Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

I actually think now in the hindsight we have got this appointment at the wrong time. We should have kept Ruud as the interim or got any other manager who is experienced who would get the best of the players for the reminder of the season.

Then started fresh next season with him and buy the full backs and CAMs he need for the system to work alongside the striker. He could get pre-season and drilled the team the way he wanted, and for players as well the whole process would have been smoother. Lets break down his system and the problems we are facing.

1) In the 3-4-3 system the wingbacks are supposed to be like wingers going forward and full backs when defending, whereas our wingbacks look like full backs when attacking and look like a deer in the headlights, one on one against opposition full backs and their first instinct is to always play it back instead of taking them on, making our formation 5-2-3 incredible boring with no cutting edge (takes me back to those LVG days).

2) The next puzzle in this system is the left and right CAMs. They are supposed to be in half spaces closer to striker, So in theory we should have a three man attack with two center backs being occupied by the central striker and two full backs being kept busy by wingbacks and then these two players create havoc between the lines and make it difficult for opposition full backs and central midfielders to hold their positions. What we have right now is Amad is occupying RW position (to compensate for Maz's lack of suitability), and left CAM is also starting wide but whether its Bruno or Eriksen whoever is playing does not have the dribbling, agility to play that role effectively, leaving us keeping hold of the ball without hurting opposition.

3) Another issue due to these CAMs not closer to ST but rather wide, it leaves the ST very isolated as he does not have anybody to combine, which looks very apparent specially as our striker does not have the ability to hold the ball well, turn dribble and take the shots away. Mostly he is outmuscled and outfought and then to add insult to injury, he does not have anybody combining and linking up with him close by.

4) One of the benefit of playing with three center backs is one or sometimes can vacate their position and and follow or pressurize CAM of other teams high up (mostly in the middle), we saw Martinez doing this against De Bruyne or Yoro against Maddison. It results in outnumbering 2 CMs of other team with our one CB and two midfielders (making it three for us).

However, we have seen us abandon this tactic in few games or players not following this, specially against Newcastle since they played 3 in the middle, we were outnumbered and our CBs did not support the midfield resulting us not only being outnumbered but also physically we were no match. We practically ended up with 5 defenders against 3 attackers, which makes is incredibly easy for them to outclass us in different areas of the pitch because of numerical superiority.

So keeping all these issues in mind, the crux is we don't have suitable players for this formation even if we intend to get all of these players for this manager then what will happen to Maz or Dalot or Garnacho. Because they are not bad players just not fit for the system. Then the new wingbacks and Cams they will be tailor made for this formation only what happens if Amorim does not work out, then we will go and buy full backs again and sell these wing backs?

The best option is to slightly amend the formation go with different variant of 4. Or if we intend to go for 3 at the back at least have Amad or Garnacho (both preferably) as wingbacks. At least we will be entertaining going forward and score some goals, we are leaking goals anyway, but knowing Amorim and his stubbornness i think we are in for a tough ride unless he becomes flexible.
 
Keep reverting to what they know, until Rashford spits his dummy again and can't be arsed.

Nah burn it down.

I firmly believe that now the main Christmas period is out of the way and games are calming down he will be getting through to them on the training pitch.

I don't see how getting smashed playing the new system helps anyone here. Just shore up the best we can, try and keep them out and experiment when it's worth it.
 
I mean. Ball knowledge in this post is just atrocious. The Caf is turning into TalkSport.

Ugate suspended.

The Prem has been won with a 343. Why wouldnt it work in England? Sporting under Amorim has beaten Spurs, Arsenal and City in the Champions/Europa League with a 343.

He won't be sacked. The club cant and wont bring in another manager. That would be the 10mil release clause we paid down the drain, plus we would be paying both Amorim and ETH off, as well as paying a third managers salary, who too many need paying out of his current contract. If you haven't noticed, we are right up against the PSR limit.
Why is everyone saying ‘ball knowledge’ these days? When did that start?
 
Does anyone have a link to the analysis that Carager did for the positioning of our wingbacks? Dalot in particular.

Found a tiktok video but it’s a short clip.

The video pretty much shows why we have been so poor going forward due to the positioning of our wingbacks.

Here is the TikTok clip :
Analysis
 
Last edited:
Are the player crap? Yes.
Are we likely to have an overhaul anytime soon? No.
Does that mean the manager has to work with what he’s got? Yes.
Does that look likely based on what we’ve seen?No.

Something has to give here. I’ve seen a lot of people saying they feel sorry for him, you need to tread very carefully with this train of thought because this is absolving the manager of responsibility for performances and results. The reality is, no matter how shit the squad is the buck always stops with the manager.
 
may sound stupid but we should play Malacia v Salah. At Feyenoord he was the best man to man marker and he showed it again (if I recall correctly) againsy Saka this season
It is stupid , he has been horrendous this season and have been subbed offf twice before half time
 
Are the player crap? Yes.
Are we likely to have an overhaul anytime soon? No.
Does that mean the manager has to work with what he’s got? Yes.
Does that look likely based on what we’ve seen?No.

Something has to give here. I’ve seen a lot of people saying they feel sorry for him, you need to tread very carefully with this train of thought because this is absolving the manager of responsibility for performances and results. The reality is, no matter how shit the squad is the buck always stops with the manager.
I would rather reset everything than have him scrape some shitty wins with a 4-2-3-1 and nothing change fundamentally. This club has been letting us down so much for so long that I am past looking at the manager anymore.

Put simply, I trust him a lot more than I trust these players.
 
Does anyone have a link to the analysis that Carager did for the positioning of our wingbacks? Dalot in particular.

Found a tiktok video but it’s a short clip.

The video pretty much shows why we have been so poor going forward due to the positioning of our wingbacks.

Here is the TikTok clip :
Analysis
Why would you want to read the analysis of a bloke that cannot stand Utd?
If the bloke was any good he would be a coach at a good club instead of being one of a collection of puppets employed by Sky Sports.
 
Are the player crap? Yes.
Are we likely to have an overhaul anytime soon? No.
Does that mean the manager has to work with what he’s got? Yes.
Does that look likely based on what we’ve seen?No.

Something has to give here. I’ve seen a lot of people saying they feel sorry for him, you need to tread very carefully with this train of thought because this is absolving the manager of responsibility for performances and results. The reality is, no matter how shit the squad is the buck always stops with the manager.
Why is it that when a manager is trying to change things for the better, he gets shit on especially when he hasnt even been with the club for 2 months yet when players have been here for years and are utter shite get a pass with every single manager?
 
Why would you want to read the analysis of a bloke that cannot stand Utd?
If the bloke was any good he would be a coach at a good club instead of being one of a collection of puppets employed by Sky Sports.
What the hell? He is actually a very good analyst and is spot on when it comes to things about United. Also being a analyst and coach arent two similar things.
 
Why is it that when a manager is trying to change things for the better, he gets shit on especially when he hasnt even been with the club for 2 months yet when players have been here for years and are utter shite get a pass with every single manager?
That’s a question for upper management. I’m not trying to shit on him, I want him to succeed as much as anyone but we can say whatever we want, he’ll ultimately be judged by his superiors at the club.
 
Carragher is a little bait inducing but he's a fecking fantastic pundit.
I say it very begrudgingly but he's honestly one of my favourite sport pundits.
 
Carragher is a little bait inducing but he's a fecking fantastic pundit.
I say it very begrudgingly but he's honestly one of my favourite sport pundits.
Agreed! If you look that tik tok video again he was absolutely right on the positioning of the wingbacks.
 
Amorim keeps mentioning that he needs more training sessions with the players, the team doesn't play Liverpool until Sunday now, does that mean he can fit in some good training sessions from now until then?
 
Agreed! If you look that tik tok video again he was absolutely right on the positioning of the wingbacks.
I saw that actual clip on MNF before the game about our WB positioning, and how they're not used to attacking - they sit too deep naturally when they should be providing width and opportunities for diagonal balls.
 
Amorim keeps mentioning that he needs more training sessions with the players, the team doesn't play Liverpool until Sunday now, does that mean he can fit in some good training sessions from now until then?
Well sure we prolly have sessions Wednesday, Thursday and Friday but again that is not enough. But its better than what he has had over the past month.
 
Once in 30 odd seasons. Hardly a compelling argument for three at the back.

So? The point is it can work. It’s also becoming more and more popular. Loads of teams use the formation now. Including the team with the longest unbeaten run in Europe over the last several years, Leverkusen. Tactics aren’t set in stone. They change. Wasn’t all that long ago it was seen as weird to not play 442.

At the end of the day it’s 11 vs 11. The idea that a specific formation can’t possibly work because of the geographical location of the league is just stupid.
 
They want a manager who has never played a 4-4-3 to play that system. Somehow they have convinced themselves that if we played 4 at the back and with wingers we wont be in this position. Its as if they have short term memory loss and dont remember how shite we were the past 2 years under Ten Hag and the 10 years before that under different managers who all played 4 at the back. This past decade we were craving for managers to try something different and as one comes along, who btw knows what the feck he is doing, and tries something different, they go after him with a pitchfork asking him to revert back for MAYBE short term wins. Its still a maybe. There is no guarantee going to a back 4 will yield different results.

Exactly this.
I have asked it many a time on this thread and no one has been able to point to how this formation or system is causing us to leak goals. The majority are down to individual mistakes. Yesterday, two crosses when we have 5 in the back line. Would removing a man from the back line help that?

The 433 v 3421 talk is so lazy too. Yes, some players may not currently be ideally suited to a 3421, but if Slot, Arteta, Klopp or Pep came in, would many of them be suited to their versions of a 433 ? Likely not, because the squad is just really poor, unfit and lacking confidence. Only time on the training ground, better players signed and a pre season will help this.

Said it before, but i think this team went without playing much of a system for the past few years. Ten Hag gave up and reverted to ad hoc football because of the pressure. Not fans want Amorim to drop his principles. That is why there was never any patterns of play under ETH. Their brains need to be re-wired to start taking instruction again and it will take time.
 
Does anyone have a link to the analysis that Carager did for the positioning of our wingbacks? Dalot in particular.

Found a tiktok video but it’s a short clip.

The video pretty much shows why we have been so poor going forward due to the positioning of our wingbacks.

Here is the TikTok clip :
Analysis

It is here....


He is making the point that Dalot is too deep. And that may be true at times.

But i would suggest you also watch this video that points the the fact he is often too high up the field when in build up, therefore not allowing the space for the forward to peel off into....



And i think everyone should watch this to better understand how Sporting played under Amorim....

 
So? The point is it can work. It’s also becoming more and more popular. Loads of teams use the formation now. Including the team with the longest unbeaten run in Europe over the last several years, Leverkusen. Tactics aren’t set in stone. They change. Wasn’t all that long ago it was seen as weird to not play 442.

At the end of the day it’s 11 vs 11. The idea that a specific formation can’t possibly work because of the geographical location of the league is just stupid.
I admire your patience in the face of these shifting questions.

Name one example!

Now name twenty more!
 
What was wrong with a Ugarte, Mainoo, Eriksen midfield yesterday? He is starting to fustrate me with this 3-4-3 formation. Might work in Portugal, won't work in England. He is in to get the best out of the current players that are at united and it's simply not working. He will be gone by end of February is my prediction.
How did you watch the game and not know Ugarte was suspended? That actually tells me you didnt watch the game cause even commentators mentioned it quite a few times that him and Fernandes werent available. You are ignorant yet you blame Amorim for not playing a player who was suspended?
 
So? The point is it can work. It’s also becoming more and more popular. Loads of teams use the formation now. Including the team with the longest unbeaten run in Europe over the last several years, Leverkusen. Tactics aren’t set in stone. They change. Wasn’t all that long ago it was seen as weird to not play 442.

At the end of the day it’s 11 vs 11. The idea that a specific formation can’t possibly work because of the geographical location of the league is just stupid.

Well said.

There are some football luddites in here here.

Have they not noticed that teams like Arsenal or City may hand their team sheets in with their players in a 433, but their full back, or even a center back like Stones for City, will spend most of the game up with the midfield when in possession?

Modern football is about creating overloads and mismatches in areas of the field. If executed properly, Amorims system will do this.