really need to see that level of intensity, discipline and desire.




I think the players generally look like they are on board with his ideas and are really trying to work to his requirements.

Every game/goal has been littered with individual mistakes, which for me aren't really system issues or tactical issues. Even yesterday De Ligt was poor for the first and makes a shit handball for the penalty.
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Totally agree. Too many individual mistakes. Is that because they have half of their mind on the system? Maybe. But i dont think Bruno gets sent off v Wolves because of the system, or Maz puts in that bad tackle v Bournemouth or Onana lets one in v Forest because of system. Silly mistakes.

De Ligt looked poor on the first goal, but to be fair, i think he probably expected it to be squared across goal, so dived in to block it. Most times, Gakpo squares that for Salah for a tap in. It just so happened Salah wasnt there, but MDL wasnt to know that in the moment.
 
Regalia said:
Not sure if people are being thick on purpose or just making up reasons to whine about Amorim. He didn't start Ugarte and Fernandes because they were both suspended for that game. So while he could have avoided having both Case and Eriksen on the field at the same time, it's not like he had much choice.
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That’s what I am getting at. He really had few options.
 
TwoSheds said:
The thing I appreciated most about yesterday's performance wasn't the intensity, although that was decent, but more it was that we were generally calm in possession, notably Bruno in particular. So much better in not giving away possession daftly in stupid areas and actually created a lot of nice chances through clever, calm passing rather than trying to force things too much. If we can have more of that we'll become a force again.
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Intensity and patience. The biggest culprit in us giving balls away is that we play passes that are not there to be played. Yesterday, we took our time until we had the correct amount of bodies and players in position. So good to see.

Not, lets make sure this is not another City win, where we crumble in the next 3-4 games.
 
Marwood said:
That was the point I was making that you initially disagreed with. If you look back.

I personally think too much is made of our effort levels. I'm not saying they are always perfect but I rarely watch a game and think the players aren't putting it in aside from Rashford.

More often I think it's a case of lacking athletic ability or just the required talent.

If you have two midfielders who are just physically way off where they need to be you're done. Doesn't matter how everyone else plays. Especially against a good team.
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I don't think you are quite right in the bolded bit, the players' collective efforts levels aren't that high generally, teams usually outrun us and outwork us, it is in the stats I think in distance covered, even Amorim pointed to the issues of team's intensity in his latest comments, the intensity and efforts levels yesterday was something I have not seen for a long time.

and on Cas & Eriksen, again, I know what's their limit, but they did manage to play as the 2 holding mids ahead of a back 4 in 2022-2023, it's not like they aged that much since then, and with a back 3 and 2 AMs ahead of them they do not need to manage a huge space since the formation itself is compact by design, the problem that was very obvious in the game vs Newcastle was the whole team did not put in an effort, we didn't see CBs stepping into midfield and tackle, we didn't see AMs and CMs tracking runners and tackling and nipping at the heels of their opponents, and against Liverpool, they all did that, again, Mainoo & Ugarte are far better as duo compared to Cas & Eriksen because they have the legs to keep up the intensity, but if Eriksen and Cas played with higher intensity vs Newcastle, and everyone else too vs Newcastle, the results might have been different.
 
I know with parachuting in when he has, with the schedule and also the variety of injuries/illness and suspensions that have come at this time of year plus having to get to know players has lead to a lot of line up change. Hopefully with this game and with the week before the next game, we now stick to a consistent line up for the most part.
 
Drainy said:
I love how he basically called our players pussies and losers, got them hyper motivated to put on a show and is now using that as fuel for maintaining the standards
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That is indeed what happened, and the players are on board with it. Let‘s see if they can do it against Southampton, Fulham and the likes.
 
pocco said:
Ok fair enough, I hope we can all put that argument to bed then. Like you said, we need to back him and get our next few signings right and start moving in the right direction. Hopefully along the way some of these players surprise us and make a case for themselves in his team. It’d be great to talk again soon about an embarrassment of options rather than lack of.
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I've watched United for over 30 years.

Anfield is the ultimate test for any United player or United Manager.
If one can go to Anfield and deliver in United colours that person deserves everything good in this world.

Amorim has it in him to deliver, we didn't fold, we didn't feel inferior, we didn't crumble under pressure. Funny enough, we grew in stature as game progressed it's remarkable.

My main problem with Amorim was he wasn't able to extract maximum from this crop of players, to warrant $500m new players, but that fear was extinguished yesterday. He pushed these players to levels we've not seen.

Bruno was Redondo-esque, Ugarte Keane-esque, Yoro in Rio lane., Dalot was like Evra on the wing.

Amorim needs to tighten the screw on that performance level. Ineos needs to invest on where Amorim wants. Fans needs to support the team now.
 
rooney2009 said:
He picked the right team yesterday and we played very well.
We should never ever see Cas, Erickson and Zee all start together
I’m still not over that selection against Newcastle.
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There really wasn't much option with Bruno and Ugarte suspended.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
@pocco it can be done!!!!

343 can be done. :lol: :lol:

I think a lot of people needed convincing on the pitch. And it was delivered yesterday.

I believe any arguments about the tactics or not, has been closed.
Work now is on Amorim to construct a title winning squad. He should be given absolutely anything he needs.

Yes it was me
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Kudos for this.
 
That Bruno to Martinez ball hopefully becomes a repeatable play for us. We saw a lot of that when Cavani (and Martial) were leading the line for us but we have seen less of it in the last few years
 
Is the dippers game away a corner he's turned with this lot next game we find out and next game after that and the game after that.. we will soon find out
 
One thing I'm curious is that how the dressing room reacts to the club and probably Amorim booting the freeloader (Casemiro, Rashford) and the not so good players Anthony and Zirkzee

Will they be supportive and says feck yeah, or?

I can't believe any professional who's passionate about their career would love to play alongside those names.
 
Sky1981 said:
One thing I'm curious is that how the dressing room reacts to the club and probably Amorim booting the freeloader (Casemiro, Rashford) and the not so good players Anthony and Zirkzee

Will they be supportive and says feck yeah, or?

I can't believe any professional who's passionate about their career would love to play alongside those names.
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I imagine there's a big difference between how players perceive Casemiro and Rashford (at least I would hope so). Casemiro is a serial winner in the latter stages of his career, who is fading quickly due to his physical attributes diminishing. I think many younger players will still revere him, even if he doesn't put in great performances on the pitch now. Rashford is a completely different story of someone who has failed to consistently live up to his potential, and is now being pretty unprofessional.
 
IncyWincySpider said:
We’ve clearly set a new benchmark with that performance, and anyone who can’t bring that same level of intensity and focus to every league game will dropped I expect, regardless of who they are.
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Its quite clear that was close to Amorim's best 11 at the moment. The issue is that we cannot play Ugarte and Mainoo every game and the drop off in energy is too much. Casemiro Eriksen cannot play in this team, but they are the only options.

Then we have attack the same too, there is no Bruno, Amad replacement, Garnacho is the only one. So we are really struggling to rotate because the players are not good enough.

Hopefully we get a few deals done in January to give us a better chance in the second half of the season.
 
Sky1981 said:
One thing I'm curious is that how the dressing room reacts to the club and probably Amorim booting the freeloader (Casemiro, Rashford) and the not so good players Anthony and Zirkzee

Will they be supportive and says feck yeah, or?

I can't believe any professional who's passionate about their career would love to play alongside those names.
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Since when is Casemiro a freeloader? Not the player he once was, but a freeloader?
 
Maybe it's the benefit of the mentorship he had from Mourinho or maybe it's just his natural charisma but he's working the media and players perfectly at the moment.

Don't want to get too giddy about it, but in terms of personality he's coming across a bit like Jose but adjusted for the more delicate modern generation.
 
romufc said:
Its quite clear that was close to Amorim's best 11 at the moment. The issue is that we cannot play Ugarte and Mainoo every game and the drop off in energy is too much. Casemiro Eriksen cannot play in this team, but they are the only options.

Then we have attack the same too, there is no Bruno, Amad replacement, Garnacho is the only one. So we are really struggling to rotate because the players are not good enough.

Hopefully we get a few deals done in January to give us a better chance in the second half of the season.
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I think Casemiro would be fine playing next to Ugarte (as they did while Ruud was in charge). Even playing next to Mainoo isn't too bad, although not something you'd want to see against teams with a lot of athleticism and power in midfield. Playing Casemiro and Eriksen as the duo though is just setting them both up to fail terribly. They were quite often getting overrun even 2 years ago in their first season, so with both of them declining even further since then it's a recipe for disaster. Eriksen is so far gone I don't think he can play in a midfield two at all no matter who the partner is.

Of course, from what we've seen so far Amorim sees Bruno as the main backup/competition for Mainoo, with then someone (probably Garnacho) taking over the #10 role.

So it's really Ugarte that we don't have cover for at all. Everyone relies on being able to play next to him so he can provide the legs and defensive cover, and even weaker teams will fancy their chances of controlling the middle of the park if he's not there.
 
MadDogg said:
I think Casemiro would be fine playing next to Ugarte (as they did while Ruud was in charge). Even playing next to Mainoo isn't too bad, although not something you'd want to see against teams with a lot of athleticism and power in midfield. Playing Casemiro and Eriksen as the duo though is just setting them both up to fail terribly. They were quite often getting overrun even 2 years ago in their first season, so with both of them declining even further since then it's a recipe for disaster. Eriksen is so far gone I don't think he can play in a midfield two at all no matter who the partner is.

Of course, from what we've seen so far Amorim sees Bruno as the main backup/competition for Mainoo, with then someone (probably Garnacho) taking over the #10 role.

So it's really Ugarte that we don't have cover for at all. Everyone relies on being able to play next to him so he can provide the legs and defensive cover, and even weaker teams will fancy their chances of controlling the middle of the park if he's not there.
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I agree with that. The thing is you can't really have a go at the manager when we have 1 midfielder who can play that position. Ugarte's play style is also one that he will pick up yellow cards and be suspended.

It is interesting that Amorim has not given any youngster a chance, he knows that Eriksen cannot play in midfield, I would have liked to have seen Collyer in there just for his energy.

He must not rate our academy players.
 
Sky1981 said:
One thing I'm curious is that how the dressing room reacts to the club and probably Amorim booting the freeloader (Casemiro, Rashford) and the not so good players Anthony and Zirkzee

Will they be supportive and says feck yeah, or?

I can't believe any professional who's passionate about their career would love to play alongside those names.
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mate....Casemiro is light years in a different class than Rashford so comparing those two is a bit mental

Antony is shit...he's got to get sold but much like Rashford finding a buyer who doesn't want just a loan is going to be a challenge

zirkzee works hard but this system just isn't good for what he does...nothing against the lad as his application isn't poor
 
Mike Smalling said:
I imagine there's a big difference between how players perceive Casemiro and Rashford (at least I would hope so). Casemiro is a serial winner in the latter stages of his career, who is fading quickly due to his physical attributes diminishing. I think many younger players will still revere him, even if he doesn't put in great performances on the pitch now. Rashford is a completely different story of someone who has failed to consistently live up to his potential, and is now being pretty unprofessional.
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Don’t think Casemiro can be accused of lack of effort , he just doesn’t have the legs for the prem.
 
romufc said:
I agree with that. The thing is you can't really have a go at the manager when we have 1 midfielder who can play that position. Ugarte's play style is also one that he will pick up yellow cards and be suspended.

It is interesting that Amorim has not given any youngster a chance, he knows that Eriksen cannot play in midfield, I would have liked to have seen Collyer in there just for his energy.

He must not rate our academy players.
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I am surprised we haven't seen him, just for his legs and running. Even if he isn't the best passer and is technically lacking. Better than Eriksen in there imo. If Eriksen plays he has to play as a 10
 
MadDogg said:
I think Casemiro would be fine playing next to Ugarte (as they did while Ruud was in charge). Even playing next to Mainoo isn't too bad, although not something you'd want to see against teams with a lot of athleticism and power in midfield. Playing Casemiro and Eriksen as the duo though is just setting them both up to fail terribly. They were quite often getting overrun even 2 years ago in their first season, so with both of them declining even further since then it's a recipe for disaster. Eriksen is so far gone I don't think he can play in a midfield two at all no matter who the partner is.

Of course, from what we've seen so far Amorim sees Bruno as the main backup/competition for Mainoo, with then someone (probably Garnacho) taking over the #10 role.

So it's really Ugarte that we don't have cover for at all. Everyone relies on being able to play next to him so he can provide the legs and defensive cover, and even weaker teams will fancy their chances of controlling the middle of the park if he's not there.
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The lack of cover was completely predictable too. We got rid of Fred, Amrabat and McTominay and replaced them with one new signing. Even if we were in denial about Eriksen and Casemiro hitting the wall we’ve still created a basic numbers problem in central midfield. So short sighted.

I guess a miraculous recovery from Mount’s chronic injury problems does at least give us more options. We’re still horribly short of specialist CMs though. When you look at how stacked the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool are in that position it really brings it home how much work we still need to do on our squad. And most people don’t mention CMs as a priority. The focus is on a striker and LWB.

In the context of this thread it’s really just more evidence that it would be incredibly foolhardy to write off Amorim until he has a much better squad at his disposal.
 
He's going to last longer than any other manager since SAF, but I feel like we have to temper our expectations significantly. Right now, we definitely need

a right wing back and a left wing back
a striker
a player comfortable in the RF/LF positions

and in the next few years we arguably need

Another GK
A ball playing CB to replace maguire
midfield competition for mainoo

There's just no way we can do all of that in the summer transfer window, so I'm hoping as the season kicks on if we remain out of touch for the top 4, we put all our eggs in the europa league basket and start giving some of your youth players PL minutes. We may uncover a player or two that negate the need to spend big int he transfer window. Ibragimov looks perfect for a LF/RF role, and we have several great young defenders coming through.

Immediate and obvious first port of call MUST be attacking wing backs. When you have Ugarte and 3 CB'S Behind you, being solid defensively isn't even that big a requirement, but we have to get better players than we currently have if Amorim really wants this system to flourish. It'll be interesting to see average position maps for sporting wing backs versus ours, Id wager they are at least 10 yards further up the pitch than Maz/dalot currently are.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The lack of cover was completely predictable too. We got rid of Fred, Amrabat and McTominay and replaced them with one new signing. Even if we were in denial about Eriksen and Casemiro hitting the wall we’ve still created a basic numbers problem in central midfield. So short sighted.

I guess a miraculous recovery from Mount’s chronic injury problems does at least give us more options. We’re still horribly short of specialist CMs though. When you look at how stacked the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool are in that position it really brings it home how much work we still need to do on our squad. And most people don’t mention CMs as a priority. The focus is on a striker and LWB.

In the context of this thread it’s really just more evidence that it would be incredibly foolhardy to write off Amorim until he has a much better squad at his disposal.
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Right now, I'd personally say CM is our priority. Cas and Eriksson seem past it, Mount is injured. We saw against Liverpool what were capable of with a functioning midfield.
 
mav_9me said:
I am surprised we haven't seen him, just for his legs and running. Even if he isn't the best passer and is technically lacking. Better than Eriksen in there imo. If Eriksen plays he has to play as a 10
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Exactly, I am surprised too. Considering he has energy, surely he can partner with Casemiro or Mainoo to play in that position, he will give it his all and run around.
 
alexthelion said:
There really wasn't much option with Bruno and Ugarte suspended.
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I like Amorim but I was very surprised he went for Casemiro & Eriksen in midfield again, notwithstanding the suspensions to Bruno & Ugarte.

Cas and Eriksen started Ruben's first game v Ipswich and got the runaround. Both players were seldom used since, and never together, until the Newcastle game. I thought it would have been Cas and Mainoo.

Maybe he thought Mainoo was not in good form and needed a rest, maybe he thought the Cas-Eriksen partnership needed one more outing to confirm what he all saw at Ipswich, that it doesn't work. Who knows?! But it was a mistake on his part which I hope he's learnt from!
 
alexthelion said:
No, but we've no alternative (at the moment).
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That’s his literal job. To come up with solutions that would stand a chance in a game. We fans don’t need to have an alternative in mind to realise that what he put out was just wrong. That was the cause of the whole pragmatism discussion before the last game.

Hopefully he’s learned from that.
 
romufc said:
I agree with that. The thing is you can't really have a go at the manager when we have 1 midfielder who can play that position. Ugarte's play style is also one that he will pick up yellow cards and be suspended.

It is interesting that Amorim has not given any youngster a chance, he knows that Eriksen cannot play in midfield, I would have liked to have seen Collyer in there just for his energy.

He must not rate our academy players.
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Don't think this is true. In the situation we are in it's not the best time to throw youngsters in. I think once we are safe some of the youngsters will play. Also Collyear has been injured
 
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