Fans want a reset and can't contemplate the levels of pain that come with it. Some think you just say reset and you suddenly start playing well. The coach is new, he doesn't know the players intimately and they don't know him, so it's inevitable that he will think that he can trust some like Malacia, Casemiro and Eriksen and they cost us points. He will learn and we will benefit from that.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
I wish this was someone trolling but you're right. We have a mid-table squad.
I do still believe we'll win the league before you guys do.
Hey, why stop there? Maybe we are on the brink of a potential 12-0 defeat to Liverpool? I get your point though obviously
Oh absolutely, it is really bad no doubt. Amorim alluded to something the other day, which I must admit I had noticed too. He said that in having only had four training sessions, the players have forgotten certain elements of his idea. It's true. Even in games that we lost, (Arsenal, Forest, Spurs), despite being far from perfect, there was some sort of a style/foundation. Pretty much from the Bournemouth game onwards, that has been lost a bit. Hopefully, now that the schedule will soften slightly, more time on the training pitch will provide the players with a clearer picture moving forward.
That's interesting. Really, we have been relatively solid in games, in fairness even if the players have forgotten elements. It's the set pieces that are currently killing us the most, needs to be urgently sorted.
One thing that is bothering me about Amorim. He is (rightly) dead-set on sticking to the formation and tactics, but those tactics are heavily reliant on really strong and progressive wingbacks. Yet, he keeps playing Dalot and Maz who are not that. Instead of moving Amad up he really should have kept him as RWB and gambled on some one like Amass at LWB.
Amorim says it's his way or no way but he's not showing it. Hope these poor results show him that he has to stick to his guns but he has far less room to try things out now with how many games we've lost.
Amorim says it's his way or no way but he's not showing it. Hope these poor results show him that he has to stick to his guns but he has far less room to try things out now with how many games we've lost.
Your talking sense attitude won’t go down well on here.
It's been going on for too long. Remember Henrik Larsson?
Exactly right. Set pieces aside, Arsenal didn't really look like scoring against us. Despite not looking dangerous ourselves, we looked very composed in possesion and had a very decent share of the ball. Particularly in the first half. We completely controlled the game against Forest. 71% of the ball and bossed every single statistic. Individual errors and set pieces our failing again. Even against Spurs, there were elements of our play that were really very good and I don't even mean during our little fight back.
As much as the win at City has been played down by some people (Gary Neville, no less), it was no fluke. We looked really composed and possession was practically 50/50. We were comfortably the better side in the second half.
It was obviously at a very early stage, but something was being formed. We need to regain that.
So do we back the manager or back the players to decide how we play?
Amorim was given the job BECAUSE of his tactics, NOT in spite of. If you get Amorim then you get his tactics. He's prepared to die on that hill and I can respect that
serious question- what are the odds of him being sacked? I like the guy, i see how much he cares but if the results don't improve he might be in danger.
I'm worried as i feel current lot of defenders is confused, they don't know how to defend balls coming from wide areas. I think we will concede dozes of goals this way.
I'm worried as i feel current lot of defenders is confused, they don't know how to defend balls coming from wide areas. I think we will concede dozes of goals this way.
I do agree with this. We could really do with two Amad's. The issue is that with Mount's persistent injuries, we are really short in that double 10 position, but as you say, we aren't getting enough of an attacking threat from Mazraoui and Dalot. You could move Mainoo into a more advanced position, but then you're comprising the central midfield position.
Honestly, a good manager uses his players however he feels will get the best out of them.
Fergie for example abandoned his favoured 4-4-2 when it became clear something different was required to better Europe, Chelsea and later City. Mourinho at his best flap flapped depending on the opposition.
A dipshit would continue to do something that doesn’t work, I wouldn’t call it good management.
I’m fairly sure we’ll see a good few changes in the coming weeks.
If he realises he doesn’t have the players for his preferred system/tactics, then he absolutely should get the best out of his players until he can bring in the resources to make his style work.
I think zero chance. They'll back him through the Summer and into next Season. If we're still playing goddamn awful by January 26 then that's a different story.
We looked OK in the first half against arsenal but in a completely sterile way. We seem to have even less of a clue about how to score goals against teams that play deeper which is obviously not helped by having 3 centre backs.
You get different types of managers. Some are less tied to a particular ideology and that comes with it's own problems. These types of managers may find it difficult to formulate a clear style of play. Consistency and repetition is important. We've played quite an emotional, off the cuff game at times and I don't believe that's the way to achieve sustainable success. Amorim falls into the bracket of what some may call a "system manager". He has one idea. He lives and dies by his principles. He can tweak things within his system (think of the wing-backs), but ultimately this is who he is. Perhaps this type of manager is more of a modern trend? Pep is similar in that sense.
I do agree with you. We were no threat at all against Arsenal, but there was a pragmatism and a foundation there that gave us a lot of control. Obviously our attacking options are not great and Amad aside, we don't get enough from our wing-backs.
This season is a write off, so whatever it takes for Amorim to survive relegation, that’s the main focus. Be pragmatic if necessary. Even change formation, but only until we’re safe.
When staying up is secured, you focus on the long term workings/making players perform in the system. Dont scrap the system, you get a manager in because you believe in the blueprint he has - he’ll be on thin ice if he has to reinvent everything permanently, and why even fire Ashworth then?
Makes zero chance to first sack Ashworth, then Amorim if you don’t trust Amorim. Makes zero sense to not back him for more than half a year. There will be pain when cleaning up this mess - just endure it and focus long term.
When staying up is secured, you focus on the long term workings/making players perform in the system. Dont scrap the system, you get a manager in because you believe in the blueprint he has - he’ll be on thin ice if he has to reinvent everything permanently, and why even fire Ashworth then?
Makes zero chance to first sack Ashworth, then Amorim if you don’t trust Amorim. Makes zero sense to not back him for more than half a year. There will be pain when cleaning up this mess - just endure it and focus long term.
Pretty much this. Objective is to survive relegation this season and get Amorim to the summer. Then we properly start from there.
We need to do much more than just 'survive' relegation.
We need players to want to join us. It would be a bit more difficult to attract good players if Amorim managed us for more than 2/3rds of the season, only to finish 17th on goal difference on the final day because Southampton conceded a last minute goal in their match.
Of course I dont mean finishing 17th on the last day. But also don't expect us to win a lot of games from now till the end of the year and dont expect any trophies or cup runs either.
I can't get behind this thinking, unfortunately. We will avoid relegation by sticking to Amorim's system/formation. We aren't going down. I'm not interested in delaying our process and clearly, neither is he.
It would be offensive to Amorim to expect him to change his approach. His way with no deviations.
We are on 22 points - we aren’t getting relegated. Ride out the hidings and get players up to speed
About time we have an identity again - wouldv said philosophy but LVG ruined that word for me
100%.
We have focused on short term solutions for too long, time to finally commit.
Its a huge huge job. Hojlund, Zirkzee, Anthony, Casemeiro, Eriksen, Dalot, Shaw(injuries), Rashford,Malacia, Lindelof all need to be replaced if we want to properly compete with his current 3-4-3 formation which does not suit the current players at the club whatsoever.
This looks like it going be a three year process or longer and that's if he gets it right which there is no guarantees of. I think he needs to abandon his 3-4-3 for the moment in all honesty and try to build back the confidence. I'm not even sure this 3-4-3 is suitable for the premier league due to the strength, intensity and quality of the premier league.
We are in a really bad place at the minute. The worst united team I've seen during my lifetime and I'm 36
This looks like it going be a three year process or longer and that's if he gets it right which there is no guarantees of. I think he needs to abandon his 3-4-3 for the moment in all honesty and try to build back the confidence. I'm not even sure this 3-4-3 is suitable for the premier league due to the strength, intensity and quality of the premier league.
We are in a really bad place at the minute. The worst united team I've seen during my lifetime and I'm 36
Agreed. I'm fully on board and I think that many were of the same view, initially. It's just amazing to see how many jump ship when things get a bit difficult. I shouldn't be surprised, but some of the reaction after such a short time frame is baffling.
Exactly. It's not an excuse. Amorim knew the squad, he knew what the players were essentially capable of, and yet he's been incredibly stubborn, naive and idealist all at once with them.
So he wants to play 3 at the back? That's great, buy the players and try. Until then, be a manager. Work with what you're given. And what he was given was a top 8 squad, easily.
Remember about 10/11 years ago when David Moyes said we needed to improve on passing, defending and creating chances. As any of this even improved? The passing definitely hasn’t. We can’t make simple 5 yard passes. It’s a joke, Sunday league players make better passes and don’t get paid.
Just have to be patient, 4-5 weeks it's been, come on now.
The club is also going through huge changes and it really starts here with Amorim. It's only natural when Ineos come in they have a rough plan, mistakes are made early then things emerge like Ashworth not fitting.
Berrada going getting Amorim is day 1 for me out of the past rubble and Ineos change over. In just a few weeks we've seen much better general play, much touches in the oppositions box but sadly our finishing is still poor and there's been a large amount strange mistakes bunched together. I do think this will improve and we'll be quite safe.
The mess from previous summer transfers is huge, so much money wasted that could build several squads. The board and manager will have to work in unison to slowly swap out the bad and work with other players.
People saying what's the point of teaching the players as they won't be here is just silly. Amorim will have to work with the players and gradually some will leave and he has to rely on those that stay to continue, it will take several windows for our team/squad to change and teams will often change in 2-4 years, that's just the nature of the job. In three summers with ETH the active first team changed a lot but sadly it was more expensive crap in and crap out to where we have so many old players and a bunch of young players that are years away and with fitness/training on the floor.
I don't care if we finish, 8th, 10th, 15th. Just let Amorim continue coaching, let the board find the players for him and we can finally stop this band aid counter attack.
The club is also going through huge changes and it really starts here with Amorim. It's only natural when Ineos come in they have a rough plan, mistakes are made early then things emerge like Ashworth not fitting.
Berrada going getting Amorim is day 1 for me out of the past rubble and Ineos change over. In just a few weeks we've seen much better general play, much touches in the oppositions box but sadly our finishing is still poor and there's been a large amount strange mistakes bunched together. I do think this will improve and we'll be quite safe.
The mess from previous summer transfers is huge, so much money wasted that could build several squads. The board and manager will have to work in unison to slowly swap out the bad and work with other players.
People saying what's the point of teaching the players as they won't be here is just silly. Amorim will have to work with the players and gradually some will leave and he has to rely on those that stay to continue, it will take several windows for our team/squad to change and teams will often change in 2-4 years, that's just the nature of the job. In three summers with ETH the active first team changed a lot but sadly it was more expensive crap in and crap out to where we have so many old players and a bunch of young players that are years away and with fitness/training on the floor.
I don't care if we finish, 8th, 10th, 15th. Just let Amorim continue coaching, let the board find the players for him and we can finally stop this band aid counter attack.
And Moyes said that about the reigning champions.
Sporting fans went through the same at the beginning they even say so now. Fans need to have some patience, take the rose tinted specs off and accept we are a midnlevel team. These are ETH players and he left us with dross who can't control a ball or pass 5 yards.
The only 2 players who can Ruben has said are the future of the club as they are able to adapt, they possess what I believe to be the correct characteristics:
* Technical Ability
* Game intelligence
Unfortunately a lot of our players lack these traits. You can play 451 and results will be the same just worse football. ETH worsened the squad and it has continued to get worse.
The only 2 players who can Ruben has said are the future of the club as they are able to adapt, they possess what I believe to be the correct characteristics:
* Technical Ability
* Game intelligence
Unfortunately a lot of our players lack these traits. You can play 451 and results will be the same just worse football. ETH worsened the squad and it has continued to get worse.
If they can be arsed, perhaps.
As others have said, managers have tried with these players before, they always down tools in the end, as I'm sure they would have with Ruud.
Instead we have appointed a manager who has a clear vision - how about we give him time to try to implement it eh?
Absolutely ridiculous people are moaning already, for christ sake give him time. It's clear to anyone how messed up we are.
Who are the top 8 players in this squad?
The problem with us is any manager could talk a good game and BS their way through to get 3 years and 700M to spend without any actual style of play.
We need to stop this as we have football people in charge now. Hope they will evaluate at the end of the season and make decision on Amorim. He needs to improve and meet the minimum requirement of establishing an effective style of play. Otherwise no point to give him another year and 300m to change the entire squad again.
We need to stop this as we have football people in charge now. Hope they will evaluate at the end of the season and make decision on Amorim. He needs to improve and meet the minimum requirement of establishing an effective style of play. Otherwise no point to give him another year and 300m to change the entire squad again.
Even if he’s insisting on 3 at the back, he surely has to be open to changing up the attacking roles.
3412 with Bruno in a central No.10 role and two mobile forwards up top.
Playing Zirkzee and Bruno as wide forwards makes no sense. There’s zero benefit to the side in doing that.
3412 with Bruno in a central No.10 role and two mobile forwards up top.
Playing Zirkzee and Bruno as wide forwards makes no sense. There’s zero benefit to the side in doing that.
No decision necessary. He shouldn't be going anywhere.