May be I am simplifying matters, but I want all United hierarchy to come out and put these guys on the bubble. Different formation, different instructions, are they really that hard to learn in an acceptable manner for a professional? Especially players who have been here Ole or before, they have all been making excuses for far too long.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
My post wasn’t being aggressive. I apologise if it came across that way. I thought I made quite a decent analogy. I get what you’re saying but every single one of us knows we need a proper rebuild. Aslong as we still have the Rashfords and the Maguires here we ain’t improving anything. Time to move on and bring in some proper quality, but not just quality players they have to have the right mindset and be a genuine down to earth person aswell. Not someone with a bad attitude which we seem to pick up a lot of them.
Stubborn in which way? I hope you don’t mean him sticking with his system because that’s what we all argued ETH should have done instead of change at the first sign of trouble.
I’m all for Amorim sticking to his tactics but the issue is if the United hierarchy will endure more bad performances and potentially a fight for survival for the sake of long term gain? The Glazers don’t strike me as people would take a (financial) hit for the good of the club. My guess is Amorim would be sacked before the end of this season if results do not turn. What an utter mess we are.
Players aren't going to seriously bother adapting to a system they know doesn't suit them especially if they perceive the coach to be of snakey character who will cut them loose anyway. We have many of such players right now.
It's just common sense that Amorim is going to fail badly this season unless he is allowed to bring in competent reinforcements in Jan, or be more willing to adapt to the players at his disposal.
It's just common sense that Amorim is going to fail badly this season unless he is allowed to bring in competent reinforcements in Jan, or be more willing to adapt to the players at his disposal.
They dont have a say in football matters anymore
ETH tweaked when results looked like ne might face the sack before barely getting his feet in the door.
ETH then bought a feck tonne of his own hand picked players and had lots of time to attempt to implement his system with his players.
What we’re saying is that if this system is fecked due to the resources available to him, then his first priority should be to keep his job until he can start to get in players that suit his system.
Continuing to play a system that exposes so many of his squads weaknesses would be a daft move, at the very least he needs to start making some serious tweaks.
Avoiding relegation is our best case scenario this season. Amorim needs to survive and make it to the summer.
To me this is logical and common sense. I dont understand why so many people have a hard time swallowing it. In a perfect world, the manager gets to play his way. But it isnt perfect, and sometimes you have to make do with what you have.
Its not the Ruben Amorim show, its the Man Utd show. He says he does what is best for the team. At the moment he is doing what is best for his own ego, or even worse, he doesnt know what else to do.
If you have the best team, in a 2 or 3 horse league, you can play whatever way you like. But it doesnt work in the premier league, where everybody has good players. You get found out and have to adapt. Postecoglou is exactly the same.
Amorim seems to have no plan B. His plan B is do plan A better, and that doesnt cut it at the top level.
He says he was brought in for his idea. Well what if your idea doesnt work (in the short term).
This is a good point.
Yet again the players have somehow managed to get the supporters to make excuses for them. You honestly couldn’t script this
That’s his own choice, though. He could have done it Ruud’s way, started out simple and then gradually introduced his ideas. He chose not to. He chose to change a lot immediately, and to ask low-confidence players who need to think as little as possible, to think a lot. It may turn out to be the right choice in the end but it is his choice and his responsibility.
ETH changed his style not system; which you benefitted. Finishing third, won the cup and FA Cup finalists.
The next season he changed system and style again which didn't suit the team. Thus, you struggled.
I'm torn on it.....
you have to respect Amorim. He was hired to coach these players to a system
at the same time the United hierarchy will be nervous with the results in the last month.
they obviously made a huge mistake with Ten Hag and they won't want to make another in not giving Amorim the tools he needs.
I wonder can we see some wiggle room on PSR and bring in one or two
you have to respect Amorim. He was hired to coach these players to a system
at the same time the United hierarchy will be nervous with the results in the last month.
they obviously made a huge mistake with Ten Hag and they won't want to make another in not giving Amorim the tools he needs.
I wonder can we see some wiggle room on PSR and bring in one or two
Learning isn't the issue. All players have physical and technical limitations.
Messi is a professional and isn't going to suddenly become a target man.
I'm sorry but this Amorim guy has come in and created the wrong environment imo.
Even after the first season there were concerns over the way we played. If you read the end of season review thread or the thread about expectations for the following season, you’ll see lots of comments about how he needed to implement a style of football.
We were very pragmatic and quite boring to watch, with some of the issues already present. We had some truly terrible performances even in that season, along with a pasting off Liverpool. We obviously benefited from other team’s being woeful to help our league position. Most of us knew that we weren’t out of the woods yet despite the relative success of that season.
I bet you complained about Arteta at first too?
How would you know what the environment is like?
I think his full name is "this Arteta guy".
The whole system is not suiting the players thing is over exaggerated. There might be a couple who maybe are not most suited to play this, but on the whole, a lot of our players can easily find a place in the new system.
The main problem we have is that there is a genuine dearth of quality in the squad. This problem exists irrespective of the system and is also the reason why our previous manager lost his job. We have squandered a large amount of money in a very short amount of time on players who either don’t have it (Antony, Casemiro, Mount, Malacia, Onana?) or need a lot of development (Hojlund, Zirkzee, Yoro) to reach the desired level. This is likely to hamstring us for the next 2-3 transfer windows and why I believe our progress will be slow.
We need to give Amorim time to identify players he would like to keep and then have a 2-3 window approach in replacing those that don’t make the cut.
It’s a bit of a false narrative anyway. We’re not asking any of our players to play a role which is completely alien to them. Even Garnacho spends most of his time in wide areas, he just comes in and plays like shit. Look at the last game, how many times did he get dispossessed in wide left areas, exactly the areas he wants to play and is used to playing. The issue is the structured play, the new patterns in build up etc.
The only players that play out of position are Mazraoui, who has been largely good there, and Dalot. Even the latter should be doing a lot better than he is in that position, given he has played LB plenty of times and is usually ok in attack.
I am on the Amorim train as much as anyone else and am desperate for him to succeed. However, I am terrified when I read the same excuse about getting him a completely new squad before he can succeed that are made on here. Yes, he can do with 2-3 solid additions to the squad in terms of a striker, lwb and a #10, but he simply has to improve the current players and implement his style of football with what he has available otherwise there would be no point of getting him in the middle of the season.
He himself mentions that he needs time to get his ideas across and players at times look confused as they are getting completely new information from they have been fed the last 2 years+. Let's have some patience and wait for it develop before deciding that the entire squad needs to be sold and we need another billion dollars worth of players to improve. The ask right now is a good playing style and some wins. He is not being asked to win the league right away.
He himself mentions that he needs time to get his ideas across and players at times look confused as they are getting completely new information from they have been fed the last 2 years+. Let's have some patience and wait for it develop before deciding that the entire squad needs to be sold and we need another billion dollars worth of players to improve. The ask right now is a good playing style and some wins. He is not being asked to win the league right away.
I think we lose to both Liverpool and Asrsenal then we will suddenly see a turn around. Likely finish 8th to 10th.
For me the season and Amo's stint starts from Jan 16th, if we don't see improved results and performances from then till the end of the season then we'd have a lot to think about.
Its not an excuse and it doesn’t take a genius to know that players such as Rashford, Casemiro, Eriksen, Shaw, Lindelof, Mount need to be replaced and positions such as striker needs to be bolstered. Not acknowledging this is equally bad as those claiming the whole squad needs to be replaced.
Ofcourse he will need to get the team playing to a certain level in the meanwhile. However, that level is nowhere near a top 6 PL level. In saying that, it is also not relegation level so a balanced view needs to be taken.
Agree, the wolves game we were in control, we would have gone on to win if it weren’t for the red. The Newcastle game with Bruno and Ugarte suspended showed we have zero depth in Midfield although he’s learned that Mainoo can play and has double the energy of Cas and Erikson. Newcastle are an on form team at the moment scoring 21 goals in December, they are big powerful and fast players. I understand why he used Zirkzee at his size and tried Cas. It’s a humbling for us all.
With Bruno and Ugarte back we can try to give a good account of ourselves over the next two games.
We were in control vs Wolves? What were you watching?
We were completely crap even until Bruno's red card, we didnt do anything and they looked far more dangerous than we did.
I didn’t say we were good but we were in control. 1st half we had 57.6%
More shots both on and off target. There was little danger at that point of losing and I think 11 v 11 we’d have been better in the second half. The sending off cost us big time.
Yes, but those aren't the only players we have. We have other 14-15 players in the squad too. If Amo is good enough, then with time we should be able to see a discernible change in out style of play and results even with what we have available. Again, no one is asking him to win the league or even finish in the top 4. However, seeing improvements by the end of the season should be a non-negotiable. He has to show that he deserves investment, it shouldn't be a default like it has been with the other managers. We don't want to be in the same situation 2 years from now that we are in currently.
He instilled confidence, motivation and balance between attack and defence. Sometimes, these are more important than an identity or playing style.
To kick on, he just had to be smarter in the transfer window. Instead, Mount and Houijlund signed for a combined £130M. This alongside ETH tweaking slightly tweaking tactics, completely unbalanced you. I'd also say your injury record last season was very unlucky
Arteta should've been sacked but tbf, he was initially quite pragmatic and had us in the top half of the table.
It was his first full season where we lurked around 15th place for awhile. Overrall, the situations were different.
Lots of people say the clubs rotten, that theres a bad culture, and players don't work hard.
These are large parts of the managers job. Theres sufficient talent in the squad for them to finish top half, at least, if he can maximize them.
What environment has Amorim created, and how does it differ from before?
Sad state of affairs when back-to-back games against Liverpool and Arsenal are almost written off as defeats beforehand, but it's tough to imagine anything else.
We better hope that we have all players fit and available for the run starting with Southampton on the 16th. This club desperately needs to string some results together, one way or the other.
That is exactly what he is trying to change.
It fecking embarrassing, but that's where we are as a club. It's a relief if we can come out of a big game without a pasting.
However, I wasn't simply saying that because I expect us to lose both the games convincingly. I mentioned it because we got 16 days with only two games between the Newcastle game on the 30th to the Southampton games on the 16th. The manager has constantly repeated how he is not getting enough time on the training pitch with the players due to the relentless schedule. This less hectic 2 weeks should give him more time to train these players and get his ideas across. With a relatively easier schedule coming up starting the Southampton game we should expect to see better displays and results. Also, maybe the club would have helped him with a LWB and a striker with the window now open.
Arguing with another member
No they weren’t. If you’re going to make such a stupid posts then keep the feck out of threads that have nothing do do with your poxy club. The idea of an Arsenal fan, of all people, coming in here and saying that Amorim’s not been quick enough to change the club culture and improve results, after being in charge for 9 league games, would be fecking hilarious if it wasn’t so annoying.
Liverpool are going to score at least 4
Just prepare for the worst in the next 2-3 years, United is in a crisis which no manager can fixed within the next 1-2 years. I blame Glazers and ETH for this mess, not Amorim. Glazers hires ETH and allow him to do whatever he wants with the funds. ETH did exactly what he feels is comfortable bringing in Martinez (smallest and shortest CB), Antony who has no pace or physicality to take on EPL defenders, Malacia who hasn't been feature, injury prone Mount, Onana who isn't better than what we had, Hoijund who at most is backup. It will takes Amorim at least 3 years to get in another group of players can play in the EPL, dare I say that we are unlikely win anything until 2030. We weren't competing in the EPL in the last 10 years so I expect another 10 years where we struggle to find our identity.
The rage and melt down will be wild even though both sides are currently much better than us at the moment.
Yes. It's early days but doesn't look great at the moment. It's fine for a manager to have principles and beliefs, but just saying that's the only option while we're conceding cheap goals, not scoring many and losing more often than not doesn't look particularly promising.
Hopefully he can turn it around at some point soon, I like him and he seems to talk sense, but what happens on the pitch matters for me. There shouldn't be any writing off a season when people are paying money to watch the team each week, we should always be doing our best to win football matches.
My concern is that we end up with another Ten Hag situation early on where we're essentially told to keep the faith and trust the processes without seeing any evidence of significant improvement in results because 'vision and principles'.
Hopefully the people saying this are right, I'm wrong, and we come out flying next season.