Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

gulli_G said:
Weak argument using the same term revisionism. Are you honestly saying this squad is better than the one ETH inherited and he treated Amad fairly by playing Anthony and Aforson over him? Seems like your comment was a knee jerk reaction.
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When Ole left I think there was basically no defensive midfielder, a desperate need for a second center back, a completely distraught Maguire and Rashford, and generally no quality full back aside From Shaw. There was also no right winger. It was certainly a shit squad.

This squad has its flaws but De Ligt, Maz, Ugarte, a more in-form Maguire, Garnacho, Mainoo are huge additions in quality.

As for Amad it's a weird one, he should have started more under ten hag but he also had more maturing to do. Amorim has credited the way he was conditioned before he came so I don't think we should read too much into his case.
 
saivet said:
As much as we have to recognise it's a process we don't have to kid ourselves in thinking that relegation type form is part of the process. I'm backing him but fans have every right to have criticisms and doubts over Amorim. Since taking over, we sit 17th in the form table. Only Southampton, Leicester and Ipswich have been worse.

It's delusional if anything to accept this as part of the process and not worrying at all. We've not had an incredibly tough run of fixtures either.

Again not to say I want him out or I have no faith in him but to be concerned is fine. Amorim needs to get us playing much better football this season even if we don't buy or sell anyone in January. Part of his role is to make the team better which isn't happening at the moment.
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We have had an insanely tough run of fixtures, with most in-form teams - Arsenal, Bournemouth, Newcastle & Wolves within them. Now also Liverpool coming.
 
Feel sorry for Ruben. Given a real shit show and a honking run of fixtures to start off with. Let's hope his luck changes soon and we can get some more training sessions in. We could do with tomorrow's fixture getting called off for weather and address is again when we are playing a bit more cohesively.
 
soapythecat said:
Feel sorry for Ruben. Given a real shit show and a honking run of fixtures to start off with. Let's hope his luck changes soon and we can get some more training sessions in. We could do with tomorrow's fixture getting called off for weather and address is again when we are playing a bit more cohesively.
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Feel like the board have set him up to fail. We could have brought him in this month when there’s less games to give him more training sessions to implement his style.
 
SparcMac said:
Ajax's game plan would have won us multiple trophies but the start would have been as painful as it's now under Amorims. And that would have needed as big squad overhaul as we need now - with us needing to buy mobile and technically gifted players who could do with PL-s intensity.

ETH didn't have the stomach for it and after getting brutally outplayed by Brentford we went back to "player power" and scrapped all plans.

We can't do it now. Stay with the manager and let him to weed out unsuited.
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What was he actually trying to achieve though. Everyone knows he held significant sway over recruitment but the players we signed were mostly the opposite of mobile and in many cases lacked technical ability too

It's not like he developed the ajax style so not clear he was capable of implementing it somewhere new
 
gulli_G said:
Weak argument using the same term revisionism. Are you honestly saying this squad is better than the one ETH inherited and he treated Amad fairly by playing Anthony and Aforson over him? Seems like your comment was a knee jerk reaction.
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I'd much rather have the squad he started with right now plus even half of the £600m to spend (we wouldn't get that back now).
 
Matt851 said:
What was he actually trying to achieve though. Everyone knows he held significant sway over recruitment but the players we signed were mostly the opposite of mobile and in many cases lacked technical ability too

It's not like he developed the ajax style so not clear he was capable of implementing it somewhere new
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No idea, mostly why he failed - nobody understood what his endgame was. The players he signed weren't physical beasts neither or very fast.
 
SparcMac said:
We have had an insanely tough run of fixtures, with most in-form teams - Arsenal, Bournemouth, Newcastle & Wolves within them. Now also Liverpool coming.
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How were Wolves an in-form team? They'd just sacked their manager after some terrible performances.
 
DJ_21 said:
Feel like the board have set him up to fail. We could have brought him in this month when there’s less games to give him more training sessions to implement his style.
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He should've just joined at the end of the season. Yes, there was the "now or never" ultimatum from the club management, but he should've called their bluff. Who were they going to hire on a long contract instead? Moyes?
 
erikcred said:
How were Wolves an in-form team? They'd just sacked their manager after some terrible performances.
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Ye but unluckily for us they just hired a new manager and got their new manager bounce. First home game under him was us.
 
NLunited said:
This is revisionism at its finest! You will have a hard time making the argument this squad is worse than two years ago to begin with.

Amad started getting starts under Ten Hag last season after he was injured and became a key player when he started contributing.

Maz is one of the better players in the squad, picked up for next to nothing.

Amorim deserves time but no one can survive the losing streak we are on now if it continues. It is way worse than anything we have seen under 10Hag.
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Peps survived a lot worse of a run. 1 in 12 it was. But people will argue he’s deserved time with his success
 
Raoul said:
The tactics and formation aren't working because he doesn't have the players with the skills and mindset necessary to implement his philosophy. That doesn't mean he needs a brand new Starting XI, but it does expose the harsh reality that no manager can improve us if we simply can't score goals. Therefore a world class striker who has consistently demonstrated scoring a lot of goals over the past year or two is absolutely critical. Once we have that, all of the pieces will magically begin to take shape.
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I’m completely on board with bringing in a world class striker, without which it’s very tough to compete for a top four spot.
 
Amorim is no magician, he can't pull a rabbit out of this hat. Hopefully, we don't get relegated this season and get kick out of Europe next season so he can really work with the players focusing on domestic games weekly. Not sure how finance will work, Amorim needs at 7-8 new players. Definitely a top quality striker, 1 CM who can win ball and distribute the ball, attacking LWB and RWB so 4 players are a minimum. Hopefully a couple of rotational players. Having only domestic games to focus on, hopefully we can get back to top 4. I don't see a future for Garnacho, Rashford, Zirkzee, Casemiro, Eriksen, Malacia, Martinez, Dalot, Bruno, Shaw, Mount, Evan, Lindeloft, Antony, Sancho and backup keeper. More than 10 players that will not be part of this squad in the next couple of years.
 
VP89 said:
When Ole left I think there was basically no defensive midfielder, a desperate need for a second center back, a completely distraught Maguire and Rashford, and generally no quality full back aside From Shaw. There was also no right winger. It was certainly a shit squad.

This squad has its flaws but De Ligt, Maz, Ugarte, a more in-form Maguire, Garnacho, Mainoo are huge additions in quality.

As for Amad it's a weird one, he should have started more under ten hag but he also had more maturing to do. Amorim has credited the way he was conditioned before he came so I don't think we should read too much into his case.
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It is reported some of these signings were club signings.
 
Ruben Amorim is ranked 44 in Elo ratings for coaches. ETH is ranked 179.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I think we can say without any element of doubt that Ten Hag asked for every signing before last summers transfer except for Casemiro (because he wanted De Jong instead), who signed them off is a different matter, but these are the players Ten Hag wanted for sure which shows just what a terrible judge he was, and if he'd had his way we'd have got Arnaoutovic, Timber, De Jong, and Amrabat permanently as well.

We can't now say Amorim shouldn't be allowed to rip it all up just because Ten Hag messed up so badly, the only alternative is to sack Amorim now, and get a manager in to play to strengths of our current squad, which we already know now isn't good enough for anything other than scrapping for top 6, and a flucky cup run.
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This team would be better with those players.

I think the issue is that Amorim’s approach is “this system can’t work with these players - but I’m going to force them to play it anyway - even while on the worst losing streak this club has ever seen and you all just have to grin and bear it.”
 
NLunited said:
Yes and yes. Amad was played when he was fit and got starts once he started playing well.
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Just to add, he played well and got dropped ETH treated him badly, only started playing near the end when his job was on the line and had he played him earlier he would have still been here.
Thank God that didn't happen.
 
Posh Red said:
But basically any manager that has been successful at a top club over the last years in the EPL has signed that amount of players, so why does it sound like madness?
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Because we know the injuries derailed Ten Hag’s broader plans. The last several players in have mostly worked out. They sacked him anyway, for a new guy who says 9 or 10 of the squad have to go, and suddenly we see in the worst run of form seen in my lifetime, but the manager won’t adapt even though he himself has said these players can’t do what he’s demanding they do.
 
gulli_G said:
It is reported some of these signings were club signings.
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Theyre all club signings. Every signing is a club signing. The manager doesn't bend the club over over a table and have his way with them.

Before Amorim at least, there was a veto on both sides - and there had to be an agreement in unison between the club and the manager. Antony didn't come to the club just on Ten Hag's say so, and Pogba didn't rejoin us just on Jose's say so, even though we know both these coaches were keen on the player.

I'm unsure if the veto still exists, but at the very least Amorim will have heavy input in the process and thus have some element of control himself. The difference here however, will be that he is supplemented with recruiters of actual pedgiree and not clowns. So his shortlist will be much better curated than Ole/Jose/Ten Hag etc.
 
Just find it abit weird that there's no real bounce in our play. Its still all flat and lacking in enthusiasm.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Because we know the injuries derailed Ten Hag’s broader plans. The last several players in have mostly worked out. They sacked him anyway, for a new guy who says 9 or 10 of the squad have to go, and suddenly we see in the worst run of form seen in my lifetime, but the manager won’t adapt even though he himself has said these players can’t do what he’s demanding they do.
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Where did he wmsay 9 or 10 players need to go?

For the first time since Fergie we have a manager who sees the situation just like the fans do and Payer/ETH FC just can't give him even 1 transfer window or a preseason. Not even Fergie could rescue this squad.
 
saivet said:
As much as we have to recognise it's a process we don't have to kid ourselves in thinking that relegation type form is part of the process. I'm backing him but fans have every right to have criticisms and doubts over Amorim. Since taking over, we sit 17th in the form table. Only Southampton, Leicester and Ipswich have been worse.

It's delusional if anything to accept this as part of the process and not worrying at all. We've not had an incredibly tough run of fixtures either.

Again not to say I want him out or I have no faith in him but to be concerned is fine. Amorim needs to get us playing much better football this season even if we don't buy or sell anyone in January. Part of his role is to make the team better which isn't happening at the moment.
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Co-sign.
 
gulli_G said:
Where did he wmsay 9 or 10 players need to go?

For the first time since Fergie we have a manager who sees the situation just like the fans do and Payer/ETH FC just can't give him even 1 transfer window or a preseason. Not even Fergie could rescue this squad.
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Maybe this is being taken as an article of faith at the moment — but if he can’t see that 9 or 10 of these players aren’t fitting into this system, then that’s us doubly fecked.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Just find it abit weird that there's no real bounce in our play. Its still all flat and lacking in enthusiasm.
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they approach each match like they’re at a family gathering that their other half forced them to go to.
 
For all those complaining about his results, need context, he did not play a settled team like ETH and attempt to get results, he said from the get go, he will start implementing his idea and there will be a storm.

He gave everyone a chance by rotating and quickly realised the level of the players. Something other previous managers have failed to do. He's been here under 2 months and people losing patience.

For those saying he hasn't adapted, he has , in game our formation has constantly changed and his in game management is probably the best since Fergie, where he doesn't wait till 65 mins (Ole) or the near the end of the match (ETH) to make changes.

What can he do when he has inherited:

*Unfit Squad
*Injuries
*Players who can't string 5 yard passes or hold on to the ball
*Limited technical ability and levels

And he has to go from a counter attacking team to his possession based style. To be fair he asked to come in the Summer, but he got the ultimatumto come now or lose out.
 
gulli_G said:
For all those complaining about his results, need context, he did not play a settled team like ETH and attempt to get results, he said from the get go, he will start implementing his idea and there will be a storm.

He gave everyone a chance by rotating and quickly realised the level of the players. Something other previous managers have failed to do. He's been here under 2 months and people losing patience.

For those saying he hasn't adapted, he has , in game our formation has constantly changed and his in game management is probably the best since Fergie, where he doesn't wait till 65 mins (Ole) or the near the end of the match (ETH) to make changes.

What can he do when he has inherited:

*Unfit Squad
*Injuries
*Players who can't string 5 yard passes or hold on to the ball
*Limited technical ability and levels

And he has to go from a counter attacking team to his possession based style. To be fair he asked to come in the Summer, but he got the ultimatumto come now or lose out.
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The problem is Ten Hag could say the same thing. While we don’t have Balon d’Or contenders, the squad has improved from when he joined.

One early sub in 11 matches that corrects his own mistake is not really enough to say his in game management is good or that he’s adapted. More often than not he’s left us swinging in the breeze.

If City get their titles stripped, Ten Hag will have won the league came in 2nd with his ragtag bunch of misfits, plus two other minor trophies. I just don’t see why people are cool with Amorim driving us into a relegation* scrap and letting him use the excuse that it’s going to be years before we see the results. Finishing in 2nd place seems a million miles off from where we are.

*potentially
 
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FrankDrebin said:
Just find it abit weird that there's no real bounce in our play. Its still all flat and lacking in enthusiasm.
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I’m actually happy there is no bounce. Usually, this bounce is fake. Some players get contract extensions because of this fake bounce. I’m happy that shite players are playing shite and players with attitude are showing their bad attitude and players with bad discipline are showing their bad discipline. Let everyone be accountable, if someone is not good enough, he’s out of the amorim’s plans and up for sale. We need a massive clean up
 
Several managers have tried and failed to get the squad performing consistently at a higher level; before Amorim got started I said he would probably have the same problems.

We have fallen to new levels of being shiit, but Amorim has shown he is far from incompetent. He is encountering the same issues as before, but is sticking to his plan. I hope he turns our form around.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
The problem is Ten Hag could say the same thing. While we don’t have Balon d’Or contenders, the squad has improved from when he joined.

One early sub in 11 matches that corrects his own mistake is not really enough to say his in game management is good or that he’s adapted. More often than not he’s left us swinging in the breeze.

If City get their titles stripped, Ten Hag will have won the league with his ragtag bunch of misfits, plus two other minor trophies. I just don’t see why people are cool with Amorim driving us into a relegation* scrap and letting him use the excuse that it’s going to be years before we see the results.

*potentially
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You forgot about arsenal?
 
Just looked at the table now and realised there's a gap opening from top half to bottom, ie 27pts to 22pts... and the top 8 are on 32pts... so another (expected) loss tomorrow and we'll have A LOT of catching up to do. But this is where we are.

A run of 3 straights wins - as simple as it sounds - would obv give us 9pts, but that could give us a massive leg up towards the European places. Hard to see where we can put that run together though - I reckon the likes of West Ham, Everton and Southampton would restrict us to scoring only 1 goal and probably nick one themselves, even though we'd push 65+% possession.

Continue as we have been and we could well end up on <50pts come the end of the season. Spurs might not be much better.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
The problem is Ten Hag could say the same thing. While we don’t have Balon d’Or contenders, the squad has improved from when he joined.

One early sub in 11 matches that corrects his own mistake is not really enough to say his in game management is good or that he’s adapted. More often than not he’s left us swinging in the breeze.

If City get their titles stripped, Ten Hag will have won the league with his ragtag bunch of misfits, plus two other minor trophies. I just don’t see why people are cool with Amorim driving us into a relegation* scrap and letting him use the excuse that it’s going to be years before we see the results.

*potentially
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What are you on about? Ten Hag had several years and hundreds and hundreds of millions spent on the squad, and yet the longer he was here the worse we got.

That cannot be reasonably compared to Amorim who has only been here a couple months, hasn’t bought any players, and has been thrown in to a brutal fixture period with a team whose confidence had already been shattered by Ten Hag.
 
gulli_G said:
Just to add, he played well and got dropped ETH treated him badly, only started playing near the end when his job was on the line and had he played him earlier he would have still been here.
Thank God that didn't happen.
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Nope Amad did not convince in his cameos. As soon as he came good, he got starts. That‘s how it is supposed to work.
 
united for life said:
I’m actually happy there is no bounce. Usually, this bounce is fake. Some players get contract extensions because of this fake bounce. I’m happy that shite players are playing shite and players with attitude are showing their bad attitude and players with bad discipline are showing their bad discipline. Let everyone be accountable, if someone is not good enough, he’s out of the amorim’s plans and up for sale. We need a massive clean up
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:lol:

A bounce just means a temporary upswing in performances and/or results. What the hell is a ''fake'' bounce?

This is just another post along the lines of "relegation may be good for us, so I'm happy we're losing every match".
 
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