This really jumps out to me. With Maz and Dalot at WB it seems like do not create close to enough vs any type of team.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
This really jumps out to me. With Maz and Dalot at WB it seems like do not create close to enough vs any type of team.
Amorim doesn't turn in to a bad manager overnight.
The players are the issue and we need an overhaul asap. Just need to get us to the end of the season.
The players are the issue and we need an overhaul asap. Just need to get us to the end of the season.
It was always going to be tough to ask the players to change systems directly before Christmas. This highlights the absurdity of not sacking ETH in the International window when he could have at least got some training sessions in.
Honestly, the clubs management are a joke. We've handed Amorim an impossible challenge directly before the most intense part of the Season. It was always going to end in tears because no amount of wand waving will fix this group of incompetent players.
Honestly, the clubs management are a joke. We've handed Amorim an impossible challenge directly before the most intense part of the Season. It was always going to end in tears because no amount of wand waving will fix this group of incompetent players.
A catastrophe of the highest magnitude and end of Man United as we know it -- not even joking. The sheer financial ruins we would be in means the likelihood of us languishing down there for years on end is pretty high, let alone tasting any form of success. I don't even want to think of it.
He needs to find thr right balance for this system.
I would put amad back at Rwb. He added new dimension there.
Drop Martinez at Lcb. He seems to be struggling in this system though he does add with his passing but defensively he is struggling.
Buy a new Lwb. Who knows the system and fits.
Then solidify the midfield with Casemiro, Ugarte, Mainoo and Fernandez in those 4 positions and stil with Hoilund as striker.
I would put amad back at Rwb. He added new dimension there.
Drop Martinez at Lcb. He seems to be struggling in this system though he does add with his passing but defensively he is struggling.
Buy a new Lwb. Who knows the system and fits.
Then solidify the midfield with Casemiro, Ugarte, Mainoo and Fernandez in those 4 positions and stil with Hoilund as striker.
Would be game over, our finances would never withstand that.
I never once saw a competent, controlled performance under ETH that felt like it was to do with him and a fully realised system. Regardless of the stats, when I watch us under Amorim, I see the skeleton of something potentially exciting once he gets it all right. And let’s not discount the power of charisma either. ETH’s first press conference underwhelmed me. I’ll always remember that feeling. Amorim is incredibly likeable. We really need to stick this out.
I simply couldn’t imagine not wanting to see this very likable and charming Bloke succeed here, and yet it’s obvious many have either already changed their minds on him or didn’t let him from day one.
What we have seen so far in this system.
Onana
Mazraoui De Ligt Yoro
Amad Ugarte Casemiro Dalot
Bruno Mainoo
Hojlund
Would that be something we should try vs Liverpool?
Onana
Mazraoui De Ligt Yoro
Amad Ugarte Casemiro Dalot
Bruno Mainoo
Hojlund
Would that be something we should try vs Liverpool?
I agree that Amad needs to move back to RWB because it will mean having an extra attacker on the pitch.
Three centre backs plus Dalot and Maz is just too defensive.
Three centre backs plus Dalot and Maz is just too defensive.
Busy January with 7 matches in 25 days and not a lot of time for that much needed training on the pitch that Ruben keeps asking for.
Sunday 5 January - Liverpool (A)
Sunday 12 January - Arsenal (A) (FA CUP)
Thursday 16 January - Southampton (H)
Sunday 19 January - Brighton (H)
Thursday 23 January - Rangers (H) (Europa League)
Sunday 26 January - Fulham (A)
Thursday 30 January - Steaua Bucharest (Europa League)
Could have been 8 games with a League cup semi final v Liverpool. Blessing in disguise to have avoided that.
Sunday 5 January - Liverpool (A)
Sunday 12 January - Arsenal (A) (FA CUP)
Thursday 16 January - Southampton (H)
Sunday 19 January - Brighton (H)
Thursday 23 January - Rangers (H) (Europa League)
Sunday 26 January - Fulham (A)
Thursday 30 January - Steaua Bucharest (Europa League)
Could have been 8 games with a League cup semi final v Liverpool. Blessing in disguise to have avoided that.
Couldn't agree more.
Something‘s not right.
Because those first minutes against Newcastle wasn‘t a bumpy road, it was out in the wild without any road in sight.
Surely that can’t be what he meant when he said it would be a rough start?!
A managers job is to provide solutions, and even though the ressources at his disposal are very limited, he has to offer more than what we are seeing right now.
If he is the manager we want and believe him to be, then why does the team look as if they weren‘t just learning a new system but a whole new sport?
Because those first minutes against Newcastle wasn‘t a bumpy road, it was out in the wild without any road in sight.
Surely that can’t be what he meant when he said it would be a rough start?!
A managers job is to provide solutions, and even though the ressources at his disposal are very limited, he has to offer more than what we are seeing right now.
If he is the manager we want and believe him to be, then why does the team look as if they weren‘t just learning a new system but a whole new sport?
That tends to happen when you keep losing. I hope he turns it around before it is too late.
I’m not going to defend him or the performance against Newcastle, but I think Zirkzee and Casemiro were both just ridiculously bad, on top of poor performances elsewhere. You simply can’t account for those type of performances from players, but for both to happen at once was just bad. When we made the change for just Zirkzee we improved and at least looked semi competent again. Obviously the game was won by the and Newcastle settled on their 2 goals, but the stats showed how the game swung our way off just 1 substitute.
I think there’s no room for manoeuvre with our squad. I’d you don’t have your best 11 then it’s a big problem. And our best 11 in this system is only looking about mid table at best. So losing Bruno and Ugarte, along with the performance of their replacements, killed us.
He picked the wrong team against Newcastle, with Casemiro and Eriksen, and compounded it with Zirkzee. I can’t see him doing that again. Really hoping that’s an aberration and part of Amorim learning about the physicality of the league, but it was very worrying - we don’t really have the luxury of someone learning on the job at the moment
I am aware. I'm just detailing it for posterity. They like to put them up only to make their downfall more dramatic.
I did though, it was more up and down with 10Hag. I don‘t want Amorim sacked, but he will be unless results improve.
I've decided to shop elsewhere. I've seen them and they're rubbish.
There wasn't anyone else to pick to up in the middle. Ugarte and Bruno were out, we had Eriksen, Casemiro & out of confidence overplayed Mainoo. Or academy kids.
Martinez would’ve been dropped by now if Shaw was fit. But he’s never fit these days unfortunately.
I’m going to keep banging on this drum but I really want to see Amad at LWB and Dalot/Maz at RWB.
Amad was good at RWB but I’d rather have two wingbacks stretching play and crossing on the run. Far too often you get forced back because you are on your weak foot.
Also, by having natural width it would open up space through the middle. It’s been a problem for a long time where every player wants to cut inside. ETH had us inverting full backs despite having inverted wingers. We really need to stretch play more.
Amad was good at RWB but I’d rather have two wingbacks stretching play and crossing on the run. Far too often you get forced back because you are on your weak foot.
Also, by having natural width it would open up space through the middle. It’s been a problem for a long time where every player wants to cut inside. ETH had us inverting full backs despite having inverted wingers. We really need to stretch play more.
Might be replacing Claudio Ranieri as the new tinker man.
I agree with what you say about should be able to do certain things but the reality is the players are expected to do things - sometimes significantly - differently to what they are used to, as the general positions and responsibilities such as CBs having to play wide, FBs playing as inverted wingers/WBs. To operate at an elite level with no real training on it, when being already not good enough is pretty daft.
But agreed general effort, demeanour and basics like running and passing is poor and inexcusable
We should hire a manager who can play these guys in a 4231. Erik ten Hag for example, is available
The similarities between Amorim and our greatest manager, arguably the greatest ever, are uncanny. Ferguson arrived in November 86, halfway through a season, he came from an inferior league, he was charismatic and a great communicator, made controversial sweeping changes, stubborn, a risk taker, a promoter and champion of youth. Ferguson was given time despite calls for his head, the decision to trust him led to the most successful period in our history. If we'd listened to the naysayers, we, in all probability, would be still waiting for our first EPL title and a treble would be a ridiculous fantasy. I can't believe, despite our current predicament, that people are seriously entertaining sacking this guy, i think his plan is pretty clear and it is working up to a point, not remotely similar to Ten Hag. We're a handful of signings away from being a decent side again, we need to back this guy to the hilt.
I want to see this too but Dalot specifically at RWB. Maz really annoys me at wingback because he goes central too often, doesn’t make runs often to overlap or underlap, and doesn’t have the athleticism to cover back defensively.
Meanwhile Dalot does a lot of the above relatively well, but has no trust in his left foot so wastes the good work by checking back to his right foot, passing backwards or taking a useless shot.
Amad at RWB and Dalot at LWB fixes one of these two things. We could potentially fix both if we swap them around. Dalot is not popular now on here but he is actually good at creating and finding space, albeit with no end product. Having him on the right would at least mean that he doesn’t slow down the attack and actually puts in crosses/cutbacks. The risk being that Amad doesn’t quickly adapt to LWB and we’ve potentially fecked up one of the players playing well in a well defined position in this formation.
Not surprised but a little disappointed by the amount of criticism Amorim is receiving both by fans and pundits.
He got the selection wrong vs Newcastle but it wasn’t as if he was exactly spoiled for choice.
Next few games, he needs to try and find the right combination and stick to it as much as possible:
1) Move Amad to RWB - he gives us an attacking threat down the right that we badly need
2) Start Maz at RCB, he has been quite bad the last few games but overall, has shown potential in the position to stick with it. The best balanced back 3 would be Maz, De Ligt, and Martinez but Martinez has been woeful and I would start Maz, De Ligt and Maguire for the next few games
3) Play Dalot against tough teams and Malacia/ Antony in the easer games at LWB
4) Play Ugarte & Casemiro in the midfield together - Will add some steel to the midfield and seemed to do job under Ruud
5) Have Bruno, Hojlund, and Garnacho as front 3
He needs to prioritise the league games, reduce the amount of rotation and build some momentum by stringing consecutive results and performances.
He got the selection wrong vs Newcastle but it wasn’t as if he was exactly spoiled for choice.
Next few games, he needs to try and find the right combination and stick to it as much as possible:
1) Move Amad to RWB - he gives us an attacking threat down the right that we badly need
2) Start Maz at RCB, he has been quite bad the last few games but overall, has shown potential in the position to stick with it. The best balanced back 3 would be Maz, De Ligt, and Martinez but Martinez has been woeful and I would start Maz, De Ligt and Maguire for the next few games
3) Play Dalot against tough teams and Malacia/ Antony in the easer games at LWB
4) Play Ugarte & Casemiro in the midfield together - Will add some steel to the midfield and seemed to do job under Ruud
5) Have Bruno, Hojlund, and Garnacho as front 3
He needs to prioritise the league games, reduce the amount of rotation and build some momentum by stringing consecutive results and performances.
Leave Plant alone!!
He's an inanimate plant - he doesn't have any feelings.
There is something fundamentally wrong in the whole picture.
Elanga has been thriving since he left United and he scored and assisted more than 200 million worth of attackers we signed did....COMBINED.
McTominay is a star for Napoli.
Even Van de fecking Beeck has his career back on track.
Dare I mention the forbidden one... Greenwood. Who is slowly and predictably becoming a world class striker.
Ragnick said everything as it is. He was blamed and pointed fingers at for not being a good coach. But he's done brilliantly for Austria.
Amorim is also saying things as they are. At this point adjusting his philosophy is pointless. If we manage to get results with "hit em on the counter", ETH first season style, we will NOT offload players in the summer and we won't be buying players for actual Amorim style. You can bet on Ratcliffe's fraud ass that we won't. He'll cut off the cleaning lady's salary before actually invest, unless it's drastically urgent.
Elanga has been thriving since he left United and he scored and assisted more than 200 million worth of attackers we signed did....COMBINED.
McTominay is a star for Napoli.
Even Van de fecking Beeck has his career back on track.
Dare I mention the forbidden one... Greenwood. Who is slowly and predictably becoming a world class striker.
Ragnick said everything as it is. He was blamed and pointed fingers at for not being a good coach. But he's done brilliantly for Austria.
Amorim is also saying things as they are. At this point adjusting his philosophy is pointless. If we manage to get results with "hit em on the counter", ETH first season style, we will NOT offload players in the summer and we won't be buying players for actual Amorim style. You can bet on Ratcliffe's fraud ass that we won't. He'll cut off the cleaning lady's salary before actually invest, unless it's drastically urgent.
Someone's attacking Plant? Let me at him
With the amount of players out in the international break it wouldn't have made a difference.
Ten Hag was burning up the Eredivisie, his style would probably work great in the Prem.
How many weeks does Amorim feasibly need before we see a definitive style in play? I don't mean results from it - just the actual style of play being more recognisable?
We're still looking very ETH-like when we get to the opponents box.
We're still looking very ETH-like when we get to the opponents box.
He isn't a bad manager but I think he's a poor fit for us. Just like Emery isn't a bad manager but he was a poor fit at Arsenal.
There was one match recently where we attacked through the middle once we neared their box. It was breathtaking to behold! Instead of everyone stopping, forming a loose D around their box and passing it sideways amongst ourselves for a few minutes before inevitably hoofing it 50 yards back to Onana, we had Player A pass the ball to Player B and then run into space to receive the ball back from Player B. It was revolutionary. I think we still lost but it was the first green shoots after a long winter.
No way, you mean we didn't play stationary zombie football for a change? God I've love to see us actually play some smart football for once.
This is my first time really critiquing Amorim, I haven't posted much in this thread at all and wanted to see some games first. One thing I will say is there were some positive signs the first couple of games but that's quickly gone to shite.
I get people saying he needs time, I get that he wants to implement a system here but starting Casemiro/Eriksen/Zirkzee/Amad in midfield against Newcastle is just unforgivable. What does he expect ? I'm tired of new managers coming into this club and underrating the pace of the league and the need for legs in midfield. I get he wants to implement a style of play but I thought he understood it when he said I need to win time. Well if he carries on like this he won't have a lot of it.
I get people saying he needs time, I get that he wants to implement a system here but starting Casemiro/Eriksen/Zirkzee/Amad in midfield against Newcastle is just unforgivable. What does he expect ? I'm tired of new managers coming into this club and underrating the pace of the league and the need for legs in midfield. I get he wants to implement a style of play but I thought he understood it when he said I need to win time. Well if he carries on like this he won't have a lot of it.