I agree that Maz has looked better as a RCB than a RWB. A fit and in form Luke Shaw would have transformed this team - by himself and also helped move Dalot to RWB. But that ship has sailed.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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I agree that Maz has looked better as a RCB than a RWB. A fit and in form Luke Shaw would have transformed this team - by himself and also helped move Dalot to RWB. But that ship has sailed.
I dont think you can compare those matches. It was city at their all time lowest under Pep, meanwhile Liverpool are at their absolute best in years. And its not like a 0 - 0 under Ten hag where we just parked the bus. We played extremely well and even a win would have been deserved.
I think in the long run though he’ll go to what he did at sporting. He usually had one winger playing on one side and then an actual defender as the other wing back.
That was a good performance and a much needed relief for him after losses in the previous four games. He is also close to identifying a first XI and I think 8-9 players from the XI who started yesterday will be a part of that XI. We need to do everything in our power to get him at the minimum a striker & a LWB, and if possible another CM, in the January transfer window. If we can get him those then we can still get something out of the season.
Having said that, I won't go overboard with the performance or the result yesterday. We have seen in the past that we can perform reasonably well when we are the underdog and play in a mid to low block. Our struggles begin when we have to be on the front foot and take the initiative from the get go. That is where we have to improve and that's paramount of doing well in the league: winning and performing consistently against regular mid-table & bottom-table teams.
For me, still, the season begins on Jan 16th with the game against S'ton. From then on we have a few winnable league fixtures, a chance to finish in the top 8 of the Europa table and a two week break coming up at the right time for the manager to get more training time on the pitch with the players to get his ideas across. We can still potentially have a very good season.
Having said that, I won't go overboard with the performance or the result yesterday. We have seen in the past that we can perform reasonably well when we are the underdog and play in a mid to low block. Our struggles begin when we have to be on the front foot and take the initiative from the get go. That is where we have to improve and that's paramount of doing well in the league: winning and performing consistently against regular mid-table & bottom-table teams.
For me, still, the season begins on Jan 16th with the game against S'ton. From then on we have a few winnable league fixtures, a chance to finish in the top 8 of the Europa table and a two week break coming up at the right time for the manager to get more training time on the pitch with the players to get his ideas across. We can still potentially have a very good season.
This is basically his argument post-match. they looked awesome today. But can't do it against anyone else. It's not 3-4-3, its not anything in particular. These players only go out there for big match headlines and now he's seen that in the flesh he's furious. He wants this every week, they need to mentally grasp what is required.
Have people forgotten the 4-3 vs Liverpool under EtH, 2-1 vs City in the final, even the community shield loss we played very well, 1-2 vs City under Amorim.
These players can do this very well and have shown this over the last 9 months.
Consistently bringing this level is the main issue however.
And see where they are in the table and recent form. We are also at home. Should be winning these types of games otherwise there is no improvement.
Having watched Eriksen and Casemiro particularly but also Zirkzee it's surely impossible for any fan to think they could have put that performance in. Absolutely no chance you could believe that.
There is surely a PHD paper on this predicament. Technique and skills available for a team to take on huge challenges, but do not have the group mentality to repeat every week.
It’s like group psychosis in complacency. We’ve got too many players who don’t have the ego needed to succeed. The arrogance to not fail every time they play. They don’t have it. Amorim does and wants to instil it.
Question is how do you get the right players to take it on and transform group mentality. Yet most of the senior players don’t seem to innately have that ego.
So, this settled the myth that we don't have the players and all our players are shit. Not even Top 10 material and whatnot.
Today's prove that we have very good players. They need to improve on consistency, grit, workrate, believe and confidence. It makes such a big different in top football.
Today's prove that we have very good players. They need to improve on consistency, grit, workrate, believe and confidence. It makes such a big different in top football.
From my layman's eyes, the main difference was that we match Liverpool's running and intensity. Then, we also played with more believe and confidence than them. This is the match that I finally saw the players really gave their all on the pitch. This is what we used to watch week in week out in SAF's time.
Also It felt a bit different than when we used yo try hard during ETHs time here, but not sure why
I am not saying they (Cas, Eriksen & Zee)can play as good as Ugarte, Bruno & Mainoo, certainly not, but that is not what I am saying, I am saying they and everyone else vs Newcastle, did not work hard at all, they didn't even try, not saying we would have won vs Newcastle, but Newcastle had so easy that they just didn't bother to keep up after the second goal, today, we conceded twice in 10 mins, yet everyone was so on it the whole 90 mins, they were aggressive, front footed, and vert focused.
trust me mate, 11 players working very hard as a collective makes a whole world of difference, regardless of who are the 11, yes quality and physical ability matters, but working hard as a collective is extremely important, the players failed to do so vs Newcastle.
And he seems super aware of where the problem lies. That's so encouraging.
And he delivers his messages very stern but fair in the media. A hell of a lot more encouraging than the way ETH did it.
I just hope the players and the organization as a whole jump on his train.
I wouldn't say we didn't work hard against Newcastle.
We just had zero pace in the midfield because of Eriksen and Casemiro. Having players that can move around easily is an absolute minimum requirement now. Having that yesterday helped us massively.
Music to my ears that he said he is "mad" we can't get consistent performance like this. The players need to know that they are capable and are definitely very good players. Don't let the negative people that keep saying we have a bad squad and not good enough even for Top 10.
The club we just played against are the perfect example of how far work rate can get you. They were destroying teams with Milner and Henderson in the middle, because the whole team ran their arses off for 90 minutes.
But it's nothing new. We've known for years our players rarely put in enough effort. Hence why we've always had a big result here and there and why we're all wary of more false dawns. But at least Amorim has already identified this as an issue and publicly acknowledged it's not acceptable. It's encouraging that we have a manager who can quickly spot problems and isn't scared to call the players out on them
He picked the right team yesterday and we played very well.
We should never ever see Cas, Erickson and Zee all start together
I’m still not over that selection against Newcastle.
We should never ever see Cas, Erickson and Zee all start together
I’m still not over that selection against Newcastle.
Agree to disagree on our players' work rate vs Newcastle.
On the bold, you are not wrong, but Cas & Eriksen aren't 40-year-olds, they are barely in their early 30s, and granted they aren't mobile enough, but it does mean they can just walk around the midfield and not bust a gut, Fernandinho, Milner, and other PL CMs played till thier mid 30s and they did not look as bad as Cas & Eriksen did.
Agreed especially the bolded part, and if the team is able to establish a baseline of work rate that they never play below in any given game, it will allow them to dominate games against lesser opponents, which translates to energy conservation, but it all starts with hard work consistently.
Yeah he should have started Ugarte and Fernandes against Newcastle.
Big difference for me is that we now go toe to toe with them, while before we were defending and played counter, sorry, "transition".
This lot have had excuses made for not even trying for long enough. I wasn’t a pro footballer but knew instinctively to make myself available for a pass to help a team mate out when I was 10 or less. Mourinho and Jose both called them out for it but we’re over ruled by the Disneyland-obsessed hamster-faced twat that effectively ran, and ruined the club. Hoping INEOS and Ruben stay on the same page.
I hope Amorim and Ruben, as well as Jim and Ratcliffe all stay on the same page too, as well, also
Didn't watch the match (I admit I was too scared). But with all these crosses/chances into the box... if we have a top striker it would have been a blood bath.
Amazing game. United almost won if not for the return goals.
And even so, united had the chance to make it 3-2.
And even so, united had the chance to make it 3-2.
In fact, he was so fed up with it that he split into two life forms to complain together.
I didn’t mean Amorim in general struggles against smaller sides, I meant with the squad as it is I’m not sure we are suited to destroying smaller sides so early into his reign unless we sign better wing backs.
Do we?
We have somewhat decent first 11 with error prone keeper, chaotic playmayker, shit striker and questionable fullbacks.
The moment someone gets injured, we're fecked.
Put Casemiro instead of Ugarte yesterday and we get battered.
Shut up. You know I meant Solksjaer and Ole.I hope Amorim and Ruben, as well as Jim and Ratcliffe all stay on the same page too, as well, also
This is our current biggest issue. The dropoff in quality outside of the first XI is severe. Mainoo, Ugarte, Bruno get injured and we will have a torrid time.
We have gone away pool so many times and come back with a draw, or a lucky win here and there.
Almost many managers have tried to do this, but what Amorim has done is fantastic. This wasn't one of those games I have seen where united luck their way to a draw. This was legit football on display. Could you imagine? What he could do with slightly better players?
I was ETH in till the day he got sacked, and I will be RAin till this fellow gets sacked. The players are so dodgy, its not even funny. I would sell every single one of them without a doubt. I really really hope this man gets some luck his way, and the players fight for him.
To be honest everytime in the last 3-4 years we have had a new manager, the players have suddenly turned a corner and it felt like we are back. Only for the second season to be complete shit. This time, there is no garden of roses, cause Amorim is not coddling the players. He is clear in his vision, and although we will have many upsets, I really hope he makes it.
Almost many managers have tried to do this, but what Amorim has done is fantastic. This wasn't one of those games I have seen where united luck their way to a draw. This was legit football on display. Could you imagine? What he could do with slightly better players?
I was ETH in till the day he got sacked, and I will be RAin till this fellow gets sacked. The players are so dodgy, its not even funny. I would sell every single one of them without a doubt. I really really hope this man gets some luck his way, and the players fight for him.
To be honest everytime in the last 3-4 years we have had a new manager, the players have suddenly turned a corner and it felt like we are back. Only for the second season to be complete shit. This time, there is no garden of roses, cause Amorim is not coddling the players. He is clear in his vision, and although we will have many upsets, I really hope he makes it.
I think the takeaway is: if he can do this with our mish-mash of misfits, imagine what he could do with quality players, primed for the way he wants to play.
His Sporting side unsettled opponents, and you can see those same buds emerging here in how he can take the game to the biggest clubs here no bother.
With actual wing-backs and a dangerous striker, this entire side transforms into something it cannot be currently and that’s very encouraging indeed.
His Sporting side unsettled opponents, and you can see those same buds emerging here in how he can take the game to the biggest clubs here no bother.
With actual wing-backs and a dangerous striker, this entire side transforms into something it cannot be currently and that’s very encouraging indeed.
There is a difference under EtH. Our possession was usually around 30% with lower number of strikes on target. Under Amorim, we appear to compete at the top level against these teams.
I think the tight pitch helped suit Amorim's tactics which sounds silly but it was much easier to be compact with the back 5 where the full-backs were naturally defending rather than attacking.
The problem is at Old Trafford and away grounds where they are expected to create and overlap, and then we give the ball away cheaply and we are asking players to defend huge swathes of space. it even happened a few times yesterday in the centre of the park and out wide but much less so than in recent games.
I think the system can be successful in the long term but I also think it will be prone to shock results and the odd battering where it falls apart.
The problem is at Old Trafford and away grounds where they are expected to create and overlap, and then we give the ball away cheaply and we are asking players to defend huge swathes of space. it even happened a few times yesterday in the centre of the park and out wide but much less so than in recent games.
I think the system can be successful in the long term but I also think it will be prone to shock results and the odd battering where it falls apart.
It was great to get the draw but I really only care about performances for now and that was a good one.
You can see elements of Sporting's play starting to surface. Our CBs stepping up for tackles and getting involved in the attack for man advantage. Dalot played like an actual wing back. We had more passes across the box which is something that has been missing for years.
I'm really hopeful about this project, with the right signings we're going places.
You can see elements of Sporting's play starting to surface. Our CBs stepping up for tackles and getting involved in the attack for man advantage. Dalot played like an actual wing back. We had more passes across the box which is something that has been missing for years.
I'm really hopeful about this project, with the right signings we're going places.
I don't know why every is going on about not trying and it's a mentality thing. I think a major part of it is which team we put out and who we play against. Playing against Liverpool away weirdly suits us much more than a team that sits back and we have to break them down. We cant do that for sht. We cant play teams that are brilliant at crossing either and we struggle against teams that are very physical. Add to that we have to stop this tinkering. Tinkering results in inconsistency. Yes Amorims hands are tied when he doesnt have players available like Bruno and Ugarte at Newcastle. But he has been changing the team a lot for no reason other than fitness and trying new things. We have to keep this same team or at least 9/10 of them if we can week in week out.
When we play Southampton it will be totally different. Just because we draw against Liverpool away doesn't equate to 3-0 against Southampton. They will compress the pitch, defend deep and be as physical as possible and we all know that this team is weak at scoring goals. When you are outmatched it looks like you are not trying but I dont believe pros like Casemiro and Eriksen are just putting their feet up. They are trying but they are just being overrun and outmatched physically. We will see this happen over and over again this season when Ugarte is not playing. Same as we will see this team struggle to break down teams and score. And we will see Dalot struggle over and over at LWB. Just saying they should try harder is baffling to me. Sure I agree its a big part of it and we will get nowhere if they dont try. But set them up to succeed and not to fail before they even get on the pitch.
When we play Southampton it will be totally different. Just because we draw against Liverpool away doesn't equate to 3-0 against Southampton. They will compress the pitch, defend deep and be as physical as possible and we all know that this team is weak at scoring goals. When you are outmatched it looks like you are not trying but I dont believe pros like Casemiro and Eriksen are just putting their feet up. They are trying but they are just being overrun and outmatched physically. We will see this happen over and over again this season when Ugarte is not playing. Same as we will see this team struggle to break down teams and score. And we will see Dalot struggle over and over at LWB. Just saying they should try harder is baffling to me. Sure I agree its a big part of it and we will get nowhere if they dont try. But set them up to succeed and not to fail before they even get on the pitch.
It is not the top level of form that determines the quality of a squad/first 11, it is the bottom level. Easy to go out against our biggest rivals, who are favourites for the league in a match where everyone expects you to lose and put in effort to "prove people wrong".
It's a completely different propostion to go out against a Bournemouth where you are the favourite and their players have something to prove against us.
As much as a draw and performance at Anfield makes me happy it's not like this hasn't happened before. The issues with the first 11 are still there and were even on display against Liverpool:
Rasmus 1 v 1 chance and general poor movement
Zirkzee shit bobble pass to Maguire for the chance at the end
No LWB who could truly exploit Trent, he was absolutely woeful and a key reason why we were able to get a draw but if we had a ruthless left sided attacker he would have been hooked.
We need two world class transfer windows with big earners going out and at least three incoming transfers which turn out to be mega hits.
It's a completely different propostion to go out against a Bournemouth where you are the favourite and their players have something to prove against us.
As much as a draw and performance at Anfield makes me happy it's not like this hasn't happened before. The issues with the first 11 are still there and were even on display against Liverpool:
Rasmus 1 v 1 chance and general poor movement
Zirkzee shit bobble pass to Maguire for the chance at the end
No LWB who could truly exploit Trent, he was absolutely woeful and a key reason why we were able to get a draw but if we had a ruthless left sided attacker he would have been hooked.
We need two world class transfer windows with big earners going out and at least three incoming transfers which turn out to be mega hits.