Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

RedRocket9908 said:
Do people at least agree that Ruben should be doing better with what he has got, he has lost 5 of his 8 league games in charge so far (we had only lost 4 of the previous 11) with 2 wins and 1 draw which really isnt good enough, Klopp who took over Liverpool in mid-season (and arguably inherited a worse squad) got 3 wins, 3 draws, and 2 defeats from his first 8 league games.
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Depends because we really need more matches. Right now he's like the opposite of ETH second season where we were generally quite poor statistically but would pick up wins and limp long, with Amorim we've done pretty well if you look at the stats but the results have been diabolically bad.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Do people at least agree that Ruben should be doing better with what he has got, he has lost 5 of his 8 league games in charge so far (we had only lost 4 of the previous 11) with 2 wins and 1 draw which really isnt good enough, Klopp who took over Liverpool in mid-season (and arguably inherited a worse squad) got 3 wins, 3 draws, and 2 defeats from his first 8 league games.
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No, not really...because he's coming in amidst the busiest schedule of fixtures possibly anywhere across the globe and being asked to pick a group of players off the floor and get them playing an entirely new system with no time on the training pitch to coach them.
 
Lots of talk about the fans here but will the ownership hold their nerve? Assuming losses to Liverpool and Arsenal that game vs Southampton feels like it's taking on major significance. Not just the table but for the psyche of the club.

Do you think in the interview if they asked what's your six month plan and Amorim answered he'll lose every single game but be ripping up the championship next season playing 343 they would have been on board with that?

At some point, even this season results will start to matter. I would argue they already do with how dire they make the financial situation sound. There is a limit to "the seasons a right off" and "free shot". The team has to get with the program, hopefully they can figure it out soon.
 
pocco said:
I think you’re right, it has to be Ugarte, Mainoo, Bruno, Mount and Hojlund through the middle. I’d like to see the 3 at the back who were doing well in Mazraoui, De Ligt and Martinez. Dalot and Amad back at WB. Build from there again. Then try to introduce Yoro and tweak from there. To me that is probably his best setup that has the closest mix of work rate and quality to what we need.
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Agreed, go back to basics with.

Onana
Mazraoui DeLigt Martinez
Amad Ugarte Mainoo Dalot
Bruno Garnacho
Hojlund​

Once Mount is fit (and stays fit) he probably takes Garnacho’s spot unless he’s become more of a team player by then.

I would be tempted to put Yoro in though for Martinez, im not sure Martinez can play that wide CB role.
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
Agreed, go back to basics with.

Onana
Mazraoui DeLigt Martinez
Amad Ugarte Mainoo Dalot
Bruno Garnacho
Hojlund​

Once Mount is fit (and stays fit) he probably takes Garnacho’s spot unless he’s become more of a team player by then.

I would be tempted to put Yoro in though for Martinez, im not sure Martinez can play that wide CB role.
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I'd drop Martinez and go with Yoro or Maguire. He has been a huge liability with this system if you ask me
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
Agreed, go back to basics with.

Onana
Mazraoui DeLigt Martinez
Amad Ugarte Mainoo Dalot
Bruno Garnacho
Hojlund​

Once Mount is fit (and stays fit) he probably takes Garnacho’s spot unless he’s become more of a team player by then.

I would be tempted to put Yoro in though for Martinez, im not sure Martinez can play that wide CB role.
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I don't think Mount's even worth discussing at this point. We need to operate on the assumption he's done.
 
Onana

Maz De Ligt Martinez Dalot

Mainoo Ugarte

Amad Bruno Rashford

Hojlund

Please no 3 at the back. These lot will learn nothing about the system being smashed at Anfield, if anything they will trust it less.

Go with what they know and hope for the best.
 
groovyalbert said:
Onana

Maz De Ligt Martinez Dalot

Mainoo Ugarte

Amad Bruno Rashford

Hojlund

Please no 3 at the back. These lot will learn nothing about the system being smashed at Anfield, if anything they will trust it less.

Go with what they know and hope for the best.
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Keep reverting to what they know, until Rashford spits his dummy again and can't be arsed.

Nah burn it down.

I firmly believe that now the main Christmas period is out of the way and games are calming down he will be getting through to them on the training pitch.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
What is something new? Nothing is new in this world.
Amorim has not invented anything new. We agree on that first.

Secondly, why teach the squad *something new" when it has been claimed we need a squad clear out? Why teach them yet in 12 months it's acceptable they won't be here most of them..

What's the benefit to incur losses, while teaching "duds"
When it's acceptable they won't be around...

Example...

Dalot as a wingback.. He's trained to be a wingback. Fine.
We finish 15th because we have poor squad.
Dalot leaves.
We buy another Wingback. Amorim player.

What benefits have we accrued in such a scenario? Because this is what is going to happen to many players.
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1) Amorim is implementing a formation and a system that is new to our current squad. That does not mean no one has ever played a similar system or formation in the history of football before. Trying to conflate those two things seems like a pretty desperate deflection on your part.

2) We are not in a position to replace every player in the squad. Some of them are going to stick around and continue playing under our new manager and under our new manager’s system, and so it makes sense for them to get used to the system he uses. It also makes sense for the new manager to see who can and can’t adapt to that system, so he can figure out where to prioritise in terms of squad building.

You can argue we shouldn’t have changed the manager until we changed all the players, but that ship has sailed - we’ve already replaced the manager, and we have a very limited ability in the current climate to replace the entire squad.

You can also argue that we should have hired a different manager who played a different system, but again, that ship has sailed.

The reality we face is that the club has decided to bring in a manager who has been very clear in stating that he is going to persist with his preferred system come hell or high water. You can question what the point of that is, but that seems to be missing the point.
 
honirelandboy said:
What was wrong with a Ugarte, Mainoo, Eriksen midfield yesterday? He is starting to fustrate me with this 3-4-3 formation. Might work in Portugal, won't work in England. He is in to get the best out of the current players that are at united and it's simply not working. He will be gone by end of February is my prediction.
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Was the long term plan to go to a 343 system or because he was attainable and sought after.
If players can be signed for his 343 be transferrrable to a 433 which the next guy might play then surely it could've been easier to get a 433 manager now to make that more gradual transition smoother. Hard to explain what I mean (beer)
 
honirelandboy said:
What was wrong with a Ugarte, Mainoo, Eriksen midfield yesterday? He is starting to fustrate me with this 3-4-3 formation. Might work in Portugal, won't work in England. He is in to get the best out of the current players that are at united and it's simply not working. He will be gone by end of February is my prediction.
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Conte won a Premier League title with three centre backs so it obviously can work in England.

Ugarte couldn’t play yesterday. Suspended.
 
Can anyone say for certain that it is the "system" that is the problem? Can anyone name a goal we conceded because of the "system" ?

Because the way i see it, players are making mistake after mistake, and that would happen in any system or in any formation.

They were doing the same shit under Ten Hag. Had Dalot been able to score an open goal v West Ham, ETH may have kept his job.

Does Bruno get sent off because of the system?
Does Rashford "want a new challenge" because of the system?
Does Onana begin to make mistakes because of the system?
Can we not defend corners because of the system?
Can Martinez not defend anymore because of the system?
Would Case and Eriksen be able to run like they were in their 20s again in a 433?
Does Mount and Shaw suddenly get fit?
Does Maz hack down a Bournemouth player from behind because of the system?
Can Hojlund suddenly link up play in a 433?

We are making mistake after mistake and have a lot of squad and personal issues. Confidence it low and the manager needs time on the training ground to instill belief - he has not had that time yet with the December schedule, which has been tough because we were up against in form teams.

For me, Ten Hag did not have a system. It was all off the cuff football. We have been crying out for a manager who can come in and implement a way of playing. One comes along and we dont like it because there have been some bumps in the road. Well, of course there is going to be issues because this squad are unfit, have been poorly coached for years and some are suffering PTSD from all the crushing defeats.
 
absolute worst time for a new manager to come in. December schedule dictates he must rotate - minimal time on the training filed to get across his ideas. Its a huge uphill battle.

Factor in its a new system which our current squad doesn't have the personnel to implement properly it's a perfect storm. Results show it. I hope he can turn it around we need to get behind the manager and the team to see us through this season.
 
honirelandboy said:
What was wrong with a Ugarte, Mainoo, Eriksen midfield yesterday? He is starting to fustrate me with this 3-4-3 formation. Might work in Portugal, won't work in England. He is in to get the best out of the current players that are at united and it's simply not working. He will be gone by end of February is my prediction.
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I mean. Ball knowledge in this post is just atrocious. The Caf is turning into TalkSport.

Ugate suspended.

The Prem has been won with a 343. Why wouldnt it work in England? Sporting under Amorim has beaten Spurs, Arsenal and City in the Champions/Europa League with a 343.

He won't be sacked. The club cant and wont bring in another manager. That would be the 10mil release clause we paid down the drain, plus we would be paying both Amorim and ETH off, as well as paying a third managers salary, who too many need paying out of his current contract. If you haven't noticed, we are right up against the PSR limit.
 
gaffs said:
Can anyone say for certain that it is the "system" that is the problem? Can anyone name a goal we conceded because of the "system" ?

Because the way i see it, players are making mistake after mistake, and that would happen in any system or in any formation.

They were doing the same shit under Ten Hag. Had Dalot been able to score an open goal v West Ham, ETH may have kept his job.

Does Bruno get sent off because of the system?
Does Rashford "want a new challenge" because of the system?
Does Onana begin to make mistakes because of the system?
Can we not defend corners because of the system?
Can Martinez not defend anymore because of the system?
Would Case and Eriksen be able to run like they were in their 20s again in a 433?
Does Mount and Shaw suddenly get fit?
Does Maz hack down a Bournemouth player from behind because of the system?
Can Hojlund suddenly link up play in a 433?

We are making mistake after mistake and have a lot of squad and personal issues. Confidence it low and the manager needs time on the training ground to instill belief - he has not had that time yet with the December schedule, which has been tough because we were up against in form teams.

For me, Ten Hag did not have a system. It was all off the cuff football. We have been crying out for a manager who can come in and implement a way of playing. One comes along and we dont like it because there have been some bumps in the road. Well, of course there is going to be issues because this squad are unfit, have been poorly coached for years and some are suffering PTSD from all the crushing defeats.
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I agreed with most points but Amorim also plays a part. Selecting Eriksen and Casemiro in midfield is criminal against Newcastle. Having Yoro instead of Martinez could have given the defence more height to defend corners. Amorim needs to figure who he can put on the field for which opponents else we will continue losing.
 
I do kind of wish it was 433 personally, always feel like that’s the optimum system for controlling games and playing the best possible football.
 
r0663664 said:
I agreed with most points but Amorim also plays a part. Selecting Eriksen and Casemiro in midfield is criminal against Newcastle. Having Yoro instead of Martinez could have given the defence more height to defend corners. Amorim needs to figure who he can put on the field for which opponents else we will continue losing.
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I agree re Eriksen and Casemiro, but Mainoo is looking unfit and heavy since coming back from injury and he played the games either side of Christmas and did nothing. Im not sure how comfortable Yoro is on the left. The benefit of Martinez is that he is usually good at bringing the ball back. It is not just Martinez and his lack of height - he want in the position to make a challenge for the first.

EIther way, we were not going to win that game against a bang inform Newcastle with what Amorim had at his disposal.

Not going to be harsh on the manager when we have players that cant even do the basics.
 
gaffs said:
So you scrap the more defensive minded wing backs against the best team in the world right now, with the best forward in Salah ? And your answer is Antony. Sounds like a plan.
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Weve scored goals with Antony playing at wingback, weve scored 0 when we have had Mazroaui or Dalot at wingback
 
Didn't the exact same thing happen at, Sporting? Took over a shit show. Results didn't improve. Got a few transfer windows, the results improved, and the rest is history?
 
gaffs said:
Explain why it is the optimum system for controlling games?

We have had 433 for years. How many games did we control?
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They want a manager who has never played a 4-4-3 to play that system. Somehow they have convinced themselves that if we played 4 at the back and with wingers we wont be in this position. Its as if they have short term memory loss and dont remember how shite we were the past 2 years under Ten Hag and the 10 years before that under different managers who all played 4 at the back. This past decade we were craving for managers to try something different and as one comes along, who btw knows what the feck he is doing, and tries something different, they go after him with a pitchfork asking him to revert back for MAYBE short term wins. Its still a maybe. There is no guarantee going to a back 4 will yield different results.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Weve scored goals with Antony playing at wingback, weve scored 0 when we have had Mazroaui or Dalot at wingback
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We can all trot out stats from Sky Sports.

What PL goals have we scored while Antony was wing back? I recall 2 v City when Antony came on for about 10 mins. Were either of Amad's goals down to anything that Antony contributed?

The fact is, Amorim knows that system better than he knows what day of the week it is. If he thinks Dallot is a better option there than Antony, i tend to trust him.

I suspect that if two reasons....

He wants a more defensive minder player there currently to cover for other deficiencies in the team.

And he is concerned that putting a winger as wing back would mean that the winger would push too far forward, thus being easy to mark by the full back.

If you know about the Sporting system, the wingback us used to create mismatches in other areas of the field.
He should be level with the midfieled when starting attacks, not too far forward as that would mean he is easy to pick up by the full back. If the wing back is playing level with the midfield two, then the oposition has a decision to make - do they use a midfielder to mark him or do they push the full back up, thus leaving space for the CB to hit balls over the top into the space vacated. Sporting would do this all the time.

Having a fullback in these positions at the moment, although on the face of it not working, may be in Amorims mind a better option.
 
hellhunter said:
He absolutely hasn't, but it's still not wrong to be anxious about a rather immobile defender vs Salah. Debatable if Martinez will fare any better though
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Name one player you arent anxious about when you are going up against the best football team in the country when youre team is at prolly one of the lowest points in history? Saying youre anxious about Maguire this weekend is like your entire house being on fire and saying youre worried your TV is going to burn down.
 
may sound stupid but we should play Malacia v Salah. At Feyenoord he was the best man to man marker and he showed it again (if I recall correctly) againsy Saka this season
 
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