Who honestly gives a flying fish about Amorim's "system"? It's echoes of Van Gael's "Pheeloshofee". Who fecking cares? I believe the fanbase cares about two things: being entertained and winning matches. The board/Glazers/shareholders care about winning matches. No United fan anywhere is going to full a warm glow in their chest as we get relegated but are secure in the knowledge that we adhered to Amorim's "system" without blinking, like good little lambs to the slaughter.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Lindelöf, Maguire, Rashford, Bruno and Shaw are still here, but two are perpetually injured now, one has thrown a sulk and one was suspended last night. All were useful contributors 3 years ago. Not so much now.
Ronaldo scored 18 goals in 27 PL games that season, so what the hell are you talking about?
In comparison, Hojlund failed to hold the ball up at least 18 times last night. He is not a patch on 21/22 Ronaldo, even though he was coming to the end of his career. He won our POTY that season. Rasmus - 2 in 14 in the league this year.
I would take Matic and McT in 2021 over Case and Eriksen in 2024 any day. At least you have one able bodied player in McT.
Maz is better than AWB, but does that really make much of a difference? And Onana now v DDG then is debatable. I think Onana has made far more clangers of late.
Is Yoro in our best back four already? Personally, not seem much from him to suggest that just yet. Or are we just throwing him in because the rest are so bad?
Either way, its is up for debate and it really shouldn't be after 650mil of investment under Ten Hag.
Hypothetical: would you prefer to get relegated or go back to 433 with Ole?
Fair enough points and you're entitled to your opinion. We just don't agree on the future. You clearly see no hope and I do. Can't agree that there have been no signs whatsoever. Obviously they are fairly difficult to fixate on when we've been battered repeatedly but I do see patterns of play emerging (with that said, the last two games have been horrible but at the moment I'm putting that down to a) 10 men v Wolves and b) suspensions and yes, poor team selection).
Whilst I also disagree he should definitely be sacked if we don't beat Saints, it's clearly a massive game for us.
We know Ten Hag's agent also happened to be Hojlund's agent. He seemed to also love spending money with his old club.
Some good points made. I agree to alot of what you said. But don't feel the Southampton game is win or bust.
The weird thing is he seems to be protecting himself by saying this is the system and everyone is on trail until the end of the season. It's like the results don't matter and we will be okay next season. He playing a very dangerous game because this can get really ugly and there may not be a way back.
Maybe. But at the cost of a relegation battle? I’m actually worried that we’re going to be drawn into one. We will lose against Liverpool… maybe beat Southampton but then there’s teams like Fulham and Brighton who can easily do us over.
Depends what comes post relegation.
But going back to Ole would be ridiculous. There is a reason he is still unemployed three years later.
Fair enough. I just think it’s time for rashford to go.
Too many stories doing the rounds and it’s not like he’s been trying hard for the last x months.
Plus any fee is profit for us even if it’s only 30-40m.
In that respect if he does go l’ll say “well done on that one”
I'd feckin eat glass to have Donny right now
Donny peaked in that game.
Good points made.
The underlying issue is that INEOS are broke and have no money, so they and the Glazers need to sell up for Amorim to put any plan in action. He won't be getting much funding and he might have to sell in order to buy anyone.
Just a disaster all round, really. United have been needing a rebuild for a long time now. But yeah, for the time being, Amorim needs to do what MA did and consolidate what he has before making any sweeping changes. We're in real danger of becoming involved in a relegation scrap.
On paper, there's no reason why we can't be at least mid-table if we just utilize our players to their full potential.
Mainoo was class when he came on last night, changed the game. However I admit, he has not hit topform yet this season.
If not Mainoo from start, then perhaps Collyer. If he can be on the bench, he can play. Clearly the middle of the pitch we were out-run, out-muscled and out-paced.
Nobody in their right mind picks relegation. The alternative simply isn't 433 with Ole, either.
If a player was not giving enough in training, then reacts to being dropped by going to the press and saying he was "ready for a new challenge" would you want him back in the team?
That is not the kind of mentality needed.
Amorim has tried to take the onus away from Rashford. Protected him by saying the challenge is right here and that Rashford may be getting bad advice. He has given him a route back, but so far, Rashford may not want it, even though he was on the bench last night.
I do think Rashford gets a lot of unfair criticism and he has been one of the better players in a drab 10 years, but his time here is done. He has said that much himself.
Fans want the culture changed, but when they see it happening they get all nervy about it.
Hate to say this so early into his reign but I think he is in big trouble. Will do well to see the season out.
Agreed. It's akin to continuing to play Zirkzee as a striker even when it isn't working because there's some higher power system/philosophy behind his selection.
And this is some kind of magical thinking, adhering to Amorim's mythological system will form a foundation that we build from next season. We aren't building shit if we don't sell a ton of players and raise the funds to buy new players. If we keep getting smashed with these players, their value plummets, which is self-defeating. Worse, there's no guarantee we don't finish 18th and go down. People think it's nailed on that this new system guarantees results further down the line somehow, when we can't score to save our lives and we have forgotten the basics of defending.
Do you genuinely think changing the formation will change this? If so, I have some magic beans to sell you.
Ten Haag really screwed up us..
we bought strikers who cannot score for 110M
Wingers who are not even fit to play wingbacks for 120+M
Midfielders who can't run
Goalkeeper who can't stop a shot for 50M
And players confidence in shreds
Man Utd where on course for this inevitable eye opening slump, you could just tell there was more heart break and a bigger "storm" coming
Ruben does need too reconsider his tactics standoff, He doesn't have to abandon them, but he needs to get some results and fast, he can still build his team around this formation and when the time comes implement it full force. We can continue to practise it, though he needs to have a plan B because not having a good squad and every team knowing how you will play means predictability, which means more stormy days at Old Trafford
Ruben fully deserves his opportunity to tear apart this team and mess created during the ETH era, he has the personality to get things right
Ruben does need too reconsider his tactics standoff, He doesn't have to abandon them, but he needs to get some results and fast, he can still build his team around this formation and when the time comes implement it full force. We can continue to practise it, though he needs to have a plan B because not having a good squad and every team knowing how you will play means predictability, which means more stormy days at Old Trafford
Ruben fully deserves his opportunity to tear apart this team and mess created during the ETH era, he has the personality to get things right
We are halfway through the season and if this continues for another 4 games we might end up with Gareth Southgate after all. The squad is basically set up for 4-3-3 and putting in 5 defenders and constantly losing goals and then not able to score is not going to work.
And the flaws in this approach are visible from space. Just get a chalkboard and a piece of chalk, Amorim. People are saying don't change the system at the same time Amorim selects Zirkzee to start, as if he didn't think Zirkzee was central to his system working. So it's "don't change the system - except change the parts of the system that we don't like".
Look. The club want him to do what he’s doing. He’s sticking to the overall plan.
He clearly didn’t want to come in at this point but the club insisted he did and what we see seeing right now has been accepted as a risk worth taking.
The sooner fans accept this the better. I’m not saying it will work but Amorim wasn’t brought in to be pragmatic and increase the values of the players.
Realism. Its called taking one's head out the sand. The only thing that is pathetic is the state of our team.What a pathetic post after just a month and a half.
He sees the season out because the club can’t afford to sack him. We have no other option than make this work.
All to the tune of 650mil.
There isn't one Ten Hag signing, on current form and from what we have seen do far, that you could confidently build a team around.
If you let half of Ten Hags signings leave on a free tomorrow, there wouldn't be many complaints.
Yet, we wonder why Amorim may be struggling.
I don't know. This season is gone anyway, if results are going to be this disastrous while implementing his style, then maybe it's fine that this is happening right now? As long as we don't get relegated that is.
That said, I think we can mitigate a lot of issues by getting him a proper striker ASAP. A lot of these growing pains would not be as big of a deal if we had a goal threat that could create some movement up front and keep opposition defenders busy. With that I think we do enough "good" in every match to score a goal or two - which would go a long way in making this transition feel less like a crisis.
To make it work, we also need to move the underperforming players on and bring more suitable players in. Works for me. A new manager isn't suddenly going to mean that Eriksen and Casemiro miraculously gain new legs, or Antony gains a right foot, or Mount and Shaw's injury woes disappear. The players are the reason that we are where we are.
amorim - fans
Ineos
Kids
Wives
Dogs
Players
Mosquitos
Glazers
That’s the order of loyalty right now
Ineos
Kids
Wives
Dogs
Players
Mosquitos
Glazers
That’s the order of loyalty right now
Yep, bang on. There's also something that doesn't quite add up when fans are saying force this bunch of players to function in a new system because we're going to get rid of most of them as soon as we can, as if the system exists without players. Like, what good does it do to have Dalot and Mazraoui completely exposed in service of implementing Amorim's system, only for us to sell them in the summer? In either case (playing the new system, adjusting so we don't get humped every week) new players need to be brought in for the system to work. So of our squad, how many of our players are realistically part of Amorim's longterm plans? 3? 2? Mainoo, Garnacho if he pulls his finger out, De Ligt?
At least others have started to see through this narrative that because Amorim has some formation, down the line we will be champions if we buy what he wants.
Another poster asked a very good question...
"If these players ( probably all of them) won't be here next season ( they don't fit Amorim style) why try to teach them something new yet they won't be here in 12 months to continue with the plan"
Seems like wasting time, effort and with zero rewards.
Relegation?
The way I see it, a genuine relegation battle is a worst-case scenario that really isn't overly likely. It doesn't take that many points to get us over that line.
Anyway, sacking him now - or in the coming weeks - just in order to avoid a possible relegation scenario would only make sense if one is convinced he doesn't know what the feck he's doing.
If we’re within 3 points of relegation by March, Ole as an interim is a very distinct possibility but I doubt it will get that bad.
Because we never do those kinds of clear outs. The vast majority of players are staying to at least 2026, perhaps beyond. Bruno, Mount, Mazaroui, De Ligt, Ugarte, Mainoo, Maguire (he will get renewed), Martinez, Yoro, Hojlund, Amad, Dalot, Onana, Casemiro (probably), Antony and Shaw are all as good as certain to stay beyond the summer unless someone comes in with a significant bid.
Rashford might leave if he is willing to go to Saudi, but if he isn't I kind of doubt he has any suitors willing to match his wages.
I think an early sack for Amorim would devastate any hope or belief I have in this club long term. It won’t happen, I’m certain of that, but if it did, it would say everything wrong with how we operate.
Absolutely spot on.
People are hopeful, it's not bad being hopeful but you have to be hopeful to something that's rewarding.
There has been no reward in playing this setup. If we win games then time to believe in the system will be enhanced.
A few days ago I was saying "He's been here less than a month, what can you expect ? It's not going to happen overnight. Be patient."
However yesterday when I sat down to watch my initial thought was How on earth has he picked Casemiro and Erickson." 70,000 at Old Trafford, millions around the world and I knew that was not going to work.
Then the commentator tells us that the team hasn't scored playing the wingback pairing of Dalot and Mazraoui; so that seems like an odd decision.
He has to start helping himself and not making selections that any United supporter in the world can see are incorrect. Don't tell me that - You don't see them in training, you don't know their fitness or their attitude etc... Some decisions are obvious as shown by us being much better but still overall terrible when Mainoo came on.
However yesterday when I sat down to watch my initial thought was How on earth has he picked Casemiro and Erickson." 70,000 at Old Trafford, millions around the world and I knew that was not going to work.
Then the commentator tells us that the team hasn't scored playing the wingback pairing of Dalot and Mazraoui; so that seems like an odd decision.
He has to start helping himself and not making selections that any United supporter in the world can see are incorrect. Don't tell me that - You don't see them in training, you don't know their fitness or their attitude etc... Some decisions are obvious as shown by us being much better but still overall terrible when Mainoo came on.