Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Chesterlestreet]

Lets also recognise that even under SAF there was times when he knew we were outgunned and played accordingly.
I was at the 2008 semi V Barca when Scholes scored in front of me and the K stand. We parked the bus that night.

Indeed - and that is great...war tactics. Do whatever you have to do in order to win a crucial battle.

But Fergie wouldn't have been anywhere near that battle in the first place if he had gone for an underdog approach per default. United - under him - generally tried to put the opponent to the sword more or less directly.

(Which is - of course - what you'd expect from an actual top side.)

 

[gaffs]

Valid point - and worth mentioning.

It's not like we have a ton of goals just waiting to be unleashed. Most of us (regardless of how we feel about Amorim) agree we need strengthening up front - as in, we need to buy or promote or both, the current options clearly aren't going to score enough goals to win the PL (or anywhere near it).

Gary Neville made the point that Ole got sacked post the Watford 4-1 loss.

This was the line up that day...

Clearly an abject performance, but no one can tell me that what Amorim has been left, especially last night, is better than what Ole had.

And that is despite 650mil being spent. It is a absolutely criminal what has happened at this club over the past few years.

 

[Blood Mage]

suprised i cannot to see Amorim Sack Watch or Amorin IN/OUT thread

If we don't beat Southampton there will be.

 

[MiceOnMeth]

This whole narrative that he needs an entire squad is so stupid. As if we dont need two CMs, a left back, a right back and a striker anyway. We need replacements no matter what. Why does it matter if you players for Ruben or who ever the next manager is? Its not like Ruben plays with 5 GKs and 5 strikers. We need to replace Eriksen and Casemeiro. We need a striker. We need a left back to replace Shaw/Malacia. We need a right back to replace Dalot.

Holjund and Zirkzee also need replacing so that's 2 strikers as does Rashford so 1+ left winger and don't we need 2 left backs since both Shaw and Malacia will be likely leaving? That's like 8 players

 

[trevor newnham]

The issue is here is that we are in a relegation battle so it would make sense to get someone in like Dyche or Allardyce to keep us up.

Er, no. Give him time. He has inherited a lot of deadwood . Blimey, I'd rather have Southgate than those two

 

[Doracle]

Agree, this was a mistake to not have a Mainoo as perhaps a 10 that would drop in to help out.
But it is not like Mainoo is moving around the pitch like prime N'golo Kante. He looks to have come back slow and heavy.

It wouldn't have changed the result and they would still have got bossed by a better midfield 3.

The bigger problem is that you have two midfielders in Casemiro and Eriksen, paid a combined half a million quid a week, who are no longer able to compete in the PL. 26 million a year for these two and they offer next to nothing.

Both would struggle to make a Soccer Aid team. Olly Murs, Robbie Williams or Rylan may get in ahead of them!

Couldn’t we just have tweaked the formation for this one? Just the one 10 with three CMs - put Martinez there if he didn’t want to start Mainoo for three in a row. Play Garnacho off Hojlund (or Zirkzee) with Amad back at RWB? It’s the lack of flexibility so far which is a bit worrying about Amorim. I’m all for sticking to the formation and three at the back but there can still be variation within that.

 

[jem]

I have to admit that the Rashford situation seems odd to me too. Amorim had been here for less than a month as he drops Rashford from the squad. How much might Amorim have tried in these weeks before deciding Rashford was unusable? And as you say, Rashford even scored goals under Amorim in the 2 first matches, so it was not all bad.

There is no doubt that Rashford has a problem with his motivation, but I don't see how Amorim can come to the conclusion in just a few weeks that the best thing for the team will be for Rashford not to be in the squad. But as you say, things may have happened that we don't know about.

I love the disingenuous ‘I have to admit…’, as if you don’t have a long-held agenda against Amorim, and won’t find any excuse to have a go at him, even going so far as sticking up for Rashford

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Gary Neville made the point that Ole got sacked post the Watford 4-1 loss.

This was the line up that day...

Clearly an abject performance, but no one can tell me that what Amorim has been left, especially last night, is better than what Ole had.

And that is despite 650mil being spent. It is a absolutely criminal what has happened at this club over the past few years.

Lindelöf, Maguire, Rashford, Bruno and Shaw are still here.

Matic that season was comparable to Casemiro. De Gea was awful by then.

Maz is a much better player than AWB.

So… Sancho and can’t run Ronaldo make it so much better?

Personally I think our best current back 4 is much better:

Shaw, De Ligt, Yoro, Maz

Keeper is better, striker worse. Wingers and CM the same. Bruno the same. Ugarte much bettet than McTom.
We spent a feck tonne to be the same, I thought under Ole we spent a feck tonne to be worse than what Mourinho left.

LVG left miles worse than he inherited.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Also, what guarantees does Amorim has that 343 will deliver success to us.

People are arguing as if Amorim is some Pep who has delivered 4 straight PL title with a treble on the way to us.
Amorim is a 39 year old fella, with small experience. It might work out, it may fail.

Results should determine that not some delusional attachment. Same mistakes people made with ETH.
Let Amorim do his job. Getting results for Manchester United.

There are no guarantees. But Amorim trusts in what he's doing, and you can either decide to trust he knows what he's doing, or you don't.

But if we look at the best teams over the last few years, they have something in common. They all stick to their system and look to be very well coached. None of Pep, Klopp, or Arteta started their tenures by winning every game. Arteta had a very rocky beginning. Klopp lost a fair few in his first season. Even Pep wasn't dominating in his first season. And they all started with better teams than Amorim has inherited. But it still took time to get going, and numerous transfers to bring in suitable players.

We've been complaining for years about how we don't look well coached. The problem persists between managers. We seem unable to break the cycle. Why? I don't have the answers, but I feel like it's worth maybe trying something different to what we've been doing for a decade and persisting with it, no matter how painful it may be initially. Given what Amorim done at Sporting, and the fact he's identified our issues and acknowledged fixing them will mean things get worse before they get better, I'm willing to trust him for the foreseeable future. I want long term fixes at United, not short term sticking plasters

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Gary Neville made the point that Ole got sacked post the Watford 4-1 loss.

This was the line up that day...

Clearly an abject performance, but no one can tell me that what Amorim has been left, especially last night, is better than what Ole had.

And that is despite 650mil being spent. It is a absolutely criminal what has happened at this club over the past few years.

Donny 7.9

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Lindelöf, Maguire, Rashford, Bruno and Shaw are still here.

Matic that season was comparable to Casemiro. De Gea was awful by then.

Maz is a much better player than AWB.

So… Sancho and can’t run Ronaldo make it so much better?

Personally I think our best current back 4 is much better:

Shaw, De Ligt, Yoro, Maz

Keeper is better, striker worse. Wingers and CM the same. Bruno the same.

Bruno’s not the same though. He’s nowhere near the player he was back then. Rashford’s the same. And having a fit Luke Shaw would be a massive help for Amorim right now, so why are you ignoring his unavailability? Likewise saying “keeper better” after watching Onana’s performances under Amorim is hilarious.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Bruno’s not the same though. He’s nowhere near the player he was back then. Rashford’s the same. And having a fit Luke Shaw would be a massive help for Amorim right now, so why are you ignoring his unavailability?

He was barely available for ETH either was he? It wasn’t exactly like ETH inherited a top left back who was constantly available?

Bruno’s not the same? Wasn’t everyone absolutely slating him by then already?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He was barely available for ETH either was he? It wasn’t exactly like ETH inherited a top left back who was constantly available?

Bruno’s not the same? Wasn’t everyone absolutely slating him by then already?

Shaw played in that fecking match vs Watford. Which is the point! Shaw missed a lot of games for ETH but he played a lot. Amorim has basically had to completely do without him.

Bruno is 30 now and seems to be really struggling, mentally, with the pressure or being captain of a failing team. I don’t think it’s remotely controversial to think he was better a few years ago.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

This just seems like an extremely ignorant and small minded perspective, to be honest.

Yours seems incredibly naive.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Shaw played in that fecking match vs Watford. Which is the point!

No, the point was ETH was left a better squad.

 

[DJ_21]

Surely he knows we was playing best with an attacking wing back like Amad. Using 2 natural full backs isn’t working. Put Amad back on the RWB. He offers us more of a threat from that position.

 

[Doracle]

Bruno’s not the same though. He’s nowhere near the player he was back then. Rashford’s the same. And having a fit Luke Shaw would be a massive help for Amorim right now, so why are you ignoring his unavailability? Likewise saying “keeper better” after watching Onana’s performances under Amorim is hilarious.

Tend to agree with this (although Rashford was worse in 21/22 than he has been this season). Also worth noting that we had Cavani, Greenwood and Martial as options beyond that first 11 as well (obviously one of those no longer being available was outside the club’s control).

I think the defence is stronger now and the midfield no worse but the attack is far weaker. For all the money we’ve spent though, it’s hard to fathom how we aren’t undeniably stronger though!

 

[NoneHeavier]

I'll stick to him with no objections until next season! Stating that, I expect he'll have hell in the next few matches, especially Liverpool incoming, and lucky us - Arsenal is in FA cup, otherwise our lose streak would continue.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

Surely he knows we was playing best with an attacking wing back like Amad. Using 2 natural full backs isn’t working. Put Amad back on the RWB. He offers us more of a threat from that position.

I agree. I can only assume the long term plan for Amad is behind the striker and Amorim regards him learning that role is more important than having an attacking wing back right now.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

No, the point was ETH was left a better squad.

Ok, then I misunderstood. ETH was definitely able to pick a better team in that fixture but he had a lot of headaches to sort out in his squad too. Unlike Amorim though, we didn’t have to listen to you saying he was a failing manager before he’d signed a single player.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

It’s funny because the Caf was insistent that he move Amad to the no10 position and play Mazraoui at WB. Not saying you held this view, but many did and are now complaining. The sooner everybody realises that there’s no way of making this team function, the better. 343/4231/433 it doesn’t matter, all can and will be exploited. I never thought I’d say this but we need Mount back pronto, we miss his work rate and pressing ability. Bruno has to be in every game. Amad at WB maybe, or even try Antony. Garnacho looks like he’s won a competition to play every time he comes in so he’s not an option.

It’s a staggering mess right now. We’re heading for a relegation scrap, there’s no two ways about it.

We are, for me relegation is a real possibility, we’ve not just been playing badly for 10 or 15 games, we’ve been poor for years and moments have covered over the cracks. Can only hope Southampton, Leicester and Ipswich carry on picking up limited points, but expect one of Ipswich or Leicester to make a run at staying up. I fully expect both Palace and Wolves to finish above us at this rate. Everton I’m not so sure.

Mount or a similar player is essential to this team of lazy and/or old players. We have zero athleticism or stamina in the middles of the park, only Ugarte and sometimes Mainoo can hold their own there.

 

[united for life]

Can anyone point me to the positives of Amorim's appointment since he came in?
He has strong english and excellent media management but aside from that I'm struggling.

- On a historic run of poor form.
- Managed to dry up what was already a pretty barren attack
- Demoted our highly sought after set piece coach, replaced him with his mate and served a disasterclass since
- Publicly denigrated the ability and quality of the squad
- Alienated our key attacking players this season (I know some of you like the Rashford treatment)
- Set/allowed expectations that Utd would lose games

With Amorim, we did not have the new managers’ winning form. Which is good for a change. Let things be clear, let players who are underperforming for lazy be identified. I did not expect him to come in, with his new philosophy, and have an immediate impact on the team. Especially with this squad. He needs to make his signings, the signings that would fit his formation. That’s a risk I know, but he has to be given this chance.

Our squad is terrible. Average at best. Players like Zirkzee, Casemiro, Erisken, Lindelof, Antony, are not good enough (or no longer good enough for some).

Some positives, having the right awareness to say that a storm is coming. He went into trainings and saw the mess. He said bad days are coming. He sad that he needs time and we all need to be realistic. For me, this is a good sign.

He also froze marcus out. Enough with marcus really. Poor on the pitch and terrible attitude. I like the way he handled him. Says the right things in the media while showing authority.

Few positives so far (maybe the win against city ), but this needs time and the process will be ugly. I hope he can turn things around for the club

 

[DJ_21]

I actually feel for him if he’s sacked. Left his current team undefeated all season. Was on track to win another league title. Maybe we should be blaming Berrada? Would we be in a much better position now if we stuck with RVN till end of the season and then let Amorim have a pre season and a summer window like he wanted to do.

 

[343]

The Newcastle game is the only one under Amorim where we were outplayed - especially in the first 20 minutes which is genuinely the worst I have seen us play. Every other game we have lost recently has had mitigating factors like individual errors and not taking our chances.

It was always going to happen. If you play well and don't win, then you lose confidence and start playing badly.

I want Amorim to stick to his ideas, but you cannot ignore what losses does to a team. Nobody expects results against Liverpool and Arsenal now, but the league games against Southampton, Brighton, Fulham and Crystal Palace will be crucial. If results are not achieved in those games (at least 3 wins to take us to 31 points), then he will need to adopt a pragmatic approach for the remainder of the season to save his job. He will always have the summer to implement his ideas.

Let us not forget that one of the things that made SAF successful was his adaptability, season by season but also game by game. Almost every other successful manager out there has been similar (except Pep perhaps).

 

[Oldyella]

Gary Neville made the point that Ole got sacked post the Watford 4-1 loss.

This was the line up that day...

Clearly an abject performance, but no one can tell me that what Amorim has been left, especially last night, is better than what Ole had.

And that is despite 650mil being spent. It is a absolutely criminal what has happened at this club over the past few years.

If this was in the corporate world I'm sure people would be investigating the co for money laundering! We have wasted an absolute fortune only to leave us with a weaker team.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The Newcastle game is the only one under Amorim where we were outplayed - especially in the first 20 minutes which is genuinely the worst I have seen us play. Every other game we have lost recently has had mitigating factors like individual errors and not taking our chances.

It was always going to happen. If you play well and don't win, then you lose confidence and start playing badly.

I want Amorim to stick to his ideas, but you cannot ignore what losses does to a team. Nobody expects results against Liverpool and Arsenal now, but the league games against Southampton, Brighton, Fulham and Crystal Palace will be crucial. If results are not achieved in those games (at least 3 wins to take us to 31 points), then he will need to adopt a pragmatic approach for the remainder of the season to save his job. He will always have the summer to implement his ideas.

Let us not forget that one of the things that made SAF successful was his adaptability, season by season but also game by game.

Good post. And let’s not the pre-Newcastle hammer blow of having his best attacking and defensive midfielders both banned from the game. His first attempt at compensating for their absence didn’t work but he fixed that after 30 minutes and we more or less matched them for the best of the game.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

Looking at the Ole team against Watford and the only one I wish we had available right now is Shaw, which is kind of ironic.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

With Amorim, we did not have the new managers’ winning form. Which is good for a change. Let things be clear, let players who are underperforming for lazy be identified. I did not expect him to come in, with his new philosophy, and have an immediate impact on the team. Especially with this squad. He needs to make his signings, the signings that would fit his formation. That’s a risk I know, but he has to be given this chance.

Our squad is terrible. Average at best. Players like Zirkzee, Casemiro, Erisken, Lindelof, Antony, are not good enough (or no longer good enough for some).

Some positives, having the right awareness to say that a storm is coming. He went into trainings and saw the mess. He said bad days are coming. He sad that he needs time and we all need to be realistic. For me, this is a good sign.

He also froze marcus out. Enough with marcus really. Poor on the pitch and terrible attitude. I like the way he handled him. Says the right things in the media while showing authority.

Few positives so far (maybe the win against city ), but this needs time and the process will be ugly. I hope he can turn things around for the club

This isn’t a storm, it’s an end of world apocalypse!

But you’re right our squad is full of both poor players and mentally weak ones.

 

[jem]

You realise that I’m all in favour of us selling him if that’s what the club thinks is best right? I’m just quite keen for that to be the best deal we can get - not a desperate fire sale when we make it look like clubs are doing us a favour taking him off our hands.

Well I’m 100% with you on that

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Looking at the Ole team against Watford and the only one I wish we had available right now is Shaw, which is kind of ironic.

Ditto.

Onana / De Gea

AWB / Maz. Maguire / De Ligt. Lindelöf /Yoro. Shaw / Dalot

New back 5 looks stronger.

McTom / Ugarte. Matic / Cas

Meh….

Sancho / Amad. Rashford / Rashford

Ronaldo / Højlund

Meh….​

 

[RDCR07]

Holjund and Zirkzee also need replacing so that's 2 strikers as does Rashford so 1+ left winger and don't we need 2 left backs since both Shaw and Malacia will be likely leaving? That's like 8 players

And? Will it be any different if Amorim wasnt in charge? No matter who the manager is these players need replacing dont they?

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I'm not even sure it matters all that much. Confidence is shot and unless we can conjure up some big time spirit fighting our nemesis, we'll go under

Buddy, we've lost this game before the starting whistle. The only question is will any of our players emerge at full time with even a shred of dignity?

 

[Bastian]

I think the most interesting thing he's said is when he said "this club needs a shock" yesterday. It's echoing what Rangnick said.

But if there is any marriage to the short-term, whether in terms of dignity or finances (qualifying for Europe, etc.), then it's hopeless. The squad is well aware of the club briefing against them, ex-players like Neville sticking the boot in, the manager talking about them having no confidence and the stadium and players panicking when we concede a corner. Amorim needs serious support now both in terms of the season being a relatively free hit, and shifting out players that need getting out the door, trying to get a couple of players on loan and buying a left wing-back.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

IMO smarter coach would have recognized it right away that you can’t cook with these players in any system and you will need an overhaul. What he should be doing is playing to their strengths in the short term to increase their sale valuation in the jan / summer in order to raise funds for your own vision given the tight financial situation we’re in. The current approach helps no one as in the market we will be taken advantage of whilst knowing that current lot (whole squad basically) is not part of your long term plans as such there’s little sense in trying to brute force your system into their heads since they simply won’t be here in a few months.

THIS.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Would we be in a much better position now if we stuck with RVN till end of the season and then let Amorim have a pre season and a summer window like he wanted to do.

Maybe - maybe in terms of short-term results.

(And maybe Ruud actually is a genius, who knows.)

The fundamental problems would still be there, though. Better to have a competent man (which we must assume Amorim is) identify and begin to deal with those problems right away - in other words: treat this season as a write-off in terms of results.

In my mind what you propose would just give the competent/right man less time to get things straight - which can't possibly be a good thing (even if it means we finish 15th rather than...what? 8th again? Something like that).

Short and sweet: No, it's better that a permanent coach (who we hope will move us in the right direction) starts his work well before Christmas (rather than hiring an interim for the rest of the season).

 

[kolli]

Senior Players Pre-Match
I hope Amorim saw this and puts them in their place…

 

[meninred]

I have to first say as football spectator I am not a big fan of the back three formation. It is rarely used by most coaches. even pep tried at Barca and then abandon it. It needs specific skill set for the players and is the worst to try it on this current squad because it is worse than the back four. I cannot understand why Amorim insists or adamant on it . I always wonder what he said during the interview. Should not the football men of INEOS understand or anticipate that it might not work and discuss with him if he can be flexible with it before hiring him?

The formation has a lot of drawbacks. To mention a few

It phases out traditional wing players out of the line up

the full backs should defend and attack. Players suited for this are not that many

to mention some of the very few are Roberto Carlos and Cafu at the highest level

or Ashley Young and Valencia at Manutd.

The three central defenders should be fast and cover a lot of ground as they can be faced with more 1 vs 1 situation. For Manutd it can work if we had defenders like Ferdinand , Vidic and Stam at the same time.

The midfield might need two pivots (number 6) and two numbers 8s who can also be number 10s when necessary.

True Amorim is not responsible for the current squad but is responsible for the formation, lineups, reading of the game /direction and proper substitutions.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Just take a month off football if you are feeling bad atm. We have had 4 training sessions only, we will have more of them now as the fixture congestion gets better and we got to do some chill on-the-pitch work within the tactical nuances.

If he's had only 4 training sessions in the 11 games he's been in charge, he should have cancelled a few of their days off, brought in a U10 coach to teach how to control a football, and we'd be better off.

 

[Massimo Taibi]

Yeah and I don't want him to submit to the pragmatism of the past. You have to ask yourself what is the actual first step to getting back to the top. It certainly isn't bringing in another manager who'll revert to Ole ball and have a ceiling of top 4 as we've tried that.

Therefore, the only realistic alternatives I can see are a) choose a system and go all-in now (my favoured path or b) slowly build back up by getting, say, a midtable manager now (e.g. Potter) and then the next manager in maybe 2 years time to take us on.

Neither is risk free but I still maintain a) is what we should do.

The alternative isn't being identical to Ole, it's as fanciful as those who say "yeah, but look at Klopp" as some sort of defence of the man.

It's fine that he has a preferred system and formation. He's now had twelve games in charge, in which he's attempted to implement this system. It is abundantly clear that the playing squad is not suited in any way whatsoever to his preferred system and the question now is, is it really worth continuing this experiment for another five months when it is abundantly clear already? Do people genuinely think Martinez is going to wake up one day six inches taller and with any quality required to be even a remotely decent centre half for a top half Premier League club or that Casemiro is going to suddenly regain his legs from ten years ago? There is no discernable signs that this is working in any way at all. Barring Amad, nobody has shown any signs of improvement since his arrival and nobody has shown any sense of comfort within the system. Do we double down for five months in the hope that this suddenly clicks? Having a preferred style and formation is lovely but it hasn't produced the results and there are no signs of a plan b for when we inevitably concede. Alarm bells are deafening with this. He has no idea how to change or influence a game. You can point at "yeah, but he doesn't have the players to have a plan b" but Amorim doesn't have the players for plan a yet he's hyperfixated on it and his blind arrogance that it will work and is forcing this group through playing such a way. He's not changing games, he's not reactive and certainly isn't proactive in an attempt at winning games. I genuinely don't think he has a clue how to win games. Admissions that we may get relegated, however realistic or not, should be a sackable offence in itself. I think it says a lot about the relationship between players and management and yes, I don't like this playing group, their effort or their performances but its certainly not a good sign and those alarm bells are there.

The first step when going into a new club mid-season is certainly picking up morale and results, the two go hand in hand. If anything he's part of the many reasons that morale is so low and subsequently, the results his side are getting are also influencing the morale. If I'm honest, the Southampton game is win or bust for Amorim. We get pumped at the weekend by Liverpool and go down with another whimper against Arsenal and it's all on the Southampton game. Anything but a win and he has to go. I don't think he's shown anything at all, I could stop that there as a sentence, to suggest he deserves time or finances to make changes when he's as tactically inept as this.

 

[FrankDrebin]

IMO smarter coach would have recognized it right away that you can’t cook with these players in any system and you will need an overhaul. What he should be doing is playing to their strengths in the short term to increase their sale valuation in the jan / summer in order to raise funds for your own vision given the tight financial situation we’re in. The current approach helps no one as in the market we will be taken advantage of whilst knowing that current lot (whole squad basically) is not part of your long term plans as such there’s little sense in trying to brute force your system into their heads since they simply won’t be here in a few months.

I would agree with this.