Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

crossy1686 said:
Despite city hiring his recruitment mate and then doing a public statement after we signed him to say that they definitely were never interested in signing him at any point whatsoever? Oh yeah, and the fact that Liverpool tried to appoint him after Klopp but he turned them down, and Chelsea speaking to him, but apart from all that nobody wanted him.
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Yeah, gonna need a source on that one. I call bs.

As for Chelsea speaking to him, they spoke and decided not to hire him considering he's not their manager right now? West Ham also 'spoke' to him, but didn't hire him.

Also, what is a recruitment mate and how does it mean that City wanted to hire him?
 
I am not saying Amorim is a bad manager and I really do believe if there was anyone then he is the one who would take us to premier league victory again. Saying that, I do not believe that the club has created an atmosphere of success for him at all, and that's mainly on recruitment of course. I think 75% of our squad is mid Championship level, but even then at times since Amorims comes in we've looked really good so it's odd.

I said before, but we need to start behaving and playing like a mid-table club to fix bigger issues before it allows us to be successful again. We have had the worst banter era of any club and 100 years later whenever a game approaches the 90 min mark I still hear 'ferries time'. That was a decade ago. Forget it. Let the past go.

We should have really gotten in a manager notorious for grafting results, but truth be told? Even then our players are so physically weak that its a joke. We have messed up very badly here and we need new players fast. Even if they're not the best, just get us to permanent mid-table status right now that's it. Pace, Strengt, and desire is really needed here.
 
He needs at least two signings in January to go straight into the starting 11. Probably a left wing back and striker.

Sell players if needed. Without that, there could be trouble.
 
If this type of form persists I don’t see how he can last in the job. The priority now is to steady the ship and actually get back to wining matches at home as a minimum.

The players have been gash but that’s always been the case. However they shouldn’t be THIS bad. Some of the blame still has to go to the manager for that.
 
DevilRed said:
If this type of form persists I don’t see how he can last in the job. The priority now is to steady the ship and actually get back to wining matches at home as a minimum.

The players have been gash but that’s always been the case. However they shouldn’t be THIS bad. Some of the blame still has to go to the manager for that.
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Exactly, the squad is not good, but let's be honest it's not 14th in the league bad. Last season we finished 8th, 2 years ago, with more or less the same players we finished 3rd. The gap is immense.
Amorim keeps saying he will not change the approach or the tactics, a manager adaptability is one of the main qualities he should have, if he cannot adapt to the squad, to the league, it will be impossible for him to get decent results, nevermind being successful. Right now, he is underachieving, that is the reality.
 
We knew it would be painful, a lot of people have shown on here they don't have the stomach for it. They really thought he'd come in and turn these idiots into world beaters :lol:

We'd probably look better if he stuck with playing the Ten Hag way, but thats taking us nowhere, how people still don't get that I don't know.

I fully back the bloke.
 
I dont care what 'system' we play, I dont care which 11 start, I dont care who the manager is, but I NEVER want to see us get relegated, that would be unthinkable
 
The first thing he must do is drop Martinez. This is a midget CB that refused to jump to defend a cross. He was also not bothered to mark players in his own 6 yards box.

Stop picking fight with Garnacho and Rashford for now. We were better when these 2 were playing regularly. Offload them in summer all you want but for now focus on results. Integrate these 2 back to the team.

Never play Malacia and Zirkzee again. Sell or send them on loan in Jan window. Sell Case and Erikson and get loan signings in Jan for midfield cover.

Play Antony on RWB, he seems to click better with Amad.
 
Reflecting on last night, although I think he is a very good manager, his inexperience might be a problem.

On a human level I feel for Zirkzee because he destroyed him there. A more experienced manager would have just subbed Erikson or Casemiro (lets be honest, breaking them up was what the sub was about), they would have been able to take the atmosphere more.
 
This in an unpopular opinion but I said it in the first half hour of Monday's travesty that Amorim is taking us down if he persists with his inflexible tactics. There is not one way to win football matches, anyone who has watched the game for any length of time can see this otherwise everyone would be five at the back. We must divorce Amorim's likability with his ability as a coach. Otherwise we fans will be as blinkered as the former Sporting boss.

So far he's looking like the Liz Truss of football management. Limited vision, unbalanced thinking and not recognising the situation he's in with the players he's inherited.

Confidence is draining, points have been lost without being contested and consequently the league position is dropping like a stone. It's time to swallow the pride, play a simple system and keep playing his best 11 week after week. He needs to be prepared to do this and then, with good recruitment over a couple of windows, he can maybe shift to his philosophy.

To not do this is a recipe for relegation.

Meanwhile I won't be joining the Amorim's Army songs. He's not the Messiah..etc
 
astracrazy said:
Reflecting on last night, although I think he is a very good manager, his inexperience might be a problem.

On a human level I feel for Zirkzee because he destroyed him there. A more experienced manager would have subbed Erikson or Casemiro (who lets be honest, breaking them up was what the sub was about).
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Felt bad for Zirkzee and this is sadly RA mistake. He shouldn't even play. We are praising our academy and it's right time to try some youngsters. Gore should play and it wouldn't be worse than this.
 
I like his ideas but he needs to realise that this is now very much a results game till the end of the season. If he wants to be here long enough to ensure his ideas actually come to fruition, he needs to start beating the teams he should be beating and make sure the club does not get involved in a relegation battle. I do not care how good they are, Manchester United, no matter how bad, should be getting results against Forest and Newcastle at home and Wolves. Period.

He can project all the calmness and assurance he likes to the media but if the club manages to slip into a relegation battle, he will be fired.
 
Judas said:
We knew it would be painful, a lot of people have shown on here they don't have the stomach for it. They really thought he'd come in and turn these idiots into world beaters :lol:

We'd probably look better if he stuck with playing the Ten Hag way, but thats taking us nowhere, how people still don't get that I don't know.

I fully back the bloke.
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The 'it will be painful' narrative is the perfect response for bad management. Amorim is not properly managing this group of players. He refuses to adapt his philosophy and has become the new Van Gaal. It's as obvious as the noses on our faces that he has to alter course otherwise it is an exercise in self harm.
 
sixdwarf said:
This in an unpopular opinion but I said it in the first half hour of Monday's travesty that Amorim is taking us down if he persists with his inflexible tactics. There is not one way to win football matches, anyone who has watched the game for any length of time can see this otherwise everyone would be five at the back. We must divorce Amorim's likability with his ability as a coach. Otherwise we fans will be as blinkered as the former Sporting boss.

So far he's looking like the Liz Truss of football management. Limited vision, unbalanced thinking and not recognising the situation he's in with the players he's inherited.

Confidence is draining, points have been lost without being contested and consequently the league position is dropping like a stone. It's time to swallow the pride, play a simple system and keep playing his best 11 week after week. He needs to be prepared to do this and then, with good recruitment over a couple of windows, he can maybe shift to his philosophy.

To not do this is a recipe for relegation.

Meanwhile I won't be joining the Amorim's Army songs. He's not the Messiah..etc
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Systems are irrelevant when you have a midfield two like we did last night. Or you have a 5ft 7, slow CB.

The frustrating this is as fans we know this. We've watched these players in various systems and formations and the outcome is always the same. We have years of working examples, to know which individuals will produce the same dross no matter how we set up.

Yet fans are still shouting about systems. I don’t get it.

Are only hope is that Ugarte, Mainoo, De Ligt, Mazraoui and Amad stay fit all season. If they don't, if Ugarte was to get a bad injury, it's trouble.

If we can sell to buy in Jan that also would be massive.
 
waza7111 said:
He needs at least two signings in January to go straight into the starting 11. Probably a left wing back and striker.

Sell players if needed. Without that, there could be trouble.
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A left wing back? That would be a terrible decision. Luke Shaw is a world class left back. A good manager looks at a squad’s top players and build forth on them. Amorim is clueless. He is another manager who makes his players worse by making them feel inadequate.
 
sixdwarf said:
The 'it will be painful' narrative is the perfect response for bad management. Amorim is not properly managing this group of players. He refuses to adapt his philosophy and has become the new Van Gaal. It's as obvious as the noses on our faces that he has to alter course otherwise it is an exercise in self harm.
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LvG was constantly changing his formation. One of the big criticisms of him was making such a change after the defeat to Leicester.

It's an example of how hard it is as a manager when you're losing games. No matter what you do you'll get criticised.

Amorim hasn't abandoned his style after a few weeks. Criticised for it.

LvG did abandon his style after a few weeks. Criticised for it.
 
Marwood said:
LvG was constantly changing his formation. One of the big criticisms of him was making such a change after the defeat to Leicester.

It's an example of how hard it is as a manager when you're losing games. No matter what you do you'll get criticised.

Amorim hasn't abandoned his style after a few weeks. Criticised for it.

LvG did abandon his style after a few weeks. Criticised for it.
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Morale of the story is the media love to criticize Utd as it gets attention.
Liverpool are flying at the moment but do they get more attention than us not going well....not on your life!
 
LDUred said:
If Amorim can't win games he won't be backed, simple as. The club won't take the risk of arming a manager with a transfer kity who's losing so many games. That is not how business works and it's not how football generally works.

With the players he has at his disposal, he should at the very least be able to stabilise the club and finish in a respectable position. With the results we're getting, you'd think he'd taken over a club rock bottom. It's clearly below expectations.

Part of being a manager is learning the strengths and weaknesses of your players and figuring out how to get the best out of what you have. If he can't do that, we're fecked.
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But this isn't on either? They can't bring a manager between two transfer windows and not let him buy a single player and then sack him. No manager will want to come here then.

For Amorim himself he needs to ditch his 343 till he has his team. Arteta quickly realised at Arsenal the team were too poor for keep the ball football, and his football therefore was dire for 2 years but it kept him the job, got an FA cup and then a 5th spot. When he got his players in we play possession football now.

Its what Amorim needs to do, and adapt. This bit you're right on but I don't agree him being sacked.
 
Marwood said:
Systems are irrelevant when you have a midfield two like we did last night. Or you have a 5ft 7, slow CB.

The frustrating this is as fans we know this. We've watched these players in various systems and formations and the outcome is always the same. We have years of working examples, to know which individuals will produce the same dross no matter how we set up.

Yet fans are still shouting about systems. I don’t get it.

Are only hope is that Ugarte, Mainoo, De Ligt, Mazraoui and Amad stay fit all season. If they don't, if Ugarte was to get a bad injury, it's trouble.

If we can sell to buy in Jan that also would be massive.
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Because these same players have never been this bad, or played this poorly until this system was implemented.
 
Champ said:
Because these same players have never been this bad, or played this poorly until this system was implemented.
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Course they have. You've never seen Casemiro or Eriksen as bad as they were last night? Not possible.

And what's a system got to do with with Martinez getting out jumped or simply being nowhere near his man when a cross comes in.
 
#07 said:
Exactly this.

Some would say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Amorim may be able to realise his vision if can survive a few transfer windows. But there's no way United can flirt with relegation and he survives. Don't care what any journalist says.

The reality is Sir Jim bought into United to give himself a legacy of restoring it to glory, not to see the club fighting against the drop.

If we get stuffed by Liverpool playing Amorim's system he will be in the danger zone, if he isn't already.
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This is all well and good in FM when you can sell 7-8 players and sign another 7-8 players in one window. The reality is that a decent number of this squad will still be here in 2-3 years and so will need to adapt to the manager’s way, whilst he builds ‘his’ squad.

Klopp did this with Liverpool, they played his way and conceded a lot because they didn’t have the defence to handle it…until they did.

Unfortunately Liverpool had a larger core contingent who had the right attitude, just not the quality needed. We lack both.
 
gaffs said:
I think this is all very valid. I think Amorim has perhaps realised over the past month how limited these player really are.

We fans know, they never really played anything that looked like a "system" under Ten Hag. Did we score many goals because we built up in a particular way that allowed us to find time or space to create and score goals? Did we even show any repeatable patterns of play, like other teams?

No, most of our goals and wins over the last year or so came from "individual moments". There is a reason we only scored 58 goals both of the last two PL seasons.

We have played "ad hoc" football for some time and relied on that fact that we have certain players that can create moments. That only gets you so far.

Forget that "system". It is largly ireleventt becuase the 433 got the last manager sacked and we were 13th then, so it is clearly more than that. You saw tonight that some of these players cant even do the basics, so how relevant is it what system they play in when your forward cant hold the ball up or your midfield has no legs?

Unless you want managers to let them keep playing "ad hoc" football and keep finishing midtable, then you have to allow someone time to come in and enact a system. And its not easy when you come in November and have 11 games in 50 days and you have a squad so bad that you would struggle to name anyone you would be confident in building a team around.

Shit, i mean, maybe beyond Mainoo because of his potential, Liverpool, City or Arsenal wouldn't want any United player. And i doubt Newcastle or Villa would either.

We are not getting relegated. We will get some players back soon like Bruno and Ugarte. I would much rather Amorim rip the band aid off this team and find out who has it in them to continue on the journey. Much better than limping on by being "pragmatic", only to finish 8th. Because where does that get us?
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What they, never played in a 4231 under ETH? Is that not a system?

I think the coach has to fit them in a system which suits the squads strengths
 
Marwood said:
Course they have. You've never seen Casemiro or Eriksen as bad as they were last night? Not possible.

And what's a system got to do with with Martinez getting out jumped or simply being nowhere near his man when a cross comes in.
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No, we haven't seen a run of results this bad for decades.
Individual errors are creeping in because players are playing in a formation they don't understand and are not comfortable in.
 
sixdwarf said:
This in an unpopular opinion but I said it in the first half hour of Monday's travesty that Amorim is taking us down if he persists with his inflexible tactics. There is not one way to win football matches, anyone who has watched the game for any length of time can see this otherwise everyone would be five at the back. We must divorce Amorim's likability with his ability as a coach. Otherwise we fans will be as blinkered as the former Sporting boss.

So far he's looking like the Liz Truss of football management. Limited vision, unbalanced thinking and not recognising the situation he's in with the players he's inherited.

Confidence is draining, points have been lost without being contested and consequently the league position is dropping like a stone. It's time to swallow the pride, play a simple system and keep playing his best 11 week after week. He needs to be prepared to do this and then, with good recruitment over a couple of windows, he can maybe shift to his philosophy.

To not do this is a recipe for relegation.

Meanwhile I won't be joining the Amorim's Army songs. He's not the Messiah..etc
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This is what Ten Hag was meant to do, it never happens as it's expected you progress as you've been working on it for years. When in reality you've just been fighting fires rather than actually building your system up.

I'll take any league finish this year as long as we don't get relegated, it's next season that I'll be judging him on and he'll need a fast start if this is the level we're expected to endure this season.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
This is all well and good in FM when you can sell 7-8 players and sign another 7-8 players in one window. The reality is that a decent number of this squad will still be here in 2-3 years and so will need to adapt to the manager’s way, whilst he builds ‘his’ squad.

Klopp did this with Liverpool, they played his way and conceded a lot because they didn’t have the defence to handle it…until they did.

Unfortunately Liverpool had a larger core contingent who had the right attitude, just not the quality needed. We lack both.
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Klopp adapted the system though and you could see his principles. There's a difference between a system and principles
 
DannyCAFC said:
Where does this '4 training sessions' thing stem from and why does he persist in saying this? He's had 11 games...
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Because we’ve been playing every 3 days for the last however many weeks. Training sessions in this period are usually just ‘maintenance’ sessions to monitor fitness.
 
I'd pack the middle with runners and have actual wingers in the wing back role. To counter their poorer defensive side you stick players who can run at RCB/LCB and in CM. I'd happily have Maguire in the CB position as he is a better passer and defender overall than De Ligt.

Collyer and Ugarte will run all day and can move the ball to Mainoo/Bruno to find the wingers/CF in quick transitions. The wingers will give you natural width and more attacking threat to push the opposition back. Something like the below.

Onana
Yoro De Ligt/Maguire Maz
Amad Ugarte Mainoo Collyer Garnacho
Bruno
Hojlund​
 
The match report in the Telegraph this morning really highlights the foolishness of the team selection last night.
- in midfield we put two old and slow players up against the dynamic trio of Guimares, Tonali and Joelinton
- in defence we have three centre-backs marking one striker, Isak

The outcome was inevitable. I don't think it's too harsh to use the word 'stupid' about last night's team selection.
 
Champ said:
No, we haven't seen a run of results this bad for decades.
Individual errors are creeping in because players are playing in a formation they don't understand and are not comfortable in.
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No you said these players have never been this bad.

I'm asking have you never seen these performances from these players before?

You've never seen Casmeiro or Eriksen that bad. Is that the worst you've ever seen Hojlund Or Maguire or Dalot?

Results are bad and getting worse but that was always possible short term. We were trending downwards under ETH, that's why he was sacked. It's just carried on.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
This is all well and good in FM when you can sell 7-8 players and sign another 7-8 players in one window. The reality is that a decent number of this squad will still be here in 2-3 years and so will need to adapt to the manager’s way, whilst he builds ‘his’ squad.
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Chelsea and Arsenal have both shown it's possible to reboot a squad over one summer. Besides, we don't need to sell 7-8 players (as there are five contracts expiring next summer anyway), we just need to sell 3-4, which is perfectly doable.

Maguire, Lindelof and Eriksen are all expiring next summer, so that's circa £26m/year off the wage bill already.

Then get rid of Rashford, Casemiro, Dalot, Garnacho and Shaw and that's circa £120m in sales and £52m/year salary brought in.

That allows up to circa £500m purchases amortised over 5 year contracts and £1.5m/week salaries available. That easily translates into circa 7 x £70m players on £200k/week each. That would absolutely transform this squad.
 
MO_Football92 said:
Klopp adapted the system though and you could see his principles. There's a difference between a system and principles
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Not really, he went for a workhorse midfield 3 (firstly was Can, Lucas Leiva and Lallana) with an intense front 3.

His first seasons many freak results but he kept with it and brought in players to fit that. Out went Coutinho, Clyne, Moreno and Mignolet and he brought in Mane, Salah, Van Dijk and Allison.
 
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