I also believe a striker is paramount, I am also of the opinion that if we had a proper top goal scorer up front we wouldn't be in this position, yes defensively we are awful also, but we have created chances and goals will bring calmness and more confidenceI don't know. This season is gone anyway, if results are going to be this disastrous while implementing his style, then maybe it's fine that this is happening right now? As long as we don't get relegated that is.
That said, I think we can mitigate a lot of issues by getting him a proper striker ASAP. A lot of these growing pains would not be as big of a deal if we had a goal threat that could create some movement up front and keep opposition defenders busy. With that I think we do enough "good" in every match to score a goal or two - which would go a long way in making this transition feel less like a crisis.
We won’t get relegated just because there are three other horrendous teams in the league.Maybe. But at the cost of a relegation battle? I’m actually worried that we’re going to be drawn into one. We will lose against Liverpool… maybe beat Southampton but then there’s teams like Fulham and Brighton who can easily do us over.
Relegation?
Other teams with new managers comfortably beat us, obviously it’s because of a new manager. They got the bounce. We play terribly, worse than before, obviously it’s because of a new manager. He needs time.A few days ago I was saying "He's been here less than a month, what can you expect ? It's not going to happen overnight. Be patient."
However yesterday when I sat down to watch my initial thought was How on earth has he picked Casemiro and Erickson." 70,000 at Old Trafford, millions around the world and I knew that was not going to work.
Then the commentator tells us that the team hasn't scored playing the wingback pairing of Dalot and Mazraoui; so that seems like an odd decision.
He has to start helping himself and not making selections that any United supporter in the world can see are incorrect. Don't tell me that - You don't see them in training, you don't know their fitness or their attitude etc... Some decisions are obvious as shown by us being much better but still overall terrible when Mainoo came on.
I think an early sack for Amorim would devastate any hope or belief I have in this club long term. It won’t happen, I’m certain of that, but if it did, it would say everything wrong with how we operate.
Usually when teams change managers don't get a major overhaul of the whole squad to build it to fit their football system & formation. We are doing this under Amorim. It's a unique and risky way.Other teams with new managers comfortably beat us, obviously it’s because of a new manager. They got the bounce. We play terribly, worse than before, obviously it’s because of a new manager. He needs time.
I agree that he needs time, but when he makes utterly ridiculous decisions, that he then has to correct when we are 0-2 down and have played the worse 30 minutes of football I can remember watching United play, he doesn't buy himself any credit. He makes himself look a little incompetent.Other teams with new managers comfortably beat us, obviously it’s because of a new manager. They got the bounce. We play terribly, worse than before, obviously it’s because of a new manager. He needs time.
I’m with you on this. How do we benefit playing the rest of the season , a system that doesn’t suit the squad ? How is this good long term if we end up in a relegation battle and out of all cups? How does that help long term ?
If I thought by maybe March we’d be getting wins and looking like a top half team (this squad is a top half squad) , I’d be ok with that. But I don’t see the benefit of just entirely giving up this season to force square pegs in round holes.
I think Amorim has potential to be a top coach but that doesn’t mean sticking to a system is the right call. i feel like some are convincing themselves that this squad is as bad as it’s looking and that committing to a failing system is like Amorim being a victim of circumstances.
Coaches have to adapt and get the most out of what they have, Amorim isn’t getting the most out of this team. Other clubs get a manager bounce, we’ve had the exact opposite.
People can talk about him speaking well publicly, but that means nothing. Manager interviews are soundbites , I don’t know why fans get so animated about what they say or how they sound.
It really is simple. The team is going to have to start picking up points soon. As I’ve said, I think if we don’t beat Southampton there is gonna be serious panic. The question may end up becoming how bad can things get before either the manager gets more pragmatic or his position is under threat.
This is ridiculous state for things to be looking this bleak. Even under ETH relegation was not a realistic prospect. The complaint was always he could grind out a few wins, well im not sure we can grind out too many wins on this form.
I just don’t accept the squad is this bad or that we can’t have some sort of pragmatism from the coach, especially if he’s not getting enough time with the squad to work on his tactics. If injuries are a problem , adapt. If confidence is an issue , adapt. if you don’t have the layers you want for what you want to do, adapt. A manager sticking to their guns when a teams in a tailspin doesn’t often end too well.
5 or 6 wins from 17 matches avoids relegation, am sure we can manage that, we are on a terrible trajectory but we need to win some matches, dirty if needs be!Here me out. I think people are going about this relegation thing like it's as simple as bouncing back in a year.
I think it's just as likely we do a Sunderland and go down again. The Championship is the hardest league in the world, all our finances will get iffy and will have to get rid of players.
You have to agree though there is something poetically beautiful that we all assumed City would get relegated through the charges and yet we are looking at relegation ourselves and City will probably get off. Not the Manchester club we imagined could be in the Championship!!
Ugarte was suspended.What was wrong with a Ugarte, Mainoo, Eriksen midfield yesterday? He is starting to fustrate me with this 3-4-3 formation. Might work in Portugal, won't work in England. He is in to get the best out of the current players that are at united and it's simply not working. He will be gone by end of February is my prediction.
I don’t think he expected to be out of the game in 20 mins. Looks a bit shocked by the quality in the PL all the way down the table.I agree that he needs time, but when he makes utterly ridiculous decisions, that he then has to correct when we are 0-2 down and have played the worse 30 minutes of football I can remember watching United play, he doesn't buy himself any credit. He makes himself look a little incompetent.
About clear outBecause we never do those kinds of clear outs. The vast majority of players are staying to at least 2026, perhaps beyond. Bruno, Mount, Mazaroui, De Ligt, Ugarte, Mainoo, Maguire (he will get renewed), Martinez, Yoro, Hojlund, Amad, Dalot, Onana, Casemiro (probably), Antony and Shaw are all as good as certain to stay beyond the summer unless someone comes in with a significant bid.
Rashford might leave if he is willing to go to Saudi, but if he isn't I kind of doubt he has any suitors willing to match his wages.
Funnily enough, I was taking a close look at the bottom of the table.We won’t get relegated just because there are three other horrendous teams in the league.
He saw the end of the Wolves game with Casemiro and Eriksen (where Mainoo was poor) and thought they could offer some control on the ball, they didn’t and the team were overwhelmed and reverted to bad habits in not committing to the press. Personnel decisions are a clear area of improvement for Amorim but at the same time our personnel are massively inconsistent from game to game it’s tough to nail it down and easy to pick it apart in hindsight.I agree that he needs time, but when he makes utterly ridiculous decisions, that he then has to correct when we are 0-2 down and have played the worse 30 minutes of football I can remember watching United play, he doesn't buy himself any credit. He makes himself look a little incompetent.
Dreading the answer to that question next week.About clear out
I hold on to the belief
in professional football. Elite football. If you're not Messi or CR7 or R9 or Dinho then the quality of all other footballers is in the same range. The range of talent and quality is not that big in all other players.
This is reinforced by the notion, last time you saw a player dribble past 6 players and score? Messi Probably.
All goals scored is either header, cut back, cross, 18 yard shot nothing extraordinary.
So as talent may differ in some small way, HOW TO MANAGE the team knowing it's strength weakness is THE MOST important thing.
This is also reinforced by us. We have a very expensive squad, talented players but Ipswich will draw against us. Coventry will take us to the wire.
Madrid had a Galacticos team but won nothing. Not that, the team had no talent. It's how you use the team matters most.
In as much as we have a "poor squad" we're very very held back by poor and bad player management.
Ferguson used to win trophies and big game with Oshea, Fletcher, Silvestre,
Klopp was doing it with Milner, Henderson, Firmino. Bring them now to United, supporters will strike for 2 months daily.
Watch it through your fingers, it won't be pretty.Dreading the answer to that question next week.
He needs to find a way to coach out our slow starts, they're killing us. We take ages to get into a good rhythm and it costs us all the time.He's having a rough time of it at the moment but I really hope he sticks to his principles unlike previous managers who abandoned any sort of progress at the first signs of trouble despite having the money to spend on the players they actually wanted.
That first 30 minutes yesterday was horrific, you cannot dress it up any other way, but he made a change and it helped, something he was honest about afterwards. No doubt he's probably shocked at the mess he's inherited and with little money available unless we can drum up some sales, hopefully as the fixture list eases, he can actually spend sometime on the training ground getting his ideas across.
We absolutely have to back him otherwise what was the point of bringing him in, give him a proper chance and ignore the usual media pile on, he's not going to change, he'd rather die on his sword playing his way and I for one admire him for that.
Even if those hits include watching Zirkzee stink out the joint? Because it's not some hypothetical: Amorim did select him and did set the team up with Zirkzee as the linchpin. The tactics are Zirkzee writ large. We are asked to buy in wholesale with no thought for tweaks or adjustments based on either personnel or opponent, which makes no sense.Yes - and we have done the very same thing many times in the post-SAF era, against better teams (last obvious example being the FA Cup final).
The question is whether we should abandon this approach altogether - and just focus on becoming the team others need to beat (by pulling a successful underdog tactic of some kind or another).
Or - should Amorim do what pretty much everyone (except maybe LVG) have done...namely to ditch the actual (preferred) tactic in favour of a more pragmatic one every so often...more and more often...until it becomes the default?
Simplistic - yes, I know.
But if you ask me, we should absolutely suffer whatever hits it takes to make us a well-drilled team.
Well, as long as the guy doing the drilling knows what he's doing (of course). But I must say that I like Amorim - I don't fully trust him, but I like him. Not least because he's said pretty much explicitly that it's going to be painful - that we're going to struggle to a considerable degree before things take a turn for the better.
Your right, it's something we seen with EtH, it seems to be a recurring theme regardless of who is on the pitch it's a big problem.He needs to find a way to coach out our slow starts, they're killing us. We take ages to get into a good rhythm and it costs us all the time.
I'd take that version of Matic over any of our current midfield options. I'd also take De Gea back.Looking at the Ole team against Watford and the only one I wish we had available right now is Shaw, which is kind of ironic.
Maybe start with 11 players?He needs to find a way to coach out our slow starts, they're killing us. We take ages to get into a good rhythm and it costs us all the time.
About clear out
I hold on to the belief
in professional football. Elite football. If you're not Messi or CR7 or R9 or Dinho then the quality of all other footballers is in the same range. The range of talent and quality is not that big in all other players.
This is reinforced by the notion, last time you saw a player dribble past 6 players and score? Messi Probably.
All goals scored is either header, cut back, cross, 18 yard shot nothing extraordinary.
So as talent may differ in some small way, HOW TO MANAGE the team knowing it's strength weakness is THE MOST important thing.
This is also reinforced by us. We have a very expensive squad, talented players but Ipswich will draw against us. Coventry will take us to the wire.
Madrid had a Galacticos team but won nothing. Not that, the team had no talent. It's how you use the team matters most.
In as much as we have a "poor squad" we're very very held back by poor and bad player management.
Ferguson used to win trophies and big game with Oshea, Fletcher, Silvestre,
Klopp was doing it with Milner, Henderson, Firmino. Bring them now to United, supporters will strike for 2 months daily.
Those same supporters have been laying into Mainoo all season. There were not many options at all for the manager yesterday, although you can argue he made a mistake in his lineup. These things can happen, especially when you have several players unavailable for selection.A few days ago I was saying "He's been here less than a month, what can you expect ? It's not going to happen overnight. Be patient."
However yesterday when I sat down to watch my initial thought was How on earth has he picked Casemiro and Erickson." 70,000 at Old Trafford, millions around the world and I knew that was not going to work.
Then the commentator tells us that the team hasn't scored playing the wingback pairing of Dalot and Mazraoui; so that seems like an odd decision.
He has to start helping himself and not making selections that any United supporter in the world can see are incorrect. Don't tell me that - You don't see them in training, you don't know their fitness or their attitude etc... Some decisions are obvious as shown by us being much better but still overall terrible when Mainoo came on.
I’m as frustrated anyone here but:Some on here have a relegation fetish I swear. There’s a weird glee and excitement talking about it.
This! He hasnt done well recently especially Bournemouth and Wolves so performance or fatigue could have come into play with his decision to not start him.Those same supporters have been laying into Mainoo all season. There were not many options at all for the manager yesterday, although you can argue he made a mistake in his lineup. These things can happen, especially when you have several players unavailable for selection.
Those were the options presented by someone else that I was using. I would prefer to do basically any managerial or player shift to avoid relegation.Depends what comes post relegation.
But going back to Ole would be ridiculous. There is a reason he is still unemployed three years later.
Agreed. With that said, I thought he was good yesterday, which is encouraging.This! He hasnt done well recently especially Bournemouth and Wolves so performance or fatigue could have come into play with his decision to not start him.
Yes and given the performance he had last night, he will start alongside Ugarte at Pool. Lets hope its not a drubbing.Agreed. With that said, I thought he was good yesterday, which is encouraging.
The guy I asked that of chose relegation, which was why I asked. I think we are playing with fire. I've seen a lot of big clubs go down and stay down.Nobody in their right mind picks relegation. The alternative simply isn't 433 with Ole, either.
Let me take a look at those beans, please.Do you genuinely think changing the formation will change this? If so, I have some magic beans to sell you.
Some on here have a relegation fetish I swear. There’s a weird glee and excitement talking about it.
I thought it was reported that the scouting issues is because nobody was actually following up on who the scouts recommended because the feckwits in charge of getting players in just pandered to who the manager wanted.I don't want him to get sacked, one possible silver lining in this is the players are instantly showing themselves up for who they really are, usually they put in some token effort leading a new manager to give them a stay of execution
If only we could sack players, there's so many in this current squad I'd get rid of ahead of the manager
Why did we keep ETH in the summer, and not only keep him but heavily backed him in wasting yet more money (Maz maybe an exception to this). Should have sacked him after the FA cup, I said before it we could win 10-0 and I'd still sack him.
Ineos have handled the whole thing extremely poorly, RA needs to adapt, fast, but he's been throw into an absolute shit storm. SJR is looking at reducing the wrong departments, how about looking at the scouting department? Why are we signing mediocrity, lazy, or past it players. Where are these hidden gems. The not exciting but come in and do a great job such as the Jotas and Mcalisters of this world. Also wasting money on permanent sick notes who could actually work well in RA system but oh guess what we won't find that out as they last half a game before being injured again
The scouting department needs a MAJOR review yet we seem to be getting stories about all other departments bar this.
One can only hope for a Chelsea type strategy where they somehow got their surplus players punted out to Saudi. We have wasted so much money it's unbelievable, imagine if we hadn't signed Antony and Zirkzee and Mount....
We simply must get a striker who can actually put the ball in the back of the net in January, even if just a loan that would possibly at least go a semblance of the way to solving the immediate problems
It is disgusting what a team of individuals on way too high wages we have assembled
I can only hope this isn't allowing them anywhere to hide whereas usually with a new manager they buy themselves a stay of execution before reverting to type
4-2-3-1Time to admit we made a mistake and sack him and go back to 4-3-3 with Ole till the end of the season?
I remember people saying relegation would shake theIf we’re within 3 points of relegation by March, Ole as an interim is a very distinct possibility but I doubt it will get that bad.
