Whatever happened to the Newbie promotion system? If ever there were ever a compelling argument for its return, it's this post.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Have we? I imagine we might have had two or three days of training this week.
To be fair Fergie either would have sorted the Rashford situation one way or the other years ago. Either got him playing well or shipped him out.
However, It's not as simple as all that. I think if we had a stable coaching team throughout the time Rashford was here the same would have happened. Every time a new manager comes in it's a clean slate and they all think they can get the best out of the player and also may not have been informed of the exact nature of the issues under the previous guy.
Is it one week of training though? Pretty sure he’s been training the team since November. The difference is he’s not had a full week like he keeps complaining. Who said anything about fixing?
Roy is spot on about a world class striker getting you out of jail. Man city with Haaland, Pool with Salah, the team can be playing average but they can get a goal from a half chance and swing the result.
I don’t know how they schedule it to be fair. Is it usually a day of after a game? Or recovery sessions the day after a game?
Ten Hags stock has only risen since he was sacked. He was not the problem to address.
Changing the manager hasn't made it any less necessary for Rashford and Shaw to be replaced as first team starting players.
Changing the manager hasn't made it any less necessary for Rashford and Shaw to be replaced as first team starting players.
Fulham are lining up in a 3-4-3 today, and although people love to exaggerate how bad our squad is, there isn’t a single player that would start over any of our own, bar Robinson, and they are possibly 10 points ahead of us after today.
It can’t be as hard to implement as what we are seeing. The only explanation is players attitudes and commitment, and that is what he needs to weed out.
It can’t be as hard to implement as what we are seeing. The only explanation is players attitudes and commitment, and that is what he needs to weed out.
You would hope we cut any recovery or gym sessions short and focus on main thing and that's getting the squad of players up to scratch with what's going to happen on pitch with new idea/identity.
Need to start getting postive results from now. Everyone thinking we are going to beat teams with ease with set of fixtures after today's game is questionable. Way we are playing still think we will struggle games vs Southampton and Brighton to come.
We aren’t talking about the same things.
On the one hand, you’re saying that you don’t hire Amorim and expect him to not play his football. Of course I agree with that and have said as much, and am broadly supportive of that.
On the other hand, you bring examples of Guardiola and now Fergie.
On Guardiola, you specifically said we wouldn’t expect to hire him and ask him to change his system. Of course that’s true. But it’s also a bad example. Guardiola has a proven system at the absolute highest levels. Amorim doesn’t, no matter how you try and frame it.
I’m all for giving him time and know these players are shite and either can’t deliver it or will take a hell of a lot of time to adjust to be able to deliver it. But we can’t pretend that there isn’t a risk here. And that’s why it’s different to Guardiola. And why you can’t use Guardiola as an example. The risk of giving Amorim time and in the end finding out his system just doesn’t work in the PL or at the highest level is much, much higher than trying to do the same with Guardiola, where you can almost say with certainty that give him time and money and he will bring relentless success and trophies.
And because of that greater risk, giving Amorim time doesn’t mean we should just accept whatever happens and ignore or not try and look for signs that things aren’t all rosey. As I said, I am very supportive of giving him time and not expecting him to change his system. But can’t understand people who don’t see the risk there, or think he should be afforded as much time as a Guardiola would be.
'No excuses' to me says you are expecting a massive change.
He's trying to change a whole system on the fly - he needs a full pre season not a week here and there to make any big improvements.
And we all saw what happened when he dared have a go at Maguire for something.
Just because some of these guys wore armbands it doesn't make them leaders on the pitch. Maguire had and he couldn't handle it. Casemiro and Eriksen are finished, they might be leaders off the pitch but on it, they are not capable of leading anything now. Shaw & Rashford are not captains or leaders.
Bruno wears it and he's probably the worst type of player you can have as captain.
Tuesday was probably a day off. Wednesday and Thursday we'd have done most of our on pitch training. Potentially Friday we focused more on the opposition. Yesterday, I imagine was recovery. Not sure if we will have stayed in Liverpool overnight or travelled up this morning.
Ten hag was one of the biggest problems. Absolutely clueless in how he wanted his teams to play, clueless with recruitment, zero motivational skills and ability to adapt mid game.
Lets not pretend that he was the answer.
It most definitely hasn't.
It really hasn't
Idk why i read that tripe thoroughly but they lost me at “Get Rashy going”. He needs to get going out of the door.
Has it? Where? I've no idea why it would have. He wasn't the only issue, but everyone knew that.
I asked a question in the same thread (about Amorim having only 4 training sessions up until now). Look it up and see the responses. We have had games every 3 days which leaves the coach no time to get a regular approach training session. Something that squads go through during preseason.
We had a conversation about that a
So yes, a full week of non-match-related training should help, but Amorim will still be in the early phases of drilling his approach into the squad.
And you're saying Amorim is?
INEOS would love that to be true aswell.
What's happened since is proof that Ten Hag wasn't the biggest fish to fry this season. Recruitment still needed to replace a lot of attackers and goals that this team lost in losing Greenwood, Ronaldo and Cavani in recent seasons.
That's not what he's saying, no. Ten Hag was absolutely clueless and needed replacing. It's just that simple. He was never the only reason we're shite.
Need to create chances in the first place though
We create chances. We just miss almost all of them.
People have opinions that differ from yours, get used to it. This is not your dictatorship republic.
I'm not really seeing it. I missed the Bournemouth game, but I feel like we really struggle generally to create enough.
Oh nowhere near enough, but that 's the point about a world class striker bailing you out. That implies there are issues.
I am saying what i posted.
I also prefer not to make a judgement on the new coach when he’s had 0 transfer windows and pre-seasons and was thrown into the deep end with fixtures piling up and braindead players.
The only difference I see is that he can no longer claim to have had only 4 training sessions. It should be at least 5 now.
Movement by the strikers is terrible though. Better movement would create better chances. They are also terrible on the ball for some reason. So much of our build up dies when our front men get involved.
I’m all for giving Amorim time and haven’t really set any goals this season outside of don’t get relegated , so nobody can accuse me of being harsh on him.
But this is not a squad that should be languishing in lower half of table. No amount of waffly “it’s all the squad” can disguise the fact that this squad finished 8th last season with an injury crisis that Amorim isn’t having to manage. I also think the squad isn’t weaker, with ugarte and Yoro defo good starting quality players.
I accept confidence is rock bottom but I don’t accept that lower then top half of league is “as good as could be expected”. That’s nonsense that’s been spouted to imply that the manager couldn’t do much better, well he could and if his “I’m doing it this way regardless of players” continues to struggle picking up points he won’t be around long enough to make it work.
Some fans have this weird managerial fetish that can be all or nothing , the manager is the messiah or pariah. I believe Amorim could have the quality to do great things but I fear he may not get the time to achieve it if the team doesn’t respond soon to whatever it is he wants. Managers have to adapt . Quality managers make alterations, sometimes game by game , if they feel it increases their teams chances of winning.
I always felt that losing in champions league final to Madrid was a powerful lesson for Klopp, particularly in the final win against spurs a season later. He learned how to win ugly and pragmatically. This was something Ferguson regularly did and only cheat code unlimited quality pep has the luxury of being able to ticky tacka away to his hearts content. Amorim may need to learn some pragmatism this season and I don’t see why it has to be all tactics or bust.
I think Amorim is the guy we want in charge after the purge, after the crap season. I just hope things start clicking for him soon as there’s not really been much green shoots to latch onto and I’m worried we go into a death spiral if we can’t start even seeing some sort of improvements soon.
But this is not a squad that should be languishing in lower half of table. No amount of waffly “it’s all the squad” can disguise the fact that this squad finished 8th last season with an injury crisis that Amorim isn’t having to manage. I also think the squad isn’t weaker, with ugarte and Yoro defo good starting quality players.
I accept confidence is rock bottom but I don’t accept that lower then top half of league is “as good as could be expected”. That’s nonsense that’s been spouted to imply that the manager couldn’t do much better, well he could and if his “I’m doing it this way regardless of players” continues to struggle picking up points he won’t be around long enough to make it work.
Some fans have this weird managerial fetish that can be all or nothing , the manager is the messiah or pariah. I believe Amorim could have the quality to do great things but I fear he may not get the time to achieve it if the team doesn’t respond soon to whatever it is he wants. Managers have to adapt . Quality managers make alterations, sometimes game by game , if they feel it increases their teams chances of winning.
I always felt that losing in champions league final to Madrid was a powerful lesson for Klopp, particularly in the final win against spurs a season later. He learned how to win ugly and pragmatically. This was something Ferguson regularly did and only cheat code unlimited quality pep has the luxury of being able to ticky tacka away to his hearts content. Amorim may need to learn some pragmatism this season and I don’t see why it has to be all tactics or bust.
I think Amorim is the guy we want in charge after the purge, after the crap season. I just hope things start clicking for him soon as there’s not really been much green shoots to latch onto and I’m worried we go into a death spiral if we can’t start even seeing some sort of improvements soon.
When you hear players like Maguire coming out and saying Amorim is totally opposite to ETH then that can only be a good thing. However it just means these players are totally useless at playing the way Amorim wants.
Unfortunately I think it is all about the squad, some have been unable to grasp previous systems and are at it again. I agree that for once we have to let a manager get rid of players and rebuild the squad and give him time to do it. In the past we have let outside influences like who is big on social media dictate who stays.That has to change. I also tend to agree he could tinker with his system slightly without ditching it like ETH did. However not bringing in a striker and LWB is still going to cause us issues. The recruitment of players at this club has been laughable.
It took some time for Fergie to get the team going too. We need some patience
Still on the fence with Ruben atm.
Agreed on that point, we need to give him til the Summer at least. If performances haven't improved consistently come the end of the season then it'll be time to have a conversation about his future.
He came into a mess, is trying to bed in a new system and has had a rough run of fixtures. The run after the FA Cup is more forgiving and we really should start picking up some wins. If not he'll be in trouble.
Sir Alex also had to get rid of what he saw as bad influences at the club. Ruben has to be given time to do this and bring the right players with the right character.
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Again, I’m a long haul guy who will be one of the last to turn on a United manager, I just haven’t seen anybody explain the benefits of this rigid way of managing.
People have convinced themselves “well United managers have foolishly gone back to being pragmatic when it wasn’t working so maybe persisting with it is the best option for some reason”. You are correct that recruitment has been a massive issue but sticking with a failing system that doesn’t suit a squad doesn’t really sound wise on any meaningful level.
Like if we don’t beat Southampton in 2 weeks time , he’s gonna be under massive pressure as they are dogs*it bad. I want Amorim to get time, I just don’t think he’s gonna get it unless this system starts picking up points soon and feel that may require him to be more pragmatic and look to get more out of our players.
But every manager has to work with the squad they inherit. I don’t understand why people are presuming the issue is all the squad and that if somehow we don’t get relegated it’s been good that the manager stuck to his guns. What exactly are we gaining from that ?
Again, I’m a long haul guy who will be one of the last to turn on a United manager, I just haven’t seen anybody explain the benefits of this rigid way of managing.
People have convinced themselves “well United managers have foolishly gone back to being pragmatic when it wasn’t working so maybe persisting with it is the best option for some reason”. You are correct that recruitment has been a massive issue but sticking with a failing system that doesn’t suit a squad doesn’t really sound wise on any meaningful level.
Like if we don’t beat Southampton in 2 weeks time , he’s gonna be under massive pressure as they are dogs*it bad. I want Amorim to get time, I just don’t think he’s gonna get it unless this system starts picking up points soon and feel that may require him to be more pragmatic and look to get more out of our players.